SCL767
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LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:11 am

As part of the Green Skies of Perú project, LAN Perú intends to increase frequencies on certain routes in Perú. Starting in October, LAN Perú will operate the LIM-CUZ route up to 154x weekly (source: amadeus.net)! Thus, on certain days LAN Perú will offer up to 24 non-stop flights on the LIM-CUZ route! This will be the first time that any single carrier has operated that many non-stop flights between LIM and CUZ on a single day!

CC-CYJ Landing At CUZ:

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Photo © Juan Manuel Temoche - SPIM Spotters

 
mayhem
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:17 am

Interesting!
2 questions:
- I flew this one on an a319, can this be flown by larger? Other AC I saw at CUZ were 732 and avro jets, what's the largest CUZ can take?
- Are all LA and LP pilots certified to do the (spectacular) CUZ approaches? Or is there a subset only?
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting mayhem (Reply 1):
I flew this one on an a319, can this be flown by larger? Other AC I saw at CUZ were 732 and avro jets, what's the largest CUZ can take?

The A321, LAN will begin to incorporate the A321 a/c into its fleet starting next year and has identified the LIM-CUZ route as a candidate for A321 service.

Quoting mayhem (Reply 1):
Are all LA and LP pilots certified to do the (spectacular) CUZ approaches? Or is there a subset only?

Only LAN Perú pilots operate flights into CUZ. And yes, all LAN Perú A319 pilots are certified to operate the LIM-CUZ route.
 
Burkhard
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:31 am

CUZ is high 4000m and in a norrow deep valley. Looking at its departures it is dominated by A319, a few 732, Avro and E190. So it looks it is not certified for A320/737NG
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:45 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
So it looks it is not certified for A320/737NG

Are you sure about that? Another carrier operates the A320 into CUZ and has operated the A321 into CUZ as well...
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:48 am

I flew the route with LA aboard CC-COQ LIM-CUZ-LIM which was an A320. It is indeed feasible for larger than 319 ops
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:54 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
So it looks it is not certified for A320/737NG

A-320-233 CC-COT Departing CUZ for LIM:

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Photo © mutzair

 
mogandoCI
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:57 am

I wonder how many of those CUZ pax are only using it as a gateway to machu picchu
 
jumpjets
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting mayhem (Reply 1):
Other AC I saw at CUZ were 732 and avro jets, what's the largest CUZ can take?

Many moons ago [June 2003] I flew from Cusco to Puerto Maldonado - what a sweet little airport - and my flight log shows that journey [and the subsequent return to Lima] being on an AeroContinente Boeing 727 - though I failed to note which particular version of the 727 it was.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:08 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
I wonder how many of those CUZ pax are only using it as a gateway to machu picchu

Over 1 million people live in the Cuzco Region! LAN Perú operates flights from CUZ to PEM thrice daily, along with daily flights between CUZ and both JUL and AQP!
 
hiflyeras
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:27 pm

Loved the landing in CUZ on LAN Peru a couple of years ago! Reminded me of some airports in Alaska with mountains on three sides of the runway. Big ol' 180 degree bank turn just before landing.
 
kl911
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:57 pm

With a distance of roughly 580 km wouldnt a highspeed rail or highway be better? Like they did in Spain between Barcelona and Madrid.
 
Acheron
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 11):
With a distance of roughly 580 km wouldnt a highspeed rail or highway be better? Like they did in Spain between Barcelona and Madrid.

I wouldn't want to see the economics of a high speed rail being built through the Andes...
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:11 pm

This video details the RNP savings from every flight that LAN Perú operates between LIM and CUZ: http://youtu.be/axTdo-Ic06M
 
mogandoCI
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Over 1 million people live in the Cuzco Region! LAN Perú operates flights from CUZ to PEM thrice daily, along with daily flights between CUZ and both JUL and AQP!

wow .... 1 million ... that's like ... Albany NY! I'm sure those 1mil Cuzco residents are flooded with cash to fly to Lima all the time.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 14):
wow .... 1 million ... that's like ... Albany NY! I'm sure those 1mil Cuzco residents are flooded with cash to fly to Lima all the time.

