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QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:13 am

Continue discussion from QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 (by tayser Sep 5 2012 in Civil Aviation).

Enjoy!
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EK413
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:00 am

Was curious if AJ had a partnership alliance with EK on the cards when he made a statement regarding a QF A333 will be rollout by years end sporting a "Special" color scheme...?

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Zkpilot
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:10 am

I doubt it unless QF is planning on adding PER-DXB to the list. It would be an A380 that would be painted I would have thought.
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ZuluAlpha
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:16 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 1):
Was curious if AJ had a partnership alliance with EK on the cards when he made a statement regarding a QF A333 will be rollout by years end sporting a "Special" color scheme...?

It was confirmed in the press release that it will be a 333? I know we have all speculated that it will be (and with all our knowledge base there is a good chance that it would be correct).

Could we see, say a picture of Australia, with red stripes, going to DXB, then more red red stripes to Europe and Nth Africa? as per the promotional video?
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denklug
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:24 pm

Back to the question if QF could be a door opener for EK to fly into STR and BER.
I like the idea that QF could start ops to both BER & STR from DXB to finally give EK access to these markets.
How would this operation be possible? In theory of course, considering traffic rights. Would a QF flight from DXB to STR or BER need to originate somewhere in Australia? On the same metal? Or could lets say a QF A330 just shuttle between DXB and STR/BER? Looking forward to your ideas regarding that scenario.
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 3):
It was confirmed in the press release that it will be a 333?

Perhaps, a special scheme for this A330 which advertises partly for Emirates (think somewhat hybrid livery), that will operate STR/BER-DXB(-Australia). Giving EK further presence in Germany, without actually going in!

-CXfirst
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting denklug (Reply 4):
Back to the question if QF could be a door opener for EK to fly into STR and BER.

Theoretically QF could launch such a service. But given that they claim to be not making any money on the SIN-FRA route, would they really want to start BER or STR? OK, the distance between DXB and BER or STR is considerably less than from SIN. To make it viable they would need to be carrying passengers to feed EK flights to destinations other than in Australia but does the bilateral between Australia and Germany allow that? In any case, my understanding of what has been said by AJ is that the withdrawal from Europe allows for the growth of routes into Asia and the US.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 5):
(think somewhat hybrid livery),

You mean something like : كانتاس Qantas  
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ZuluAlpha
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting denklug (Reply 4):
How would this operation be possible? In theory of course, considering traffic rights. Would a QF flight from DXB to STR or BER need to originate somewhere in Australia? On the same metal? Or could lets say a QF A330 just shuttle between DXB and STR/BER? Looking forward to your ideas regarding that scenario.

After the public and official press releases, there were also internal memo's that suggested there will be future employment opportunities with Qantas with this new alliance (tech crew, flight attendants?). Also I feel that QF has generous traffic rights into Germany (not sure if this will be the same for the new DXB hub).

In saying all of this, QF would have to have a third aircraft to fly into DXB (they have only committed the two A380's that fly from MEL / SYD - LHR). Would the German government allow say, a QF 333 to originate in DXB to terminate in Germany to allow a flight into BER or STR?.
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qf002
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:20 pm

Isn't the new special scheme supposed to be an Aborignal one? The comments made by Alan Joyce were in response to OEJ being repainted back into the regular livery. I don't remember the A333 being specifically mentioned either...

I doubt that they would do anything quite so permanent for this relationship, though something simple with decals could appear for a month in April (ie similar to the Olympics special livery, Rugby livery etc).
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:56 pm

It's been mentioned in several articles that the Qantas plan is to use the Boeing 787-9 aircraft from 2016 to Dubai and onwards into Europe. It is virtually certain that the options will be firmed and the aircraft ordered.

By 2016, the airline will have had two years experience with the Emirates agreement, and I daresay the 789 will allow Qantas to efficiently link smaller Australian cities (PER & ADL for example) with Dubai as well as onwards to destinations in Europe that are showing up well on the codeshare.

Does anyone know when EU open skies is supposed to happen? I would place money on QF opening DXB-CDG fairly swiftly, and perhaps BER to link in with Air Berlin. There may also be one stop service to other places such as FCO and ATH.

What the codeshare will do is permit a lot more bookings through Dubai on Qantas. I will be interested to see how much traffic is fed into Qantas. I would imagine that QF will increase freqency to DXB. They have two more A380s due around 2014 which would facilitate this, with the remaining six to replace the 744ERs from 2018.

