VC10er
Topic Author
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Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:12 pm

I have read that LATAM will keep 2 brands flying, LAN for it's current routes etc and TAM for Brazil. However while doing business in Brazil, the talk among executives is that it will eventually become one giant brand serving all or most of South America and globally called LATAM airlines.

I asked, with the horrible loss of VARIG would Brazilians not want their own flag carrier? Not one representing most of the other SA countries? They all seemed to agree that Brazilians don't really care anymore like they once did during VARIG's heyday. Brazilians will fly anything given all the choices they now have.

Are their any facts to support any of this? I cannot find any data to substantiate either.

Thanks
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:27 am

All will depend on local Brazilian regulations.

Lan could manage so far to establish their brand in different countries as they allow foreign crew to operate them and give in general full rights. Brazil is different ! They can't fly domestic routes without a plane registered in Brazil and local crew in an airline owned at least 51% by Brazilians.

But we have to remember that Brazil presents the 4th largest domestic market worldwide, probably a few times bigger than the aggregate domestic market of other South American countries.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PPVRA
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:49 am

TAM'a brand is not what Varig's brand used to be, but I don't see it going away unless TAM's brand gets severely eroded.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:04 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
TAM'a brand is not what Varig's brand used to be, but I don't see it going away unless TAM's brand gets severely eroded.

From a brazilian perspective yes... But what about from the perspective of connections to other hubs using a single brand? Sure it can be done with multiple brands... but a Single brand looks more powerful. IE i want to go from london to Santiago. LAN can offer me a connection via Brazil.
 
C010T3
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:45 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
They can't fly domestic routes without a plane registered in Brazil and local crew in an airline owned at least 51% by Brazilians.

It's actually 80% of the voting shares. A Brazilian airline is also not allowed to fly foreign-registered on international routes. That's also why unifying brands will not bring any flexibility in terms of fleet unless all aircraft are registered in Brazil. I am not sure, but another problem would present itself in that situation. A foreign crew would not be able to fly an international flight to Brazil. For example, PZ's crew hold Brazilian licenses despite it being a Paraguayan airline.
 
SCL767
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:56 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 3):
Sure it can be done with multiple brands... but a Single brand looks more powerful. IE i want to go from london to Santiago. LAN can offer me a connection via Brazil.

LAN does code-share on JJ's daily GRU-LHR service, so you can fly LHR-GRU-EZE, LHR-GRU-SCL, etc. on both TAM and LAN. Also, LAN does have Fifth Freedom Rights between Brazil and the E.U. and can operate routes, i.e. SCL-GIG-MAD, SCL-GIG-CDG, SCL-GRU-BCN, SCL-GRU-FCO, SCL-GRU-FRA, etc. But LAN and TAM will continue to maintain separate brands similar to IAG's BA and IB. Both LAN and TAM have strong brands that are recognized throughout the world. Most passengers associate LAN with different South American countries, and they associate TAM with Brazil. The AV-TA group; which has various different brands, is rebranding all their subsidiaries as AV in order to appear "powerful" compared to LATAM. It will be interesting to see how that works for them.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 4):
A Brazilian airline is also not allowed to fly foreign-registered on international routes. That's also why unifying brands will not bring any flexibility in terms of fleet unless all aircraft are registered in Brazil. I am not sure, but another problem would present itself in that situation.

It's clear that LATAM is keeping the TAM brand for the foreseeable future, i.e. ABSA being branded as TAM Cargo. I would expect that LATAM will transfer a/c between their different subsidiaries if there is a sudden increase or decrease in demand in their respective markets. For example, LAN could transfer B763s over to TAM, similar to LAN Cargo transferring a/c over to TAM Cargo.
 
VC10er
Topic Author
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:45 pm

While I like TAM a lot, and have flown them often in international C and F and domestic sardine cans and the Ponte Aeria. But TAM never as still lacks a Brazilian provenance e.g. Iberia or BA etc. I'm dubious of it's brand strength, especially internationally and it's awareness. There would be a huge financial advantage to manage and build one brand. And LATAM AIRLINES could be very powerful. Just my opinion, but I have to assume it's been discussed. But I assume it's not been discussed openly?

And boy would I love to do that livery!
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 3):
From a brazilian perspective yes... But what about from the perspective of connections to other hubs using a single brand? Sure it can be done with multiple brands... but a Single brand looks more powerful. IE i want to go from london to Santiago. LAN can offer me a connection via Brazil.

The way I tend to think about this is, domestic market is King. The domestic network is TAM's value offer to Star Alliance and for the international traveller, so whatever they do, they must maintain a strong domestic brand to help them maintain a strong domestic network. I think the risks of doing away with TAM outweigh the benefits by a good margin.

That said, I am not a marketing person. . .
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:50 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 5):
The AV-TA group; which has various different brands, is rebranding all their subsidiaries as AV

And that would happen as early as the first half of 2013...
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SCL767
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RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 7):
The domestic network is TAM's value offer to Star Alliance and for the international traveller, so whatever they do, they must maintain a strong domestic brand to help them maintain a strong domestic network.

TAM's domestic network is even more valuable to LATAM's entire network and will also enable both LAN and TAM to launch new international routes. O6 will have to fill the void when TAM exits the Star Alliance...
 
java6673
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:54 pm

RE: Will LAN & TAM Become Latam Airlines?

Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):

I have read that LATAM will keep 2 brands flying


[As far a understand on conversation with TAM employees in MIA, LAN is taking over all TAM Internationa operations, fist case is BOG, they are working now on MIA operations too.

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