Whether you like it or not; they do fly on LAN Perú not only to LIM, but to other domestic destinations that LAN Perú serves with-in Perú! And guess what, LAN Perú is increasing frequencies to other cities with-in Perú as well. Do many tourists visit destinations such as AQP?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 15):
Whether you like it or not; they do fly on LAN Perú not only to LIM, but to other domestic destinations that LAN Perú serves with-in Perú! And guess what, LAN Perú is increasing frequencies to other cities with-in Perú as well. Do many tourists visit destinations such as AQP?

How is any of that relevant? I was originally asking how many tourists are on LIM-CUZ services, and you diverge off to AQP. Do you have actual data to show that local Peru residents not on tourism purposes account for the majority for LIM-CUZ pax numbers ?
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):
How is any of that relevant? I was originally asking how many tourists are on LIM-CUZ services, and you diverge off to AQP.

Just to show that you really lack knowledge of the Peruvian domestic market. LAN Perú is also increasing frequencies to other destinations with-in Perú as the Peruvian economy continues to grow robustly!

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 16):
Do you have actual data to show that local Peru residents not on tourism purposes account for the majority for LIM-CUZ pax numbers ?

The majority of passengers traveling on the LIM-CUZ route are Peruvian citizens.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):

Just to show that you really lack knowledge of the Peruvian domestic market. LAN Perú is also increasing frequencies to other destinations with-in Perú as the Peruvian economy continues to grow robustly!

Your "knowledge" of the market comes straight out of reading spreadsheets provided by your employer LAN, so that's nothing impressive at all.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:47 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 18):
Your "knowledge" of the market comes straight out of reading spreadsheets provided by your employer LAN, so that's nothing impressive at all.

Really? Why don't you enlighten us as to what the percentage of domestic capacity will grow to year on year for this November in Perú. Also, what is the fastest growing domestic carrier with-in Perú after LAN Perú, hint it's not TA?
 
A300 American
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:51 pm

MogandoCI: SCL767 is absolutely correct. Peru's economy is very (has been) robust and thus business travel has become more of a factor. The tourism to Machu Picchu also has been extremely robust in that there is discussion about having time limits for tourist at the ruins so MORE tourist can visit (stupid idea IMO). I can understand why LAN would want to increase capacity. I don't have stats, but I do read the local Peruvian newspaper everyday and still keep up with the tourist business there. I used to be a travel agent, but have since sold the business. BTW, you asked how many use CUZ as a "gateway" to the ruins. I would say the grand majority of them. The only way to see the ruins (by air) is to land in CUZ.

[Edited 2012-08-21 08:52:26]

[Edited 2012-08-21 09:41:25 by A300 American]
 
avi8
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:59 pm

To what other destinations is LAN increasing frequencies? How many total flights does LAN have from LIM? I'm guessing it's becoming one of the largest hubs in terms of flights after BOG, PTY, and GRU (Not in order nor do I know the actual stats, just a lucky guess).
avi8

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SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 21):

To what other destinations is LAN increasing frequencies?

To domestic destinations with-in Perú such as AQP, IQT, PCL, PIU, TBP, TRU, etc. LAN Perú will also increase frequency on the LIM-UIO route to 2x daily, the LIM-JFK route will increase to 11x weekly, the LIM-MIA route will increase to 17x weekly, the LIM-LAX route will increase to 13x weekly, the LIM-SCL route will increase to 9x daily. In November, LAN Perú will launch a second daily service to Bolivia operating as LIM-LPB-VVI daily; which will complement the existing LIM-VVI-LPB-LIM 4x weekly service and the existing LIM-LPB-VVI-LIM 3x weekly service. Also, TAM will launch GIG-LIM at 3x weekly initially on 31OCT12. Additional flights to CCS, CUN, HAV, MEX, etc. are planned as well.
 
