Gonzalo
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FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:39 am

This could be a big change in the way we enjoy our flights, although is still in the first steps...
With the big number of Electronic devices of all kind we have now, it makes sense to revise the rules.

http://atwonline.com/international-a...-group-study-inflight-ped-use-0827


Rgds.

G.
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RKSofACinUSA
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:30 pm

This one is a real can of worms. On one hand, it's a bit ridiculous for me to be able to read my paper book during take-off and the person next to me is told to turn off their Nook. If they decide that Readers are no danger, where do they draw the line? There is an argument that it is not the technology that is a danger, it is the lack of attention of the passengers during a critical time in the flight. But if this is true, shouldn't I be told to put away my paper book during take-off and landing too?
 
silentbob
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:37 pm

Technically, all items are supposed to be stowed for takeoff, including books, papers, food, etc...
 
RKSofACinUSA
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:50 pm

Yeah, technically  
 
PHLBOS
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:54 pm

As long as these relaxations do not lift the ban on in-flight cell phone use; I, personally, have no issue w/such.
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travelin man
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:58 pm

So many people don't even turn their phones off anyways, just put them in "black screen" mode to make them look like they are off. Just take a look around you the next time you land somewhere. Right at touchdown people are on their phones immediately, and no phone "turns on" that quickly!

Plus I wonder how the use of Ipads/tablets in the cockpit by the crews may be forcing a change in the policy as well.
 
Gonzalo
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:33 pm

I will be happy with something so simple as not being forced to turn off and seal my camera during climb out and approach.
I missed very good pictures/films and opportunities of good catches just because this ban of "NO EPD", and I found a little ridiculous that I can have my little handy-cam turned on. It doesn't emit any kind of signal capable of doing any interference to the airplane's systems, and as long it is in my hands the chance of the camera being dangerous to others around me is zero.

Rgds.
G.
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Tugger
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 4):
As long as these relaxations do not lift the ban on in-flight cell phone use; I, personally, have no issue w/such.

Don't worry, they can't relax or change that. I read that the cell phone ban is via the FCC and not under the control of the FAA and so not part of the review.

I fully understand the "attention" and "objects need to stowed" aspect of the requirements. Those two apsects in particular are critical. Without going into my views on the topic, this review will at least address the issue of how much of an impact the in cabin electronics have on the performance of the aircraft. I suspect they will keep most of the rules in place "just to be safe" but we will have to wait and see.

For now, I look forward to a vigorous A.net debate where we blast each other for our ridiculous views that "electronics do not affect the plane or cockpit" or "electronic devices can greatly impact the electronic systems of a plane and they must be controlled"         

Tugg
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PHX787
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):

For now, I look forward to a vigorous A.net debate where we blast each other for our ridiculous views that "electronics do not affect the plane or cockpit" or "electronic devices can greatly impact the electronic systems of a plane and they must be controlled"

Tugg

I just wish the FAA would watch that mythbusters episode  
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Maverick623
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 5):
So many people don't even turn their phones off anyways, just put them in "black screen" mode to make them look like they are off. Just take a look around you the next time you land somewhere. Right at touchdown people are on their phones immediately, and no phone "turns on" that quickly!

I keep my cell phone on in flight, albeit in flight mode. When the 10K chime comes on, I put it away until we turn onto the taxiway. Flight mode goes off, and I don't have to wait 5 minutes for my phone to turn on.

No harm, no foul.
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jetblue32
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:49 am

Stated in article: 'Cell phone use for voice communications in flight will not be part of the study.'- Thank God!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:15 am

As I stated in the comments section, the most critical need for continuous PED use is actually for medical PEDs such as Portable Oxygen Concentrators (POCs), nebulizers, pulse oxymeters, and other such medical devices that currently require individual manufacturers petition both the DOT and the individual air carriers avionics engineering departments for approval since there are no uniform testing standards.

Also, the "distracted passenger" argument is a flawed one; customers are not required to give their undivided attention during safety briefings, so restricting them from using a PED during safety-critical phases of flight won't keep passengers from reading books, magazines, having conversations with seatmates, or even sleeping - all things that will keep them having situational awareness.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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zkokq
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:24 am

Quoting jetblue32 (Reply 10):
Stated in article: 'Cell phone use for voice communications in flight will not be part of the study.'- Thank God!

I dont think you can get cell phone reception at 35,000ft? Atleast not without some extra technology. Pretty much once youre above 10,000ft you cant get reception here in Oz. Not with Telstra (main carrier in Australia) anyway.
 
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Tugger
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting zkokq (Reply 12):
I dont think you can get cell phone reception at 35,000ft? Atleast not without some extra technology.

That's only 5 miles up, so only 5 miles or so miles from a cell tower and the signal can cover that distance. Across the plains the big cell towers seem to be every three to five miles or so. Of course it may may be more for Australia. As I understand it, the speed and the switching from one tower to the next screws up the ground network a bit (a least it did in the early years).

Tugg
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rwessel
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:29 am

Quoting tugger (Reply 7):
Don't worry, they can't relax or change that. I read that the cell phone ban is via the FCC and not under the control of the FAA and so not part of the review.

The only part that the FCC cares about is the radio connection to the cellular network. The 4G networks no longer have a special voice channel (as did 3G and earlier), and all calls using 4G are basically some variation of VoIP. Most (at least higher end) 4G phones will happily make VoIP calls over a WiFi connection. So if the aircraft had WiFi service, phone calls over that would be of no interest to the FCC.

Quoting zkokq (Reply 12):
I dont think you can get cell phone reception at 35,000ft? Atleast not without some extra technology. Pretty much once youre above 10,000ft you cant get reception here in Oz. Not with Telstra (main carrier in Australia) anyway.

While the antennas are focused somewhat horizontally, you shouldn't have any trouble connecting to a cell tower at any altitude a commercial aircraft will by flying at. Being inside a metal tube will impact reception some, but probably the biggest issue is speed - the switching process between cells is not that fast (basically the base stations wait a bit to see if you've really moved into their cell), and at high speeds, you're often going to transit cells in near the interval it takes the base station to get you connected. And speeds tend to go up above 10kft, after all.

So next time you want to make a call, ask the pilot to slow down.   
 
fat-g4
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:35 am

How many people here on A.net have used there camera on T/O and landing? I bet 90% of us are guilty!
 
PHX787
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting fat-g4 (Reply 15):
How many people here on A.net have used there camera on T/O and landing? I bet 90% of us are guilty!

I've gotten yelled at numerous times for doing so  
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Maverick623
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting zkokq (Reply 12):
I dont think you can get cell phone reception at 35,000ft?

Sure you can. The problem is that you get too much service, tying up multiple slots, and also moving too fast to keep a reliable connection.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 14):

While the antennas are focused somewhat horizontally, you shouldn't have any trouble connecting to a cell tower at any altitude a commercial aircraft will by flying at.

Exactly.

The workaround is pretty simple, and is already in use on some airlines: have the tower on the plane. It works just like the wi-fi: you put a mini cell site on the plane, and then use a different, dedicated transmitter to communicate with base stations on the ground. There's the issue of interference with the airplanes systems, but workarounds are slowly being devised and tested.
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FI642
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:02 am

I agree that more electronic devices should be allowed , however I also agree thar cell phones should not be allowed. Ever.
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BEG2IAH
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RE: FAA Studying Allow More Use Of Electronic Devices

Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting fat-g4 (Reply 15):
How many people here on A.net have used there camera on T/O and landing? I bet 90% of us are guilty!

If I said no I would say a lie.