tonystan
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Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:29 am

So now that Qantas have finally announced their worst kept secret about their tie up with Emirates it has be concerned about BAs position on the market.

The BA Source website suggests that it could finally mean the end of its operations to Australia. It is a well known fact that the route could not break even on its own and having the flight operated in conjunction with Qantas helped absorb the costs.

What does everyone else think???

I for one will be gutted if it does end but thats purely selfish reasons.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
spiritair97
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:34 am

I SINCERELY doubt BA will drop Australia. Aren't they both still in OW and codeshare with each other?
 
tonystan
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:42 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 1):
I SINCERELY doubt BA will drop Australia. Aren't they both still in OW and codeshare with each other?

I hope you are right but the route operates currently under the JSA agreement allowing BA and Qantas to share the revenue. In effect the SIN-SYD legs of the BA flights may aswell be Qantas etc allowing them to absorb any cost which is significant for BA for the additional slug down to OZ. Also the yield from LON-SYD is far less then from SIN-SYD which BA may not be able to achieve without the Qantas marketing.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
aussie747
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:49 am

Yes you will find BA 15/16 with terminate altogether or at least at Singapore come 31MAR13. This will be the last European carrier to fly online to Australia. If not definately by the end of the Northern Summer 2013

Although BA/QF will withdraw from their actual JV agreement and their revenue sharing agreement will no doubt cease.

There has been no definitie agreement yet that they will withdraw their fares allowing both carriers to be used on the one ticket. I guess it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:51 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 2):
I hope you are right but the route operates currently under the JSA agreement allowing BA and Qantas to share the revenue. In effect the SIN-SYD legs of the BA flights may aswell be Qantas etc allowing them to absorb any cost which is significant for BA for the additional slug down to OZ. Also the yield from LON-SYD is far less then from SIN-SYD which BA may not be able to achieve without the Qantas marketing.

QF pushes traffic onto BA metal SYD-SIN-LHR by offering lower ticket prices than on its own metal. It seems to suggest that BA's loads are lighter, so without QF funnelling passengers to BA on the route, I can see it getting cut.

With the extra slots at LHR gained from the BD purchase, BA would probably have better uses for the 744. I can see it becoming a LHR-SIN flight instead, possibly even downgrading to a 77E.
 
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EK413
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:02 am

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 3):

Let's not forget Richard Branson is rubbing his hands at the moment as his carrier will be the last man standing on the LHR-HKG-SYD route...

EK413
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anstar
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 3):
Yes you will find BA 15/16 with terminate altogether or at least at Singapore come 31MAR13. This will be the last European carrier to fly online to Australia.

Last time I checked Virgin Atlantic were a European carrier. I also believe they do quite well on the SYD run so doubt they will drop it. This is a good route where VS can expand outside of LHR (ie HKG-SYD traffic). Given their smaller LHR slot pool it makes sense for them to grow outside LHR (MAN,GLA, HKG etc).
 
psimpson
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:56 am

From what i have read, British Airways will continue to operate the BA15/16 LHR-SIN-SYD-SIN-LHR route, but the BA9/10 will only operate LHR-BKK-LHR from late March 2013.
 
tonystan
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:01 am

Quoting psimpson (Reply 7):
but the BA9/10 will only operate LHR-BKK-LHR from late March 2013.

This was introduced in February 2012 so has been in effect for over 6 months already.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
MANfan
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:13 am

I wouldn't be surprised to see BA start operating to Kuala Lumpur with an onward leg to Sydney, now Malaysian are joining One World.

In time BA 787-9's might be used to Sydney given the smaller loads, either via SIN or KUL, as they will be the smallest hulls with both the range and all 4 classes available.

BA A380s, B744s and/or 777-300ER on higher volume terminating services to the Far East, and the 787's for the smaller through market flights to Australia and possibly a return to New Zealand, although the later will be a lot lower priority than developing a new, but profitable stagegy of maintaining a viable presence in the Australian market.

It will take a couple of years to work through though as the first A380 won't arrive until late 2013 at the earliest, and the 787-9 until 2015. I can't see the 787-8 being used on this sort of route, it's just that bit to small, only 3 class, and there aren't that many on order, compared to the 787-9.