The media and commentators seem to be focussing on the short term here - but I would say Qantas has a very interesting long term plan for the DXB hub. I also feel the retiming of flights for Asia is going to be a huge benefit. Qantas are finally going to be competing properly with other airlines - something that is long overdue.

The other interesting fact was that FRA was losing $50m a year! That is a huge black hole for money on ONE route. The other thing everyone tends to forget as their shooting at Alan Joyce for being Irish (says this Australian who has gone the other way and moved to Ireland), is that International was losing money for YEARS. When the airline was making their massive profits, all of it was driven by domestic and other areas of the business, effectively subsidising international. This move with Emirates is a game changer that will be a serious boon for Qantas in years to come.
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jetfuel
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
It's been mentioned in several articles that the Qantas plan is to use the Boeing 787-9 aircraft from 2016 to Dubai and onwards into Europe

Could you please advise sources. I would like to think this is correct but there are other rumours about
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 8):
Isn't the new special scheme supposed to be an Aborignal one? The comments made by Alan Joyce were in response to OEJ being repainted back into the regular livery. I don't remember the A333 being specifically mentioned either...

Not sure how adequate the source is but came across this link http://www.traveldaily.com.au/news/qf-on-wunula-livery/85527
Would appear the Special Scheme would be that of a Aboriginal scheme...

I hope QF roll out a special QF / EK Alliance scheme similar to KLM / NW...


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LJ
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 7):
Also I feel that QF has generous traffic rights into Germany (not sure if this will be the same for the new DXB hub).

However I doubt EK can benefit as they probably can't codeshare given their traffic rights limitations.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):

Does anyone know when EU open skies is supposed to happen? I would place money on QF opening DXB-CDG fairly swiftly, and perhaps BER to link in with Air Berlin.

Air Berlin will never feed QF in DXB. One of their owners would not appreciate this.
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:44 pm

First, thank you for starting a new thread!

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 5):
Perhaps, a special scheme for this A330 which advertises partly for Emirates (think somewhat hybrid livery), that will operate STR/BER-DXB(-Australia). Giving EK further presence in Germany, without actually going in!

I posted in the prior thread (and related) how I'm excited to see how QF uses their latent rights to Europe to feed DXB. STR (or BER, but I think STR first) would be a great start. Does anyone have a list of Australia's 'latent air service rights?' Going through the bilaterals requires finding the latest MOU too.

The gov web page:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...tion/international/agreements.aspx

A white paper that seems to be ok:
http://sydney.edu.au/business/__data...e/0020/46361/ITLS-BoA-WP-09-01.pdf

If I read that white paper correctly, Australia has an incredible 63 to 70 weekly rights to Germany!

Lightsaber
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winglets747
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:01 am

QF has indeed been very open about using the -9 to open new points in Europe.

As the 787s arrive, "I only see growth," Mr Joyce said. The Emirates partnership is a “springboard for more services back into Europe”.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...qatar-into-oneworld-81650#qfeurope

And as others have mentioned, the exercising of the -9s is all but done.
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:14 am

Quoting winglets747 (Reply 14):
As the 787s arrive, "I only see growth," Mr Joyce said. The Emirates partnership is a “springboard for more services back into Europe”.

I believe QFs absence from FRA will be short term & once the B787s arrive NEW exciting routes will be operated on QF metal... The areas of focus without a doubt would be the ports EK are restricted to expanding any further for example GERMANY...

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ADDICT4QF
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:02 am

Can we expect a A330 refurbishment program anytime soon?

I am assuming that they will be used for all QF-Asia flying to replace the A380s from SYD/MEL to SIN and the B747 from BNE-SIN in the medium term. They have no Premium Economy, no First, sloped beds in Business (which is not competitive compared to SQ, CX in some ports).

Also, what is going to happen with SYD-HKG (QF127/8) which is now a mix between B747/A380 aircraft which have First; if an A330 is used in the future, does that mean only some services will have First? After the A380 re-configuration program ceases, can we assume SYDHKG on the A380 will be daily?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated  .
 
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EK413
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:16 am

Quoting ADDICT4QF (Reply 16):
Also, what is going to happen with SYD-HKG (QF127/8) which is now a mix between B747/A380 aircraft which have First; if an A330 is used in the future, does that mean only some services will have First? After the A380 re-configuration program ceases, can we assume SYDHKG on the A380 will be daily?

We can only assume SYD-HKG would remain a A380 route 4 times a week and next question is could QF operate the QF127/128 daily with 12 x A380s?

