Markam
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Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:13 pm

I wonder whether, wiith QF now partnering with EK on all European routes, we should perhaps expect bounce effects on Oneworld. I can imagine that BA may possibly be quite affected by this, and they are at the core of OW with QF, so... will everything be business as usual? Or will Qantas become less involved in the alliance? Would an exit or realignment be on the table?

This is of course pure speculation, but I would like to read your thoughts on the matter.
 
jetfuel
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:26 pm

How much does QF pay to be a OW member?
When does their membership expire?
What will they lose if they leave?

Personally I think they will wait and see how the EK deal pans out

LONG term I see these alliances becoming a thing of the past - ie. paying a 3rd party to do what you can do directly with other carriers
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flyby519
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:28 pm

Any chance of other OW airlines partnering with EK? Odds of EK joining OW?
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tayser
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
LONG term I see these alliances becoming a thing of the past

lol arent they already?
 
AngMoh
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 2):

Any chance of other OW airlines partnering with EK? Odds of EK joining OW?

From their announcement, it seems that QF states that EK is more valuable than OneWorld.... If I was OneWorld, I would throw QF out for bringing them in disrepute.
 
jetfuel
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 2):
ny chance of other OW airlines partnering with EK? Odds of EK joining OW?

No need

Quoting tayser (Reply 3):
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 1):
LONG term I see these alliances becoming a thing of the past

lol arent they already?

BINGO!
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AIR MALTA
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:36 pm

With the combined 7 daily LHR-DXB flights, QF is adding more competition to BA and taking pax away from their longhaul flights to feed EK at DXB as if EK did not have a big presence already in the UK. This EK/QF partnership is at the end harmful for BA and OneWorld as a whole. QF entry should be terminated.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:46 pm

This shift will change the amount of QF hubbing at LHR. So BA might not be happy.

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 4):
If I was OneWorld, I would throw QF out for bringing them in disrepute.

Why? Which member of OW? I could see BA and CX wanting them out. But AA? Seriously, AA makes too much money off QF to want to rock that boat.

I see no reason for JAL to want QF out either nor South African. Taking away QF feed from those three would hurt them. In NorthAmerica, QF would have no issue finding a new partner (DL or UA would both bid for QF's business).

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 6):
This EK/QF partnership is at the end harmful for BA and OneWorld as a whole.

Yes. But BA is not OneWorld.

Please think Globally. There are too many OW members who benefit from QF. BA won't be 100% cut off... And what would BA do if QF/AA formed their own alliance and QF left OneWorld? If QF left OneWorld, I would expect JAL to leave too.

What OneWorld needs to focus on is acquiring a strong (QR) mid-east partner ASAP! They also need to try and steal 9W from *A.

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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Yes. But BA is not OneWorld.

Yes but this deal is bad of CX, JL, BA, AY and RJ...
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Markam
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
South African

SAA are in Star, not Oneworld, aren't they?
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
Yes but this deal is bad of CX, JL, BA, AY and RJ...

Realistically, this deal isn't going to make much difference to CX, JL, AY, or RJ. There is virtually no connection between QF and either of AY or RJ today, so it will be business as usual there. There is already quite a bit of disdain between QF and CX, so that's just status quo.

The only major interest JL really has with QF is in regard to Australia-North/East Asia traffic, and that relationship will certainly continue. QF is not going to start routing those pax via DXB. There may be a handful of pax who choose an Australia-NRT-Europe routing who now choose to go via DXB, but I would imagine most people doing that instead of using the existing SIN/BKK/HKG gateways are likely making a stopover in Japan (or elsewhere in Asia) and not necessarily change their plans.

That leaves BA, who certainly will be impacted. However, we've seen no evidence that this will mean the termination of all codesharing between QF and BA, even. I would imagine BA will still codeshare on many QF services and vice versa.

Look at it this way - Qantas is breaking up with British Airways, but they'll still see each other around their mutual friends. People are acting like Qantas murdered British Airways and needs to be sent to the OneWorld electric chair.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:06 pm

Quoting Markam (Reply 9):
SAA are in Star, not Oneworld, aren't they?

You are correct, my mistake. Hmmm... It seems as if QF was already partnering a bit with *A.  
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
Yes but this deal is bad of CX, JL, BA, AY and RJ...

