PA515
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:05 pm

Welcome to Part 119 of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. In New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 118 (by 777ER 1 Aug 2012 in Civil Aviation) we discussed:
  • - Beech 1900D replacement
  • - CI Daily via SYD/BNE eff. 29 Oct
  • - Air NZ 789 configuration/deployment
  • - Air NZ PVG/KIX/SFO Mar-Jun 2013 schedule
  • - ZK-OKQ AKL-HKG-LHR Nov 1-2
  • - Air NZ Black livery
  • - Fedex MD11 visit
  • - Tongariro Ash Cloud
  • - 1900D grounding/inspection
  • - VA ceases HLZ eff. 27 Oct
  • - New FJ colours
  • - Air NZ 77E refit
  • - Air NZ 2012 Annual Results
  • - Implications of QF/EK Agreement
  • - QF Antarctic flight ex AKL
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:13 pm

I was reading the September issue of Airports International which dedicated the issue to Asia/Pacific airports including several pages covering Auckland and Wellington.

I found it interesting to note since it comes up here is the importance AKL airport and NZ tourism board is placing on China travel.

Story mentions that today China is the 5th most frequent overseas visitor, but the dynamics are changing fast and in a few years, Chinese arrivals are expected to double and become the 2nd most frequent visitor to NZ after Australians. Also the Chinese visitors to NZ already have the highest average daily spending only second to Japanese visitors.

Article mentions as part of a broader “Ambition 2020” the airport and NZ tourism authorities will strongly focus on Asia – markets like China, India, Korea to drive increased visitors and trade. Story also mentions that traditional historic markets such as the UK continue to see a downturn as part of broader global market realignment from the West to East.

Story also mentions, that as part of expanded China bilateral in April, Air NZ will be allotted 21 weekly frequencies, and how NZ airports are courting additional Chinese carrier service as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Motorhussy
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Story also mentions, that as part of expanded China bilateral in April, Air NZ will be allotted 21 weekly frequencies, and how NZ airports are courting additional Chinese carrier service as well.

I'm assuming this is exclusive of HKG rights/flights? So, eventually (projected) daily PEK, PVG plus CAN (although CZ serves that well)? And where?
come visit the south pacific
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:26 pm

Yes HK has separate bilateral agreements than China proper.

What I found interesting was the keen focus AKL and NZ tourism authorities had on China as being the premier market to attend to in the future, which I suppose will go to benefit Air NZ and reinforces its efforts to make China flying a success.

I even note the recent QF-EK deal which will see realignment of Qantas Asian service with greater focus on local demand as further affirmation that China and the Far East economies are of growing importance to carriers in the Asia Pacific region.

I suppose over time if traffic from UK continues to see declines, and US stagnates, Air NZ could be seen shifting towards an ever greater Asian focus itself.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mercure1
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:39 am

In many ways China is the market of the future for the region. The other day was reading mere 2% of the Chinese population fly at the moment. This compared to 30-50% in more industrial nations.

As China continues to awaken, and the Chinese consumer desires to travel the world and spend their new found wealth, I think many companies and nations will fight hard to earn this business.

I applaud New Zealand, which seems to have the foresight to make a concerted effort and sharp focus staying ahead of global demand trend.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:19 am

If NZ returned to PEK it wouldn't happen till after 2015 until the new airport is built in the south of the city, then they will say that 8 runways is too many for them to obtain slots!

All the focus at the moment is on PVG which going to daily by next year could help, they just need to fill the front of the plane! which is not happening.

Would they approach CAN ? could be a tricky one to go for, without hurting the HKG market

NZ tend to go for long haul routes where there the only carrier with the exception of HNL,

Where else would they likely pop up in China? I would say maybe Chengdu, Kumming - Just had a new International airport built, and maybe Xian but would be a BIG MAYBE! all theses could be done with the 787's after the 2017 time frame.

Again it's just a waiting game the next several years,
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LAXintl
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:05 am

So if ANZ is not going to be carrying this projected doubling of Chinese arrivals who will ?? Chinese carriers along with 3rd nation airlines?
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koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:41 am

LAXintl, I'd urge caution about the Chinese visitor influx.

The visitors are currently almost entirely Discount Economy tourists on package holidays. Outbound travel is over 90% VFR and students by ethnically Chinese residents of New Zealand.

