David_itl
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:36 am

They've criticised the EU ruling regarding slot provision for the BA/BD domestic routes by excluding MAN from the slot divestiture and is planning a challenge to the ruling. Virgin Trains are doing 45 daily services between Piccadilly and Euston so the Commission said there was competition but come November, there'll be no Virgin trains. Can't see the business case for VS doing a MAN route given the limited choice of VS services at LHR unless they are gonig to get a raft of airlines to codeshare wiith them. Story in the Manchester Evening News
 
BestWestern
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:15 am

Sour grapes makes bad Whine.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
APYu
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:19 am

From November there will still be trains - just run by another company - so still competition.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
Bongodog1964
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:20 am

What a load of old waffle.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the reason that the EU didn't include MAN - LHR was that BD had already ceased operations on this route before IAG entered an agreement to purchase BD. On that basis BA gained a monopoly by default, not through a decision to buy out or price out the competition.

As to VS "seeking MAN-LHR rights" SRB makes it sound like the old days when you needed Government permission to operate a route, the answer is simple, buy some LHR slots, buy a short haul plane and he's free to lose as much money as he wants to !!

A few people might be listening to his rhetoric, but I doubt anyone in Whitehall is taking him seriously, especially after his outbursts after losing the West Coast Mainline franchise last week.
 
ThomasCook
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:25 am

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but

bmi never ceased MAN-LHR and is technically still operating these services today albeit under BA*** flight numbers. In 2011, BD reduced service to 4 x daily.

Why be against it? It could result in more choice for us and could make for an interesting change.

ThomasCook
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APYu
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:58 am

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 4):
Why be against it? It could result in more choice for us and could make for an interesting change

It would operate with such poor frequency for many users of the route it wouldnt really provide much additional choice if Virgin were to launch some sort of service.
IMHO the only company who might be big enough and agile enough to make such work would be Flybe who would need to launch 6+ round trips a day and be in bed with the right people at LHR to provide the essential connecting traffic.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
virgincrew
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:58 am

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 4):
Why be against it? It could result in more choice for us and could make for an interesting change.

People on A.net are against it, because it's Virgin Atlantic & Sir Richard Branson.

I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow alot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

I agree though, he can't really use the Virgin Trains argument on the basis that there will be no services, because there will still be train services between Manchester, the West Coast and London, just not Virgin Trains. I think the argument should be that Virgin no longer have a presence of any kind in the West Coast in relation to connecting passengers to London Airports. Which will mean that BA will have the monopoly on the Manchester - London route.

Bottom line in this case, is to get more consumer choice on the MAN - LON routes.

I would still love to see some kind of Virgin Regional Airline, although for the success of it I think VS should attempt some codeshare or get another operator to operate the route but under a Virgin brand - at least until it proves successful or not.



[Edited 2012-08-20 03:12:52]

[Edited 2012-08-20 03:15:11]
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
ThomasCook
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:18 am

Quoting APYu (Reply 5):
It would operate with such poor frequency for many users of the route it wouldnt really provide much additional choice if Virgin were to launch some sort of service.

Well that really does remain to be seen, and likely, nothing will materialise from it but I am glad he is speaking out about the gross loss of competition on several routes at LHR due to the BA/BD merger. Perhaps if Virgin cannot retain the WCML as it seems unlikely in any event to be able to do now, they will concentrate on building a shorthaul network. Perhaps they can fill the UK domestic and European Star Alliance gap left void by bmi's takeover. I know a lot of you say VS will not join an alliance but as recently as a couple of months ago, the same would be said for Emirates or Qatar, now that is looking increasingly likely from at least one of them.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
but people are against anything VS & SRB do

I don't understand this rationale on a.net. I am not the greatest VS fan but I admire that Branson speaks out when he's not happy even if many say he is 'spitting his dummy out'. Good on him for complaining rather then just rolling over and taking it...after all, that won't get you anywhere in the world nevermind, in business.
A380 Crew
 
MAN2SIN2BKK
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:26 am

Is there anything except slot availability that would stop VS offering an "international" service so they cleared immigration etc at MAN and then feeding their flights at Terminal 3 without the need for terminal changes etc etc.

