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enilria
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OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:21 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".


4M MIA-EZE SEP 1.0>1.8 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2

9K SJU-NEV DEC 1.0>1.3 JAN 1.0>1.5 FEB 1.0>1.6 MAR 1.0>1.6 APR 1.0>1.5
9K SJU-STX DEC 6>4 JAN 8>3 FEB 8>3 MAR 8>3 APR 8>3
9K SJU-VQS DEC 9>8 JAN 9>8 FEB 9>8 MAR 9>8 APR 9>8
9K STT-STX JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6 MAR 5>6 APR 5>6
9K STX-SJU DEC 6>4 JAN 8>3 FEB 8>3 MAR 8>3 APR 8>3
9K STX-VQS DEC 0.5>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
9K VQS-SJU DEC 8>9 JAN 8>9 FEB 8>9 MAR 8>9 APR 8>9

*AA MIA-RTB DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.2 APR 0>0.1

AC PDX-YYC SEP 0.8>0.6

AF MIA-PAP NOV 0.7>0.5

AM BRO-MTY OCT 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0.3
AM DEN-MEX DEC 0.5>0.7
AM LAX-BJX DEC 0.5>0.4
AM LAX-GDL DEC 1.9>1.0 JAN 2>1.8
AM MCO-MEX DEC 1.6>3
AM MIA-CUN NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.1>0.3
AM SAT-MTY OCT 0.8>1.0 DEC 0.7>1.0
AM SMF-GDL NOV 0.6>0.7

AS LAX-MMH NOV 1.0>0.6

AT JFK-CMN APR 0>1.0

BA SFO-LHR DEC 1.7>1.5

BB SJU-EIS DEC 0>1.2 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
BB SJU-STT JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.7>0 MAR 1.6>0 APR 1.8>0
BB SJU-STX JAN 1.1>0 FEB 1.1>0 MAR 1.2>0 APR 1.1>0
BB SJU-VQS JAN 0.3>0 FEB 0.3>0 MAR 0.3>0 APR 0.3>0
BB SPB-SSB SEP 12>13 OCT 6>14 NOV 6>14 DEC 6>13 JAN 6>0 FEB 6>0 MAR 6>0 APR 6>0
BB STT-SJU JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0
BB STT-STX OCT 7>6 JAN 7>0 FEB 7>0 MAR 7>0 APR 7>0
BB STX-SJU SEP 3>1.6 OCT 3>1.6 NOV 3>1.6 DEC 3>1.6 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0
BB STX-VQS SEP 0.2>0.3 OCT 0.1>0.3 NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0
BB VQS-SJU SEP 0.2>0.3 OCT 0.1>0.3 NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0

DL ATL-GUA DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
DL ATL-MAN NOV 0.8>0.7 JAN 0.9>0.7 FEB 0.9>0.7
*DL DTW-PEK NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.5>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.6>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0
DL JFK-SDQ OCT 2>1.7
DL JFK-STI OCT 2>1.7

F9 MCO-TYS NOV 0.3>0.2

KE ROR-ICN APR 0>0.3

LA MHC-PMC NOV 0>0.2
LA MIA-LIM SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

MW HNM-OGG OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2 APR 0>2
MW OGG-HNM OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2 APR 0>2

Attention: we will now be rearranging the deck chairs. Amazing what they are doing in FLL.
*NK AZA-DEN OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?
*NK AZA-LAS OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
*NK DFW-TLC OCT 1.0>0.6 NOV 1.0>0.6 DEC 1.0>0.8
*NK DTW-ORD OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
NK FLL-CTG OCT 0.7>0.6
**NK FLL-KIN OCT 0.5>0.1 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR 0.5>0.2
NK FLL-MBJ NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2
*NK IAH-LAS OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
*NK IAH-ORD OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
*NK LAS-LAX NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2
*NK LAS-PDX NOV 2>1.2 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
*NK PDX-SAN NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

OZ EWR-SEA NOV 0.8>0.1 DEC 0.5>0.1
OZ SPN-KIX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

S3 MIA-CCS OCT 3>4

SV JFK-JED NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 JAN 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7