CX and QF haven't 'played well' for years. In fact, I suspect the JQ HKG base was motivated by that.
JL should benefit staying aligned with QF.
BA... Ok, the most hurt by this. But then again, LHR is so impacted, will they really notice? EK, by being more competitive in their connections, took a bunch of the business earlier anyway.
AY is continuing their codeshare with QF. They'll have to move a flight time, but is that a reason to leave an alliance?
RJ... How exactly is the deal bad for them other than enhancing EK?

But you didn't mention the other 'big' member of OneWorld: AA. They would be deeply hurt if QF partnered with UA or DL. Possibly to the point of liquidation!

As for IB, they will vote as BA tells them.

If OneWorld kicks QF out of the alliance, what is the point of OneWorld? Seriously. Please answer that question before proposing QF should be out of the alliance. OneWorld should instead focus on gaining a strong mid-east partner ASAP.

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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Please think Globally. There are too many OW members who benefit from QF. BA won't be 100% cut off... And what would BA do if QF/AA formed their own alliance and QF left OneWorld? If QF left OneWorld, I would expect JAL to leave too.

This deal is bad for BA, CX, AB, MH. Neutral for AA, LA, JL, AY. But I can't count one oneworld carrier that substantially *benefits* from this deal ?
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:24 pm

BA has been discussed.

How on earth is this bad for AB? I don't think the two carriers have even acknowledged the others existence, and any talk of QF flying to BER to make AB their Euro partner was just an Anet wet dream.

I similarly fail to see how CX will suffer. If anything they stand to pick up the QFFF traffic which doesn't want to go 10 abreast Y. Whereas previously a QFFF going from BNE to LHR would most likely go QF via SIN, if they find EK too cosy then CX is now their only option. QF do not route ANY pax on CX, so anybody flying CX to Europe booked specifically with CX meaning that nothing at all will changed.


Where CX may suffer is with talk of HKG becoming QF's Asia hub via JQHK (and anything else they have up their sleeve). Right now CX/KE own the Aus-China/East Asia market. However these plans are totally independent of the EK tie-up, and arguable CZ pose a bigger threat to CX in this market anyway
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:27 pm

For OneWorld, the biggest impact is that it dilutes the value of being their mid-east partner. Kudos to QF for getting ahead of that game and selecting what was best for them. I remain curious if it will be QR or EY. OneWorld needs to act quickly now.

I wonder if BA will now fly all the way to SYD? If so, via SIN or DOH/AUH?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):

This deal is bad for BA, CX, AB, MH.

AB only has it bad as it makes the AB/EY partnership of less value due to competition.
MH? I'd like to know more on how they are hurt. I think they're going to be hurt more by JQ's expansion. Or are you referring to how QF will now be able to rationally focus on Asian expansion?

CX and QF haven't played well for years. In effect, CX is almost going their own way anyway. At least independent of QF.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
I can't count one oneworld carrier that substantially *benefits* from this deal ?

I didn't say any benefited from the EK/QF deal. My point is that QF leaving OneWorld it would hurt many of the partners. There is a difference.  

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steex
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:39 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
But I can't count one oneworld carrier that substantially *benefits* from this deal ?
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I didn't say any benefited from the EK/QF deal. My point is that QF leaving OneWorld it would hurt many of the partners. There is a difference.

Exactly. Should you kick QF out of OneWorld because they made a deal that doesn't specifically benefit any of its existing partners? How would OneWorld members benefit from kicking QF out of the alliance? Most of them would not, and several would certainly be hurt by it.

Keep in mind that Australia's unique position geographically makes life hard for QF, but the fact that they are the largest player in the region makes them very desirable to any alliance.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
If OneWorld kicks QF out of the alliance, what is the point of OneWorld? Seriously. Please answer that question before proposing QF should be out of the alliance. OneWorld should instead focus on gaining a strong mid-east partner ASAP

Agree 100%. If BA and the rest of OW want to really succeed then they should focus on wooing EK into the alliance, and find a way to make global alliances more attractive, meaningful.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
MH? I'd like to know more on how they are hurt. I think they're going to be hurt more by JQ's expansion. Or are you referring to how QF will now be able to rationally focus on Asian expansion?