SPIM2EDDN
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
CUZ is high 4000m and in a norrow deep valley. Looking at its departures it is dominated by A319, a few 732, Avro and E190. So it looks it is not certified for A320/737NG
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
Are you sure about that? Another carrier operates the A320 into CUZ and has operated the A321 into CUZ as well...

Actually Aero Continente and AA used to operate the 752 into CUZ.

And I've seen pictures of the former Luftwaffe A310 (you can find them on that other popular aviation photography site) and a C-17 landing in CUZ.

[Edited 2012-08-21 11:21:15]
 
123
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:13 pm

Amaszonas of Bolivia want to serve CUZ as well, now that 5L is gone and LB since long does not serve CUZ anymore.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 23):
Actually Aero Continente and AA used to operate the 752 into CUZ.

Yep, AA used to fly JFK-LIM-CUZ without Fifth Freedom Rights on the LIM-CUZ sector.

Quoting 123 (Reply 24):
Amaszonas of Bolivia want to serve CUZ as well, now that 5L is gone and LB since long does not serve CUZ anymore.

According to their website, daily flights with the CRJ200 commence next week. Are these flights bookable?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:16 pm

The topic is kind of misleading. I thought they were going to do some altitude/aircraft performance related stunt!

Anyway, it's good to hear that the Cuzco region is getting so much connectivity. With the impossibility of having direct flights to it's main tourism markets, the link to LIM remains essential to it's development. When is the new aiprort supposed to open?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 7):
I wonder how many of those CUZ pax are only using it as a gateway to machu picchu

I would guess over fifty percent, just by looking at the schedules to other peruvian cities with much bigger business output, like Arequipa and Trujillo.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Over 1 million people live in the Cuzco Region! LAN Perú operates flights from CUZ to PEM thrice daily, along with daily flights between CUZ and both JUL and AQP!

Ok, let's put this in context. Cartagena, Colombia is a city about the same size as Cuzco per your standards (while most surces cite metropolitan Cuzco to be about half a million, in which case you would rather compare it to Santa Marta). CTG is vastly richer than Cuzco, yet they don't have as many daily links to the capital as the other city does (BOG and LIM are about the same size, with Lima being slightly larger in population, yet with a tad smaller GDP).

Why is this? Because CTG is not yet the tourism powerhouse that CUZ is, and maybe never will be. Sure, the peruvian economy is growing and air travel is picking up, but one can't stop to acknowledge that the majority of the pax on the CUZ-LIM route are tourists, who are flocking to the marvelous ruins of Macchu Picchu.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 14):
wow .... 1 million ... that's like ... Albany NY! I'm sure those 1mil Cuzco residents are flooded with cash to fly to Lima all the time.

Less coloquially, yes, a city of 1 million people from a middle to lower income country cannot support over 30 daily flights to it's capital by itself, or even largely by itself, external factors such as tourism have to come into play.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 17):
as the Peruvian economy continues to grow robustly!

No one doubts that. But look at the schedules for AQP and TRU, which are true business routes with little tourism. Much smaller.

Quoting a300 american (Reply 20):
Peru's economy is very (has been) robust and thus business travel has become more of a factor.

Indeed, but not as much of a factor as it has been suggested.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:38 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 26):
The topic is kind of misleading. I thought they were going to do some altitude/aircraft performance related stunt!

Why is it misleading; as I explained in OP, no other carrier has ever operated up to 24 daily non-stop flights on the LIM-CUZ route; which is the most important domestic route with-in Perú!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 26):
No one doubts that. But look at the schedules for AQP and TRU, which are true business routes with little tourism. Much smaller.

And LAN Perú continues to increase flights into these cities as more and more cities in Perú require more flights. LAN Perú will increase frequency on the LIM-AQP route from 9x daily to 12x daily. LAN Perú will soon increase frequency on the LIM-JUL route to 3x daily; thus LAN Perú will operate 5 daily flights into JUL.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 26):
Sure, the peruvian economy is growing and air travel is picking up, but one can't stop to acknowledge that the majority of the pax on the CUZ-LIM route are tourists, who are flocking to the marvelous ruins of Macchu Picchu.