The Beijing route has already failed, and the Shanghai one has just had to be downguaged from a 77E to a 763 due to a lack of demand for lie-flat Business and Premium Economy cabins. There are two Hong Kong routes operated by New Zealand, for a market which is several decades ahead of mainland China in its economic development, and one of those two Hong Kong routes is also failing.

Meanwhile other key Air New Zealand routes to Oriental markets several decades of economic development ahead of China have also failed, including Singapore, Taipei and 3 out of 4 Japanese ports.

Daily spend by Chinese visitors is high, but much of it is restricted to a narrow-range of Chinese-owned shops and restaurants to which they are funnelled by the monopoly tour operators, who also have high margins for their tours. Actual patronage of non-approved shops and restaurants is minimal because independent time on their tours is minimal.

The NZ government has a strategic investment in Air NZ, and that is in theory why the airline persists with Shanghai in spite of an inability to sell high-yield tickets. My own opinions are well-known: I consider the FASCO staffing arrangements to be suspiciously expensive as well as opaque and I wonder whether any impropriety is involved.

I have lived in Australia for some time but have friends who own businesses in central Auckland and Queenstown who report minimal patronage by Chinese visitors compared with other nationalities. They do report significant patronage by visitors from Hong Kong and Singapore, but virtually nothing by visitors from the PRC.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:38 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 7):
I have lived in Australia for some time but have friends who own businesses in central Auckland and Queenstown who report minimal patronage by Chinese visitors compared with other nationalities. They do report significant patronage by visitors from Hong Kong and Singapore, but virtually nothing by visitors from the PRC.

First I agree with what you say. the Chinese market is very different and often controlled by the tour operators. And tour operators dont bring much wealth into New Zealand nor do we see much spread on the spending.

But the VFR, "father of student" market is very different to the tour-operators. It contributes a lot to the local economy both directly and indirectly.
Ive seen figures from one well known European carbrand in Auckland showing that over 40% of the 100.000 NZ dollar plus category cars are bought by Chinese residents. In many cases its student on visas spending daddys cash. Money that goes straight into New Zealand and really contributes to the economy. Ive also seen ethnic estimations from Skycity in Auckland. the PRC nationals aren't scared to spend cash there thats for sure and SkyCity is part of the main society here. These are just examples.

While quite a few kiwis might dislike the sight of rich Chinese shopping in Parnell and Newmarket its very clear that luxury shops are depedant upon PRC customers. An associates wife manages a luxury boutique in Newmarket and she sees more than 75% of her high end sales to Chinese visitors. (Herself being HongKong Hokkien so we can say she knows the difference between PRC, Overseas Chinese and Cantonese HongKong customers.)
The money many of the VFR:s and students fathers spend in Auckland makes any finance minister wet his pants from joy. China will only become more and more important for New Zealand. if nothing else China's government will ensure that we see sizeable investments here so that they when needed will have some influence to balance the direct line where apparently the US can order the New Zealand PM and judiciary to do anything (hello illegal actions taken on direct order from the US against the fat German lad behind megaupload)

For NZ the challenge is to make these more wealthy PRC choose Air New Zealand.
At the moment they aren't, most come in on other Asian airlines. I know a diamond merchant in Auckland. he flies fortnightly to different Asian ports, always first or business class. He flat out refuses to fly NZ. This is a big issue and when I attend the European business communities gatherings in Auckland and we discuss travel hardly anyone flies NZ. Same goes for kiwi fliers heading to Asia on a regular basis.
NZ doesn't have a monopoly going to Asia thus we tend to choose the airline providing us the best benefits. Airpoints and loyalty doesnt work when there is competition and the flier has a choice...

As far as I can see, being in China is important for NZ. Its a strategic market that's growing. The key is if NZ can persuade this growing market to choose NZ and if they can attract other segments besides tour-groups and cheapest fares from Flightcentre.
If they loose the Chinese markets there is virtually nothing left in Asia.
Japan isn't a growing market nor does Japanese tourists flock to New Zealand.
Destinations such as DPS is more of the tourgroup flights just this time originating in New Zealand instead.

To be honest I think NZ has done pretty well lately in regards to their route map.
Airpoints has been devalued and turned into a shopping card. But NZ still get as many paying passengers so while some fliers will complain (and rightfully so), the bottomline doesnt. Where there is competition NZ has already lost most fliers and if your mainly flying east, TT or domestic you are likely to stick with NZ as it stands now. Sad but true.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:03 pm

The China market is slowing down like the rest of the world is, but the key is to advertise the route to start with , that was part of the reason PEK didn't work!

