doulasc
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Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:32 am

Cubana Airlines continued to have flights from Havana to Toronto and Montreal after the Castro Embargo of 1959.
My question is in the 1960s-1980s and beyond was Cubana allowed to fly over US air space on a flight from
HAV-YUL/YMX or was Cubana required to detour and fly over the Atlantic Ocean to avoid US air space then
turn into Canada once north of US air space? Also in early times were US carries allowed to fly over Cuba
on their way from Miami to Jamaica or northern South America?
 
26point2
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:47 am

Not sure about the Cubana routes but US registered private flights route across Cuba every day and have for decades. I have done it many times. North Korea is a very different story in case you wonder.
 
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vhqpa
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:57 am

According to flightaware they overfly the USA.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...0/history/20120908/2200Z/MUHA/CYUL

Although I presume that A320 is a wet lease operation it might be a different story if they tried to send say their Tupolev 204 across.

It would be interesting to see how a potential emergency landing would be handled.
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BMI727
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:01 am

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 2):
It would be interesting to see how a potential emergency landing would be handled.

They would certainly be allowed to land at a US airport if necessary. What might be interesting is what would become of any Cubans who took the opportunity to request asylum during their unscheduled stop. Presumably they would be allowed to remain in the US.

Also I should add that I think the aircraft would be seized in such a scenario as partial repayment for American assets taken during the Communist revolution.

[Edited 2012-09-08 22:06:52]
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iFlyLOTs
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:14 am

I thought I read somewhere (Airways mag?) that they had to take specific routes over the US for various political reasons.
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ADent
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:45 am

How does Cubana work the TSA Secure Flight program?
 
Superfly
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:53 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
They would certainly be allowed to land at a US airport if necessary. What might be interesting is what would become of any Cubans who took the opportunity to request asylum during their unscheduled stop. Presumably they would be allowed to remain in the US.

That already happened once before in Miami.


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Quoting vhqpa (Reply 2):
might be a different story if they tried to send say their Tupolev 204 across.

Why?
The TU-204 is a modern aircraft that meets all US FAA safety requirements as well as the necessary stage III noise abatement regulations.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Acey559
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:12 am

Just heard the Cubana callsign last week when I was flying between Montreal and New York so they certainly do fly over the US as already proven by vhqpa.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:02 am

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 1):
North Korea is a very different story in case you wonder

Yep...ATL-ICN...Over the top, over Russia, south to China, hang a right just to the north of PRK, circumvent PRK airspace, approach ICN from the south.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
kaitak
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:47 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
They would certainly be allowed to land at a US airport if necessary. What might be interesting is what would become of any Cubans who took the opportunity to request asylum during their unscheduled stop. Presumably they would be allowed to remain in the US.

What might be even more interesting is what would happen to any Americans who happened to be on board; it has been known for US citizens to fly to Canada in order to get to Cuba. Also, would the TSA make a note of the names of pax, in case they wished to enter the US in the future?
 
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vhqpa
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:09 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Quoting vhqpa (Reply 2):
might be a different story if they tried to send say their Tupolev 204 across.

Why?
The TU-204 is a modern aircraft that meets all US FAA safety requirements as well as the necessary stage III noise abatement regulations.

In my original reply I wasn't questioning whether or not a particular aircraft could overfly the USA. I'm not 100% sure on the specifics of the US-Cuba embargo but while the A320 operated by a particular airline on behalf of Cubana doesn't seem to pose a problem. It could be a problem if Cubana where operating the flight themselves. I was just using the Tupolev 204 as an example I apologise that my reply was poorly phrased.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
rutankrd
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 10):
I was just using the Tupolev 204 as an example I apologise that my reply was poorly phrased.

The ty204-100c goes up to Canada on cargo flights regularly.

Both authorities pay their dues and US carriers operate daily charters into Havana.

Cubana are however embargoed from operating into US airports however not from US airspace whilst in transit to Canada along specified routes.

Medical/mechanical diversions would be of NO issue and i doubt that the Cubana craft would be seized .

That said Cubana does employ leased aircraft in the main.
 
skywaymanaz
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:45 am

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 2):
It would be interesting to see how a potential emergency landing would be handled.