If I remember correctly didn't BA do this with their BA19/20 flight to HKG via Terminal 4
 
steve6666
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:46 am

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I think the argument should be that Virgin no longer have a presence of any kind in the West Coast in relation to connecting passengers to London Airports.

There is nothing stopping Branson agreeing a commercial co-operation with the First Group is there?

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
Bottom line in this case, is to get more consumer choice on the MAN - LON routes.

You could drive MAN - LHR in little over two hours (albeit not particularly legally). And I would struggle to find a sane person not connecting to another flight at LHR who would not take the train.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 7):
I don't understand this rationale on a.net. I am not the greatest VS fan but I admire that Branson speaks out when he's not happy even if many say he is 'spitting his dummy out'.

Probably because when he speaks out it is normally to whinge about something detrimental to his own personal self interest, very thinly disguised as protecting consumer rights and upholding competition. See National Lottery, 2000 (?). And normally, that something was a piece of cheese that had long since been moved.

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 7):
Good on him for complaining rather then just rolling over and taking it...after all, that won't get you anywhere in the world nevermind, in business.

God forbid he actually did something rather than just moan. All the moaning in the past 9 months about BA/Bmi and the West Coast Main Line doesn't appear to have got him anything either.
eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
 
BestWestern
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:52 am

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
People on A.net are against it, because it's Virgin Atlantic & Sir Richard Branson.

Branson is more than free to drop JFK services to start MAN if he wishes, but he won't because it makes no sense.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
think the argument should be that Virgin no longer have a presence of any kind in the West Coast in relation to connecting passengers to London Airports.

Do Virgin have a right to have a presence in the West Coast?

Yes, if they bought BMI.

Yes if they won the rail franchise.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow a lot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

When the virgin lovers realise he is blowing hot air, imagine how the rest of us feel. Its the media-whore-esque rubbish like that gets Virgin a bad name.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
scouseflyer
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:54 am

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 8):
Is there anything except slot availability that would stop VS offering an "international" service so they cleared immigration etc at MAN and then feeding their flights at Terminal 3 without the need for terminal changes etc etc.

If I remember correctly didn't BA do this with their BA19/20 flight to HKG via Terminal 4

I was wondering about international flights starting at MAN with a stop at LHR - to pick up extra passengers and it could also be used as a domestic flight - An A346 on a UK domestic flight 
 
rutankrd
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:03 am

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 8):

Is there anything except slot availability that would stop VS offering an "international" service so they cleared immigration etc at MAN and then feeding their flights at Terminal 3 without the need for terminal changes etc etc.

If I remember correctly didn't BA do this with their BA19/20 flight to HKG via Terminal 4

No it was a BA Manchester 732 that flew for Qantas from T2 MAN - to T4 LHR for a season before QF finally gave up to rely on the Shuttle codes shares.

The Hong Kong and Islamabad services with the 744 were tag on flights with no transfers offered airside at LHR.

Also I am not sure that current UK borders and government policies with would make an "international" dedicate feeder operation workable.
 
MAN2SIN2BKK
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 12):
No it was a BA Manchester 732 that flew for Qantas from T2 MAN - to T4 LHR for a season before QF finally gave up to rely on the Shuttle codes shares.

I am sure a connection to the late evening intercontinentals from terminal 4 was offered by the BA19/20 service, it was certainly offered in the BA timetable back then
 
ThomasCook
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 9):
Probably because when he speaks out it is normally to whinge about something detrimental to his own personal self interest, very thinly disguised as protecting consumer rights

Well of course he is raising these issues in the first instance as it is in his best interest, that is business! That is what businesses do! They are there to protect theirs and their shareholders best interests. Don't be under any illusion that any company puts its customers first! However a lot of his 'whinging' to protect and grow his businesses would also benefit the consumer. I for one am certainly am not looking forward to FirstGroup taking over the WCML and am happy for him to 'whinge' about it. His 'whinging' is much more vocal then mine.
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vv701
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:21 am

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
As to VS "seeking MAN-LHR rights" SRB makes it sound like the old days when you needed Government permission to operate a route, the answer is simple, buy some LHR slots, buy a short haul plane and he's free to lose as much money as he wants to !!

