bueb0g
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Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:10 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFLF0ox27_k&feature=player_embedded

Crazy. Air Uganda MD-80 starts its takeoff roll from Nairobi with a clean wing. Looks like the crew only deploy flaps after adding power and getting the config warning.

Is this a way of checking the T/O config warning, or is this just a complete mess up? If it's the former, then it's a very novel way of doing it...

[Edited 2012-08-28 14:11:40]
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faddypainter
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:32 pm

Thank god the warning breaker hadn't been pulled or this could have easily been another Spanair 5022...
 
wjcandee
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:54 pm

I didn't hear a config horn on the video. (This makes sense because the videographer is sitting in one of the last rows.) However, for the poster to say that it was only deployed after the config horn really seems like speculation. I do note that the flap actuation does not come immediately upon advancement of the throttles. But it of course takes a few seconds to react...

OTOH, how do we know that the original intent was not to take off slats-only? I can't see the slats move on this video.
 
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falstaff
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:54 pm

Quoting bueb0g (Thread starter):
Is this a way of checking the T/O config warning

I guess it could be, but I am sure there is a way of checking its operation without starting takeoff.

Quoting bueb0g (Thread starter):
or is this just a complete mess up?

I bet it is a screwup.
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AR385
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:55 pm

I thought that if yo get the T/O config warning at any point then you have to abort the take-off immediately and ask questions later. Assuming this does not happen after V1 but it is inhibited after 80knts, isn´t it?

So I believe it is a "complete mess up". And more messed up because they did not stop.
 
AR385
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 2):
OTOH, how do we know that the original intent was not to take off slats-only?

Can the MD-80s do slats only takeoffs? Do you actually have the option up front of exending the slats only and not the flaps?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:23 pm

This is a total screw up, and they were very lucky not to kill everyone on board, including the chap who filmed and uploaded this clip, who is a valued member of our community and regular contributor to these forums.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 2):
OTOH, how do we know that the original intent was not to take off slats-only?

There is a "Flaps 0" (slats only) setting on the Mad Dog (and on the DC-10 / MD-11) but I don't know if it's a takeoff setting. If it is, it sure won't work at Nairobi, which is the very definition of "Hot and high" which degrades performance a lot.

I hope the authorities get wind of this.
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Acey559
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:01 am

Watching it, this is my Monday morning quarterback assumption. First, no, advancing the thrust levers on the runway ready for takeoff is not the proper way to test the takeoff config warning. Second, to me this was a blatant error. You can hear the engines spool up a bit and then the aircraft starts to roll. The thrust levers are advanced a bit more and I bet this is when they got the warning because the flaps are extended. After they're configured and the warning goes out, the thrust levers are advanced further. I have a feeling the pilots know what they did, and they're lucky but to answer an earlier question, they absolutely should have aborted as soon as they got the warning. I in no way know exactly what happened here, but I'm making an educated guess based on my experiences.
 
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 6):
There is a "Flaps 0" (slats only) setting on the Mad Dog (and on the DC-10 / MD-11) but I don't know if it's a takeoff setting.

Beyond testing, what is the purpose of this setting? Under what circumstance would you want a slat-only takeoff?
 
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longhauler
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 3):
but I am sure there is a way of checking its operation without starting takeoff.

On every aircraft I have flown that has a take-off configuration warning, also has a "take-off warning" button which is pushed during the pre take-off checks. It simulates throttle advancement, thus activating any take off warning should there be one.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 2):
OTOH, how do we know that the original intent was not to take off slats-only?

My guess would be because flaps were extended after partial throttle advance. If the original intent was a flapless take-off, I can't imagine changing one's mind at that point.

If you watch the video, you see flaps extended after the thrust was partially advanced, then after flaps extended, the remaining thrust looks like it was then added. It almost appears (opinion only), that the thrust was advanced to the point of the take-off warning, then it sounded, they assessed why, extended the flaps, then when the warning stopped they continued advancing to take-off thrust, and continued the take-off.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 6):
I hope the authorities get wind of this.

I don't know what safety reporting system exists in Uganda, but hopefully so ... there is something to be learned here. If take-off flaps were not extended, then for some reason, the crew became distracted. It happens, and it will happen again. And .. it is NOT a third world issue, as exactly that has happened to Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines.