TN LAX-CDG APR 0.6>0.7
TN LAX-PPT APR 1.0>1.4

UA CLE-RSW JAN 1.2>2.0
UA DEN-ABQ JAN 6>5
UA DEN-BIS JAN 4>5
UA DEN-CPR JAN 4>5
UA DEN-DAL JAN 1.4>0.9
UA DEN-ELP JAN 3>4
UA DEN-HSV JAN 1.7>0.9
UA DEN-MEM JAN 1.7>0.9
UA DEN-MEX DEC 0.4>0.5
UA DEN-MSN JAN 3>4
*UA DEN-OGG JAN 0.2>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0
UA DEN-OKC JAN 5>4
UA DEN-PHL JAN 1.9>1.1
UA DEN-PSP JAN 4>3
UA DEN-RAP JAN 6>5
UA EWR-PTY DEC 1.1>1.3
UA EWR-PUJ DEC 1.2>1.3
UA EWR-YUL DEC 6>5
UA FLL-BIM SEP 1.0>0.8
UA FLL-ELH SEP 1.0>0.8
UA FLL-GGT SEP 1.0>0.8
UA FLL-GHB SEP 0>0.5
UA FLL-TCB SEP 1.0>0.6
UA IAD-MAD OCT 0.9>0.7
Wow, something positive in Houston :p
*UA IAH-TGZ SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>0.3
UA LAX-DEN JAN 8>7
UA LAX-YLW JAN 1.0>1.1 FEB 1.0>1.1 MAR 1.0>1.2
UA SEA-ANC DEC 3>2
UA SFO-DEN JAN 9>10

US CLT-AUA JAN 1.2>1.1 FEB 1.3>1.1 MAR 1.5>1.4 APR 1.4>1.2
US CLT-BZE FEB 0.4>0.2 MAR 0.6>0.3 APR 0.6>0.2
US CLT-CUN JAN 4>3
US CLT-CZM FEB 0.4>0.3 MAR 0.8>0.5 APR 0.7>0.4
US CLT-FCO APR 1.0>0
US CLT-NAS JAN 2>1.9 FEB 3>2
US CLT-PUJ MAR 3>1.9

Net up two slot pairs. I think US definitely got the F9 slots.
US DCA-ISP NOV 2.0>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3
US DCA-MCO OCT 6>7 NOV 6>7 DEC 6>7 JAN 6>7 FEB 6>7 MAR 6>7 APR 6>7
US DCA-NAS APR 1.1>1.0
US DCA-TLH NOV 0.9>1.9 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2
US DCA-YOW OCT 3>1.8 NOV 3>1.6 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2
US PHL-BDA FEB 0.9>0.7 MAR 1.0>0.9
US PHL-GCM APR 0.7>0.4
US PHL-NAS JAN 1.0>0.9 APR 1.3>1.1
US PHL-PLS APR 0.7>0.5
US PHL-VCE APR 1.0>0
US PHX-CUN JAN 1.3>1.1 FEB 1.3>1.1
*US PHX-GYM OCT 0.9>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0
US PHX-MZT FEB 1.8>1.4 MAR 3>1.6

VS MCO-LGW NOV 1.9>1.8 DEC 1.9>1.8 JAN 1.3>1.2 FEB 1.9>1.6 MAR 1.9>1.7
VS MCO-MAN JAN 1.4>1.2 FEB 1.3>1.2

WP ATL-MEI OCT 0>1.9 NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>1.8 JAN 0>1.9 FEB 0>1.9 MAR 0>1.8 APR 0>1.9
WP ATL-MSL OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-PIB OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3
WP GLH-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3

XL MIA-UIO SEP 1.0>1.8 OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2 JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2 APR 1.0>2

YV HNL-LIH NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9 MAR 8>9
YV LIH-HNL NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9 MAR 8>9
YV LIH-OGG SEP 1.4>1.0 OCT 1.4>1.0 NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0
YV OGG-LIH SEP 1.4>1.0 OCT 1.4>1.0 NOV 1.4>1.0 DEC 1.5>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.0 FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.0 APR 1.4>1.0
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11367
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA MHC-PMC NOV 0>0.2

This is almost certainly an error. PMC is Puerto Montt. MHC appears to be somewhere in Australia.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WP ATL-MSL OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-PIB OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3
WP GLH-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3

Interesting. MSL is currently tagged from TUP (on 9E ex-MEM; I think XJ did it the same way). Now, MSL gets its own service and GLH gets tagged from TUP. It may be more geography than anything else (ATL-TUP-MSL is a backtrack; MEM-TUP-GLH would have been a backtrack). Is DL going to sell tickets GLH-TUP?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
petteri
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:22 am

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:33 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Attention: we will now be rearranging the deck chairs. Amazing what they are doing in FLL.