MANfan
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:14 am

Well I guess BA can move all its long haul services to T5 now, capacity permitting. No use in keeping any of them at T3 with the JSA ending.

Would be a shame to see BA pull out of SYD but isn't the route via SIN/BKK the shortest? DXB seems a bit of a diversion really.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
TC957
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:18 am

I can see BA pulling SYD. LHR - SYD ties up an aircraft for almost 3 days and with extra slots available at LHR and Willie Walsh's desire to serve China more, surely better use of a 744 can be made operating a new China route or two.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 11):
I can see BA pulling SYD. LHR - SYD ties up an aircraft for almost 3 days and with extra slots available at LHR and Willie Walsh's desire to serve China more, surely better use of a 744 can be made operating a new China route or two.

I tend to agree, sentiment aside ( and there is precious little room for that in business) the UK Australia route is very costly operationally, and probably even more so when the opportunity cost is considered. Those aircraft and crews could surely be used more profitably elsewhere.
 
Camohe
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:51 am

I agree with the consensus here. I will be very sad to see BA exit Australia but commercial realities make it almost certain IMO.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:51 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
Let's not forget Richard Branson is rubbing his hands at the moment as his carrier will be the last man standing on the LHR-HKG-SYD route...

Well CX is obviously never going to pull out of there so VS will never have sole rights to LHR-HKG-SYD.


BA can easily continue their codesharing through CX, MH or QF to save them having to go all the way to SYD. Who knows if they'll stay for prestige but they did cut back the flights to SYD last year.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:08 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 14):
Who knows if they'll stay for prestige but they did cut back the flights to SYD last year.

Its a shame to say it but I beleive that BA in SYD days are numbered, with so much history between the UK and Australia it would be a shame but history does not pay the bills. If it were down to prestige BA would also still be flying to AKL so we can assume that sentiment will go out the window early on and business acumen will win through.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 5):
Let's not forget Richard Branson is rubbing his hands at the moment as his carrier will be the last man standing on the LHR-HKG-SYD route...

He might be the last one standing at some time in the future but whether he is the last one standing actually making any money on the route to SYD is another thing altogether....they will know quietly at VS that with the EK/QF decision they are really up against it now with SYD.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:18 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 15):
If it were down to prestige BA would also still be flying to AKL so we can assume that sentiment will go out the window early on and business acumen will win through.

I'd say that's pushing it, considering that they only had 2 flights to SYD anyway.. MEL would probably be 'worth more' than AKL in terms of prestige. The fact that they've held onto SYD many years after everyone pulled out is something.

But they do have good codeshare partners within the OW alliance who can take their loads.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
bill142
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:39 am

BA's days in Australia are numbered. Wouldn't be surprised if VS follows suit.
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting tonystan (Thread starter):
I for one will be gutted if it does end but thats purely selfish reasons

Seeing a BA777 in SYD stirred something patriotic in me, to see a union jack tail so far from home even though we'd travelled on VS. Anyone else get this at all?

However, patriotism dosen't equate to profits so, as stated above, the union jack tail in Australia may be coming to an end 
 
anstar
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:04 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 17):
BA's days in Australia are numbered. Wouldn't be surprised if VS follows suit.

Why would VS follow suit? I believe SYD is profitable for them and allowed them some growth that was not based at LHR (ie HKG-SYD). The recent codeshare with VA would also help with SYD-HKG traffic.

BA on the other hand have a big portfolio of slots and could easily reallocate the widebody somewhere else.
 
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NZ107
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:24 am

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 18):
Seeing a BA777 in SYD stirred something patriotic in me, to see a union jack tail so far from home even though we'd travelled on VS. Anyone else get this at all?

Opposite for my case - seeing the Koru at LHR was a great feeling.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:55 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 19):
The recent codeshare with VA would also help with SYD-HKG traffic.