That is the main reason the Take-Off Configuration Warning System can not be MELed inop.
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SJCMSP
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:55 am

I had the exact same thing happen to me in 2005 flying PHL-MSP on a NW DC-9 (not sure if it was a -30, -40 or -50). I was sitting in a very similar place to the shooter of this video as well. I could not tell if the slats were deployed or not (this was before I realized that the slats make a thud that is felt on the whole plane when on the ground). It made me more than a little nervous and I wondered if there was anything I could do. I was rather relieved when I saw the flaps extend as we began the takeoff roll. I was in MI on vacation with my family in 1987 when that NW flight went down. That was certainly on my mind.

I had a second experience on a NW DC-9 in 2008 (I believe a -30) flying from GRR-MSP. We were taking of in the middle of a fierce snowstorm and we actually took off without the flaps extended. Again, I wasn't sure of the position of the slats as I got stuck in an aisle seat. In addition, the pilot ran the engines hard for about 15 minutes before we de-iced and he explained that he was getting our takeoff weight down. Is there a reason he would have taken off flaps up in a snowstorm?

[Edited 2012-08-28 17:57:49]
 
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Acey559
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:11 am

Quoting SJCMSP (Reply 10):

Not sure about a flaps up takeoff, but part of our ops during winter ops is to leave the flaps up until we approach the runway. That way deicing fluid doesn't get into the various crevices in the wing and also reduces the likelihood snow and ice will get kicked up and freeze in the flap tracks when we're taxiing around. A flapless takeoff certainly seems odd, though.
 
AR385
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:38 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 6):
including the chap who filmed and uploaded this clip, who is a valued member of our community and regular contributor to these forums.

I hope that chap had a change of pants and underwear then.
 
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):
On every aircraft I have flown that has a take-off configuration warning, also has a "take-off warning" button which is pushed during the pre take-off checks. It simulates throttle advancement, thus activating any take off warning should there be one.

Where is this button on the 767? I fly them and ours have no such button. In fact only one jet I have flown has had such a button.
 
ghifty
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:28 am

A little off-topic.. but are incidents like this why it (seems to be) Delta SOP to deploy flaps immediately after pushback?

This is just something I've noticed after flying with DL several times, and watching DL jets pushback at LAX.. they also all do a control surface "wiggle" after pushback.

[Edited 2012-08-28 20:30:16]
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F9Animal
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:47 am

If flaps/slats are not set on the MD80, can the aircraft still takeoff with added power? I recall Northwest 255 might have recovered if max power was added. Could be thinking of Air Florida 90, but I could swear I heard that about 255 also.
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flybynight
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:53 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 15):
If flaps/slats are not set on the MD80, can the aircraft still takeoff with added power? I recall Northwest 255 might have recovered if max power was added. Could be thinking of Air Florida 90, but I could swear I heard that about 255 also.

Maybe if all the runway was used and the plane rotates at very high speed. Man, I'd hate to find out.
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26point2
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:11 am

@Acey559

A no-flap takeoff is certified in many transport category jets, not sure about DC9, for improved single engine climb performance. A no-flap takeoff uses tons of runway but less drag equals better climb. Rarely needed but operationally has its advantage.
 
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:38 am

Quoting 3holer (Reply 13):
Where is this button on the 767? I fly them and ours have no such button. In fact only one jet I have flown has had such a button.

Actually the older B767s in our fleet are the only ones that don't have a Take-Off Configuration warning button.

The newer ones have an "Eicas Take-off Warning Notice", but for fleet commonality, (within the B767s) it is not used in our SOPs, in fact it might even have been deactivated, I haven't "played" with it in a while.

All of the rest of the fleet, E175/E190, A320 series, A330/A340 and B777s are so equipped, and its use is in the SOPs.
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AR385
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:58 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 15):
f flaps/slats are not set on the MD80, can the aircraft still takeoff with added power?

In a normal takeoff, with normal V1 and VR, you will probably drag the tail for a while and may get off the ground, but once out of ground effect you are probably coming back down.
 
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:09 am

I doesn't look like a screw up to me, but more like a technique (improper) of the pilot advancing the throttles to start spooling up the engines as they are completing the checklist. I am basing that on the fact that you also see them turn on and extend the landing lights just prior to bringing the throttles up and the slow roll started.
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:14 am

Having flown the 80 series, I can say with 100% certainty that this was a royal screw up.

The engines spool quite slow on the airplane, and you don't get the fan "buzz" sound until well into the config warning range.

They were set at takeoff power when the flaps deployed, so this was certainly a mistake thankfully corrected by the warning horn.
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pvjin
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:36 am

Yeah saw that video soon after it was uploaded as I have subscribed flymajj as he uploads many amazing videos from all kinds of interesting airlines and plane models.