There was talk of having BA and QF both joining MH's hub at KUL and making it a scissor hub for all parties involved. Guess that plan is definitely going nowhere.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:56 pm

For me, its the beginning of the end of QF membership in OneWorld. I'm still quite appalled over this tie-up. It's a jump in the own digged grave, it's simply the worst move, not only for QF, also for other european carriers, including Lufthansa.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:08 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 10):
There is virtually no connection between QF and either of AY or RJ today

I believe AY and QF funnel each other passengers at the Asian airports served by both. I have seen AY ads on printed media in the past where they advertise their flights to Asian cities and their QF codeshare.

Quoting steex (Reply 10):
Look at it this way - Qantas is breaking up with British Airways, but they'll still see each other around their mutual friends. People are acting like Qantas murdered British Airways and needs to be sent to the OneWorld electric chair.

I think it is a very good way to look at it.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):
How on earth is this bad for AB?

Maybe the a.netter who made that claim was thinking of the AB-EY connection? I don't know. I agree this should be mostly neutral for AB. AB and QF do not codeshare, do they?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I remain curious if it will be QR or EY. OneWorld needs to act quickly now.

I believe QR has entered into agreements with AA and BA. Maybe them?

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
There was talk of having BA and QF both joining MH's hub at KUL and making it a scissor hub for all parties involved. Guess that plan is definitely going nowhere.

I agree. It does not seem that this plan is going anywhere now. However, BA can rely on its fellow oneworld member MH to fly its passengers to MEL, ADL, PER and BNE, right?
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 18):
For me, its the beginning of the end of QF membership in OneWorld.

Ok, Ill bite. What will QF do now? Be the Alaska Airlines of the South Pacific?

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
I believe QR has entered into agreements with AA and BA. Maybe them?

They havent yet made anything official. I know BA and QR have been talking. AA has a codeshare with EY.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:50 pm

Honestly though, hasn't QF already become more of a regional partner in OW anyway?

QF without being able to codeshare on most of Jetstar is similar to what IT would have been in India for OW. Their longhaul network, except for the Americas, is fairly useless for any significant connections to OW partners (save for the "timed" flights with BA out of SIN).
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:02 pm

It would cost QF $25m to leave oneworld so that is hardly imminent.

The need for airlines to sort out their relations with Middle East carriers may well dilute alliance affiliation. If QF and EK tie up and then QR join oneworld life is going to start getting very messy for the alliances!

[Edited 2012-09-06 13:04:27]
 
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HELyes
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
Quoting steex (Reply 10):
There is virtually no connection between QF and either of AY or RJ today

There sure are connections between AY and QF, codeshares via SIN and BKK:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
I believe AY and QF funnel each other passengers at the Asian airports served by both. I have seen AY ads on printed media in the past where they advertise their flights to Asian cities and their QF codeshare.


AY said they are happily surprised how the codeshare has worked out at SIN especially.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 19):
I believe QR has entered into agreements with AA and BA. Maybe them?

Maybe. But like 9W, QR seems to be seeking a good deal from *A. However, unlike 9W, I haven't seen any code share offer from LH. So you are probably right.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 21):
QF without being able to codeshare on most of Jetstar

Are they allowed to codeshare with EK or is it a prohibition on any code share?

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steex
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting HELyes (Reply 23):
There sure are connections between AY and QF, codeshares via SIN and BKK:

Yes, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not major factor considering that QF has also said they are keeping their codeshares with AY (and QF will certainly still fly to SIN and BKK, I would say). So where's the real harm in this announcement for AY?
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:38 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 4):
From their announcement, it seems that QF states that EK is more valuable than OneWorld.... If I was OneWorld, I would throw QF out for bringing them in disrepute.

Oneworld helps QF in the USA with AA, LAN in South America and QF will still fly to London and transfer soem traffic to BA.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
I see no reason for JAL to want QF out either nor South African. Taking away QF feed from those three would hurt them. In NorthAmerica, QF would have no issue finding a new partner (DL or UA would both bid for QF's business).

SAA is in the Star alliance but SAA and Qantas do have a code-share between Johannesberg and Perth /Sydney.

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
s but this deal is bad of CX, JL, BA, AY and RJ...

JAL has had a long history of Joint ventures with Qantas between Japan and Aussie. Emireates does NOT effect Tokyo to Sydney or Brisbane to Osaka.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 26):
Quoting AngMoh (Reply 4):
From their announcement, it seems that QF states that EK is more valuable than OneWorld.... If I was OneWorld, I would throw QF out for bringing them in disrepute.

