LAXDESI
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Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:54 pm

It is only fitting that I get to start the 100th thread from India, while visiting my relatives in Chennai. It has been many years since the first thread on Indian Aviation. I didn't expect it to last this long, but I am pleased with continued popularity of this thread.

I thank all of you for contributing, and hope you keep this thread going.
 
karan69
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:48 pm

Well done laxdesi , it's been a thoroughly enjoyed and memorable journey not only for us but for Indian aviation , it was in 2007 around when these threads started gaining momentum it was also when 9W and AI took delivery of their first batch of 777 s for the BRU hub and JFK non stop and how the scenario has changed ,

As I said a memorable journey thanks for starting the journey and trend on Indian aviation on this forum LaxDesi

karan
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:27 pm

Congrats LAXDESI. You have done a tremendous job initiating these threads. My hat is off to you sir.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:38 pm

Dear LAXDESI

Congrats to you for having started something like this and a very special thanks to you and the many other worthy contributors who have enriched it with a very high quality of discussion and debate.

Great job. We look forward to the double hundred...

Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Thread starter):
It has been many years since the first thread on Indian Aviation

Undoubtly......Thanks to LAXDESI & the many other posters on this Thread topic........
Never thought 100 threads would be completed so fast......Amazing journey & thanks folks for the posts.....
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
brahmin
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:48 pm

Jai Hind and Vande Mataram
 
WestWing
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:35 pm

LAXDESI: Let me also add my congratulations on the 100th thread. Looking forward to the next 100 threads.

Will AI receive their first 787 before thread # 200 ?
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
comorin
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:28 am

LAXDESI, Hip Hip Hooray!    Thanks for a quality thread that managed to be informative and entertaining.

By the way, did you get to see the new International Terminal in Madras?

Quoting WestWing (Reply 6):
Will AI receive their first 787 before thread # 200 ?

Naughty, naughty!
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:22 am

Great to see 100 threads!

I wonder when we'll hit 1000
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BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:47 am

Congratulations on the century.
I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
 
BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:14 am

A good chronicle on how Star Alliance, and it appears Lufthansa, hosed Air India.

http://www.livemint.com/2012/09/0300...31/Air-India8217s-Starcrossed.html

A great example of how the Ministry consistently pulls the rug out from under Air India for the benefit of others. Would the civil aviation authority of any other country tolerate this?
I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
 
BOMRPR
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:36 am

Congratulations LAXDESI, this thread has nurtured my interest in Indian aviation all these years and I finally decided to join Anet last month. I am sure there would be many like me out there following your thread and are unable to convey their gratitude. I would like to Thank You on their behalf.
 
cricket
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:52 am

Woo hoo... now to organise a A.Net meet in India sometime  
Congrats to LAXDESI and everyone who participated here to make these discussions quite entertaining. I have learnt a lot in these fora.

Fatso's cars raced well in Belgium, but I was told that people are giving him arm's length treatment in the F1 paddock. In the age of the internet, bad news can't be hidden, even though I believe he employes a large SEO/SEM team to make sure negative references can be brushed under the carpet. Unfortunately when the carpet starts bulging, people find out.

I am also led to believe that with his 'White Knight' Subrata Roy Sahara getting pwned by the Supreme Court; things will probably get worse for him.
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
himmat01
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:26 am

Congratulations LAXDESI on the century. It's been a long journey.
An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 10):
A good chronicle on how Star Alliance, and it appears Lufthansa, hosed Air India.

http://www.livemint.com/2012/09/0300...31/Air-India8217s-Starcrossed.html

A great example of how the Ministry consistently pulls the rug out from under Air India for the benefit of others. Would the civil aviation authority of any other country tolerate this?

Excellent article.
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cricket
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:27 am

Surprise, EK wants an even larger chunk of Indian skies... Just get it over with and make EK our 'flag carrier'
http://www.firstpost.com/politics/ag...er-pie-of-indian-skies-441655.html
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
Nimish
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:53 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 12):
Woo hoo... now to organise a A.Net meet in India sometime  
Congrats to LAXDESI and everyone who participated here to make these discussions quite entertaining. I have learnt a lot in these fora.

Couldn't agree more!

Quoting Cricket (Reply 15):
Just get it over with and make EK our 'flag carrier'

Given the dog-in-the-manger attitude of the Indian govt and Indian carriers, I guess EK is already the 'de-factor flag carrier' and millions of Indians benefit every year.
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
pnqiad
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:33 pm

Congrats LAXDESI....Hope you are enjoying your India trip....TR soon??  
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:13 pm

Congrats to LAXDesi and all Indian aviation enthusiasts in A.net for making this happen!!