**NK FLL-KIN OCT 0.5>0.1 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR 0.5>0.2
NK FLL-MBJ NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

Hmm, a couple of ideas here. Jetblue's enrance into the KIN market may now really be affecting them. Also the FLL Terminal Four renovation due to the south runway construction may be forcing them to relinquish gate space on at least a temporary basis. Although I'm not sure exactly what the schedule is for the construction is.

[Edited 2012-08-29 11:09:02]
The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK AZA-LAS OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

This is surprising. Maybe this is the clarification to the confusion of what's going down at AZA- the plane will O at AZA and D in DEN instead of LAS? Hmmmm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK AZA-DEN OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?

The PHX thread said that it's just 1 daily, and it's in the morning.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*US PHX-GYM OCT 0.9>0.6 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Covered previously, this apparently is because of the fact that no one wants to go here. Small airport, limited opportunities, etc etc drug gangs etc etc  


As always, thanks for the updates E!
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atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?
*NK AZA-LAS OCT 1.0>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

Spirit announced and started with 2 Daily Flights

http://ir.spirit.com/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=630880 (AZA-LAS announcement)

I note you use asterisks to explain some things that YOU find interesting, could you explain why they are interesting. Some of these changes are of no surprise to me yet you find them of interest. I just want to make sure I am not forgetting or completely overlooking the significant or interest in your words of a route change you asterisked.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
nkops
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

First of all, thanks as always for doing these threads!!!

Spirits loads were pretty bad on the AZA-LAS run (I get to see the load sheet everyday).... although AZA-DFW is doing pretty well... I think its a smart move to allocate that plane elsewhere, and DEN just might work.... I like the fact that if they cant make a route profitable, then leave it.... seems like smart business.
:evil:
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6139
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA MHC-PMC NOV 0>0.2

This is almost certainly an error. PMC is Puerto Montt. MHC appears to be somewhere in Australia.

No idea. It was marked as a USA op. I know nothing about it.

Quoting petteri (Reply 2):
Jetblue's enrance into the KIN market may now really be affecting them.

That's surprising because KIN is very poor. I'd think NK would be the right airline.

Quoting petteri (Reply 2):
Also the FLL Trerminal four renovation due to the south runway construction may be forcing them to relinquish gate space on at least a temporary basis.

I thought the construction was limited to domestic facilities.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
This is surprising. Maybe this is the clarification to the confusion of what's going down at AZA- the plane will O at AZA and D in DEN instead of LAS? Hmmmm

I guess, but why go mess with F9 while ending their messing with G4? Mixed signals.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK AZA-DEN OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Didn't they go in with 2 or 3 RTs?

The PHX thread said that it's just 1 daily, and it's in the morning.

No I was referring to AZA-LAS was supposed to be more than 1 rt and is now gone completely.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
As always, thanks for the updates E!

 
Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4):
I note you use asterisks to explain some things that YOU find interesting, could you explain why they are interesting. Some of these changes are of no surprise to me yet you find them of interest. I just want to make sure I am not forgetting or completely overlooking the significant or interest in your words of a route change you asterisked.

Well, I tend to mark routes that are completely dropped or added unless they are in tiny markets like MSL. I also tend to mark routes that are international and see "substantial" frequency change. I, personally, also tend to find the U.S. carriers more interesting than the foreign flags so I mark them less often. I could do more description, but other people complain that it gums up the data dump, so I try to make my comments brief.

Quoting nkops (Reply 5):
First of all, thanks as always for doing these threads!!!

 
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US PHL-VCE APR 1.0>0

Is this a seasonal route?
 
petteri
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:22 am

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
I thought the construction was limited to domestic facilities.

The entire terminal is going to be redone. The physical dimensions of the current terminal don't work with the layout of the expanded runway. The FLL plan can be seen, in part here (PDF)

http://www.broward.org/Airport/FLLai...ts/Boardupdatejune2012finalada.pdf
The above comments are my personal comments and in no way should be viewed as the views,policy or statements of JetBlue
 
boberito6589
Posts: 363
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:34 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7):

Is this a seasonal route?

yep, US was going to start several international flights earlier in 2013 but has elected to now start all flights at the same time that they began in 2012 thus the reduction in April for VCE
 
n782nc
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:31 pm

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

Am I the only person who noticed this? Is this route performing so well that they more than double the frequency?
Stairway to Seven
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11367
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
No idea. It was marked as a USA op. I know nothing about it.