Correct. But Joe Public appears not to know that. And, apparently, neither does the Manchester Evening News.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow alot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

This is Branson's own fault.

When Camelot and not Virgin won the National Lottery franchise he protested how wrong the decision was. He threatened legal action against the British government.

When AA/BA/IB were granted ATI he protested how wrong the decision was. Again he threatened legal action against the competition authorities.

When Lufthansa Group accepted IAG's £172.5 million offer for BD and rejected Virgin's £50 million offer he protested how wrong the decision was. He threatened to seek a judicial review on the EC's decision to authorise the IAG bid claiming that they had reached a wrong decision.

When Virgin Trains lost its West Coast Line railway franchise to First Group he moaned that their bid for the franchise had cost Virgin- i.e. Branson - £14 million. He complained that the First Group bid was impossibly high. He said he would seek a judicial review against the Department of Transport's decision.

There was a time when Branson was perceived as the champion of competition, the champion of the people. But now the British public has grown tired of his moaning, "bad loser" rants. They could only take so much banging on about "competition" from an individual who simply cannot lose a competition, be it to Camelot, IAG or First Group, without threatening legal action against the demorcratically elected British government or the EC.
 
fcogafa
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:44 am

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 13):
Also I am not sure that current UK borders and government policies with would make an "international" dedicate feeder operation workable.

As far as I know you can't mix international pax with domestic pax/baggage so it would all need to be checked at the last point of departure.

Which makes me wonder how the Bangladesh Biman DAC-LHR-MAN-DAC flight works in regard to this?
 
MAN2SIN2BKK
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 16):
As far as I know you can't mix international pax with domestic pax/baggage so it would all need to be checked at the last point of departure.

The flight went off international at MAN so there were no domestic passengers; those that left the plane at LHR were transferring to BA flights to JFK etc from Terminal 4
 
Eagleboy
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:02 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 10):
Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
I agree that he loves the press and does sometimes blow a lot of hot air, but people are against anything VS & SRB do !

When the virgin lovers realise he is blowing hot air, imagine how the rest of us feel. Its the media-whore-esque rubbish like that gets Virgin a bad name.

Speaking of media whores........apparently FR are i talks "with a host of airlines" including VS to offer them the current EI DUB-LHR routes to allow the FR hostile takeover of EI. Similar to the MAN-LHR route, I can't see how this is going to help the overall VS operation without just adding complexity.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...es-over-london-routes-3203861.html

(Apologies for the standard of 'journalism' in this newspaper)
 
jumpjets
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:25 pm

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 9):
You could drive MAN - LHR in little over two hours

You clearly haven't driven down the M6/m40 etc lately - it took me 3.5 hours from South Cheshire abut 30 miles south of Manchester city centre yesterday. So that would be 4-4.5 hrs from city centre to Heathrow. Makes the flying option from MAN much more convenient if you are connecting to a long haul flight.
 
rutankrd
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting MAN2SIN2BKK (Reply 13):
I am sure a connection to the late evening intercontinentals from terminal 4 was offered by the BA19/20 service, it was certainly offered in the BA timetable back then

I really can't recall this ever being the case (Might be wrong) and especially in the case of JFK when the daily direct was available.

Also the MAN-LHR-HKG service was short lived and the Islamabad routed LHR-MAN - Pakistan.

BA relinquished the HKG service when CX went daily if memory serves.

However current security and border policies make "international" feeders effectively unworkable .

Quoting steve6666 (Reply 9):

You could drive MAN - LHR in little over two hours (albeit not particularly legally). And I would struggle to find a sane person not connecting to another flight at LHR who would not take the train.

On what planet do you live average times are in excess of 3 and 1/2 hours by road and by train/walk/tube/Heathrow Express they are much the same Manchester- Heathrow. This route is right at the tipping point where air travel becomes time competitive.

Given the silence from Aberdeen there may yet be something going on with VS and selected domestic routes.
 
qf002
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:29 pm

What good news -- I will now be able to connect all the way through to MAN on VS off their new nonstop 787 services to PER/SYD.

 
 
jumpjets
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:38 pm

Anyone reading the Irish Aviation thread will have seen that there was an article on the Guardian[newspaper] website - that has now been removed - which indicated that Virgin are planning to use some of its existing slots plus any they win from the BA/BD slot allocation auction for the MAN route.

