iowaman
Topic Author
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Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:11 pm

This doesn't come as a huge surprise considering how G4 is always looking to save money. What I find most interesting is how passenger counts are actually down slightly for July, the first time in quite a while (at least that I am aware of) Allegiant hasn't posted healthy increasing passenger counts at McCarran:

"paying for Terminal 3 through the higher landing and gate fees and other charges borne by all the airlines, with other revenue streams contributing, has caused Allegiant to pull back the throttle locally. He did not specify what that would mean, but at least three routes were cut earlier this year for Allegiant and the flier's July passenger count was down 0.2 percent from the year earlier after rising 14.2 percent for the first six months of 2012."

"For the fiscal year that began July 1, the bundle of airline charges assessed by McCarran will average $12.06 per passenger, a benchmark known in the industry as cost per enplanement, 160 percent higher than 2006. McCarran's current cost per enplanement ranks midway among major airports after long being one of the cheaper ones."


Southwest doesn't seem to be raising a stink, however:

"Michelle Agnew, spokeswoman for market leader Southwest Airlines, said managers in the airport affairs and network planning sections "both confirmed we have not made any changes to our routes or capacity planning due to any cost considerations."


Full article on the Review Journal website: http://www.lvrj.com/business/paying-...allegiant-travel-co-168736986.html

Anyone know what AZA's enplanned passenger costs are? I did a little research and PHX is a little under $5 (but going up quite a bit the next couple years). BOI is also around the $5 range.
 
JONC777
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:12 pm

LAS is such an in demand leisure market that theres not much they can do at least G4 anyways, Although it is a hub its really a local traffic thing for them and not a tranfer point as it is for WN. WN could move some ops around but LAS is a cash cow for WN, and i am sure that WN doesnt want to give any more opportuities to NZ that it already has. . . LAS pretty much does what it wants and doesnt care what the airlines think, while most airports view there tenants as customers, LAS views them as a 'bother' figureing that no matter what someone will fill the void if someone gets p*ssed off and leaves.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:28 pm

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 1):
LAS pretty much does what it wants and doesnt care what the airlines think, while most airports view there tenants as customers, LAS views them as a 'bother' figureing that no matter what someone will fill the void if someone gets p*ssed off and leaves.

Large airport syndrome.
 
flyingcat
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:23 pm

Can they rent some bungalows and high tail it to North Las Vegas VGT??
 
bomber996
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 3):

Can they rent some bungalows and high tail it to North Las Vegas VGT??

I'm going to go with a big No on this one. VGT's longest runway is 5005 feet.

Peace   
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 4):
Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 3):

Can they rent some bungalows and high tail it to North Las Vegas VGT??

I'm going to go with a big No on this one. VGT's longest runway is 5005 feet.

There were rumors prior to their collapse that Skybus was going to fly their A319s to VGT. G4's A319s will have the same number of seats (156) as SX's planes did... but G4 will leave LAS before they move to VGT.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
JONC777
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 1):
opportuities to NZ that it already has.

and I meant NK  
 
flyingcat
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 4):
I'm going to go with a big No on this one. VGT's longest runway is 5005 feet.

If only Laughlin were closer, however given the T3 addition costs were bound to go up.

Can the authority try and save some money by walling off A concourse similar to PIT.

Can D gates absorb US?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:35 am

One of the unfortunate outcomes when airports go on building binges. The cost rise for everyone.

Personally I prefer the model where airlines can be their own masters, and chose to have as a lavish or spartan home as they are willing to self fund.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
iowaman
Topic Author
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 1):
LAS is such an in demand leisure market that theres not much they can do at least G4 anyways

Passenger counts are still down from their peak, and LAS seems very willing to accomodate any new airlines.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 5):
There were rumors prior to their collapse that Skybus was going to fly their A319s to VGT.


If anything HND (Henderson, NV.) is a better option, although not without significant investment. I would be extremely surprised to see any commercial ops anywhere but LAS unless if/when Ivanpah airport is built.

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 7):
Can the authority try and save some money by walling off A concourse similar to PIT.

Can D gates absorb US?

A is pretty well empty other than a couple US gates and I believe it will be demolished or mothballed. There is plenty of room in D, especially with UA moving to Terminal 3.
 
airliner371
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:56 am

Quote:
especially with UA moving to Terminal 3.

UA only moved their Ticket Counters and baggage claim to 3. They still operate out of the D gates.
 
Jet13
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:49 am

They are dropping LAS-FSD-LAS   Is this the reason?