My guess is that it's BRC-PMC, which they've flown in the past, but I have no idea how BRC becomes MHC and it's obviously not a US operation in any event. It'll be a cold day before PMC sees service to the States.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SANFan
Posts: 3665
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK LAS-PDX NOV 2>1.2 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
*NK PDX-SAN NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

I noticed this last night. Spirit is actually taking one of their PDX-LAS nonstops and, effective Nov 8, routing it via SAN. So although PDX is gaining a ROUTE on NK (SAN) they are not gaining a departure; they will remain at 3 daily departures -- 1 to Vegas, 1 to DFW, and the new one to SAN.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK LAS-LAX NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>2 APR 3>2

With this reduction at LAX, that means that since Spirit service started at all of their western stations, service to LAS has been reduced at each one:
LAX - most recently from 3 to 2 (I'm not sure what they started with between LAX and LAS or what the high was);
SAN - from 3 to 2;
OAK - from 3 to 2;
PDX - from 2 to 1;
PHX - from 2 to 0.

I don't know how the other destinations from LAS have fared but these reductions are noticable to me.

bb
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting N782NC (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

Am I the only person who noticed this? Is this route performing so well that they more than double the frequency?

Could be a duplicate. It's happened before that they forget to delete the existing flight when doing a schedule update. Wanna look on their site?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
No idea. It was marked as a USA op. I know nothing about it.

My guess is that it's BRC-PMC, which they've flown in the past, but I have no idea how BRC becomes MHC and it's obviously not a US operation in any event. It'll be a cold day before PMC sees service to the States.

OAG uses a 3 digit system to reference countries and states. The USA has the region less than 100 for all the territories and states. My guess us that MHC has no country assigned and that is treated as 0 which is less than 100 and thus put into the USA. Anyway, I'm sure it is a mistake.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:56 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

I think this has to do with construction at FLL

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
That's surprising because KIN is very poor.

Well PAP is pretty poor yet AA does very very well there. KIN is large enough that there is a big middle class, but those folks are very loyal to AA and now B6
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 14):
I think this has to do with construction at FLL

I guess I'm surprised a whole destination could be dropped due to construction. The airport is doing a crappy job if they are really to blame. 
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):
I guess I'm surprised a whole destination could be dropped due to construction. The airport is doing a crappy job if they are really to blame. 

Not the first time: DL temporarily dropped FWA-MSP in the fall of 2009 due in part to runway construction at MSP. It returned as a seasonal service in spring 2010, and was made permanent in 2011 after FWA-CVG was axed.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

Dropping service to the home of the most popular resort in the Bahamas by far (Atlantis) during peak season sounds fishy to me. NK could have dropped other routes from FLL instead of NAS.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
With this reduction at LAX, that means that since Spirit service started at all of their western stations, service to LAS has been reduced at each one:

That could be strategy and not that LAS has been so horrible. They start large and just fly alot of seats to get people to use them and offer more of the sale fares. Get alot of people to fly them and see its really not that bad etc etc spread the word to jump start the routes. I know several old people who still brag about their $9 fares out ACY and they havnt flowin years lol more people like that to spread the word. It gets them more exposure and gets more people to try you quickly to build a base especially on competative routes like LAS where WN has alot of people on lockdown.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

Dropping service to the home of the most popular resort in the Bahamas by far (Atlantis) during peak season sounds fishy to me. NK could have dropped other routes from FLL instead of NAS.

I agree it is fishy. Drop 1 RT to somewhere else rather than close NAS. I wonder if they will reverse this in coming weeks? Perhaps it is an attempt to shake down Atlantis for some money???

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
With this reduction at LAX, that means that since Spirit service started at all of their western stations, service to LAS has been reduced at each one:

That could be strategy and not that LAS has been so horrible. They start large and just fly alot of seats to get people to use them and offer more of the sale fares

It's probably a little of both, but they haven't cut DFW. LAS is clearly worse. Strange...
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 17):

"That could be strategy and not that LAS has been so horrible. They start large and just fly alot of seats to get people to use them and offer more of the sale fares. Get alot of people to fly them and see its really not that bad etc etc spread the word to jump start the routes. I know several old people who still brag about their $9 fares out ACY and they havnt flowin years lol more people like that to spread the word. It gets them more exposure and gets more people to try you quickly to build a base especially on competative routes like LAS where WN has alot of people on lockdown."