My reading of the EU ruling on BAs takeover of BD is that the slots from the auction have to be used for certain specified routes - which don't include MAN - and cannot be transferred to other routes for 3 years. So it would seem that if VS is to introduce a MAN service in the short term, irrespective of whether or not it is awarded any of the ex-BD slots, the required slots will have to come from their existing pool or other slots bought on the open market.

Fortunately EI1989 who made the Original post about the Guardian article has a screen shot of the text which has now been removed from the guardian website can be found at http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7656/virginatlantictolaunchl.png

[Edited 2012-08-20 08:42:23]
 
fcogafa
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:08 pm

That article seemed pretty definate about ot, saying the route was starting next April and A319s had been leased.

So why retract it? Do VIR want to make a big announcement themselves or has the Guardian jumped the gun?

A LINK TO THE ARTICLE SAYS:

Removed: Embargoed report

guardian.co.uk, Monday 20 August 2012 13.40 BST
This article has been taken down as it breached an embargo.

[Edited 2012-08-20 09:16:17]
 
jonnyclark
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:48 pm

There is an embargo on the story meaning it isn't allowed to be released into the press until the embargo is lifted. Lots of companies do this to allow all sorts of publications equal opportunities to run the story at the same time.
Jonny, commercial pilot & founder of Thedesignair
 
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readytotaxi
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 24):

And I thought we lived in a land with a free press.  
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):
Sour grapes makes bad Whine.

Oh I love that.   
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
skipness1E
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 6):
Bottom line in this case, is to get more consumer choice on the MAN - LON routes.

This is wrong. Completely wrong.

The bottom line is always, to make as much money as possible for Virgin Atlantic and there is nothing wrong with that. It is a measure of success of SRB's strategy that what you say above, is plausible and believable to the public. Virgin Trains was a monopoly provider with a substantial and massive taxpayer subsidy.

The majority of people flying LHR-MAN are connecting, whereas LGW-MAN is point to point for the most part. LHR-MAN is noticeably a shorter flight, watch the speed of the service..... If Virgin Atlantic were serious about operating LHR-MAN, it would be to feed VS long haul, not to serve the London market per se. However are we really saying that if they got the slots they would not be better served on a long haul rotation? Or is this an attempt to haver the authorities make BA hand over slots to Virgin. Yeah.....
 
drgmobile
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:29 pm

There is a bit of a problem with the logic in the Virgin argument. The EC says there is competition on the route because of trains. Virgin says that this doesn't count because the rail passengers aren't connecting on to other destinations whereas 70% of those travelling by air are. So here is where the problem breaks down: If 70% of the MAN/LHR air travellers are connecting on to other destinations, it is not the MAN/LHR market that is in question -- it's the market between Manchester and these other destinations. For the argument to have any merit, there would have to be some sort of analysis showing that there is a lack of competition on other one-stop routes out of Manchester. This isn't discussed.
 
Luftymatt
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
A few people might be listening to his rhetoric, but I doubt anyone in Whitehall is taking him seriously, especially after his outbursts after losing the West Coast Mainline franchise last week.

What outbursts were these? I haven't heard him say anything to be honest.
Virgin did a good job with the West Coast Mainline, i's a shame they lost the franchise. But I agree, operating flights between MAN and LHR seems unlikely to be profitable.
chase the sun
 
rutankrd
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 28):
But I agree, operating flights between MAN and LHR seems unlikely to be profitable.

Only if you apply the BA accounting procedures.
 
willd
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting jonnyclark (Reply 24):

There is an embargo on the story meaning it isn't allowed to be released into the press until the embargo is lifted. Lots of companies do this to allow all sorts of publications equal opportunities to run the story at the same time.

Yep indeed. Embargo is going to be lifted tomorrow though apparently .
 
UK_Dispatcher
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 12):
No it was a BA Manchester 732 that flew for Qantas from T2 MAN - to T4 LHR for a season before QF finally gave up to rely on the Shuttle codes shares.

I also remember a service for QF operated from MAN T3 to LHR T4 by the now defunct Flightline, using a BAe 146 in the early 2000s.
 
