gigneil
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The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:34 am

So, ladies and gents (mostly gents I'm sure), with the schedule upload tomorrow (Sat, Aug 25) the largest number of sUA and sCO redeployments will occur since the merger.

United now has a very flexible fleet - and you may say the difference between an A320 and 737-800 is small, but across a whole fleet and a bunch of flights those extra (or fewer) seats add up. Also the performance characteristics of the planes will be matched to routes - A320s deployed where a non-SFP 738 couldn't take off, 73Gs on those long long flights, things of that nature.

So as you note these schedule changes, lets keep them here. Things I know will be happening:

SFO - going to be a big 739ER recipient
IAH - going to get all those A320s from SFO

and more.

NS
 
AirframeAS
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting gigneil (Thread starter):
SFO - going to be a big 739ER recipient

I'm expecting DEN to get a LOT of 737's with a reduction of A320/757's. Maybe it is too soon for that?
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gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:45 am

I understand, from what I understand, that SFO is going to be sending A320s and getting 739ERs in return since there's no such thing as a lightly loaded mainline flight to SFO.

Basically as I understand it, IAH is not filling its 738s or 9s consistently - and the routes that DO will be getting 757s. So a lot of A320s to IAH to right size those flights, and a lot of 737s to DEN and SFO to backfill the A320s and 757s.

So. Yeah.

NS
 
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
a lot of 737s to DEN and SFO to backfill the A320s and 757s.

A lot of the DEN guys (ramp) is not going to be very happy about that. However, I am!   
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AVENSAB727
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:51 am

But IAH will still get its share of 738s and 739s.
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:52 am

Why would the ramp guys not be happy? More bags to toss?
 
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 5):
Why would the ramp guys not be happy? More bags to toss?

Using Cobra/Shares on the 737's and having to follow what the CO loadplanners want is a major pain in the butt for those guys so it is a "nightmare" for them. On the sUA aircraft, it is lead discretion on how the plane is loaded.

Leads want the same flexibility when loading a sCO aircraft as if it was a sUA aircraft.
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gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 4):
But IAH will still get its share of 738s and 739s.

Actually the plan is to move almost the entire 737 fleet from IAH and replace it with A320s. Certainly, they will be getting their 737s through.

I know the facts in this case. But you can believe whatever you want.

NS
 
gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:15 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Leads want the same flexibility when loading a sCO aircraft as if it was a sUA aircraft.

Are the systems that divergent still?

NS
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:22 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 7):

But why the entire 737 fleet though? And where did you get those facts.

[Edited 2012-08-24 18:37:02]
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gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:35 am

Its not the entire fleet, as you pointed out. There will be a lot of crossover.

To make you happy: in a lot of cases the 737 fleet is too small. IAH will be getting a LOT of 757s from the SA)">UA side.

But the A320 fleet is better suited to a lot of the IAH flying. It has an onboard IFE system that isn't satellite, so its best used to those Mexican and Caribbean and northern SA destinations.

Also, IAH is unencumbered. They can add flights there all day. 5 A320 trips exchanged for a few 737s that would be very key in the SFO long-haul domestic network. Most flights from IAH are shorter than most flights from DEN or SFO.

It makes sense. I promise. It works out in the wash.

NS
 
drerx7
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:36 am

The schedule change that is happening tomorrow - what are the effective dates?
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gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 11):
The schedule change that is happening tomorrow - what are the effective dates?

September, I hear, for at least 90-100 flights on the crossfleeting. It will be the entire fall schedule at least.

NS
 
roseflyer
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:43 am

Are they shifting the pilot bases?

I also don't really understand the Shift on the A320s. I guess the 16 seat difference is significant for UA.
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AVENSAB727
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 10):

Thanks for the info.  
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spiritair97
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:51 am

It seems that EWR is also getting a lot of a319s and a320s. It seems that sCO's fleet is better-suited for sUA, and visa versa. EWR is now chock-full of E-170s!
 
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:52 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
Are they shifting the pilot bases?


The 737 Captains I know are not moving bases that I have heard.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
Basically as I understand it, IAH is not filling its 738s or 9s consistently


That is an interesting comment, since every B738 or 9 that I've been on in the last 10 years from IAH has been either full or just about full, and the guys I know who fly them say the same thing. I know I'm not on every flight nor are they, but what's your source?
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AirframeAS
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):
Are the systems that divergent still?

As I understand it, they are still separate. I am not a lead, btw, and the leads are the ones who do all the scanning.
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COflyerBOS
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:47 am

I've used IAH as a transit hub for nearly two decades. It's rare to find flights that aren't booked in my experience. I've flown to BOS, EWR, LGA, DCA, PIT, RDU, MCO, MIA, TPA, VPS, MOB, MSY, SHV, AUS, DAL, SAT, SJT, ELP, OKC, TUL, ORD, CLE, CVG, DEN, MTJ, COS, PHX, TUC, LAS, SAN, LAX, SFO, SEA, PDX, HNL, MEX, CUN, CZM, BJX, PVR, ZIH, ACA, PTY, CCS, EZE, GIG, GRU, LHR, and NRT.