I think this is pretty close to spot on. Also I recall a situation early 2011 when Spirit first did their large, fast but incremental buildup of LAS, that if by a certain date ( I believe sometime in the late summer) airlines would be charged different lease rates based on their number of flights in and out, the more, the cheaper per flight. I recall 21 was a tier that meant much cheaper leases hence the addition of LAX x5 SAN x3 OAK x3 PDX x2 DFW x2 in addition to the existing ORD and DTW x3 (or 4 based on season) and FLL (seasonally)x1. I believe the intention was never to necessarily keep these frequencies on these particular routes but to shuffle them around as cities were added and also to overall add flights to LAS. It just wasnt possible to set up a bunch of new stations in such a short timeframe. We have seen the shuffling with additions of new stations like DEN, IAH, MSP, AZA (and it's drop from LAS) etc, but not necessarily overall additions in flights to LAS. 2 things at play there, 1) the huge success of DFW as not only an O and D station but also a connecting hub (largely trumps the need for Vegas as a connecting hub) and 2) just not quite the yields and performance NK was expecting from Vegas on some of these routes. I do believe that Vegas will overall be built up for Spirit, it just won't be the southwest like hub for them. Probably more along the lines of a single daily or less than daily frequency to larger (read non-Allegiant) markets.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 5):

NKOPS, Could you share with us what the DTW-ORD loads were? Im really shocked that Spirit is canceling that route, along with FLL NAS going down and AZA-LAS going down so quickly.

Also, how is DFW-DTW doing?
Thanks
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 20):

I think DTW-ORD was used mainly as a reposition flight to get the plane to ORD in the morning... I didn't pay too much attention to those loads.... I usually look at the newer flights and the flights out of my city

I do know AZA-LAS was not doing what Spirit hoped... their were several days where I saw loads not even hit 50%.

FLL-NAS kind of surprises me, however, if you have to cancel a flight due to construction, I guess a short haul would be the smartest where yields would probably be lowest... and NAS is still covered by other airlines.

From what I have seen, DFW-DTW is doing pretty well load wise....

****disclaimer***** although my screen name is confusing, I do not work for NK and will not give out flight loads for specific flights. Also, I only see what flights are booked at and have no clue on no-show factors or yields... thanks
:evil:
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
OZ SPN-KIX DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>

Is this a fifth freedom route?
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting nkops (Reply 21):
I think DTW-ORD was used mainly as a reposition flight to get the plane to ORD in the morning... I didn't pay too much attention to those loads.... I usually look at the newer flights and the flights out of my city

The non-business travel O&D on DTW-ORD has pretty much vaporized over recent years. With one flight per day, they were not capturing much of this in comparison to WN, DL, UA, and AA.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**NK FLL-KIN OCT 0.5>0.1 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.4>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.5>0 APR 0.5>0.2
NK FLL-MBJ NOV 0.6>0.7 DEC 0.6>0.7 FEB 0.6>0.7 MAR 0.5>0.7
**NK FLL-NAS OCT 0.8>0.1 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0.2

B6 wins again

Quoting N782NC (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
LA SFO-LIM SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.5>1.5 NOV 0.6>1.6 DEC 0.6>1.6 JAN 0.5>1.5 FEB 0.6>1.6 MAR 0.6>1.6 APR 0.6>1.6

Am I the only person who noticed this? Is this route performing so well that they more than double the frequency?

They always misfile this; it'll be reversed next week

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
Not the first time: DL temporarily dropped FWA-MSP in the fall of 2009 due in part to runway construction at MSP. It returned as a seasonal service in spring 2010, and was made permanent in 2011 after FWA-CVG was axed.

Oh sweet liberty if you think FWA was canceled because of runway construction, out of some 4-500 flights, then I admire your naive optimism. NK isn't cutting FLL because of construction either. They're cutting it because a 90% local airline can't make a connecting hub work, and B6 appears to beat them every time in that arena.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*NK LAS-PDX NOV 2>1.2 DEC 2>1.0 JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0 APR 2>1.0
*NK PDX-SAN NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
I noticed this last night. Spirit is actually taking one of their PDX-LAS nonstops and, effective Nov 8, routing it via SAN. So although PDX is gaining a ROUTE on NK (SAN) they are not gaining a departure; they will remain at 3 daily departures -- 1 to Vegas, 1 to DFW, and the new one to SAN

You beat me to it B-, I was wondering how NK was justifying an additional flight to a market they haven't proven yet. The SAN flight will be a very welcome addition, I'll be on the first flight on Nov 8th.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 25):
You beat me to it B-, I was wondering how NK was justifying an additional flight to a market they haven't proven yet. The SAN flight will be a very welcome addition, I'll be on the first flight on Nov 8th.