Bongodog1964
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 28):
Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 3):A few people might be listening to his rhetoric, but I doubt anyone in Whitehall is taking him seriously, especially after his outbursts after losing the West Coast Mainline franchise last week.What outbursts were these? I haven't heard him say anything to be honest.

He immediately called for a judicial review, stated that the winners had got their figures wrong etc etc.
 
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adg737800
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:53 pm

Most companies and organisations will issue press releases ahead of any big announcement with an embargo. It allows journalists to ask any questions they may have, but also allows those issuing the release to control its dissemination - i.e. the story will appear everywhere at the same time in a controlled manner. It's called media (or meejah) management and the vast majority of big companies use that tactic.

On the whole there's an unwritten rule that if a story is embargoed then the media respects it. If you break an embargo you can be sure you'll end up in a whole heap of trouble and will be struck off the A-list of journalists! Don't even think of getting that free Upper Class jaunt to the next exotic destination that VS announces (MAN included)!

Meanwhile, I saw the Guardian article before it was pulled. It basically said VS would use their own slots and top this up with any they won from IAG to launch services. Whether the latter happens or not, it said that service would commence in March next year.

Good luck to them, but if you were starting short haul from LHR, surely there are more lucrative opportunities?
Next flights: LCY-IOM (BA) IOM-LGW (U2); LHR-KUL-LHR (BA); KUL-LGK-KUL (AK)
 
fcogafa
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 32):
I also remember a service for QF operated from MAN T3 to LHR T4 by the now defunct Flightline, using a BAe 146 in the early 2000s.

I believe that this was popularly thought to be a slot holder
 
mainMAN
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting adg737800 (Reply 33):
Good luck to them, but if you were starting short haul from LHR, surely there are more lucrative opportunities?

Absolutely, although I'm beginning to think even the LHR market is running out of lucrative opportunities. In any case, VS launching domestic is testament to the benefits of tapping into markets like MAN and EDI.

They may even (and this is a long shot) be able to market these flights as an alternative to First West Coast, or whatever it's going to be called, and achieve a slight reversal of peoples' travel preferences.
 
virgincrew
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 22):
Fortunately EI1989 who made the Original post about the Guardian article has a screen shot of the text which has now been removed from the guardian website can be found at http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/765...l.png

well based on that article - it's happening !

Manchester Airport have almost confirmed it aswell in the same article and it's been confirmed that A319's have been leased.

It reads that existing LHR slots are to be used for the MAN - LHR - MAN route and then subsquent domestic routes will be launched if successful in getting the slots from IAG.
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
skipness1E
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 35):
In any case, VS launching domestic is testament to the benefits of tapping into markets like MAN and EDI.

In what way? I don't see the commercial link.

OK so this odd.
It's never been harder to make UK domestic profitable due to high fuel prices, APD and high airport charges discouraging smaller aircraft.
BA make the vast bulk of their money on lon haul routes and short haul exists as a feeder for loing haul. On it's own merits, short haul is very tricky to get right from LHR. Most legacy carriers with multile dailies are feeding a hub.
KLM / AF / LH / LX / SN etc etc all the way to EK / QR / EY

VS have succeeded in making long haul point to point work from LHR with some feed and codeshares as London has a massive O&D market. However in recent years I have argued that VS have nowehere to go without an alliance. Some new long haul routes have not worked out of LHR.
LHR-YVR is not doing a whole lot against AC and BA given it's not even daily.
LHR-ORD has not been established year round.
LHR-NBO has been dropped
LHR-MRU also dropped

The old scheme of taking a BA route and milking it into a daily year round operation has run out. However VS are known as a long haul carrier, they do have a track record in short haul but it's always failed or been dropped.
Virgin Sun
Virgin Express
Virgin Atlantic operated by SEEA.
Virgin Atlantic operated by CityJet

Now since LHR-MAN point to point is not massive, I assume they're going to be feeding their own long haul. I assume that in the short term it will be a T1 operation requiring a change of terminal for all flights. I honestly cannot see this being a commercial success. BMI struggled to fill an ERJ145 on many flights and the busy Airbus flights were carrying a pile of STAR passengers at a loss to the British carrier. Unless SRB has something to differentiate this, (like a Pendolino was back in the day) I can't see how on Earth, it can succeed.
 