Scary stuff indeed, I wonder if this was a screw up or if they were testing warning horn...

[Edited 2012-08-28 22:48:47]
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:47 am

Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
wjcandee
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 20):
I am basing that on the fact that you also see them turn on and extend the landing lights just prior to bringing the throttles up and the slow roll started.

Typical to turn on landing lights when cleared for takeoff...
 
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:03 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 22):
Scary stuff indeed, I wonder if this was a screw up or if they were testing warning horn...

The config warning is checked that it sounds in preflight, and most carriers you go full forward on the thrust levers momentarily to check that you haven't forgotten something that triggers the warning before takeoff.

Actually applying takeoff power and getting it (which is what happened here) is the most grave of no-no's. In this case, they cut through every thread on the rope keeping them from killing everyone aboard. Luckily, one strand held....
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UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:54 am

I did not even notice this when I was filming it, which I suppose is a good thing really! I only noticed later when reviewing my video in the evening.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 22):
Yeah saw that video soon after it was uploaded as I have subscribed flymajj as he uploads many amazing videos from all kinds of interesting airlines and plane models.

Thank you very much.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 17):

Interesting info, thanks!
 
abrown532
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:35 am

Perhaps because the flight was very empty the captain thought they could takeoff without flaps.
 
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:48 pm

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 17):

Referring back to the take off I experienced in GRR, is there a reason they may have done this in a snowstorm?
 
bueb0g
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 28):

Perhaps because the flight was very empty the captain thought they could takeoff without flaps.

Doesn't make any sense... If that were the case, they wouldn't have deployed flaps during the roll. In any case, the MD-80 isn't rated for slats only TO... In any case, it isn't a gun-it-and-see situation, proper calculations are (meant) to be carried out, the crew isn't going to change their minds on the takeoff roll...
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:41 pm

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 28):
Perhaps because the flight was very empty the captain thought they could takeoff without flaps.

Unless its certified to do so he/she should not even consider it! Thank god the warning horn appeared to do its job as the consequences could have potentially been terrible.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:42 pm

I landed at OSL the other on an SK 737-600 from ARN and the captain extended the flaps only to retract them and extend them again a few minutes later. Was very confusing! Not similar but still, maybe some pilots use trial and error to determine flap settings.
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longhauler
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 32):
I landed at OSL the other on an SK 737-600 from ARN and the captain extended the flaps only to retract them and extend them again a few minutes later. Was very confusing! Not similar but still, maybe some pilots use trial and error to determine flap settings.

Normally the proposed flap setting for landing is decided before descent is even started, as speeds are determined and either set with bugs, or entered into the FMS.

If flaps went up and down as you noted, likely it is ATC changing speed instructions, and the speed changes were on either side of the required flap setting.
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AA777223
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting 3holer (Reply 13):
Where is this button on the 767? I fly them and ours have no such button. In fact only one jet I have flown has had such a button.

If you fly them, shouldn't you know that? I maybe woefully mistaken, but I was under the impression that for all the years and years of training and experience it took to fly a widebody, you knew what every switch, button, toggle and display in that cockpit was for. It's a very selective career, and I just assumed the only ones who made it to the front were the ones who knew those machines inside and out. No condescension intended.
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bueb0g
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:10 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 34):
If you fly them, shouldn't you know that? I maybe woefully mistaken, but I was under the impression that for all the years and years of training and experience it took to fly a widebody, you knew what every switch, button, toggle and display in that cockpit was for. It's a very selective career, and I just assumed the only ones who made it to the front were the ones who knew those machines inside and out. No condescension intended.

I don't understand your point here... 3holer was saying that the 767s that he flies has no such button, so yes, he knows his plane just fine, which is why he was surprised when someone else stated that most a/c had it.
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:14 pm

Quoting bueb0g (Reply 35):

I don't understand your point here... 3holer was saying that the 767s that he flies has no such button, so yes, he knows his plane just fine, which is why he was surprised when someone else stated that most a/c had it.

As I tried to say as delicately as possible so as to not imply that he didn't know his aircraft, I don't understand how he could not know whether or not such a thing exists. As some have even said, it does exist in some models. It seems odd to hear a certified pilot of an aircraft say, "Where is that button?" It just seemed he would know definitely one way or another whether it was there or not. Just like I said, I may be woefully mistaken.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 18):
Actually the older B767s in our fleet are the only ones that don't have a Take-Off Configuration warning button.