My partner works in a tour company here in Beijing and last year she was dealing with lots of groups and company's from New Zealand, however most were flying in on CA via SYD because no-one knew there was a direct AKL-PEK route!

Only yesterday I got the email from NZ China with special deals on, rtn to AKL from PVG for 5490 RMB + Tax only catch is that you have to book by the 16 Sep and Depart before the 23 Sep haha who's going go for that offer when all the schools and office people have gone back! SILLY!
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cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:26 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 9):
who's going go for that offer when all the schools and office people have gone back! SILLY!

Most Chinese tourists would be on group tours anyway, and those who are traveling independently would have bought their tickets.




Perhaps it would be a bit early to ask: would the black 77W be doing the one-time NZ35 AKL-HKG-LHR on the 1st of Nov?
 
mercure1
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:42 pm

You might term them as “discount tourist on package holidays” but net result is still growing arrivals in NZ from China, with them providing record spending second only to Japanese.

So volumes are growing and they are putting money into the NZ economy one way or the other. Sounds like fruitful situation to me.

If you don’t want them. Send them to French Polynesia  
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 10):
Perhaps it would be a bit early to ask: would the black 77W be doing the one-time NZ35 AKL-HKG-LHR on the 1st of Nov?

I believe this was established as a positive a few threads ago.
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:36 am

Air NZ's 2012 Analyst Presentation contains the FY16 787-9 delivery info.

Page 18, Aircraft Captital Commitments
Boeing 787-9: FY13 (0), FY14 (1), FY15 (2), FY16 (3)
The first 789 is now expected in Jun 2014, so six 789's within the 25 months 01 Jun 2014 - 30 Jun 2016.

The 2011 Analyst Presentation was as follows.
Page 15, Aircraft Capital Commitments
Boeing 787-9: FY13 (0), FY14 (5), FY15 (0)

In 2011 the first 789 was expected in Dec 2013, so five 789's within the seven months 01 Dec 2013 - 30 Jun 2014.

A six month delay to the 2011 delivery schedule for the fourth and fifth 789's would have seen them delivered in the first six months of FY15 at the latest, 01 Jul - 31 Dec 2014. Now it's FY16, 01 Jul 2015 - 30 Jun 2016.

This means the fourth and fifth 789's have been deferred by at least 12 months beyond the six month delay.

Given that the two 744's will be retired when the first 789's arrive, that leaves only one 789 for expansion or 763 retirement before late 2015.

www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/...12-annual-analyst-presentation.pdf
www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/...l-results-analyst-presentation.pdf

PA515
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:55 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 10):

The fact that the All Blacks should be on it should give some indication..
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:06 am

If were going by the number of 787's in 2014 (1) this would mean that the 763's are staying longer ? they just don't want to part with them!
I think the 744's could be staying too? but with QF just cancelled 35 frames would that have not pushed up the delivery time to early slots?
Vietnam time..
 
nzrich
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:45 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 9):
Only yesterday I got the email from NZ China with special deals on, rtn to AKL from PVG for 5490 RMB + Tax only catch is that you have to book by the 16 Sep and Depart before the 23 Sep haha who's going go for that offer when all the schools and office people have gone back! SILLY!

What would be silly is selling really discounted tickets during the peak times . One would assume the reason for the cheap seats is because there are vacant seats during an off peak time . That is called marketing and trying to fill up a seat that would otherwise go empty .
"Pride of the pacific"
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:15 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 15):
If were going by the number of 787's in 2014 (1) this would mean that the 763's are staying longer ? they just don't want to part with them!

That's one 789 in FY14 (01 Jul 2013 - 30 Jun 2014) likely to be June 2014, and the two for FY15 (01 Jul 2014 - 30 Jun 2015) will probably arrive within a few months of the first making three for the 2014 calendar year.

The 763's would be close to fully depreciated and paid for, probably cheaper to hang on to them for a bit longer.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 15):
I think the 744's could be staying too? but with QF just cancelled 35 frames would that have not pushed up the delivery time to early slots?

It seems Air NZ doesn't want 789's earlier. Will be interesting to see who gets QF's slots though.