Air traffic has been growing in Perú for years now so it's not just "picking up"!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 26):
Quoting a300 american (Reply 20):
Peru's economy is very (has been) robust and thus business travel has become more of a factor.

Indeed, but not as much of a factor as it has been suggested.

Well some carriers have neglected the Peruvian domestic market so it might seem that way to you. Domestic capacity is expected to increase up to 20% this year in Perú:
Peru traffic grows 12% in first half 2012; domestic capacity up 20% in November, but LAN still dominates

[Edited 2012-08-21 13:39:40]
 
realsim
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 14):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Over 1 million people live in the Cuzco Region! LAN Perú operates flights from CUZ to PEM thrice daily, along with daily flights between CUZ and both JUL and AQP!

wow .... 1 million ... that's like ... Albany NY! I'm sure those 1mil Cuzco residents are flooded with cash to fly to Lima all the time.

What a weak comparison. 1 million people in the middle of the Andes mountains is not the same as 1 million people in Frankfurt, or 1 million people in an island, or 1 million people in Albany NY...
 
RCS763AV
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
Why is it misleading; as I explained in OP, no other carrier has ever operated up to 24 daily non-stop flights on the LIM-CUZ route; which is the most important domestic route with-in Perú!

Ok, not misleading. Maybe a little bit sensationalist. It's probably the first thread I've seen in years when someone calls operating a large schedule on a route a record with an exclamation point. It's not factually wrong, its just that not everything should be deemed a record.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
And LAN Perú continues to increase flights into these cities as more and more cities in Perú require more flights.

I don't doubt it. That doesn't change the fact that the vast amount of pax heading to CUZ are tourists.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
Air traffic has been growing in Perú for years now so it's not just "picking up"!

The peruvian domestic market, mainly thanks to the actions of LAN, has just very recently become a relevant market in the south american sphere. With sustained growth, it might become one of the larger markets in the region. So it might have been growing for some years, but it came from being tiny.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
Well some carriers have neglected the Peruvian domestic market so it might seem that way to you. Domestic capacity is expected to increase up to 20% this year in Perú:

Again, in my wrongly quoted statement, I meant on the LIM-CUZ route. And by airlines who have been neglecting the market, who do you mean? They all went bankrupt that I know of, because the other three main competitors are growing steady or keeping their pace.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
Why is it misleading; as I explained in OP, no other carrier has ever operated up to 24 daily non-stop flights on the LIM-CUZ route; which is the most important domestic route with-in Perú!

Ok, not misleading. Maybe a little bit sensationalist. It's probably the first thread I've seen in years when someone calls operating a large schedule on a route a record with an exclamation point. It's not factually wrong, its just that not everything should be deemed a record.

IMO, it's actually quite fascinating since CUZ does not permit night take-offs or landings!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
And LAN Perú continues to increase flights into these cities as more and more cities in Perú require more flights.

I don't doubt it. That doesn't change the fact that the vast amount of pax heading to CUZ are tourists.

And what's wrong if Peruvians and Foreigners are traveling to CUZ in increasing numbers? Also, business is growing in Perú and more pax need to travel to other cities i.e. AQP, JUL, LIM, PEM, etc.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 27):
Air traffic has been growing in Perú for years now so it's not just "picking up"!

The peruvian domestic market, mainly thanks to the actions of LAN, has just very recently become a relevant market in the south american sphere. With sustained growth, it might become one of the larger markets in the region. So it might have been growing for some years, but it came from being tiny.

LAN Perú began domestic flights in Perú in 1999. Luckily, the Peruvian economy has grown dramatically since then and now has better air connectivity than ever before!

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 29):
And by airlines who have been neglecting the market, who do you mean? They all went bankrupt that I know of, because the other three main competitors are growing steady or keeping their pace.