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smi0006
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:25 am

Quoting ADDICT4QF (Reply 16):
Can we expect a A330 refurbishment program anytime soon?

I am assuming that they will be used for all QF-Asia flying to replace the A380s from SYD/MEL to SIN and the B747 from BNE-SIN in the medium term. They have no Premium Economy, no First, sloped beds in Business (which is not competitive compared to SQ, CX in some ports).

I would think that this would make sense, I know there are a number of posters here who suggest the recongifuration of the A330s would make a significant difference to a number routes (even HNL). I am excited by the potential increase in Asian p2p flying and glad to see QF beating VA to the post! I can't see SIN not having a premium economy service!
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:07 am

Quoting ADDICT4QF (Reply 16):

I hope we do see them do something soon! Perhaps when the 744's are finished? Refitting the A333's now would extend their life as regional aircraft right out to the end of the decade, when they could return to domestic to run transcon (as the 743's did and the 744's are now) for a few years before being retired from 2022ish when they are 20 years old. I doubt the A332's will get anything done though.

I'd have thought it would make sense for them to cut the 4 weekly QF87/88 rotation (which currently feeds BA's late night departures to LHR) and combine both flights together into a daily A380 operated QF127. This would free up some A333 capacity and would standardise the product on SYD-HKG.

Going off this train of thought -- what do we think QF will do with SYD-SIN? They could theoretically continue to send the A380 on a single daily flight, or maybe they could use reconfigured 744's? I think it's a market that needs the new product to work.

Having said all that though -- we could also see SYD-SIN/HKG both daily with reconfigured 744's or A330's allowing DFW to go to a daily A380...

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):

Absolutely. The existing schedules predate the return of OQA in March/April, so they effectively have a full frame of slack, plus three days a week when QF127/8 is a 744 and a plane is effectively sat in SYD.

This slack is currently allowing the reconfigurations to be completed though -- does anyone know when these will be done?
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:19 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 19):
Absolutely. The existing schedules predate the return of OQA in March/April, so they effectively have a full frame of slack, plus three days a week when QF127/8 is a 744 and a plane is effectively sat in SYD.

This slack is currently allowing the reconfigurations to be completed though -- does anyone know when these will be done?

Cheers... Thanks for clarifying...

All 12 Qantas A380 aircraft will be reconfigured. The first reconfigured aircraft (registration VH-OQD) entered service on 20 June 2012, with all aircraft completed by April 2013...

EK413
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:33 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
First, thank you for starting a new thread!

You're welcome.
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ZuluAlpha
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:01 am

One thing that was a part of the announcement was the retiming of the flights to Asia ( SIN HKG I am guessing) to allow for better connections beyond the gateway cities. Does any one have any comment or guesses what they might do with the scheduling to allow for these connections?

It also mentions in the press release on qf.com increased dedicated capacity to SIN (though SYD never had any 'dedicated capacity' , all of the SYD flights continued to elsewhere).

Quoting qf002 (Reply 19):
I'd have thought it would make sense for them to cut the 4 weekly QF87/88 rotation

So you might be onto something there QF002
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:45 am

I think a refurb of the A330-300 fleet given what Alan stated last week is a given and I reckon it will be announced soon? I also think that we'll see a return to overnight departures ex SYD, MEL, PER & BNE to HKG and probably SIN as well, given that these flights will give pax the best connections ex those Asia power cities and onto JQ Asia/JQ HKG etc. Plus there are a plethora of early morning departures to India, Europe, Nth Asia etc that would be a good solution for QF and it's pax. The only issue would be when these flights depart back to Australia, I would take it that they would be daylight departures to maximise aircraft utilisation?

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ZuluAlpha
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:59 am

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 23):
I would take it that they would be daylight departures to maximise aircraft utilisation?

Unless they sat on the ground all day, like what they do for the QF21/22 rotation to NRT. But I do admit, keeping the equipment on the ground all day does cost money where it could be earning money in the air.
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:09 am

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 23):
The only issue would be when these flights depart back to Australia, I would take it that they would be daylight departures to maximise aircraft utilisation?

Lets not forget its vital when the aircraft return to Australia due to curfew constraint airports such as SYD, ADL, BNE...

EK413
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ZuluAlpha
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:17 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 25):
curfew constraint airports such as SYD, ADL, BNE...