That's exactly it. VS have feed at SYD, some wanting to only go as far as Hong Kong that BA won't really have
now QF will be funnily that via DXB. Hong Kong is high O & D in both direction so the combination of that coming in from both London and Sydney and not wanting to travel all the way through should give Virgin Atlantic something BA don't really have.
 
psimpson
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:05 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 8):
This was introduced in February 2012 so has been in effect for over 6 months already.

You are correct tonystan.
I did not realize that the BAW9/10 was already only operating LHR-BKK-LHR.
In that case BA are already only operating 1 daily service to Sydney.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:16 am

The fact of the matter is that BA have a much inferior product to QF and EK on the Oz route. Their economy product is awful although it is slowly improving with the new Y and Y+ seats being rolled out but their business class and first class products are no where near the level found on the QF and EK A380s.

I doubt we'll ever see a BA A380 at SYD as they will be much valuable elsewhere and where the rotation isn't 3-4 days.
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gilesdavies
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:23 am

I wonder if this could be an opportunity for British Airways and Cathay Pacific to start up some sort of new agreement, seeing as both are in OneWorld?

Both BA and CX have strong links to HKG, and I wonder if BA could form some agreement to feed passengers on to CX's services to Australia.

CX provides connections to five or six destinations in Australia and then rules out the reliance on QF so much to require feeds into SYD for BA.

I don't think CX and BA currently codeshare on the LHR-HKG route. This could be an opportunity for them to align their flights on the route to offer better connections and times frequencies throughout the day.
 
n729pa
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:27 am

As Malaysia Airlines joining the One World Alliance in Spring 2013, this could be the answer a code share with MH and BA use KUL as a hub instead, MH fly to most if not all of the major Australian cities and MH can use BA as a European partner as and where they need to.

Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 18):
Seeing a BA777 in SYD stirred something patriotic in me, to see a union jack tail so far from home even though we'd travelled on VS. Anyone else get this at all?

Yes in the US, but not in Australia for some reason, possibly because I feel more at home in Australia than I did the US (no disrespect to our American friends intended by that). I suppose that there is so much more familiar to a Brit in Australia, from the cars, the side of the road they drove on, the brands in the shops, TV programmes, cricket, rugby etc, that seeing a BA/VS plane is only to be expected and therefore more familiar. Interesting one that.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:50 am

Quoting n729pa (Reply 25):
a, from the cars, the side of the road they drove on, the brands in the shops, TV programmes, cricket, rugby etc, that seeing a BA/VS plane is only to be expected and therefore more familiar. Interesting one that

This is a very good point. But when China Southern sells business class tickets for $4500, literally thousands below
what BA charge, that seems to go out the window pretty fast and dumplings start sounding tempting.
 
jfk777
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:51 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 10):
Would be a shame to see BA pull out of SYD but isn't the route via SIN/BKK the shortest? DXB seems a bit of a diversion really

The reason Qantas is going to Dubai is the connections to almost every corner of Europe. Dubai may not be the most direct route to LHR from Sydney but Dubai has become the Atlanta of teh Middle East.
 
BA174
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 23):
The fact of the matter is that BA have a much inferior product to QF and EK on the Oz route. Their economy product is awful although it is slowly improving with the new Y and Y+ seats being rolled out but their business class and first class products are no where near the level found on the QF and EK A380s.

BAs new F is better than QFs IMO and BA J does have some plus factors over QFs.

I doubt BA will remain on the SIN-SYD route for much longer whether it will mean an MS tie up and a new LHR-KUL-SYD who knows as BA are hardly known to be enthusiastic over serving SYD.
 
qf002
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:15 pm

My bet is that BA will cut the leg from SIN to SYD, but will continue to pass passengers to QF on codeshares. The integration wouldn't be anything like it is today -- I imagine it would be identical to what every other European carrier (bar VS) does with their respective partner airlines.

Don't forget that QF and BA are still alliance partners and BA will still carry QF passengers around Europe to cities EK doesn't service...

Quoting MANfan (Reply 9):
I wouldn't be surprised to see BA start operating to Kuala Lumpur with an onward leg to Sydney, now Malaysian are joining One World.