LC Buscre is now branded as LC Perú and recently renovated its fleet. Peruvian Airlines just received another B-737 and will receive two more by November to increase domestic flights. Great news for the Peruvian traveler!
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 23):
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 4):
Are you sure about that? Another carrier operates the A320 into CUZ and has operated the A321 into CUZ as well...

Actually Aero Continente and AA used to operate the 752 into CUZ.

And I've seen pictures of the former Luftwaffe A310 (you can find them on that other popular aviation photography site) and a C-17 landing in CUZ.

Boeing flew the 747SP into CUZ as part of a sales demonstration. So CUZ can handle larger airplanes.
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 30):
And what's wrong if Peruvians and foreigners are traveling to CUZ in increasing numbers? Also, business is growing in Peru and more pax need to travel to other cities i.e. AQP, JUL, LIM, PEM, etc.

  

It's 'funny' how some posters in this thread talk about the Peruvian domestic market with no actual data and no background information.

It's a FACT that the LIM-CUZ-LIM route is primarily driven by tourism, whether those tourists are Peruvian citizens, foreigners or from Mars is completely IRRELEVANT. @MogandoCI: Did you really think that only foreigners visit Cuzco and its environs..?!

The reason why Arequipa and Trujillo don't present that many flights to Lima is because there is a good and well maintained infrastructure (namely the Pan American Highway) that connects Lima with both cities. Also, the distance between Lima and Trujillo is merely 490 km so driving your own car or taking a cheap modern bus is almost always a good option, not to mention the fact that Trujillo is a coastal city. Last but not least, remember that LAN Perú is NOT the only airline flying within Peru.
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
RCS763AV
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 30):

And what's wrong if Peruvians and Foreigners are traveling to CUZ in increasing numbers? Also, business is growing in Perú and more pax need to travel to other cities i.e. AQP, JUL, LIM, PEM, etc.

Nothing is wrong with it. You just jumped into the conclusion that a user was somehow saying it was because of his poorly chosen, yet true words.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 32):
It's a FACT that the LIM-CUZ-LIM route is primarily driven by tourism, whether those tourists are Peruvian citizens, foreigners or from Mars is completely IRRELEVANT.

Indeed, it is. But what this user was saying was blatantly attacked without even thinking that all he wanted to say was that, that demand for 24 daily flights + competition can't be generated just by Cuzco´s and Lima´s business ties, but also by touristic demand.

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 32):

The reason why Arequipa and Trujillo don't present that many flights to Lima is because there is a good and well maintained infrastructure (namely the Pan American Highway)

Also because there is no demand for 30 flights a day! Try to keep things proportionate....having a nice highway is not the only reason. I could tell you of so many city pairs with larger economic output and higher population bases with less flights per day. I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with it, but let's not go saying LIM-AQP could have the demand of LIM-CUZ but it's the nice road that deters people from flying, it's still an over 12 hour drive. Bogotá is 7 hours away from Medellín and there are still up to 44 flights a day between the two. Same story with Sao Paulo and Rio.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 32):
It's 'funny' how some posters in this thread talk about the Peruvian domestic market with no actual data and no background information.

Indeed, also it's important to note that LIM serves as a domestic hub offering multiple daily connections. Next month, LAN Perú will increase frequency on the LIM-TRU route to 24x weekly. In October, the LIM-AQP route will operate up to 12x daily and the LIM-IQT route will increase to 38x weekly.