Perhaps Air NZ will look at getting some used 777's. SQ's 1999 777-212(ER) 9V-SQG, now N321LF and owned by ILFC, has been in storage at Goodyear, Arizona since 01 April. I thought someone would have taken it by now.

PA515
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:48 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 17):

Maybe a B772LR would be better? Is AI still selling theirs?
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ZK-NBT
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:38 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
Maybe a B772LR would be better? Is AI still selling theirs?

For NZ?! Management called it a flying fuel tank so not at all likely.




Quoting PA515 (Reply 17):
Perhaps Air NZ will look at getting some used 777's. SQ's 1999 777-212(ER) 9V-SQG, now N321LF and owned by ILFC, has been in storage at Goodyear, Arizona since 01 April. I thought someone would have taken it by now.

I wouldn't think this is likely now, they may have considered it pre GFC. I think they have enough aircraft to get by until the 787s arrive.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:47 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 19):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):Maybe a B772LR would be better? Is AI still selling theirs?
For NZ?! Management called it a flying fuel tank so not at all likely.

Enable ORD/IAH/JFK/EWR to open sooner
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:07 pm

Interesting story;

Steve Ridgeway CEO of Virgin Atlantic is leaving the role because he is not happy with his pay! he told the GBO that he will stay on till the end of the year to help find a successor.

Names mentioned are

Julie Southern,the current Chief commercial officer.
Rob Fyfe CEO of Air New Zealand !! = VS becomes an LCC . . . ?
Vietnam time..
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:11 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
Maybe a B772LR would be better? Is AI still selling theirs?
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 19):
For NZ?! Management called it a flying fuel tank so not at all likely.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 20):
Enable ORD/IAH/JFK/EWR to open sooner

It depends what payload they are looking for . If NZ's longest anticipated sector is about 16hrs the 789 is good for 30 to 32t . If they want 45t or better then the 77L is the way to go.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:17 pm

As much as I have been a proponent of the 777 fleet being expanded - their window of opportunity has now closed for all except maybe the option to standardise on the 77W fleet.(outside chance - but still my personal preferred option c2011-12). I think don't expect to see any new or old 777s of any sort until the 77X - and I think there is a real chance that NZ will not order them to replace the 77Ws unless they have a real use for the capabilities by thenand if the 78-10 is confirmed the odds will increase. The time for 77L orders was ideally when they elected to order 77E instead, but even up until the middle of last year I think they may have been useful within the fleet as a means of getting to South America in particular or as a means of standardising on the GE90-115B engine/retiring the 744 fleet sooner.

The fact is in general for airlines the AKL/NZL market currently is too small to maintain continuous year round payloads of the magnitude mentioned by sunrisevalley for 77L to be worthwhile over the 789 on many markets, and those that are can are comfortably be covered by existing fleets. By the time the 789s are introduced it will be time for an entirely new product that can then be retrofitted to 77W as and when required. You can bet your bottom dollar that the 789 is still the aircraft they will get better use out of at this point in time, not the 77L

Given that the 763s are effectively redesignated as longhaul aircraft again I would not be surprised to see a short term refit to lieflat seats and some form of premium economy for NRT/PVG. They could quite comfortably function like this well after any 787 deliveries as they are 100% owned and unlike the 744 able to perform well on the routes they fly.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:01 am

From the West Australian:

Quote:
Qantas is expected to launch a daily non-stop service between Perth and Auckland as benefits of last week's alliance deal with Emirates start to emerge.

Source: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...tas-touts-benefits-of-partnership/

No indication of start date or aircraft type, or even what the source of the info was, however.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
xiaotung
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 24):
No indication of start date or aircraft type, or even what the source of the info was, however.

Interesting. Seats to Suit vs QF/EK. With forever decreasing Airpoints benefits, NZ can really only compete in the bottom of the market.
 
koruman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:57 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 24):
Qantas is expected to launch a daily non-stop service between Perth and Auckland as benefits of last week's alliance deal with Emirates start to emerge.
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 25):
Interesting. Seats to Suit vs QF/EK. With forever decreasing Airpoints benefits, NZ can really only compete in the bottom of the market.

It's fascinating, because the much-vaunted rollout of Seats To Suit has now turned to cr@p on both the Honolulu and Perth routes, hasn't it?