The newer ones have an "Eicas Take-off Warning Notice", but for fleet commonality, (within the B767s) it is not used in our SOPs, in fact it might even have been deactivated, I haven't "played" with it in a while.

All of the rest of the fleet, E175/E190, A320 series, A330/A340 and B777s are so equipped, and its use is in the SOPs.


[Edited 2012-08-29 08:15:27]
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 36):
As I tried to say as delicately as possible so as to not imply that he didn't know his aircraft, I don't understand how he could not know whether or not such a thing exists.
Quoting 3holer (Reply 13):
Where is this button on the 767?

You may want to reread 3holer's post. I took his question as direct sarcasm. Not all aircraft have takeoff config warning test switches on the flight deck. The only aircraft I've worked on that had it for pilot use was the 727 and it was used as a part of the taxi check SOP. The 737's I worked on didn't have a flight deck test switch either. The 757's I work on now have takeoff config and landing config warning test switches on the P61 panel but it's for maintenance use only and the crew never touch it. They probably aren't even trained to know what it does.

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FlyMKG
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting boeingfixer (Reply 37):
The only aircraft I've worked on that had it for pilot use was the 727 and it was used as a part of the taxi check SOP.

At my airline we check the 727s horn before every takeoff. After the Captain has called for the takeoff flaps to be set, the First Officer moves the flap lever to the desired setting then raises the speedbrakes. Once the speedbrakes are raised the FO pushes the FLT CONTROL WARNING TEST switch to the SAFETY RELAY BYPASS position to activate the horn. After the horn sounds twice the Capt stows the speedbrakes causing the horn to be silenced. The FO then waits a second or two and releases the switch.

The switch is located on the left side of the overhead panel below the Hydraulic Power and Yaw Damper switches.

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bueb0g
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 36):

As I tried to say as delicately as possible so as to not imply that he didn't know his aircraft, I don't understand how he could not know whether or not such a thing exists. As some have even said, it does exist in some models. It seems odd to hear a certified pilot of an aircraft say, "Where is that button?" It just seemed he would know definitely one way or another whether it was there or not. Just like I said, I may be woefully mistaken.

How should he know the exact equipment installed on other airline's aircraft? He knows his own, and knows there isn't such a button on the frames his airline flies. It's not really a safety concern if he's unaware of that button installed on other airline's 767s. If he worked for an airline who's 767s had the button installed, he'd know about it.

Although as Boeingfixer says, we may both be misinterpreting 3holer's post.

In any case, qualified pilots know the a/c they fly very well.
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3holer
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 34):
If you fly them, shouldn't you know that? I maybe woefully mistaken, but I was under the impression that for all the years and years of training and experience it took to fly a widebody, you knew what every switch, button, toggle and display in that cockpit was for. It's a very selective career, and I just assumed the only ones who made it to the front were the ones who knew those machines inside and out. No condescension intended.

You might want to look up condescending in the dictionary again, you missed the mark.

The entire fleet 767's (-200's and -300's, all from different initial customers) at my airline has no such button to check the T/O Configuration Warning prior to takeoff. I was merely asking because at no point have I ever heard mention of such a button during my training on the aircraft. I guess it's possible that it could be a customer option.

I did fly the ERJ-170/190 which did have such a button, which was pressed prior to every takeoff and would give an aural "Takeoff OK" or "No takeoff Flaps, No Takeoff Trim, etc." if the aircraft was not configured properly.

I assure you I am very well trained and qualified to perform my job.
 
KC10Guy
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:30 pm

I cannot speak much for the MD series but on our KC-10 (DC10-30F) the Take off warning horn system has no lights or buttons. Just a horn. I check it during pre-flight (not on the take-off) and it has several things that set it off. Ours however has no take-off flap setting warning, just a slat setting and that is what I check during pre-flight by pushing #1 throttle full forward and back, and then #2 and #3 at the same time.

Also as far as landing goes, we have two flap settings that can normally be used, as well with landing slats that are controlled in-sync with the flap handle (the two handles move together).

Flaps 5-25 (dial a flap) and take-off slats= Take-off range.

Flaps 35/50 (no dial a flap) and landing slats= Landing range.

Again, I have no experience in other Airliners or even commercial DC-10's, but I thought I would share since the models are fairly similar.
 
tjcab
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting 3holer (Reply 40):
You might want to look up condescending in the dictionary again, you missed the mark.