Oneworld helps QF in the USA with AA, LAN in South America and QF will still fly to London and transfer soem traffic to BA.

Precisely. All the talk of "QF have given OW the finger" is rediculous. All that they have indicated is that Emirates is more valuable as a partner than BA. Of that there can not be any dispute.

That said the mere existence of flights to DFW and SCL (both of which are new routes) are proof positive of QF's commitment to OW when the alliance has a hub in a user friendly location.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 26):
SAA and Qantas do have a code-share between Johannesberg and Perth /Sydney.

Actually it's deeper than that, they have a JSA
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:52 pm

On the grand scheme of things QF is pretty much an insignificant part of Oneworld anyway. Australia is an extremely marginal market for most of the carriers concerned. I reckon QF will stay in Oneworld but will just become further marginalised. A bit like the UK within the EU. Still in it but not considered 'in the core'.

BA has plenty of other ways to send their pax to and from OZ. Cathay for example. And soon to be MH...and maybe even QR  
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 27):
That said the mere existence of flights to DFW and SCL (both of which are new routes) are proof positive of QF's commitment to OW when the alliance has a hub in a user friendly location.

LAN has also stated that SYD will become increasingly important to its operations in the future. LAN plans to increase capacity on the SCL-AKL-SYD route next year due to strong demand on the route, (in part due to strong demand from Brazil and the code-share with CX on the route). LAN plans to enhance its code-sharing relationship with CX in the near-term. LA will soon code-share on CX's two daily flights via AKL, instead of just one daily service, and plans to code-share on CX operated flights via SYD.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:29 pm

There is a really interesting article on CAPA analysing this exact question;

Top
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:30 pm

Let me try that link again!

centreforaviation.com/analysis/oneworlds-ba-and-qantas-may-shake-up-global-alliances-irreversibly-as-emirates-and-qatar-enter-75416
 
tullamarine
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:32 pm

Global alliances are a bit of a joke and are probably doomed. Originally they were envisaged to create global SA)">FF schemes (didn't happen), alliance wide aircraft orders (never happened) and common product (never happened).

Airlines were always going to be more interested in themselves than an alliance grouping. Successful airlines have shunned the global alliances and have gone for individual bilateral agreements that suit their needs best.

SRB may have been smart in resisting urges to join an alliance as the world seems to be turning his way and QF/EK is another example of this. So too is VA which has strong alliances with SA)">DL (Skyteam), EY (no alliance), SQ and NZ (both Star). With QF being forced to give up its partnership with SA for competition reasons, I'd expect VA will tie up with SA also.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Let's add gas to the fire...

Have you noticed the photo on the common website were both gold cards are displayed?

Frequent flyer benefits

Where is the Sapphire gem on the QF gold card? Is the image cut at that corner on purpose to avoid confusion about the oneworld (non-)involvement or something else?
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:08 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 25):
Yes, but in the grand scheme of things, that's not major factor considering that QF has also said they are keeping their codeshares with AY (and QF will certainly still fly to SIN and BKK, I would say). So where's the real harm in this announcement for AY?

I didn't say anything about harm for AY, I just commented on the post "There is virtually no connection between QF and AY".

Hopefully their codeshares will work as smoothly as they do today, I guess it depends on how much QF change their timetables. But as said no major factor really, it has just been fun to see the Reindeer routes via HEL working. I'm repeating myself but I'm still surprised HEL is the closest EU hub from SYD according to the Great Circle Mapper  
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 32):
With QF being forced to give up its partnership with SA for competition reasons

The speeches from QF's CEO noted they were keeping the partnership with SA. Well, keeping JNB as a partners gateway hub...

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 32):
alliance wide aircraft orders (never happened) and common product (never happened).

It would take a common hard product to justify alliance wide orders. I wonder why that never happened?

Lightsaber
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tullamarine
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:32 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 35):
I wonder why that never happened

It never happened for two main reasons:

- Some airlines had an advantage in their product and it was not in their interest to help another airline equal it. Alliance or not, they were still competitors.