That would only put pressure on MH's services -- seems a bit counter productive to me.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:16 pm

The whole affair is a testimony to how well EK has trashed fares from Europe to Asia/Australia
 
pesit4a
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:16 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 30):

No, its testament to connecting Europe to Aus with just one stop! There's more to Europe than London!
You just can't keep a good man down!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 10):
...isn't the route via SIN/BKK the shortest?
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 10):
DXB seems a bit of a diversion really.

Assuming a four-engine aircraft:

LHR-HKG-SYD is very close in path to a hypothetical non-stop LHR-SYD

LHR-BKK-SYD is next, followed by LHR-SIN-SYD and then LHR-DXB-SYD.

Once you reach Asia, BKK/SIN/DXB all have similar paths and the flight miles between them are not that large.

http://www.socialwelfareagency.org/Public/Graphics/Aviation/LHRSYD.png
 
Lufthansa
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 30):
The whole affair is a testimony to how well EK has trashed fares from Europe to Asia/Australia

Actually in the premium classes ex Australia EK have always been right up there with Qantas fares. If you wanted
bargain basement fares you had to traditionally fly Garuda, or China Southern, or 10 years ago do something like have a bad connection in tokyo that forced a nights stay (false economy that one was). And in Business class Malaysia airlines has always come in much better thank Emirates, ditto for Thai Airways. Like a few thousand dollars better.

To my American friends. I suggest you watch this closely. Flying to DXB from AA's key 'gateways' in conjunction with EK could be a great way to solve "the India Problem' without abandoning the market and at the same time avoiding the EU's carbon taxing/expensive airport taxes.
 
jfk777
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:00 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 33):
Flying to DXB from AA's key 'gateways' in conjunction with EK could be a great way to solve "the India Problem' without abandoning the market and at the same time avoiding the EU's carbon taxing/expensive airport taxes.

But is AA going to fly to Dubai ? I would be for it but Emirates already flies to almost all corners of the USA except Miami and Chicago. I don't see AA using their new 77W to Dubai from those cities, I can see EK flying to Miami in 2013 or latest 2014.
 
AussieItaliano
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:40 pm

I think BA's best bet to serve both Australia and New Zealand will be a JSA with CX.

BA might be able to shift its SIN-SYD-SIN to HKG-SYD-HKG so that both carriers can operate both sectors of the kangaroo route. For those going on to PER, BNE, MEL or AKL, CX metal can take them from HKG to Australia/NZ.

CX would get access to BA's premium pax, especially those who fly on corporate contracts. It would undoubtedly improve RASM for both carriers on the LHR-HKG-SYD route.

Just my thoughts.
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
mysterzip
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:24 pm

May this open up possibilities with Cathay? I kind of doubt it myself - CX seems to be just fine doing on its own, but it is possible. Hell, even something with Malaysia Airlines. We shall see what the future holds...
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:25 pm

From the Qantas press release about the ending of the JBA with British Airways: -

Quoting Willie Walsh:

IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: “We’re ending the joint business on amicable terms and
support Qantas’ decision to work with Emirates. The world has changed since 1995 when the joint business started. This is a small part of our overall network and this move fits in with changes in our global strategy. Asia has become a key market focus for IAG and we’re talking to a number of airlines about alternative options for us.

Now for Summer 2013 BA could move from the JBA to a codeshare with QF from their Asian ports to the key Australian cities, and then with onward connections within Australia and New Zealand.

Longer term I'd expect BA to explore a deeper relationship with MH and/or CX.

As a new entrant to oneworld MH could be a way for BA to develop a new JBA, with revenue/cost-sharing on the LHR-KUL route (MH has A380s to fill) and the onward connections to PER/ADL/MEL/SYD/BNE/AKL, possibly with BA resuming a LHR-KUL flight too.

Alternatively, BA already codeshares on some CX flights out of HKG, including to AKL. BA and CX might consider deepening their relationship beyond codeshares on continuing flights out of their respective hubs. The only issue would be if they wanted to develop a JBA, how the competition authorities would view a tie-up on the LHR-HKG route. I know that NZ and VS both have daily flights, but would that be considered sufficient? Given recent history any CX/BA deal might involve making slots available to a competitor to add capacity (Additional VS LHR-HKG perhaps?), but then BA/CX might consider that worthwhile to develop a deeper relationshop.