Not scientific by any means but I'd like to see where IAH isn't filling planes...
 
gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
Are they shifting the pilot bases?

I hear there is a new pilot base for each in the cities affected, but a lot of the flights will go IAH-TPA-ORD-TPA-IAH, par example.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13):
I also don't really understand the Shift on the A320s. I guess the 16 seat difference is significant for UA.

Its less. 144 vs 154 in the Y+ config. Also, the A320 (wait for it) has better SFP than the non-SFP 738 so that is driving some of the choices (like EWR-SXM).

And you're right, it does make a difference. That 10 seats is a lot of revenue if a flight is going out totally full every day and those 10 seats can always be filled.

Plus, there's the IFE thing.

NS
 
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cosyr
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:37 am

What is the effect on the 737's at DEN altitude. I know UA got the IAE engines primarily for the extra trust from DEN (same with HP in PHX for heat, which I suppose effects IAH, but not an issue due to humidity). Obviously 737's can fly DEN, as CO flew them there as long as they've had them, but does it not make sense to keep more of your high trust engines in your one hub that is most in need of thrust?
 
gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:46 am

I don't know a whole lot about crossfleeting to DEN yet - but DEN was one of the hardest hit by the retirement of the 737 fleet originally. I guess it all depends on what they can make work.

UA got IAE engines because they would never purchase another GE product. That's clearly changed. But the A319s are the ones with the thrusty engines - the A320s have the standard 27k.

Back in ye olde day, DEN and ORD were the ones with the 737 fleet, and plenty of runway and a relatively mid-Continent location means DEN will likely get a 738 even as far afield as BOS with a completely full load. I don't see a big problem.

NS
 
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:09 am

sCO 737 pilot bases open in DEN and ORD with some expansion in LAX

sUA opens 757/767 and 320 pilot bases in IAH.
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:10 pm

Any idea if ROC will be getting 737's (of any variation) from ORD ?
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777ord
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 22):
sCO 737 pilot bases open in DEN and ORD with some expansion in LAX

beat me to it! Those bases become "live" the start of the SEPTEMBER Bid period. Sure, it brought down coverage in our main hubs, but it will make the long term affect of turning, delays, recrews way easier.

Just one more step in integrating this airline. Expect more to follow for bases.
 
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:38 pm

What about widebodies? When will we see 3 class sUA aircraft start to move from IAD, SFO to other hubs like IAH and EWR. I believe there are 2, 3 class 767's from EWR to Zurich and Brussels. If United "owns" Asia then wouldn't they want to compete better in the NYC area with a 3 class 777, where they would actually sell Global First seats? In fact any flights to APAC from their hubs.
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warreng24
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:42 pm

I'm looking at the schedule on united.com right now (8/25) and I don't see any additional aircraft changes that weren't already previously loaded.

Any idea what/where the changes are (ie dates/routes/flight numbers)?
 
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STT757
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Any examples yet? I found this which looked interesting, nice bump in capacity.

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kgaiflyer
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:16 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 16):
That is an interesting comment, since every B738 or 9 that I've been on in the last 10 years from IAH has been either full or just about full, and the guys I know who fly them say the same thing. I know I'm not on every flight nor are they, but what's your source?

Yeah -- I fly sCO and sUA about 50-50 (93 segments so far this year) and notice that neither subsidiary has empty seats lying around.

On what route are these odd load factors happening?
 
T5towbar
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Why would the ramp guys not be happy? More bags to toss?

Using Cobra/Shares on the 737's and having to follow what the CO loadplanners want is a major pain in the butt for those guys so it is a "nightmare" for them. On the sUA aircraft, it is lead discretion on how the plane is loaded.

Leads want the same flexibility when loading a sCO aircraft as if it was a sUA aircraft.

It's a pain for everybody on both sides. It's because the way the sCO plans the load, especially with the 900 and the tail tip. It's loading in reverse of what you would normally do, so the CLP makes sense in a way. Shares is not that hard, and the CLP is generated. A lead still has discretion on what to cut, etc. But the learning curve is the same as us sCO people having to use Unimatic.. The scanner (COBRA side) will have the flight info on the scanner as well. (But I thought we were using UScan on all aircraft including Express) You can also close out from the scanner as well. I hear in DEN you have kiosks on the ramp where you use Unimatic. We don't have that luxury at EWR and have to go into a breakroom to close out. That's a pain.