Hey B, if you really like your upcoming trip to Dallas, you could go back there in November: as I reported on the other thread, NK's flight 470 will actuall fly PDX-SAN-LAS-DFW-FLL! (Sounds like they may have hired one of WN's schedulers/route planners!) Just make sure you're locked in the bathroom during the first 2 ground stops on your November flight and you'll end up back in the Big D!  
Quoting beechtobus (Reply 19):
I recall a situation early 2011 when Spirit first did their large, fast but incremental buildup of LAS, that if by a certain date ( I believe sometime in the late summer) airlines would be charged different lease rates based on their number of flights in and out, the more, the cheaper per flight.

A very intersting post beech'. You bring up a point to be considerd. It seems that in some cases, NK does appear to more-or-less keep the number of departures at a station fairly consistent, even when new destinations are added. You mentiioned the case of LAS, now here's PDX getting a third destination (in a bit over a year) but remaining at 3 daily departures. AZA also will see a new route, DEN, while losing one -- LAS. (True, they are also getting a seasonal addition to ORD but we are not seeing a dramtic increase in the number of flights at AZA.)

Perhaps it's just another aspect of NK's policy of trying routes, and removing them if they don't produce. Yet if Spirit has put out the expense to open a new station, looks like maybe they will try different flights/routes from that station until they find the ones that work. Seems like a workable plan to me.

bb
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
Yet if Spirit has put out the expense to open a new station, looks like maybe they will try different flights/routes from that station until they find the ones that work.

If Spirit is getting good deals from the airports, it may not cost too much money. The Spirit deal at AZA is the same as the Frontier deal - and its pretty good:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...eway-finalize-terms-agreement.html

"Terms of the agreement that will bring Denver-based Frontier Airlines to Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport in November were finalized Monday at a special telephonic meeting of the airport board.

Gateway Deputy Director Casey Denny said the Frontier deal "follows the same terms and conditions that we had with Spirit, with the exception of marketing support, which was done separately."


It runs for a year, which would be next February, I think, and unless the airport extends it - which could happen - the real charges kick in after that.

mariner

[Edited 2012-08-30 19:59:22]
aeternum nauta
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WP ATL-MEI OCT 0>1.9 NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>1.8 JAN 0>1.9 FEB 0>1.9 MAR 0>1.8 APR 0>1.9
WP ATL-MSL OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-PIB OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7 APR 0>1.7
WP ATL-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3
WP GLH-TUP OCT 0>3 NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>3

Which airline is WP? The tooltip says "Aloha Islandair", but that obviously isn't right in this case...

Either way, I expect that if they are an airline that codeshares with DL, we will see a corresponding further pulldown of the MEM hub, along with DL handing over ATL-MEI.
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
B6 wins again

Agreed

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
They always misfile this; it'll be reversed next week

It is too close in to be correct

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
NK isn't cutting FLL because of construction either.

Agreed as well.

Quoting mariner (Reply 27):
It runs for a year, which would be next February, I think, and unless the airport extends it - which could happen - the real charges kick in after that.

Sad to see NK and F9 making a route that's questionable to begin with into a disaster. Maybe G4 should add it too. LOL
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:28 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 27):
If Spirit is getting good deals from the airports, it may not cost too much money. The Spirit deal at AZA is the same as the Frontier deal - and its pretty good.

Absolutely, the deal is probably not terribly unlike many airports offer new airlines/routes with waived and reduced fees and lease terms (plus some marketing support.) But I was thinking that there are still expenses for any carrier to open and staff (etc) any new station. So once the airline gets a station open, I would expect they would not want to completely pull out without trying a few different things.