I thought BNE was a 24hr airport? When did it change?
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tayser
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 23):
I also think that we'll see a return to overnight departures ex SYD, MEL, PER & BNE to HKG and probably SIN as well, given that these flights will give pax the best connections ex those Asia power cities and onto JQ Asia/JQ HKG etc.

agreed, QF29 (MEL-HKG) went from a ~midnight departure to 2:30pm when the HKG-LHR tag was dropped.

SQ218 has a midnight departure ex MEL now, arrives in SIN at 5:55am - QF could easily do a similar flight on a 330 (I find it hard to believe QF would completely withdraw from MEL-SIN entirely, regardless of the EK flight (EK 405 dep 6pm arr midnight) that they could now codeshare on).

would a 10pm departure from SYD (to get out before the curfew) really be all that useful to people given you'd be arriving around 4am in SIN?! (MEL is about 20 minutes closer to SIN than SYD) That's 5 hours before normal business hours and 3-4 hours before many connections would be possible. The last departure ex SYD for SIN is SQ242 at 6pm arriving at midnight. SYD-HKG is almost identical distance/time as MEL-HKG and the 11:45 departure CX178 ex MEL arrives in HKG just after 7 - so you can see a SYD-HKG departure at 10pm arriving at HKG around 5:30am being somewhat feasible, but SIN is a bit of a worry, or?
 
vhebb
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:21 am

The current slack in the A380 fleet is to allow for the reconfig work as well as the wing crack repairs.

Once all the A380s are operational again (mid 2013) the SYD-HKG-SYD QF127/128 could easily go daily A380.

The best SIN and HKG schedule for intra Asia connections will be late night departures ex Australia and then evening departures ex Asia.... This however requires aircraft to sit on the ground all day in SIN and HKG.

Ideally you would want to offer overnight and daytime flights to SIN and HKG to match SQ and CX frequencies.

I personally don't think QF have enough Intl A330s to create the perfect Australia to Asia schedule.

One thing Joyce said is SYD-SIN-SYD will have multiple frequencies.

Interesting times ahead......
 
QF762
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:29 am

How about mid-morning QF departures to Asia. Arriving mid-late afternoon these could connect with last flights to final Asian destinations as needed. The aircraft could then turn-around after a few hours on the ground and then do the overnight flight back to Aust arriving in the early morning (to connect with the domestic network).
 
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EK413
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:30 am

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 26):

Thanks for pointing it out to me...

EK413
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ZuluAlpha
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting vhebb (Reply 28):
One thing Joyce said is SYD-SIN-SYD will have multiple frequencies

Think it will be double daily?

Any possibility that EK will introduce flights ex SYD via SIN to DXB ?
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EK413
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 31):
Any possibility that EK will introduce flights ex SYD via SIN to DXB ?

Is it possible the EK419 CHC-SYD-BKK-DXB service will be rerouted via SIN?

EK413
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6thfreedom
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:17 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 22):
One thing that was a part of the announcement was the retiming of the flights to Asia ( SIN HKG I am guessing) to allow for better connections beyond the gateway cities. Does any one have any comment or guesses what they might do with the scheduling to allow for these connections?

the flights will move to an earlier departure...
broadly for east coast, out midday, into SIN around 16:00, then back out around 20:00 for morning arrivals in Australia.

With these times it will same day onward connections to Jetstar and oneworld partners both in and out.
 
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EK413
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:25 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 33):

My prediction as discussed in another thread...

I'll predict the flights will become a lunchtime departure and downgrades from SYD,MEL & BNE...

SYD-SIN from a A380 to A330
MEL-SIN from a A380 to A330
BNE-SIN from a B744 to A330
PER-SIN double daily to daily A330
ADL-SIN daily A330 to be dropped

On a positive note I hope QF open up new routes which have previously been dropped...

SYD-PEK A330
SYD-HNL B767 upgrade A330
MEL-PVG A330

EK413
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qf002
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting qf762 (Reply 29):

I agree that morning departures ex-Australia, with overnight return flights ex-Asia will be most likely. This is what they do on the majority of their existing local market Australia-Asia services (ie SYD-BKK, SYD-PVG, SYD-HKG QF127/8, SYD-MNL, SYD-CGK - I think NRT is definitely the exception, because of the length of the flight and the nature of the market) and allows for passengers to access the peak evening departure banks for Asian connections in both directions. It's also pretty efficient, in that a single frame can operate daily on any flight up to about 9-10 hours with 2 hour turns at either end.