There was an emergency with Air Transat flight 961 VRA-YQB in '05 when the rudder detached and fell away. The crew immediately diverted to FLL but somewhere along the line felt comfortable enough controlling the plane to divert back to VRA instead. Canadian crews in particular are probably under pressure not to divert to the US on the route.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
What might be even more interesting is what would happen to any Americans who happened to be on board; it has been known for US citizens to fly to Canada in order to get to Cuba. Also, would the TSA make a note of the names of pax, in case they wished to enter the US in the future?


Not sure if it would be TSA but probably someone under the DHS umbrella. Looking for American tourists and Canadian businessmen due to the Helms-Burton act. This was an issue that came up when the US demanded all Canadian passenger manifests on routes crossing the US. I think a compromise was reached in that the names are cleared w/o noting the flight number so DHS only knows "J. Doe" is a passenger on a Canadian airline and could be YYZ-YVR (crossing Michigan) or YYZ-HAV (crossing east coast). I'm sure Canadian airliner crews would say publicly they would not allow safety to be compromised in an emergency and would land in the US if necessary. Air Transat inicident though indicates a clear willingness on that crews part not to risk landing in the US.
 
tofen
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:21 am

What happened to the AN-24 that was sitting in Key West? Is it still there?
 
Superfly
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:34 am

Quoting tofen (Reply 13):
What happened to the AN-24 that was sitting in Key West? Is it still there?

I think that was sold on Ebay.

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 10):
I was just using the Tupolev 204 as an example I apologise that my reply was poorly phrased.

No problem. Understood.
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Cadet985
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:39 am

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 2):
It would be interesting to see how a potential emergency landing would be handled.

Isn't there some UN treaty that if an aircraft is experiencing an emergency, that it can land at the nearest airport that can handle the aircraft? I tend to remember a US carrier having to make an emergency landing in Cuba within the last couple years.

Marc
 
blueflyer
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Also I should add that I think the aircraft would be seized in such a scenario as partial repayment for American assets taken during the Communist revolution.

It won't happen.

If the emergency is medical in nature, the aircraft will probably be back in the air before a judge has a chance to sign off on a seizure order.

If it is another emergency and the plane is on the ground longer, expect the FAA, DOT and ATA to make every effort to block a seizure. If a Cuban aircraft is seized in the US for reparation, one of two things will happen.

Either a US aircraft will be grounded in Cuba (US-owned/registered aircraft fly to Cuba every day on government-sanctioned charters) until the Cuban aircraft is returned, or US airlines will be told to fly around the island on the way to and from Miami.
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COSPN
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:32 am

Yes Northwest landed a DC-10 in THR and the Iranians fixed it and sent it on its way....All countries are part of ICAO a UN divison based in Montreal that takes care of international regulations..

US Airliner Makes Emergency Landing At Tehran (by JoKeR Jun 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=2178630&searchid=2178723&s=iran+dc10+northwest#ID2178723
 
727LOVER
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:01 pm

Wonder why hurricane hunters cant fly over Cuba?
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RobertS975
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:41 pm

US/Cuba relations may go through the public posturing that we have all come to know, but in terms of aviation, things are much calmer. There are two VFR and IFR corridors that cross over Cuba for civil aircraft to overfly the island. Also, for decades, there have been period scheduled charter flights from some Florida airports to HAV. And indeed, CU airliners have been overflying the US for years on routes to YUL and YYZ.

US residents that want to travel to Cuba have had easy access through Canada and Mexico for many years.
 
COSPN
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:41 pm

Probally are not members of ICAO it is for Civ Aviation, not Military or Private Aviation
 
ghYHZ
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:51 pm

Several scheduled charter flights to/from the US use Havana every day. Here’s the Arrivals/Departures at HAV for today on Flight Aware……even includes an American Airlines 737.

http://flightaware.com/live/airport/MUHA
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:54 pm

A little correction. Cubana in the 1970s did fly to YMX but not YYZ. AC did all the Toronto to Cuba flights. I have OAGs from the 1970s. The block times from YUL/YMX to Cuba on AIr Canada were about 3-3.5 indicating a direct routing. On Cubana the block times were 4.5-5 hours. I recall that Cubana had to fly northeast from Montreal around Maine over New Brunswick then out over the ocean. They were not allowed to fly over USA air space. Today there is no problem.
 