Both routes differ from short-haul leisure routes by having significant numbers of Economy and Business class passengers who will pay higher-yielding fares for full-service.

And Qantas and Hawaiian Airlines effectively have carte blanche to take as many of those passengers as they feel like. They will basically get virtually all full-service higher-yield passengers in Economy class because of more included bundled amenities and much more attractive frequent flyer earning.

But they also have a free run at Business Class passengers too because Air NZ has massively devalued the frequent flyer earning rates for Business Class, which is almost unprecedented anyway.

It now takes 25 return Business Class AKL-HNL trips on Air NZ to redeem an award for the same trip.
It takes 7 return Business Class AKL-HNL trips on Hawaiian Airlines to redeem an award for the same trip.

It's only three months ago that Air NZ introduced the 777 with lie-flat Business Class on its Honolulu route.

And they are already having to retreat back to the 763 because you would have to be mentally handicapped to buy a Business Class ticket on NZ ahead of HA. 150% more expensive, but only 28% of the frequent flyer earning!

And Premium Economy has been a disaster too with Australian purchasers, who found themselves seated in Economy on Tasman sectors, enviously squinting forward and watching Economy (Works Deluxe) ticket-holders occupying the Premium Economy seats which they thought they had bought.

Even if you are having your travel paid for by a business, the attraction of a free Business Class ticket three times faster on HA than NZ is irresistable.

Luxon really does need to take control of this airline. He has two major tasks above all: don't deploy S2S against full-service competitors and get away from the insane dollar-denominated loyalty program, because every devaluation is far clearer to passengers than in a mileage based program.
 
alangirvan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:04 am

Just wondering - on the effects of EK/QF on Trans Tasman. If AirNZ is buying some freight capacity on the EK operated flights, will this continue when QF are codesharing on the EK flights?
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:18 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 26):
Luxon really does need to take control of this airline. He has two major tasks above all: don't deploy S2S against full-service competitors and get away from the insane dollar-denominated loyalty program, because every devaluation is far clearer to passengers than in a mileage based program.

Yet for all your constant tales of woe and doom, the new CEO is inheriting a profitable airline.

It is no mean feat to keep any airline profitable in this day and age.

mariner

[Edited 2012-09-09 23:24:36]
aeternum nauta
 
xiaotung
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:51 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
Yet for all your constant tales of woe and doom, the new CEO is inheriting a profitable airline.

It is no mean feat to keep any airline profitable in this day and age.

To be fair, the new CEO is inheriting an airline where most of its routes have no or very little competition. I can't think of another country whose national airline has this degree of monopoly. However poorly this airline is run, it's domestic and short haul routes will always make money and it's long haul will always lose.
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:19 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 26):
And they are already having to retreat back to the 763 because you would have to be mentally handicapped to buy a Business Class ticket on NZ ahead of HA. 150% more expensive, but only 28% of the frequent flyer earning!

I'm sorry but again you spin facts that simply aren't true. The 777 to HNL was always only for a few months and the return to the 763 has been in the schedule for sometime and prior to HA announcing they would even open the route.

Why let facts get in the way of a good story though?
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 29):
To be fair, the new CEO is inheriting an airline where most of its routes have no or very little competition.

Hmmmm?

Mainline domestic has competition but with fuel at these prices, I can't imagine that the (no-compete) puddle jumpers make tens of millions.

I'm not sure what you mean by "short haul" (if it isn't domestic) but trans-Tasman has considerable competition (and Emirates). The Islands have competition.

It is operating in a country with a complex geography and a dispersed population, so that the main hub is a million people - and connecting traffic is always of less value than O&D.

It also operates under an effective, government imposed, open skies policy.

So if long haul is loss making, then I think that turning a profit at all, under these circumstances and in this economy, is remarkable.

mariner
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:37 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 24):
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...-wont-end-trans-tasman-fare-fight/

The link above also mentions AKL-ADL.. Both routes would provide more options for getting to Dubai/Europe.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 29):
However poorly this airline is run, it's domestic and short haul routes will always make money and it's long haul will always lose.

You can't make such a sweeping generalisation. NZ must be an amazingly "poorly run" airline to make a profit when so many other carriers are making big losses - or even going to the wall. Ho hum, just one more NZ-basher . . .
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 33):
NZ must be an amazingly "poorly run" airline to make a profit when so many other carriers are making big losses - or even going to the wall

Exactly. Like it or lump it for all of us critics, NZ made a profit in a year that has them $45mill ahead of VA & $320 million or thereabouts ahead of QF - that IS an achievement that is better than any ATW award..