With 14 international A330's, plus perhaps 2 frames worth of 744 capacity, QF should be able to operate 15 or so daily Australia-Asian flights. I look forward to it  
Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 31):

But how many on QF? JQ could be on the cards from SYD given TZ's recent arrival (although MEL/AKL-SIN have appeared to perform poorly), and there's the EK option as you say.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 32):

Very possible IMO. It would ease pressure on QF's services to BKK as well, which is a big plus given that they might be about to lose feed from BA. The old QF1/2 flights were always packed with LHR bound pax with only a few leaving the flight in BKK -- I doubt it's performing particularly well without the onward leg and it will do even worse with this latest change... Perhaps it could even be a JQ candidate if QF has a better use for the plane? Having written my next response below, it also occurs to me that JQ could operate the second SYD-SIN and QF could drop SYD-BKK using EK to carry local traffic on this route with no changes to their service.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 34):

I agree, except I think SYD-SIN should be good for a reconfigured 744 (ie the one that is currently supposed to be operating BNE-SIN). They will also have a second daily (afternoon/evening) flight out of all three east coast cities through either JQ or EK (perhaps JQ's MEL-SIN could move to SYD?). I'm also hoping that ADL-SIN isn't dropped completely, though it's not looking promising.
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 10):
Could you please advise sources. I would like to think this is correct but there are other rumours about

Reply 14 had one of the articles. I had also read it in either one or two others - hence why it stuck in my brain!  
Quoting LJ (Reply 12):
Air Berlin will never feed QF in DXB. One of their owners would not appreciate this.

No, AB would not fly BER-DXB. However, QF could well fly from DXB-BER, couldn't they? They could also codeshare on the AB network.
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Lufthansa
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:06 pm

I have something interesting to report.

Now this is STRICTLY just a rumour because it's 2nd hand information, but I have heard,
that dash 8 pilots are being told prepare to start flying A330s! The plan apparently is
EK's remaining A332s are coming to QF short haul... for service to Asia. Obviously they
will need a refurbishment, and they are some of the oldest 332's out there but if they were gutted
fitted with skybeds and A380 products they could easily reach PEK etc without weight restrictions
and are a good size aircraft for service particularly from Melbourne and Brisbane north... were a
747's capacity is probably too big. I think they have 12 or so left... and the RR engines obviously can
still go to DXB for maintenance. Maybe even route them through that way via a PER-DXB flight...it would
make it!
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 37):
Now this is STRICTLY just a rumour because it's 2nd hand information, but I have heard,
that dash 8 pilots are being told prepare to start flying A330s! The plan apparently is

If you said prepare to start flying B77Ws then I'll believe you!!! 

Personally I wouldn't believe it until I see some solid proof and again QF need B77Ws not A330s  

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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 38):
Personally I wouldn't believe it until I see some solid proof and again QF need B77Ws not A330s

Rather than add the complexity of a new type, I think Qantas should grab all the A330's it can get.  

mariner
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:58 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
Rather than add the complexity of a new type, I think Qantas should grab all the A330's it can get.

Personal preference is the B77W and complexity  

On a much more serious note how many A330s in the EK fleet...?

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Lufthansa
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:12 am

Well two things. If it is indeed short haul operating these as it's cheaper than a330 make sense as short haul cabin crew can only fly 3 aircraft types. Also ah said no investment into long haul until it starts returning the cost of capital. This would be an investment into short haul. It also explains the capacity gap. It adds up.
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:54 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
Rather than add the complexity of a new type, I think Qantas should grab all the A330's it can get.

Seems like a significant investment to gut old EK A330s and bring them up to QF standard, for only a few years before the 787s arrive. Not to mention they have repeatedly stated no capital investment until profitable.

Would the forward cabin floors of the EK A330s even be able to support the weight of the Skybeds? I know some of the old QF ones were ordered with lighter floors that couldn't.

Rumours are abound at the moment as is natural, my favourite QF will be getting EK delivery slots in exchange for LHR slots.... hmmmm - Doubtful.

I personally don't think we will see any such drastic changes. How long before regulatory approval is given and announcements are made regarding Asian flying?
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:18 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 42):
Seems like a significant investment to gut old EK A330s and bring them up to QF standard, for only a few years before the 787s arrive. Not to mention they have repeatedly stated no capital investment until profitable.

Firstly he said no investment in INTERNATIONAL -LONG HAUL. He didn't say no investment in short haul, and as it is today, short haul can do 8.5 hr flights into Asia, and there are rumors going around by the new short haul CEO on his road tour saying 'get ready to do Asian regional flying". I know for a fact he said it to one CSM I know.