On another note.... any news of the Desi 787s? Maybe Boeing should just auction those jets off.  
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:18 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 18):
On another note.... any news of the Desi 787s? Maybe Boeing should just auction those jets off.

The MoL babu who requested clarification should get that clarification tomorrow. We can all pray that the clarification will satisfy him and he'll send the file on its way.
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 15):

Surprise, EK wants an even larger chunk of Indian skies..

I notice the article skips the chemical and pharma rights Dubai would offer in return.

If there is no increase in the air-service rights, the other parts of the bilateral will not be updated. Why would Dubai?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
777way
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:47 pm

Have AI resumed HKG? there are no flights at their website nor at amadeus, yet this http://www.airindia.in/SBCMS/WebPages/india_to_hongkong_banner.aspx
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 21):
Have AI resumed HKG? there are no flights at their website nor at amadeus, yet this http://www.airindia.in/SBCMS/WebPage....aspx

Yes, AI resumed a while back. They're operating daily.

Depending on day of the week, it's flight 310, 314, 315, or 317 if I remember right.

I have no trouble finding it in Amadeus.
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goacom
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:04 am

Air India was number 1 in cancellations even before the pilots strike.
Air India was to operate a total of 1,06,334 flights, of which 3,604 flights were cancelled and interestingly, 462 flights were cancelled in April, when there was no internal problem in the airline.

http://articles.economictimes.indiat...gfisher-airlines-spicejet-airlines


After having learnt my lesson with AI's terrible service record, I decided not to travel on AI ever again - even though it often shows up as the cheapest option. I have made it company policy too. Like Kingfisher, Air India needs to like die already and stop torturing us the passengers with their unreliable service.
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:55 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 20):
I notice the article skips the chemical and pharma rights Dubai would offer in return

How big and lucrative is this sector for India?

Quote:
This study also hints at Emirates wanting four additional ports of call – Amritsar, Mangalore, Pune and Trichy. At present, it flies to 10 Indian airports.

More than that EK would be looking for additional capacity to BOM, DEL, COK, TRV. ATQ, IXE are low yielding while PNQ cant handle widebodies....
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 24):
IXE are low yielding

IXE can't take anything larger than a 737 anyway.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 24):
PNQ cant handle widebodies....

PNQ most certainly can. The runway is 8300 ft...
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JOYA380B747
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:01 am

Indian airports does seem to be among the first to be serviced by the new jets of the respective customers.

787 JL for DEL
748 LH for DEL
and now 787 ET fro BOM??

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ethio...eing-787-860-Dreamliner/2155472/L/

Since when did Ethiopian decide to ply their brand new 787 on the BOM route? Or was just this just a promotional flight by them?
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
cricket
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:52 am

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 26):
Since when did Ethiopian decide to ply their brand new 787 on the BOM route? Or was just this just a promotional flight by them?

From what I heard that the 787's was going to do the IAD flight and then some China flights, and would gradually replace the 767's on the DEL and BOm sectors. I flew ET extensively last year BOM-ADD-FIH and MPM-ADD-DEL; three of those legs in 767's and let me assure you they were the oldest and the worst aircraft (in terms of passenger comfort) I have ever flown. If nothing else, the 787's will have IFE to at least distract me from the seat pitch.

That said, full marks for the food though.
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ojas
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:06 am

LAXDESI,

Hearty congratulations to you for pioneering this Indian Aviation thread and I would congratulate all the members who contributed in this endeavour.

To another 100 threads!!!!
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
ojas
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:10 pm

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
PNQ most certainly can. The runway is 8300 ft...

You are absolutely wrong. PNQ airport cannot handle a widebody.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
fortunerunnner
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 29):
You are absolutely wrong. PNQ airport cannot handle a widebody.

I dont think he is 'absolutely' wrong. In theory PNQ should be able to handle a wide body with 8300ft runway length. However, can it do that is a question which I'm not an expert on. However, I believe if we ever see successful implementation of the proposal to extend the runway to 10000ft (which went into litigation) would make PNQ suitable for widebody operations.

Even with current runway, short hop on A332/333 to DXB should be still be doable but anything that requires additional fuel might be a question. Initially I believe LH flirted with an idea to operate A33x to PNQ but then decided against it and went with BBJ.

Can the civilian apron handle a wide body is another question as at night there is barely a single parking bay open which LH uses to operate its FRA flight. Parking situation may have changed in recent times due to IT decline which I'm not well versed about.
 
ojas
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting fortunerunnner (Reply 30):
I dont think he is 'absolutely' wrong. In theory PNQ should be able to handle a wide body with 8300ft runway length.