Quoting mariner (Reply 31):
So if long haul is loss making, then I think that turning a profit at all, under these circumstances and in this economy, is remarkable.

Yes - it is.
I will be honest - While not a gigantic profit, it took many staff by surprise that it was that big. I can think of many things internally that would improve profitability further, and yes there are changes they have made which have gone down like a lead balloon, but they are still a strong unit. I think the new management will be refreshing, and the company tweaked further.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 34):
I will be honest - While not a gigantic profit, it took many staff by surprise that it was that big.

I think the more important point is that Air NZ has pretty much maintained profitability through some of the most horrendous years in civil aviation - well, WW2 might have been worse for some.

Qantas can't say that, nor can Virgin Australia, nor Cathay Pacific.

I'm not expecting radical changes from the new CEO, although - I hope - that he he may strengthen partnerships with a couple of other airlines.

For me, the Qantas/Emirates or Virgin Australia/Etihad partnerships are the way of the future for these end-of-line airlines and if looks as if Air NZ is jumping on a bandwagon, I'm okay with that.

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Kiwinlondon
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Does anyone know how CI are doing in AKL? Presumably well given they are now going daily. I do wonder how China Southern are doing, does anyone have any information on performance?

Kiwinlondon
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Quoting Kiwinlondon (Reply 36):
Does anyone know how CI are doing in AKL? Presumably well given they are now going daily. I do wonder how China Southern are doing, does anyone have any information on performance?

Not sure about CI, but CZ should be doing well, they have increased their frequency.

I was searching for a AKL-HKG-PEK ticket on NZ's website, and noticed that for the HKG-PEK leg, they now have the option of going on KA (for the last 2-3 years, the only choice was CA). IMHO this is a very long awaited move to improve NZ's position in attracting PEK bound passengers. Unless one is a die hard *A or CA fan, the CX/KA offer was a lot more competitive than NZ/CA for a similar price.

NZ has also started selling tickets on HX/UO out of HKG, for example, instead of HKG-AKL, there is now a choice of HKG-KIX on UO transferring to KIX-AKL on NZ on some dates. It probably wouldn't be wise to go HKG-KIX-AKL though, given the on time performance of HX/UO is quite poor.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting cchan (Reply 37):
Not sure about CI, but CZ should be doing well, they have increased their frequency.

CI will also start 4x a week via SYD in addition to the 3xBNE. It is obviously part of both their current strategies to the market to operate daily services. Neither carrier currently justifies the daily service loadwise yet IMO, but they have the right idea for new entrants - use correct aircraft, offer daily services, appear on all web/GDS fare searches, gain publicity and market awareness from agents willing to book them and the loads will eventually follow. It is far better than offering 2-3x a week with no market awareness because it doesn't show in any searches/FQDs unless you strike the right day. When that happens it becomes the only way to offer majorly reduced fares below anything the competition offers (as AR did to SYD)
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
alangirvan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:52 am

sorry for askiing what I should be able to look up - which days are the All Black charters operating? Will the plane fly over Dunedin? If anyone from a.net is onboard the plane it would be good if you can get some pix of Dunedin. First time a 777 has been anwhere near our city, even if only above it. Would be interesting to know what the menus are like on these special flights. - Argentine cuisine.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:56 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 39):
Would be interesting to know what the menus are like on these special flights. - Argentine cuisine

Ah by that you mean steak, and more steak  
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:52 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 39):
sorry for askiing what I should be able to look up - which days are the All Black charters operating? Will the plane fly over Dunedin?

AKL-EZE Sat 22 Sep 1940/1640
EZE-AKL Sun 30 Sep 1100/1700+1

NPE might get a look, but not Dunedin. AR used to head out over the Southern Ocean from between GIS and WLG, depending on the winds, often around NPE area.

PA515
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 41):

AKL-EZE Sat 22 Sep 1940/1640
EZE-AKL Sun 30 Sep 1100/1700+1

Will the aircraft be on the ground for a week in EZE.?
Is there a web site that will show the flight plan?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 42):
Will the aircraft be on the ground for a week in EZE.?