And actually, to expand my thoughts from my reply 26, NK actually started AZA this last February with 2 daily flights (to LAS), adding a 3rd departure (DFW) a month later. By May, they were down to a total of 2 departures (1 to each destination.) By the end of this year, AZA will (still) be seeing 3 departures on NK, 1 each to DEN, DFW and ORD. So again, while the number of daily departures stays fairly consistent, the number of destinations increases. No particular point other than the fact that I find this very interesting from a route development and scheduling pov.

bb
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:47 am

I'm not sure I would characterize NK's schedule changes in FLL as B6 'winning'. NK's profit per aircraft is the highest in the industry and their management has stated numerous times that they do not chase market share. Perhaps the Carribean routes, while profitable, are not as profitable as other opportunities elsewhere domestically. Consolidation in the US has created additional opportunities domestically for NK that did not exist a year ago. Also, NK's is no longer a FLL-centric airline as it was even a year ago.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:15 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA LAX-YLW JAN 1.0>1.1 FEB 1.0>1.1 MAR 1.0>1.2

OMG -- My little baby is growing up [*sniff*] .   
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:24 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Sad to see NK and F9 making a route that's questionable to begin with into a disaster. Maybe G4 should add it too. LOL

I assume Spirit is just making mischief.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 30):
So again, while the number of daily departures stays fairly consistent, the number of destinations increases. No particular point other than the fact that I find this very interesting from a route development and scheduling pov.
Quoting mariner (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Sad to see NK and F9 making a route that's questionable to begin with into a disaster. Maybe G4 should add it too. LOL

I assume Spirit is just making mischief.

I'm not sure it was your point, but why is NK defending a city where they can't even seem to maintain the same routes for more than a few months? You'd think there would be more important things to do.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:14 pm

Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 31):
Also, NK's is no longer a FLL-centric airline as it was even a year ago.

It's anything-but-FLL centric 
Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 31):
Perhaps the Carribean routes, while profitable, are not as profitable as other opportunities elsewhere domestically.

NK's management has also said that all their routes are profitable, so I assume NAS and KIN were not.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):
Quoting ROSWELL41 (Reply 31):
Also, NK's is no longer a FLL-centric airline as it was even a year ago.

It's anything-but-FLL centric 

Anti-FLL-centric

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):
NK's management has also said that all their routes are profitable, so I assume NAS and KIN were not.

Every airline says that. Means nothing...
 
brilondon
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BB SJU-EIS DEC 0>1.2 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0
BB SJU-STT JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.7>0 MAR 1.6>0 APR 1.8>0
BB SJU-STX JAN 1.1>0 FEB 1.1>0 MAR 1.2>0 APR 1.1>0
BB SJU-VQS JAN 0.3>0 FEB 0.3>0 MAR 0.3>0 APR 0.3>0
BB SPB-SSB SEP 12>13 OCT 6>14 NOV 6>14 DEC 6>13 JAN 6>0 FEB 6>0 MAR 6>0 APR 6>0
BB STT-SJU JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 0.8>0 APR 0.9>0
BB STT-STX OCT 7>6 JAN 7>0 FEB 7>0 MAR 7>0 APR 7>0
BB STX-SJU SEP 3>1.6 OCT 3>1.6 NOV 3>1.6 DEC 3>1.6 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0
BB STX-VQS SEP 0.2>0.3 OCT 0.1>0.3 NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0
BB VQS-SJU SEP 0.2>0.3 OCT 0.1>0.3 NOV 0.1>0.3 DEC 0.2>0.3 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0

I'm sorry, I don't know who BB is, it keeps telling me its Belair of Switzerland and that does't seem to make sense nor does WP which is being shown as Island Air in Hawaii.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Sad to see NK and F9 making a route that's questionable to begin with into a disaster. Maybe G4 should add it too. LOL

With some 2800+ pax per day between Denver and Phoenix, I think this allows for some flexibility with flights from DEN-AZA, and at this time, 2 flights does not seem any stretch here. Add in F9s connectivity options, and then NKs low fares, and this route may actually be among the more conservative gambles by both airlines.

I think that they'll probably both do well......

 
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:56 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 37):
I'm sorry, I don't know who BB is, it keeps telling me its Belair of Switzerland and that does't seem to make sense nor does WP which is being shown as Island Air in Hawaii.

IATA.org says BB is Seaborne Airlines and WP is Hawaii Island Air, Inc.dba Island Air

I found this via Google: Why does the flight reservation say Island Air? Silver has an agreement with Island Air for access to the Global Distribution Systems. Your itinerary will say Island Air however you will be flying on a Silver Airways aircraft.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 36):
Every airline says that. Means nothing...