He is wrong. Length of the runway aside, the width of the runway till recently was narrow thus not upto the standard to operate an A330. Secondly the apron/parking bays cannot accommodate them as they are all marked for narrow bodies only. The length of the runway can allow an A332 to land, however it will have to go to DXB on a payload restriction.
Great leaders don't tell you what to do ... they show you how it's done!
 
Vimanav
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
PNQ most certainly can. The runway is 8300 ft...

PNQ is 4C as per ICAO Aerodrome reference codes. And that is not good enough for widebodies.

So you may have an A330 landing there, just as a Saudi 747 landed in Tambaram several years ago and a JL DC-8 landed in Juhu, but not under normal operational circumstances.

brgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 32):
PNQ is 4C as per ICAO Aerodrome reference codes. And that is not good enough for widebodies.

Ah, I didn't know this... I thought that with the AF base, the airport would be more capable than that... The runway is certainly long enough for a flight to DXB, but I didn't know about the apron/runway width issues.

My apologies AirIndia
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:47 am

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 24):
How big and lucrative is this sector for India?

Good question. The UAE is India's largest trading partner. What fraction is chem/farma? I just really use them as a placeholder as import export in the UAE as they are rather large export industries grown tremendously (tens of thousands of jobs in India, if not more). It could be something else moving through the UAE. But the reality is there are business partners.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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AirIndia
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 34):
Good question. The UAE is India's largest trading partner. What fraction is chem/farma? I just really use them as a placeholder as import export in the UAE as they are rather large export industries grown tremendously (tens of thousands of jobs in India, if not more). It could be something else moving through the UAE. But the reality is there are business partners.
http://www.indembassyuae.org/drupal/BilateralRelations

As per the link above:

Quote:

India-UAE trade, valued at US$ 180 million per annum in the 1970s, is today in excess of US$ 67 billion making UAE, India's largest trading partner.

India's exports to the UAE are well diversified with a large basket. India's major export items to the UAE are: Petroleum Products, Precious Metals, Stones, Gems & Jewellery, Minerals, Food Items (Cereals, Sugar, Fruits & Vegetables, Tea, Meat, and Seafood), Textiles (Garments, Apparel, Synthetic fibre, Cotton, Yarn) and Engineering & Machinery Products and Chemicals. India's major import items from the UAE are: Petroleum and Petroleum Products, Precious Metals, Stones, Gems & Jewellery, Minerals, Chemicals, Wood & Wood Products

Pharma in particular is missing from the list, thus indicating there is strong potential for Indian pharma to grow in the the UAE and the GCC region.
 
cricket
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:56 am

Kingfisher understated its losses due to improper accounting.

Fair use excerpt...

The carrier's auditor, B.K. Ramadhyani and Co., said that Kingfisher's losses for the past year ended March 31 would have been 34.44 billion rupees ($616.39 million) instead of the reported 23.28 billion rupees had the company properly amortized repairs and maintenance costs on leased aircraft and made provisions for withholding tax and security commission to guarantors of the company's loans.

A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
BLRAviation
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:09 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
PNQ most certainly can. The runway is 8300 ft...

I am reasonably sure PNQ cannot handle a wide body. Please re-check.
I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
 
aeroblogger
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 36):
Kingfisher understated its losses due to improper accounting.

Fair use excerpt...

The carrier's auditor, B.K. Ramadhyani and Co., said that Kingfisher's losses for the past year ended March 31 would have been 34.44 billion rupees ($616.39 million) instead of the reported 23.28 billion rupees had the company properly amortized repairs and maintenance costs on leased aircraft and made provisions for withholding tax and security commission to guarantors of the company's loans.

wow...
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vtnyc
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:13 pm

Wanted to post my congrats at the beginning to LAXDESI but the Labor Day weekend in the US blindsided me. Congratulations to the progenitor of these and all other similar threads...

Here's a link to the first of these series
Indian Aviation Thread (by LAXDESI Dec 6 2005 in Civil Aviation)

VT-NYC aka Zach.
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:41 pm

Thank you all for your celebratory posts on reaching the 100th thread.

Quoting vtnyc (Reply 39):
Here's a link to the first of these series
Indian Aviation Thread (by LAXDESI Dec 6 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Thanks a lot for the link to first thread.

It has been nearly seven years, and a lot of progress has been made since the first thread with new airports in DEL, BLR, and HYD. Passenger traffic has more than doubled in about seven years.