ZK-OKQ will be away nine days. A 744 is used on NZ6/NZ5 and a 772 on NZ8/NZ7.

Sa 22 Sep NZ6/NZ5 744, NZ8/NZ7 772
Su 23 Sep NZ6/NZ5 77W, NZ8/NZ7 744
Mo 24 Sep NZ6/NZ5 744, NZ8/NZ7 (no flight)
Tu 25 Sep NZ6/NZ5 (no flight), NZ8/NZ7 744
We 26 Sep NZ6/NZ5 77W, NZ8/NZ7 (no flight)
Th 27 Sep NZ6/NZ5 744, NZ8/NZ7 744
Fr 28 Sep NZ6/NZ5 77W, NZ8/NZ7 772
Sa 29 Sep NZ6/NZ5 744, NZ8/NZ7 744
Su 30 Sep NZ6/NZ5 77W, NZ8/NZ7 772

On Monday 1 Oct ZK-OKQ arrives from EZE at 1700 and departs to LAX as NZ6 at 1940 or NZ2 at 2230.

PA515
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:20 am

With VS switching their LHR-NRT flights to HND, might this be a cue for NZ to start thinking about the switch to HND itself?
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:34 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 44):
With VS switching their LHR-NRT flights to HND, might this be a cue for NZ to start thinking about the switch to HND itself?

This would be great for NZ, especially for connection to NH domestic flights and regional flights. But would NZ want to pay for the cost of switching to HND?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:51 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 41):

Spotted AR flying east of WLG frequently
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PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:46 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 46):
Spotted AR flying east of WLG frequently

So, could be a few of us watching www.flightradar24.com on Sat evening then?

ZK-OKQ was NZ2 Sunday returning as NZ1 Wednesday, then NZ2 Wednesday returning as NZ1 Saturday.
www.flightradar.com/data/airplanes/zk-okq

PA515
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 41):
AKL-EZE Sat 22 Sep 1940/1640
EZE-AKL Sun 30 Sep 1100/1700 1

do you know the flight numbers?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
I think the more important point is that Air NZ has pretty much maintained profitability through some of the most horrendous years in civil aviation - well, WW2 might have been worse for some.

Qantas can't say that, nor can Virgin Australia, nor Cathay Pacific.

Yes, but doesn't it all come from domestic operations, where NZ has (including its monopoly on regional flights) something in the order of 80 per cent market share? I'm not trying to belittle the profit, but with dominance like that, it's kind of the least you'd expect. Actually, it is the least I'd expect. Especially after years of very average numbers, including the boom times of 2003-2007. Which is why QF is downsizing international - domestic is still extremely profitable but it needs to realign the balance to get the overall profit situation sorted. CXis all-international and VA are on an expensive repositioning/expansion.

Meanwhile, NZ international ops continue to lose money, where they actually have to face some competition. Doesn't bode well for the company's resilience in the face of a new competitive threat. QF/JQ on domestic has been pretty a hamfisted effort care of their insistence on having an integrated Tasman/domestic fleet, meaning any delay out of Sydney very quickly reverberates across the system, undermining confidence in service and minimising the chances for corporate contracts. A decent domestic competitor (unlikely, I know) and NZ's profits dry up.

So yes, they made a profit, care of overwhelming dominance on domestic. Back patting all round. Headline numbers can be such fun.

Meanwhile, have they included employee count in this year's Annual Report? I haven't seen it yet (holidaying) but they seem to have stopped doing it of late, which makes it hard to tell what the revenue/FTE is like. Even with the 400 or so recent redundancies, I suspect there's a lot more fat to trim. Hopefully the new team can sort it.

In other news:

OneSmart - surprisingly handy for currency conversion and access. The rules and fee structure are pretty complicated though, so i'm never quite sure if I'm going to get charged something extra, and I hope they expand their currency options soon. But yeah, overall, so far (fingers crossed) a really handy tool. Have switched most frequent flyer earning to Krisflyer, so that's no longer part of the equation.

And what's this about domestic full fare flights now only earning 5 airpoint dollars? Be this so (stingy)?

Finally, someone asked in the last thread about the first ATR72-600 in the All Blacks scheme. Was in Toulouse for a week and didn't see it after a few visits to the airport, but will be back in early October and see if there's any sign or opportunity for a quick pic. It's meant to be delivered in October though, no?