Hopefully when all of this is settled on the tech side, it would be as smooth for both sides.

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tommy767
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:25 pm

9/13/12 for instance:

EWR-MIA: 3x sUA 757, 1x sCO 739

A definite bump in capacity.
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 30):
EWR-MIA: 3x sUA 757, 1x sCO 739

Damnit. I fly to MIA allllllll the time, and I intentionally take UA1086 because it's a PMCO 757. I don't love the 737s.

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tommy767
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 31):

I flew EWR-MIA on UA this past April on a sUA version. Other than the pissed off crew and a delay, it was a great ride. Enjoy them out of EWR as they are way better than the 738 or 739
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gigneil
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 28):
On what route are these odd load factors happening?

Its beyond our ability to understand the yield management system.

I doubt there are a ton of seats flying empty. I am betting that its a ratio of which seats make more money on which routes.

NS
 
spiritair97
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 25):

I don't think sUA's T7s have the legs to do EWR/IAD-Asia.


On a side note, will PVD be seeing 737s replacing a319s and a320s to ORD?
 
united
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 34):
I don't think sUA's T7s have the legs to do EWR/IAD-Asia.

... except that they do it every day from IAD

UA976 IAD-DXB (7069 mi)
UA897 IAD-PEK (6921 mi)
UA803 IAD-NRT (6753 mi)
UA982 IAD-KWI (6575 mi)

Maybe you're thinking of the A models?

United has two main subtypes of 777-200 that do overseas flying: the A and B (IGW) models. Although they are almost identical on the inside (with a few crew rest and lav differences), the B models tend to fly almost exclusively to Asia and operate longer routes to Eurpoe and sometimes South America. The A models tend to stick to IAD/ORD-Europe and sometiems South America, with scant appearances on SEA-NRT.
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 34):
I don't think sUA's T7s have the legs to do EWR/IAD-Asia.

they surely do. I think what you are thinking about are the few 777-200 (Non-ER) models that UA has. But I asure they have quite a few ERs as well that are capable of most anything COs 777s are.
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 40):

Thanks, I fly to IAD or ORD from EWR to get GF on a 777 or 747. I wish they had an sUA 3 class bird from EWR to at least NRT and HKG! With the new menu it would be far more competitive with their Asian counterparts. "far more" not quite as good as SQ from EWR.
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AUSisAWESOME
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:35 pm

Looking at flight schedules, a lot of EWR-Texas flights (primarily AUS, DFW, SAT) have gotten 320s and 319s. Don't know where the 738's and 9's are going but they may be shifting from EWR (IAD, perhaps)?
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tommy767
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:39 pm

Quoting AUSisAwesome (Reply 38):

The cross fleeting can be so random. I don't know how they schedule it. One day in september EWR-DFW is all 737s, the next day 2-3 A32S
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avi8
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:44 pm

Where can I see the new schedule??
avi8
 
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:49 pm

I wonder how many routes out of IAH will be 757s
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kgaiflyer
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 41):
I wonder how many routes out of IAH will be 757s

Back on July 6th the last IAH-BWI flight of the day ( UA1268 ) was a 752. It's the first one I ever remember flying on that route.

Otherwise, IAH-EWR/LAX/ORD/SFO always have a 752 or 753.

[Edited 2012-08-25 16:09:08]
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:13 pm

I've noticed that from Nov 27 onwards IAD-LAX is not only going from 10x to 8x but is also going 100% A32S, 5x 319 and 3x 320. That seems to be quite a large cut in capacity from the 752, 753, 738 and 739 (+ 1x 772) which is on the route prior to that date. Does anyone know if UA normally trims so much capacity off that route over winter? Off the top of my head they have - at the very least - kept the 777 over winter in previous years. If this isn't a "normal" season right-sizing exercise then what is coursing this sizeable capacity cut?
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YankeesFan
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:24 pm

Do the A32S have IFE because I am not too sure if they do.
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thegreatRDU
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:29 pm

Any word on RDU-SFO? will it go to a 737-900ER??
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RyanairGuru
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 44):
Do the A32S have IFE because I am not too sure if they do

Overhead video content, but not DirecTV like on the sCO frames
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YankeesFan
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 44):
Do the A32S have IFE because I am not too sure if they do

Overhead video content, but not DirecTV like on the sCO frames

Well the A32S needs refurbishments IMHO.
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akelley728
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 44):

Do the A32S have IFE because I am not too sure if they do.

They most certainly do. All A32S have overhead monitors with Hemispheres in-flight entertainment.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: The Big UA Crossfleeting Thread

Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:12 am

Quoting YankeesFan (Reply 47):
Well the A32S needs refurbishments IMHO.

I'm guessing complete refurbishment (which is suppose to include larger bin space) will have to wait until the end of the summer peak season.

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