The entire fleet 767's (-200's and -300's, all from different initial customers) at my airline has no such button to check the T/O Configuration Warning prior to takeoff. I was merely asking because at no point have I ever heard mention of such a button during my training on the aircraft. I guess it's possible that it could be a customer option.

I did fly the ERJ-170/190 which did have such a button, which was pressed prior to every takeoff and would give an aural "Takeoff OK" or "No takeoff Flaps, No Takeoff Trim, etc." if the aircraft was not configured properly.

I assure you I am very well trained and qualified to perform my job.

...and if someone should attack in such a manner, they should have their own facts right and worded correctly. The point we believe you were making about the "button"

I could be wrong that Airbus aircraft have this too. I don't think there is an audible confirmation but rather a visual on the EICAS. I don't even think the mighty 777's have such a button, again please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
slimshady
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:37 pm

isnt that a 717? not an MD-80 series? The wing seems to far back, or too close to the engine to be a MD-80. On an MD-80, there seems to be more distance between the wing and the engine..
 
bueb0g
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting slimshady (Reply 43):
isnt that a 717?

No. Definitely an MD-80; for one, Air Uganda don't have any 717's...
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yeelep
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting slimshady (Reply 43):

Per Air Uganda website, it is a MD-87.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:51 pm

Quoting 3holer (Reply 40):
You might want to look up condescending in the dictionary again, you missed the mark.

I was trying, very specifically not to imply that I knew more than you. I was trying not to sound like I was "talking down" to anyone by my question. I think my actions (or attempted aversion thereof) fairly well fit the definition of condescending.

1.
to behave as if one is conscious of descending from a superior position, rank, or dignity.
2.
to stoop or deign to do something:

Your questions just seemed odd to me, given the context of the discussion. I didn't know warning chimes and horns were considered "optional" on any aircraft. I know there are a vast array of customer specific options. However, I did not think alerts, warnings and tests of such equipment qualified. I have no doubt you are fully prepared to do your job. As I said, I know it is a very selective career, requiring years of preparation. It just seemed odd to hear you ask if something (which sounds fairly common according to other comments) existed on an aircraft you are certified to fly. I don't know how else to apologize or more lightly to tread. I clearly misunderstood your question.
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longhauler
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:58 pm

Quoting 3holer (Reply 40):
The entire fleet 767's (-200's and -300's, all from different initial customers) at my airline has no such button to check the T/O Configuration Warning prior to takeoff. I was merely asking because at no point have I ever heard mention of such a button during my training on the aircraft. I guess it's possible that it could be a customer option.

That is the way I read your original request. Every aircraft is different, although it looks the same on the outside, just about every B767 built for different customers differs.

When I was a B767 F/O there was no such test/button, as I only flew B767s built for one airline, CP. After the merger with AC, and now a B767 Captain, with their (our) array of differing B767s, (but all B767-300ERs!) some have it and some don't.

Quoting 3holer (Reply 40):
I assure you I am very well trained and qualified to perform my job.

I found your question to be perfectly acceptable, and if I had only flown the exCP B767s I would likely have asked it as well. I am quite certain you are well trained, that is why you asked the question. If there were some doubt, then you probably would not have asked it.

Unofrtunately, some that really don't understand the job, like to question the capability of pilots.

Quoting TJCAB (Reply 42):
I could be wrong that Airbus aircraft have this too. I don't think there is an audible confirmation but rather a visual on the EICAS. I don't even think the mighty 777's have such a button, again please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, from the A310 onward the test was a part of the ECAM system. And as it produces a "warning" not just a caution, it is both audible and visual. Our B777s also have such a test button ... likely a function of being late build aircraft and a customer option.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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longhauler
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 25):
Actually applying takeoff power and getting it (which is what happened here) is the most grave of no-no's.

In my opinion, the biggest no-no wasn't that he got the warning, but that he continued the take-off. When the flaps were extended, he wasn't moving very quickly, very very early in the take-off. What I would have done is brought the thrust back to idle and exited the runway then asked ... "OK, what did we do wrong?"

Even if one were 100% certain, clearly there was a time of distraction that caused the error in the first place.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 25):
In this case, they cut through every thread on the rope keeping them from killing everyone aboard. Luckily, one strand held....

And that says it perfectly!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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sturmovik
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RE: Scary MD-80 Vid - Flaps Deployed On Takeoff

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:19 pm

Off topic, but did anyone else notice the L-1011 parked on the ramp at 01:15? Looked interesting.. any idea what it's doing at NBO?
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