No matter what though I can't see BA wanting to feed Australia through Asia (or DXB) with QF given the EK/QF deal, and I really think that for BA, QF's oneworld relationship will move to one of providing codeshare connections from PER/MEL/SYD/BNE onwards to Australian destinations.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 37):
As a new entrant to oneworld MH could be a way for BA to develop a new JBA, with revenue/cost-sharing on the LHR-KUL route (MH has A380s to fill) and the onward connections to PER/ADL/MEL/SYD/BNE/AKL, possibly with BA resuming a LHR-KUL flight too.

BA will have A380s to fill, as well, so I could see definite traffic / load-factor benefits with a BA-MH JBA.

A BA-CX JBA via HKG might mean a CX VLA order happens sooner, as well.
 
traveler_7
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:24 pm

Perhaps it is a stupid question to ask but I do not understand
Why Qantas or Air NZ may serve London with their own metal and BA could not?

Regards,
Sven
 
bastew
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:51 pm

BA pulling out of OZ has been doing the rumour mill within the airline since the day I started 13 years ago. And I can honestly say this is the first time that I am worried it will come true.

BA has said in the past that the JSA with QF is 'essential' for making BA's operations to Australia viable. BA has pretty much zero brand awareness or presence in OZ. When was the last time you ever seen an ad in the oz press or heard about them in the media? While BA does a stellar job picking up passengers from the european end when brand awareness is high it relies on Qantas to push passengers their way from the Australian end via the JSA. This will obviously no longer happen. With the QF feed BA were also able to pick up some of the higher yielding J/F class passengers flying from say a mining town in QLD or SA/WA to London via SYD. These passengers will now be sent to EK via DXB. The JSA also had the benefit of keeping BA's cost on the route a little lower as they did not spend any money on marketing or advertising in OZ.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. QF have said they will re-time their OZ-SIN flights to make them more appealing to origin and destination passengers versus passengers transiting onto overnight flights from SIN to europe. So a BA/QF codeshare via SIN will not be too appealling to them.

My guess is that BA will cut a deal with soon to be OW member MH. BA metal to KUL and MH metal KUL-OZ.

Saying that, with the new 787's on the way, its anyones guess. Maybe they will go double daily again to SYD and re-launch flights to MEL, BNE and PER. Oh, I just woke up from my dream  

But one thing that is for sure - SYD is not on BA's peiority list. It is a very marginal and small market for BA and if it doesn't churn over the pennys BA will drop it.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting bastew (Reply 40):
But one thing that is for sure - SYD is not on BA's peiority list. It is a very marginal and small market for BA and if it doesn't churn over the pennys BA will drop it.

Indeed, SYD could have been dropped long before now if it weren't for the fact the JSA required both sides to operate at least one through "kangaroo" route flight.

It will be interesting to see what BA does. With QF switching SYD-SIN-LHR and MEL-SIN-LHR top operate via DXB, that's two flights less on the LHR-SIN route. Will BA either add a third SIN flight (IF BA15/16 still operate complete) or operate double-daily LHR-SIN terminators.

In addition, BA suddenly has a new competitor on DXB-LHR, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the current thrice daily BA service become twice daily.

I'd certainly be surprised if the BA code remained on the through QF flights though.

Also wonder if BA will look at moving the SIN and/or BKK flights into T5, as the only reason they were in T3 was because of the JSA. If BA did form a deeper relationship with CX I could see BKK and SIN move to T5, and HKG move to T3. If BA link-up with MH, and relaunch KUL, I'd also expect that flight to operate from T3 too.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
135mech
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RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:43 pm

QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 (by tayser Sep 5 2012 in Civil Aviation)


I know there's another thread, but today is the actual announcement - so no more need for speculation.

http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa...-seal-alliance-20120906-25fhm.html

Quote:
Qantas is finally set to ink an alliance agreement today with Middle Eastern rival Emirates aimed at stemming the Australian airline's losses on the highly competitive route between Australia and Europe.