Source: amadeus.net
 
kenadams
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:48 am

While some data about the Peruvian domestic market would be desirable and beneficial to this discussion, I believe one aspect that has been overlooked here is the logistical feat that operating this many flights in and out of CUZ poses: the airport has no refueling facilities, no start units and no repair facilities. Furthermore, no instrument approach is available: high minima of 14,500 feet (and 8km visibility) for daytime only approaches to a single runway (28), coupled with ATC's lack of radar facilities at the airport (they would be of little use due to the mountain peaks surrounding the field), make this one very challenging airport to dispatch 154 weekly flights to with any reliability.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting kenadams (Reply 35):
I believe one aspect that has been overlooked here is the logistical feat that operating this many flights in and out of CUZ poses: the airport has no refueling facilities, no start units and no repair facilities. Furthermore, no instrument approach is available: high minima of 14,500 feet (and 8km visibility) for daytime only approaches to a single runway (28), coupled with ATC's lack of radar facilities at the airport (they would be of little use due to the mountain peaks surrounding the field), make this one very challenging airport to dispatch 154 weekly flights to with any reliability.

LAN Perú has previously worked with GE to design and deploy RNP procedures at CUZ since 2009. LAN Perú has also operated more than 20 daily flights into CUZ on a single day many times since then and also has procedures in place should a flight need to divert or if an aircraft goes tech at CUZ. Since the implementation of the RNP procedures at CUZ; LAN Perú's operations have significantly improved on the LIM-CUZ route:

Quote:
In 2009, GE, in collaboration with IATA, designed and deployed Required Navigation Performance (RNP) approach procedures for LAN at Cusco to improve access into the airport that is flanked by the Andes Mountains. Prior to the RNP paths, it was typical for one or more of LAN's 15-21 scheduled flights per day into Cusco to be delayed or diverted due to poor weather and low visibility. Since the RNP paths have been in use at Cusco, LAN has reduced cancellations from 12 to five, flight delays by 45% and un-stabilized approaches by 94%, per month on average. During the first year of RNP use at Cusco, more than 30,000 of LAN Peru´s passengers avoided flight cancellations or delays, thanks to the technology. With the success of the Cusco paths, LAN selected GE Aviation in 2010 to develop an RNP program at five other airports it serves, including Lima.
World's First RNP to ILS with Autoland Flight Completed in Green Skies of Peru Project GE, Peruvian aviation leaders continue collaboration to improve Lima air traffic efficiency
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting mayhem (Reply 1):
I flew this one on an a319, can this be flown by larger?

I flew as a passenger on TA LIM-CUZ with 321: April 2010.




.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 11):
With a distance of roughly 580 km wouldnt a highspeed rail or highway be better? Like they did in Spain between Barcelona and Madrid.

The topographical issues among Lima and Cuzco made this statement unfeasible.

Regards
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Skisandy
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:15 am

Remember Faucett? About 25 years ago, just before they went out of business, I flew on their DC-8 in and out of CUZ. Now-that's a plane that needs a long runway, even when it's not hot/humid/high. This should put to rest any discussion about whether an A321 or any other modern plane is powerful enough to take off on the CUZ runway.
 
airsmiles
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:19 am

I flew LIM-CUZ-LIM with Aerocontiente in 2003 and standard equipment then was the B727-100. Other flights noted at CUZ were operated by B737-200, B727-200 and F28. LAN were just starting to introduce the A320 at that point (VP-BCJ and VP-BCS noted) and they were noticeably quicker to get off the runway than the older aircraft.

Despite Cuzco being a huge tourist attraction both of our flights were at least 90% full with Peruvians so the domestic market must be huge.

One operational point though. Certainly in 2003 the local climate dictated that all flights had to arrive/depart by about 2pm, I assume due to the height, heat and wind patterns changing later in the day. Also, Cuzco suffers a lot of early morning fog, so the operational envelope seemed to be only approx. 9am to 2pm each day when we were there. It may have changed now with modern higher performance aircraft, but I'm struggling to see how LAN can fit in so many flights in one day. I'm off to check the timetable now!
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:01 am

Quoting airsmiles (Reply 39):
but I'm struggling to see how LAN can fit in so many flights in one day. I'm off to check the timetable now!