- There was never a time when members of an alliance could all modify their product and fleet at the same time. Since global alliances have been created, the US carriers have always been in various stages of going broke, the EU carriers have fluctuated between boom and bust and the Asian carriers have been wealthy and investing heavily.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting Aisak (Reply 33):
Where is the Sapphire gem on the QF gold card? Is the image cut at that corner on purpose to avoid confusion about the oneworld (non-)involvement or something else?

I'm sure you're just reading too much into that. It's an old frequent flyer card any way, they changed the design a couple of years back and they now look like this: http://www.qantas.com.au/img/180x100/oct_10/gold-qantas-card.jpg
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:31 am

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 4):
From their announcement, it seems that QF states that EK is more valuable than OneWorld.... If I was OneWorld, I would throw QF out for bringing them in disrepute.

What would you like QF to state that the alliance between QF & EK isn't valuable???

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 6):
With the combined 7 daily LHR-DXB flights, QF is adding more competition to BA and taking pax away from their longhaul flights to feed EK at DXB as if EK did not have a big presence already in the UK. This EK/QF partnership is at the end harmful for BA and OneWorld as a whole. QF entry should be terminated.

How is this adding more competition to BA...??? BA can allocate the B744 on profitable routes... It's been stated that BA agree the JSA was no longer working between QF / BA...
Why should QFs OW membership be terminated... Please explain...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
This shift will change the amount of QF hubbing at LHR. So BA might not be happy.

QF will continue to hub passengers via DXB and LHR...

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Yes. But BA is not OneWorld.

Yes but this deal is bad of CX, JL, BA, AY and RJ...

Why is deal terrible CX...? Does CX assist QF in anyway or form? QF continues to serve Japan and has established JQ Japan as a joint venture with JL... RJ presents in OW from my view doesn't seem to contribute much at all...

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
This deal is bad for BA, CX, AB, MH. Neutral for AA, LA, JL, AY. But I can't count one oneworld carrier that substantially *benefits* from this deal ?

BA is presently getting close with QR... CX hardly cooperated with QF... AB is partly owned by EY... MH hasn't officially joined OW...

The move was a risk on QFs part but was necessary to save the flying kangaroo and QF will continue to play a key part of the OW alliance... What will OW do without QFs Domestic network....???

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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:38 am

There is still value for OneWorld and Qantas in maintaining the partnership. For starters, there is Qantas' domestic services - including all those destinations not served by CX or MH from their hubs. And for Qantas flying to Europe there is still the "equivalent domestic" intra-Europe flights to those many destinations not served directly by Emirates. Plus things like lounges and points.

Then there will still be the ability to transit in Asia from a European (or JAL) flight to a Qantas flight to Australia. Maybe the timings won't match so well (and maybe they will), but I assume that BA and AY will still want to fly to cities like HKG, SIN, BKK, PVG, NRT anyway for O&D traffic. In HKG they can take advantage of CX. If they fly to KUL they can use MH. In NRT JL (one flight a day to SYD). But Qantas will probably offer the most options - and not be directly competing on that route.

CX and MH might have more to lose from the deal than the other airlines. Then again they might pick up some of that transit business as well.

In the Americas, the Emirates deal probably has little relevance to AA and LA, but connections with Qantas still do.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:47 am

If things deteriorate on the oneworld side AA could start sending planes down to SYD and (maybe) MEL using both the 787 and the new777s. It would be a reminder to QF that oneworld in the US can make them some money.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
If things deteriorate on the oneworld side AA could start sending planes down to SYD and (maybe) MEL using both the 787 and the new777s.

Que? Even if the pilots would allow it, where would they get the aircraft from? From my understanding the new frames coming in are already tied up.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
It would be a reminder to QF that oneworld in the US can make them some money.

I take it you realise that:

(a) The USA is very lucrative for QF
(b) That they fly to DFW the sole reason of feeding AA
(c) That AA and QF have a JSA. Therefore AA flying to SYD just to 'make a point' would in fact hurt their own revenue.
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 36):
the US carriers have always been in various stages of going broke

Downwardly mobile if you please.  
Quoting EK413 (Reply 38):
QF will continue to hub passengers via DXB and LHR...

When the start the former, there will be less of the later... So I stand by my statement that there will be less hubbing at LHR.   

I'm very excited to see how the distribution changes with QF picking up EK passengers from LGW, BHX, MAN, NCL, and GLA as well as the 15 other new European destinations.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
If things deteriorate on the oneworld side AA could start sending planes down to SYD

AA and QF are very happy with their current arrangements. A new agreement would be *less* favorable to AA. They'll sit back and tell BA to relax.   