-Nick
- Nick Ullom | KFSD | Flown: A320,B738,MD83,B752,MD88,CRJ2, CRJ9,E190,E175,C206T | FSD DEN MSP CVG MCO PHX OMA LAX JKJ A
 
comair25
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:16 am

Apparently its bad business for Allegiant to actually pay to utilize the airport when they are so used to paying absolutely nothing flying to the podunk small regional fields..
 
avroarrow
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:53 am

I would assume that every airline pays the same $12.06 per passenger, (since YYZ is my home airport $12.06 seems like a bargain) so from a competitive standpoint this can't hurt G4. Maybe this whole thing is meant as a Ryanair style statement to deflect blame for fare increases towards LAS and also to generate goodwill towards themselves by appearing to stand up for their customer base? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Also, as everyone knows, in July and August Vegas is only slightly cooler than hell, so they are never likely to be peak traffic months for any airline serving LAS.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:05 am

US abandoned the LAS hub, The second National Airlines based in Vegas failed, it seems to me everytime I've flown to Vegas from PDX it'sd been less than $200.00 bucks in coach, and right now it is way lower even on AS. I guess I'm saying yest there are a few high rollers and people with money that take up those 8-12 precious seats in first a lot, but I think that LAS is very low yielding, and most airlines keep a presence there as it's popular with many, many folks but most want to spend their money in Vegas rather than on getting there, IMHO. I can see why other carriers have not been as successful.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
JONC777
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):

youd be suprised how much full fare traffic there is out of LAS. Perhaps its a reason WN is sticking it out there. Back when we had paper tickets I would sometimes roll my eyes at what people were paying . . .and this was years ago. . . .just about everythime I check out bookings out of there there high. . .very few days with low bookings. . . I think US gave it up as they just decided to drop the HP business model and focus on other flying.
 
SuseJ772
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:42 pm

This surprises me a lot actually. I always thought - obviously wrongly - that LAS fees were dirt cheap because they were subsidized by the hotels / casinos / local government / etc... The idea was is we want to make it as cheap and easy as possible to get to Vegas because that town really makes its money on gambling and shows. Learn something new every day.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
KDAYflyer
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting iowaman (Thread starter):
This doesn't come as a huge surprise considering how G4 is always looking to save money

All airlines are constantly seeking improved airport landing fees and so forth. Nothing new in any of this.
 
usscvr
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:59 pm

I don't want to wander too far off topic, but how does LAS compare to other large volume domestic airports, like SFO, LAX, DFW, MIA, ORD, ATL, IAD, IAH, JFK, etc.
A:319/320/321/332/333||B:717/721/722/735/737/738/739/742/744/753/762/763/772/773/787||DC8/9/MD80/GF14/C5/C130/C141
 
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RWA380
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:22 am

Quoting usscvr (Reply 18):
I don't want to wander too far off topic, but how does LAS compare to other large volume domestic airports, like SFO, LAX, DFW, MIA, ORD, ATL, IAD, IAH, JFK, etc.

Well I don't know the figures, I can say that G4 is not complaining about their fees at LAX, but G4 is cutting LAX flights due to limited gate and ramp space. When I suggested that G4 move to ONT to handle all the LA Basin traffic for G4, a few people reminded me that ONT's fees are higher than LAX. I guess what I'm saying is just because an airport may be big and have tons of arrivals and departure, does not necessarily mean higher costs for utilizing the facility. G4 has no real other options in LAS, McCarren has been it forever and is a good facility with plenty of space for all the flights they want.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
airbusaddict
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting Jet13 (Reply 11):
They are dropping LAS-FSD-LAS Is this the reason?

-Nick

They are not dropping LAS-FSD. They are dropping LAX-FSD. LAS-FSD has long been a successful route and one of G4's original routes.
Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
 
LV
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RE: Allegiant Unhappy With Las Vegas Airport Costs

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:57 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 16):
This surprises me a lot actually. I always thought - obviously wrongly - that LAS fees were dirt cheap because they were subsidized by the hotels / casinos / local government / etc... The idea was is we want to make it as cheap and easy as possible to get to Vegas because that town really makes its money on gambling and shows. Learn something new every day.

Actually you would be surprised how much last minute business traffic there is at LAS... especially government related traffic. People don't realize the government has a huge amount of operations in the area and uses the Vegas valley as a hub. Also, there are a lot of conventions and confrences here and as someone who deals with hotel reservations a lot in my job I am surprised how many people coming to town for conferences and conventions wait till the last minute and have to pay through the nose for a hotel room (so I can only imagine with airfares are like).

As far as G4, don't forget this was said at an investor conference. The whole point of these conferences is to impress Wall Street and crying about the costs at your biggest airport is one way to convince analyst you are trying to keep costs down. There is no way G4 could be what it is without LAS. Even though it has diversified to SFB, PGD, LAX, HNL, AZA etc... LAS is still it's bread and better. I think this was nothing more than a "see we are trying to do something about our costs" cry fest.

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