After months of negotiations and endless speculation, Qantas will today unveil the terms of an alliance with Emirates on routes to Europe via Dubai. Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, will front a media conference at a Sydney hotel at 10am, AEST, this morning.



Sweet... A deal is done for QF and EK for Europe to Oz!

[Edited 2012-09-06 14:44:06]
135Mech
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1612
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:17 pm

I too believe BA will pull out of Australia, it is really only a token presence in SYD and makes no sense without the JSA. Even BA have admitted, it is only economical for them because of the now departed JSA. It makes far more sense for them to use a Oneworld partner in Asia to on-carry pax from HKG or KUL.

I woud think that VS will wait for BA to withdraw and will then do the same. It would make more sense for them to fly to HKG only particularly if VA go forward with their rumoured A330 services to HKG. VS also have a significant codeshare presence in Australia on all SQ services.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18821
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 23):
The fact of the matter is that BA have a much inferior product to QF and EK on the Oz route. Their economy product is awful

Most EK flights to Australia are 777s. I would much prefer a BA 777 with 9-abreast Y class seating to a cramped EK 777 on such a long flight.
 
ek36
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:36 am

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:43 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 44):

Agreed and DXB - SYD is a long leg. BA will be gone by March 2013.

VS going nowhere for now
 
BA174
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:55 pm

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:58 am

Quoting traveler_7 (Reply 39):
Perhaps it is a stupid question to ask but I do not understand
Why Qantas or Air NZ may serve London with their own metal and BA could not?

Regards,
Sven


Basically London is a much more lucrative destination for NZ and QF than SYD is for BA who have got better things to do with their aircraft than trundle them all the way to SYD which takes 3/4 days to complete the rotation per aircraft.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:30 pm

Quoting BA174 (Reply 46):
Quoting traveler_7 (Reply 39):
Perhaps it is a stupid question to ask but I do not understand
Why Qantas or Air NZ may serve London with their own metal and BA could not?

Regards,
Sven



Basically London is a much more lucrative destination for NZ and QF than SYD is for BA who have got better things to do with their aircraft than trundle them all the way to SYD which takes 3/4 days to complete the rotation per aircraft.

I don't believe London is any more lucrative for QF than Australia is for BA. If QF had been doing well on their European routes they would never have entered into an agreement with EK. How long will it be before QF terminate at DXB and their passengers continue to Europe on EK ? QF are an airline with big problems and this move will only offer a temporary respite.

It will be a sad day when the last kangaroo leaps down the runway at LHR
 
AussieItaliano
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 47):
I don't believe London is any more lucrative for QF than Australia is for BA. If QF had been doing well on their European routes they would never have entered into an agreement with EK. How long will it be before QF terminate at DXB and their passengers continue to Europe on EK ? QF are an airline with big problems and this move will only offer a temporary respite.

It will be a sad day when the last kangaroo leaps down the runway at LHR

I think that the EK partnership was born out of the desire to continue to operate one-stop flights to as many European cities as possible, and the realisation that QF cannot do this profitably with its own metal, even if operated by JQ on 787s.

The only options remaining were to continue to code-share with BA, thereby routing passengers from Australia-SIN-LHR-Europe or Australia-HKG-LHR-Europe or to find a partner with a hub between Australia and Europe to coordinate flights to those European destinations that cannot be served profitably by QF on its own metal.

So that begs the question, is there something special about LHR that makes it different from the rest of Europe? Can LHR still be served profitably by QF using its own metal? If the answer is yes, then LHR will stay, but if not, then it would sadly be cut.

For now, I think that QF is hoping that because of business and cultural ties between Britain and Australia, there will be enough premium traffic to make LHR profitable whilst other European cities were not. If they are wrong about that, then they are at least in a position to easily transition this service from their own metal to EK metal.
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
mdavies06
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:28 pm

RE: Bye Bye BA From Australia?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:13 pm

If BA cuts SYD whilst VS maintains SYD and launch GRU as had been rumoured, then VS and BA will effectively swap membership in the 'six continents airlines' club - how ironic!

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