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
It would be a reminder to QF that oneworld in the US can make them some money.

The AA/QF tie up is much more than OneWorld. I doubt AA is worried at *all* about this deal. If anything, AA is talking to QF about flying the A388 to DFW or increasing frequency to DFW.

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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:59 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 38):
Why should QFs OW membership be terminated... Please explain...

Even if it were terminated, does anyone really think that AA and LAN wouldn't keep the current arrangements they have with QF? I mean AA is onto an awesome thing with all of the feed coming into LAX and now DFW and vice versa. QF and LAN have also both commented on the strength of the Chile, and South American, route since they teamed up. In a worse case scenario these arrangements aren't going anywhere.

For those arguing that QF's OW membership should be terminated, lets not also forget that OW isn't like Star. OW is a loose grouping of airlines with varying degree's of co-operation. It's more like an amicable association than anything else. Star, on the other hand, is a much closer and much more integrated alliance business. They're 2 separate models so while there is room for QF to do this and stay in OW, if QF was in Star there would be no room at all for this kind of arrangement. LH for a start would have coniptions over the very prospect of one of their alliance partners cosying up to EK.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:15 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):

If things deteriorate on the oneworld side AA could start sending planes down to SYD and (maybe) MEL using both the 787 and the new777s. It would be a reminder to QF that oneworld in the US can make them some money.

Why is everyone making assumptions that QF will be kicked out of OW, OW will not benefit from the alliance between QF & EK...? The markets change and QF had to adjust the international network accordingly...
QF has a strong presence in LAX and DFW (AA hub), SCL ( LATAM hub), NRT (JL hub), and LHR (BA hub)... Oops nearly forgot HKG (CX hub & mind you they don't even acknowledge QF anyway or form)...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41):
Even if the pilots would allow it

What do the pilots have to do with it?!@&$&@!? If AA want to operate to SYD alongside QF services it's up to airline not the pilots...

EK413
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:29 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 43):
QF and LAN have also both commented on the strength of the Chile, and South American, route since they teamed up. In a worse case scenario these arrangements aren't going anywhere.

Between April and June, Qantas carried 21,155 pax on the SYD-SCL route, compared to 14,565 pax during the same period last year on the SYD-EZE route. QF pax have the option to connect onto LAN's flights to/from AEP, COR, EZE, GIG, GRU, LIM, MDZ, MVD, PUQ, etc. via SCL. LAN even hired and trained QF's ground staff at SCL for Qantas.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:32 am

I have a very basic question that I have not seen answered. Now that QF and EK partner up, does that mean there will be a QF codeshare flight number on EK flights. (Some flights? All flights?) Does that mean that I can fly EK and get OW FF points? If that is the case, then at least for me the consequences would be significant. And I suspect for many other OW customers as well. We'd suddenly start flying EK.

And if that is NOT the case, I have to wonder why on earth would any significant number of the most frequently flying non-Australian customers ever fly QF (EK) again.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:35 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 46):
I have a very basic question that I have not seen answered. Now that QF and EK partner up, does that mean there will be a QF codeshare flight number on EK flights.

Yes... QF to carry EK flight number vice versa for EK...

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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:38 am

And trying to answer my own question, I went to http://www.qantasandemirates.com/pages.html#faq and found this:

Quote:
1. Can I earn points on all Emirates and Qantas flights?
Qantas Frequent Flyers can earn points on all Emirates flights. Emirates Skywards members can earn points on Qantas international flights and domestic sectors of an international trip.

But only Qantas FF? Or also other OW member? I understand how this does not affect an existing QF FF member, but I think a large part of their business has been with passengers from other OW alliance members who happen to be making a journey towards Australia this time. Will those passengers be shut out?

The FAQ is focused on QF FF members, it does not answer my question.
 
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RE: Will The EK-QF Agreement Affect Oneworld?

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:44 am

^^^^^
As you have discovered, in the FAQ there is no mention of this benefit extending to other OW partner reward programmes.

As the entire arrangement is subject to regulatory approval and, in any case, not commence before April 2013 I expect more information will become available as the date approaches. Arrangements for passengers travelling before then will remain as they are now.
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