Done! As you can see, LAN has several flights that depart within 5-10 minutes of each other. Also, some flights depart both LIM and CUZ at the same time.
LIM-CUZ:
05:00 LA2115
05:20 LA2025
05:30 LA2015
05:50 LA2017
05:50 LA2013
06:00 LA2073
06:20 LA2011
07:00 LA2029
07:25 LA2019
07:55 LA2023
09:15 LA2047
09:45 LA2075
10:00 LA2027
10:10 LA2021
10:50 LA2071
11:05 LA2041
11:25 LA2049
11:50 LA2031
13:10 LA2035
13:35 LA2039
13:40 LA2395
13:45 LA2037
14:00 LA2111
14:55 LA2033

Source: LAN.com

Quoting airsmiles (Reply 39):
LAN were just starting to introduce the A320 at that point (VP-BCJ and VP-BCS noted) and they were noticeably quicker to get off the runway than the older aircraft.

VP-BCJ:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



VP-BCS

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui

 
airsmiles
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:09 am

Wow that's some schedule! We were delayed about 2 hours leaving Cuzco due to fog, so I'd hate to be the one to get all of those flights out by 3pmn in that scenario.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting airsmiles (Reply 41):
Wow that's some schedule! We were delayed about 2 hours leaving Cuzco due to fog, so I'd hate to be the one to get all of those flights out by 3pmn in that scenario.

These are the first 6 departures from CUZ and the last 6 departures from CUZ:
07:20 LA2014
07:25 LA2024
07:45 LA2012
07:45 LA2016
08:15 LA2010
08:45 LA2028
15:00 LA2034
15:30 LA2038
15:30 LA2036
15:45 LA2072
16:00 LA2112
16:50 LA2032

Source: LAN.com

[Edited 2012-08-22 01:40:02]
 
SPIM2EDDN
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:44 am

Quoting kenadams (Reply 35):
the airport has no refueling facilities, no start units and no repair facilities. Furthermore, no instrument approach is available: high minima of 14,500 feet (and 8km visibility) for daytime only approaches to a single runway (28), coupled with ATC's lack of radar facilities at the airport (they would be of little use due to the mountain peaks surrounding the field), make this one very challenging airport to dispatch 154 weekly flights to with any reliability.
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 40):
Done! As you can see, LAN has several flights that depart within 5-10 minutes of each other



The new CUZ airport is due to begin operations in 2017 if I´m not mistaken and is supposed to be able to handle wide bodies. It will feature ILS approach allowing night flights and will have all facilities any big modern airport has nowadays.

So I wouldn't be surprised if LA one day in the future decides to operate the 767 on the LIM-CUZ route considering the demand growth in the upcoming years.
 
SCL767
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:57 am

Quoting SPIM2EDDN (Reply 43):
So I wouldn't be surprised if LA one day in the future decides to operate the 767 on the LIM-CUZ route considering the demand growth in the upcoming years.

No, the B763s will eventually be deployed on certain short-haul routes that are cargo intensive, i.e. LIM-UIO and LIM-BOG. Also, LAN will be receiving new B-767-316ERs through next year. In the near-term, LAN already plans to deploy the new A321s on routes, i.e. SCL-ANF, SCL-CCP, SCL-EZE, SCL-GRU, SCL-LIM, LIM-CUZ, BOG-CLO, BOG-MDE, etc. By 2017, the A321neos will join LATAM's fleet.
 
Burkhard
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RE: LAN Perú To Set A Record On The LIM-CUZ Route!

Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 11):
With a distance of roughly 580 km wouldnt a highspeed rail or highway be better? Like they did in Spain between Barcelona and Madrid.



Looking at the map, no. And knowing that the earth is very unstable in that area speaks against a railway as much against a good highway.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 15):
Do many tourists visit destinations such as AQP



Yes, not as many as CUZ but AQP is a good tourist destination. I would recommend to go LIM-AQP-CUZ-LIM anyways for getting used to the height.

Quoting a300 american (Reply 20):
BTW, you asked how many use CUZ as a "gateway" to the ruins. I would say the grand majority of them.



Depends on the flight. I flew several times, and some were full of people who looked and behaved like tourists, including many school classes, and others we were the only non business looking people.