Would the forward cabin floors of the EK A330s even be able to support the weight of the Skybeds? I know some of the old QF ones were ordered with lighter floors that couldn

Should be able to. Those earlier 332s currently at JQ were specially modified for the purpose of saving weigh from the standard 332 because they were intended to be cityflyer aircraft. Emirates had theirs withe intention of flying them long haul and fitted plenty of them with 3 classes, including heavy looking F seats with electronic controls/motors etc.

As for the investment... it might not be as bad as people think. After all the 747-400s are getting it for a mere 5 years of service. And, im not sure but perhaps its possible to use some of the seats (refurbished of course) just pulled out of the holder 744s? Basically they'd need new dreamtime seats, probably new economy seats, matching entertainment system, new bulkhead laminates (can't have the desert sand dunes on a QF aircraft) and mood lighting installed in J..(though it would be nice to see it extend the entire cabin). They could probably get away with the existing bins fine. Oh and probably a refresh of the lavs. This work could be done cheaper in DXB by indians working for emirates before QF takes delivery of the aircraft. 12 aircraft isn't that much. 4 for BNE SYD and MEL each would be enough for short haul to operate 2 services a day to both singapore and hong kong from each city. A day time and a night time in each direction, yet probably only a similar amount of capacity to a single 744 flight. Not a bad idea.
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:20 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 42):
Seems like a significant investment to gut old EK A330s and bring them up to QF standard, for only a few years before the 787s arrive. Not to mention they have repeatedly stated no capital investment until profitable.

Firstly he said no investment in INTERNATIONAL -LONG HAUL. He didn't say no investment in short haul, and as it is today, short haul can do 8.5 hr flights into Asia, and there are rumors going around by the new short haul CEO on his road tour saying 'get ready to do Asian regional flying". I know for a fact he said it to one CSM I know.

Would the forward cabin floors of the EK A330s even be able to support the weight of the Skybeds? I know some of the old QF ones were ordered with lighter floors that couldn

Should be able to. Those earlier 332s currently at JQ were specially modified for the purpose of saving weigh from the standard 332 because they were intended to be cityflyer aircraft. Emirates had theirs withe intention of flying them long haul and fitted plenty of them with 3 classes, including heavy looking F seats with electronic controls/motors etc.

As for the investment... it might not be as bad as people think. After all the 747-400s are getting it for a mere 5 years of service. And, im not sure but perhaps its possible to use some of the seats (refurbished of course) just pulled out of the holder 744s? Basically they'd need new skybed seats, probably new economy seats, matching entertainment system, new bulkhead laminates (can't have the desert sand dunes on a QF aircraft) and mood lighting installed in J..(though it would be nice to see it extend the entire cabin). They could probably get away with the existing bins fine. Oh and probably a refresh of the lavs. This work could be done cheaper in DXB by indians working for emirates before QF takes delivery of the aircraft. 12 aircraft isn't that much. 4 for BNE SYD and MEL each would be enough for short haul to operate 2 services a day to both singapore and hong kong from each city. A day time and a night time in each direction, yet probably only a similar amount of capacity to a single 744 flight. Not a bad idea.
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 42):
How long before regulatory approval is given and announcements are made regarding Asian flying?

What are the chances of the regulators knocking back the proposal and has it happened in the past...? I'm curious to know...

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 43):
Should be able to. Those earlier 332s currently at JQ were specially modified for the purpose of saving weigh from the standard 332 because they were intended to be cityflyer aircraft.

Let's not forget only the 1st 4 frames have the weight saving floor EBA,B,C and D...

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jetfuel
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 45):
What are the chances of the regulators knocking back the proposal and has it happened in the past...? I'm curious to know...

They have been conditioned already with the HUGE international losses - that was all part pf the politics
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:29 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 46):
They have been conditioned already with the HUGE international losses - that was all part pf the politics

Cheers... So it's safe to say the money loser QF international will go in their favor... Let's wait and see how VA strike back...

EK413
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mal787
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:34 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 47):
Let's wait and see how VA strike back...

Lets see if SRB or JB put a banner on all aircraft "QF&EK" no way !!!
mal787
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RE: QF & EK Announcement - 10am Aest 6/9/12 Part 2

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:43 am

Quoting mal787 (Reply 48):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 47):
Let's wait and see how VA strike back...

Lets see if SRB or JB put a banner on all aircraft "QF&EK" no way !!!
mal787

& I wouldn't be surprised if happens...


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