1stfl94
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Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:06 pm

Is it just me or does this not seem like a good idea for VS. LHR-MAN has not exactly worked for BMI given that they dropped for 4 x daily service mostly with ERJs, hardly the best use of an LHR slot. If Branson wants to get back into the domestic UK travel market he would be better off bidding for the ECML franchise when that comes up for renewal next year.
 
LHRFlyer
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting adg737800 (Reply 33):
Good luck to them, but if you were starting short haul from LHR, surely there are more lucrative opportunities?

Bearing in mind Virgin reported a loss of £80m last year I think this highlights that Virgin is being impacted by the AA/BA joint venture and other rival alliances and needs to generate more feed itself for its own network. The restarted Mumbai route is purposely timed to feed transatlantic routes and I'm sure Virgin will request slot times for Moscow to feed transatlantic long haul.

If Virgin's long haul departures were in waves I could see the logic of starting LHR-MAN but as departures are spread all over the day, I struggle to see how they will offer competitive connections.
 
virgincrew
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:16 pm

This livery would be fantastic for a Virgin Domestic Carrier...

Hello Beautiful !!!
 
LondonCity
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:17 pm

The new LHR-MAN service is confirmed in the Daily Mirror. The article says there will be x 3 flts a day. It also says that VS is also looking at serving EDI and ABZ from LHR.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-n...antic-to-launch-new-london-1271572
 
skipness1E
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:42 pm

This feels like a last throw of the dice on strategy. It's high risk and a guaranteed loss maker for a few years. It would take a goliath effort to get this into profit.
LHR-MAN x 3 requires three slot pairs. Are they about to use another six to serve EDI and ABZ? If they drop a single long haul rotartion to support this, I think it's...."interesting". I mean London-EDI / ABZ is already remarkably well served, EDI particularly so.
 
LHRFlyer
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:14 pm

Three flights a day to LHR versus up to 11 for BA...
 
virgincrew
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 42):
LHR-MAN x 3 requires three slot pairs. Are they about to use another six to serve EDI and ABZ? If they drop a single long haul rotartion to support this, I think it's...."interesting". I mean London-EDI / ABZ is already remarkably well served, EDI particularly so.

For the MAN -LHR route from March, this will be operated using existing VS LHR slots, but for the potential EDI & ABZ - LHR routes, they are looking at using the slots that IAG has to give up (if VS get their hands on them).

If I remember rightly, a few years ago VS leased out some of their LHR slots to other carriers, so they might be getting them back and therefore, won't affect their existing long haul routes... Does anyone else remember VS leasing out some of their LHR slots ??
Hello Beautiful !!!
 
Luftymatt
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:27 pm

Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:40 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 29):
Only if you apply the BA accounting procedures.

True enough, can't argue with that  
Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 32):
He immediately called for a judicial review, stated that the winners had got their figures wrong etc etc.

Yeh I can see how it might look like that, but maybe he has a point this time? There was something odd about the process.
chase the sun
 
LondonCity
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:25 pm

It's definite. Now confirmed by the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19324962
 
aamd11
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:50 pm

When the BA/BD merger was first mooted, it was all about the Scottish markets. We must protect the consumer on routes to EDI and ABZ. Why start MAN before the Scottish markets, since such a big deal was made of said routes... surely, from a public relations perspective, getting a start on EDI or ABZ service now would be a sensible move. Demonstrate you're "serious" about competition on these routes by getting in there and competing, without waiting for slots to be handed to you.

No mention yet of the monopoly situations on either the NCL or LBA routes, I notice.  
 
skipness1E
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:34 am

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 44):
For the MAN -LHR route from March, this will be operated using existing VS LHR slots

They just happen to have the necessary slot pairs for a peak time thrice daily short haul service? Wow that's handy. Is anything being dropped from long haul to make room? Also, and quite crucially, T3 or T1? As BAA will charge a premium for a domestic addition to T3.
 
skipness1E
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Virgin Atlantic MAN-LHR-MAN Flights

Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:42 am

I remember now what this made me think of. Surely many of you are familiar with the term "jumping the shark"? This is VS's shark jump IMHO.