I don't think any airline has ever said that   It may or may not be true but if any airline is going to cut underperforming routes faster than you can blink, it's NK.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-PEK NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0 JAN 0.5>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.6>1.0 APR 0.6>1.0

I know PEK and HKG are two very different destinations but somewhat? related to DL dropping DTWHKG? I can only assume that there are still onward connections on DL to PEK via MU and CZ thus bringing it daily. As those pax would otherwise be flying broken itineraries on DL to KA and CX chasing cheap fares.

I'm still holding out on JFKHKG...
What gets measured gets done.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
Oh sweet liberty if you think FWA was canceled because of runway construction, out of some 4-500 flights, then I admire your naive optimism.

I'm just going by what DL said to the local media here when FWA-MSP was originally canceled.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
B6 wins again
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
NK isn't cutting FLL because of construction either. They're cutting it because a 90% local airline can't make a connecting hub work, and B6 appears to beat them every time in that arena.

I can bet that NK does more connections out of FLL than you think, especially to Central America (where B6 has a very limited presence). Plus, many cities served by NK out of FLL like ORD, DFW, and DTW aren't served by B6 nonstop out of FLL, though there are also many instances of the other way around.
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:00 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 34):
I'm not sure it was your point, but why is NK defending a city where they can't even seem to maintain the same routes for more than a few months?

I've no idea.

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MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 42):

I can bet that NK does more connections out of FLL than you think, especially to Central America (where B6 has a very limited presence). Plus, many cities served by NK out of FLL like ORD, DFW, and DTW aren't served by B6 nonstop out of FLL, though there are also many instances of the other way around.

Over the last few years NK has been doing nothing but downsizing FLL, while growing like wildfire everywhere else. That's a clear signal that FLL is not working for them. They've also said they're 90% local, so I imagine that 10% "connection" rate for the network is near 100% at FLL, so yeah, I'm sure the % local at FLL is much lower than the network average.
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:04 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 26):
Hey B, if you really like your upcoming trip to Dallas, you could go back there in November: as I reported on the other thread, NK's flight 470 will actuall fly PDX-SAN-LAS-DFW-FLL! (Sounds like they may have hired one of WN's schedulers/route planners!) Just make sure you're locked in the bathroom during the first 2 ground stops on your November flight and you'll end up back in the Big D!

Hey B-, lets see how the non-stop goes first, and the SAN trip too.  
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 35):

" NK's management has also said that all their routes are profitable, so I assume NAS and KIN were not."

That is a pretty broad assumption. While I have no clue if Spirit was making money on these flights, they very well may have but could have determined that these aircraft could make more money elsewhere. This airline seems to be very mobile and if ground service is contract and not company ran, its quite easy to move where the money is.

Also, it looks like nas and kin both have .2 for the frequencies in apr '13. Does this mean they are coming back to these markets then?
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting ADent (Reply 39):
IATA.org says BB is Seaborne Airlines and WP is Hawaii Island Air, Inc.dba Island Air

I found this via Google: Why does the flight reservation say Island Air? Silver has an agreement with Island Air for access to the Global Distribution Systems. Your itinerary will say Island Air however you will be flying on a Silver Airways aircraft.

OK, so WP is really Silver Airways? Once again, I would think that starting up routes from small Mississippi cities to ATL will spell the end of those services from MEM on CRJs. I'm guessing we'll see more MEM cuts in the near future.
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 47):
Once again, I would think that starting up routes from small Mississippi cities to ATL will spell the end of those services from MEM on CRJs. I'm guessing we'll see more MEM cuts in the near future.

This is all EAS flying that DL is ending. DL had already announced their intention to leave these markets a year ago after the EAS subsidy expired this summer (and following the departure of the Saabs from the fleet).
 
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RE: OAG Changes 8/31/2012: AA/AM/NK/UA/US

Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 38):
2 flights does not seem any stretch here.
Quoting point2point (Reply 38):
I think that they'll probably both do well......

Given that they couldn't make money on AZA-LAS which is a much bigger market, I'd say it'll be a disaster.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 40):
Quoting enilria (Reply 36):
Every airline says that. Means nothing...

I don't think any airline has ever said that

Airlines never say they have an unprofitable route because then they'd be pressured to drop it. I've never heard any airline admit anything is unprofitable. If the onboard revenue exceeds the cost of the pilot's coffee they call that profitable to the shareholders.

Another classic I've seen over and over again is this string...
Analyst: "Is XXX-YYY profitable?"
CEO: "It's exceeding expectations."
Two weeks later they drop it. LOL

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