Quoting comorin (Reply 7):
By the way, did you get to see the new International Terminal in Madras?

I didn't notice anything different since my trip six months ago. Perhaps the new addition is not being used yet.
 
fortunerunnner
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting ojas (Reply 31):
The length of the runway can allow an A332 to land, however it will have to go to DXB on a payload restriction.

I'm not certain that needs to be the case if all other factors you mentioned are taken care for such as runway width and apron area etc.

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 32):
PNQ is 4C as per ICAO Aerodrome reference codes. And that is not good enough for widebodies.

Good to know the technical details and as mentioned by Ojas, runway width and apron seemed to be the reason why it has not been suitable for widebody operations.

Quoting ojas (Reply 31):
Secondly the apron/parking bays cannot accommodate them as they are all marked for narrow bodies only.

This is what I thought as well, civilian apron area is woefully inadequate for widebody operations particularly when most bays are occupied by parked aircrafts during night hours when most international operations happen out of India.
 
comorin
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting laxdesi (Reply 40):
Quoting comorin (Reply 7):
By the way, did you get to see the new International Terminal in Madras?

I didn't notice anything different since my trip six months ago. Perhaps the new addition is not being used yet.

It's a big deal so that means it's still not opened. I think like everything in MAA it's probably named after Anna.



Edit: typo

[Edited 2012-09-05 10:48:18]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting vtnyc (Reply 39):
Here's a link to the first of these series
Indian Aviation Thread (by LAXDESI Dec 6 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Excellent forsight. Thank you for launching the series and sticking with it.

Amazing the title selected was good enough to stay unchanged.

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 35):
Pharma in particular is missing from the list, thus indicating there is strong potential for Indian pharma to grow in the the UAE and the GCC region.

I had been reading on stock reports that they had already grown nicely. But there is room for more growth.   

Quoting Cricket (Reply 36):
Kingfisher understated its losses due to improper accounting.

  

So how deep is the hole?   

Put a fork in IT, they are done.  

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
cricket
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:41 am

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 37):
Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 25):
PNQ most certainly can. The runway is 8300 ft...

I am reasonably sure PNQ cannot handle a wide body. Please re-check.

They could not, but the runway/tarmac expansion was supposed to allow for widebody operations 10/28 is supposed to be expanded to 10000 feet, more than enough for 777's and A330's
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
cricket
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:57 am

The latest is that the first 787-837 is supposed to land at DEL on Saturday
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fi...r-india-to-land-on-saturday-263802


The WSJ did not allow me to link the article properly, here is another attempt for the whole story of Kingfisher's accounts
http://www.samachar.com/Kingfisher-L...proper-Accounting-mjfoNdhjifc.html

And $616 million for the year, that is $50million every month, how on earth can one run an airline with those kind of losses???
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
SIA747Megatop
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:38 am

Just a question, when did AI start posting losses or how long have they been posting them for?
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aeroblogger
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Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:53 am

RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:14 am

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 46):
Just a question, when did AI start posting losses or how long have they been posting them for?

AI started posting losses approximately when the merger occured. Both AI and IC seperately made profit in 2004-2005...

The combination of changing market conditions, a destructive merger, and an aircraft order too big for AI to afford (the latter 2 which we can say our former corrupt Minister Praful Patel is responsible for) have dragged AI into losses.
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jgp777
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:55 am

For the nth time, guess the Dreamliner should finally come to India this weekend:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...-Saturday/articleshow/16280986.cms
 
goacom
Posts: 104
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RE: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 100

Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 47):
Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 46):
Just a question, when did AI start posting losses or how long have they been posting them for?

AI started posting losses approximately when the merger occured. Both AI and IC seperately made profit in 2004-2005...

The combination of changing market conditions, a destructive merger, and an aircraft order too big for AI to afford (the latter 2 which we can say our former corrupt Minister Praful Patel is responsible for) have dragged AI into losses.

Not really. AI has a long history of making losses and going to the government for bailouts. Look at the following articles from 15 years ago. So long as AI continues to be mis-managed by political appointees and continues to be staffed with politically connected but incompetent employees, with life time employment, AI will continue to be a flying disaster. Since there is no change is this, even after the recent "restructuring", we can expect more of the same in a few years hence.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?206520
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/773363.stm


Also, the bailouts do not include the hidden subsidies given by the government in the form of loan guarantees, that allows AI to secure loans at sovereign rates instead of higher rates at the commercial market. These implicit subsidies are in fact much larger that the grants and amount to 10's of billions of USD over decades.

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