Boeing727
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:07 pm

Early August one of their flights had to turn around back to YUL...not sure why, but elected to return to Canada rather than landing in the US.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/C...1/history/20120804/2235Z/CYUL/MUHA

Boeing727
 
ghYHZ
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:11 pm

Gander was a major refueling point for Eastern Bloc airlines such as Interflug, CSA, Aeroflot on their routes to/from Havana. Newfoundland was far enough east into the Atlantic that a direct route between Canada and Cuba did not require a US overfly.

Passengers were required to deplane in Gander during refueling and many defections took place here (Last paragraph here under “Transatlantic Refueling”)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gander_International_Airport
 
DesertAir
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:15 pm

While returning from Quito, Ecuador on AA in 2009 we flew directly over Cuba.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
Wonder why hurricane hunters cant fly over Cuba?

If you're talking about the WC-130J's, they're military aircraft; if you're talking about the NOAA, that's a US governmental agency. Don't know how true it is, but I had heard that ships/aircraft going to Gitmo have a very narrow corridor they're allowed to pass through.

Marc
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 25):
returning from Quito, Ecuador on AA in 2009 we flew directly over Cuba.

Same with AA SJO-MIA every day as well as the other South Florida - Central America segments.
These routes have been active for decades.

Regards.
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RP TPA
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 22):
A little correction. Cubana in the 1970s did fly to YMX but not YYZ. AC did all the Toronto to Cuba flights. I have OAGs from the 1970s. The block times from YUL/YMX to Cuba on AIr Canada were about 3-3.5 indicating a direct routing. On Cubana the block times were 4.5-5 hours. I recall that Cubana had to fly northeast from Montreal around Maine over New Brunswick then out over the ocean. They were not allowed to fly over USA air space. Today there is no problem.

Sounds a lot like what used to happen on the London to Johannesberg flights years ago. British Airways and South African Air both used 747-400s on this route, but the BA block time was hours less than SA. This was during apartheid, and because Great Britain opposed apartheid, BA was given overfly rights by the other African countries. SA was denied that right, and was forced to take a much longer route around the continent.
 
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:40 pm

Most the of responses to the OPs question was in regards to recent flights. His question was in regards to 60s-80s during the peak of the Cold war? Were those flights allowed into US airspace or did they circumvent? And vice versa flights from the US to S. America and Caribbean destinations. And were there limitations on certain airlines?

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longhauler
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:46 pm

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 12):
Canadian crews in particular are probably under pressure not to divert to the US on the route.

It is never even remotely an issue, nor a consideration.

In the last 20 years or so, I have landed in the US twice on Cuban flights. Once in a B737 VRA-YYZ, we landed in CLT with a possible engine fire, and once in an E190 YYZ-HAV, we landed in PHL with a possible fuel leak.

While it may appear in some instances that the US was avoided, it is probably more likely that if something occurs that does not allow continuation to the destination, but is not urgent of nature, often for commercial reasons or passenger handling, it is better to return to the point of departure.

I have heard rumours in the past that Cubana was not allowed in US airspace, I think in terms of reciprocity is it no longer feasible. Namely there are far far more American carriers transiting Cuban airspace than Cuban carriers looking to cross the US. If the US wished to enforce an American airspace embargo, it would likely affect American carriers far worse, as they would not be allowed through Cuban airspace as a result.
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longhauler
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
My question is in the 1960s-1980s and beyond was Cubana allowed to fly over US air space on a flight from HAV-YUL/YMX or was Cubana required to detour and fly over the Atlantic Ocean to avoid US air space then
turn into Canada once north of US air space?

Also ... what qualifies as "US Airspace"? As New York Oceanic controls airspace south of Gander Oceanic, to half way across the Atlantic, south to just north of San Juan. An aircraft flying from YMX (for example) to HAV, would have to fly about 300 miles east of Newfoundland, then fly straight south, passing about 300 miles east of Bermuda to just north and east of Antigua, then straight west across the Caribbean to HAV. About 10 hours flying time by my best estimate!

As that was not done, one would have to assume that US Airspace was overflown by Cubana. Then the issue might be, "not to fly over US land", that becomes feasible, adding a couple hours to the flight. A routing might be from YMX to over New Brunswick then south off the coast of the US toward the Bahamas, then back west toward Cuba.

Was there really that distinction? That is was acceptable in US Airspace, but not over US land?

I started airline flying in the early 1980s. At that time, Cubana was flying over the US, and American carriers were flying over Cuba.
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AAIL86
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:24 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 27):
Same with AA SJO-MIA every day as well as the other South Florida - Central America segments.
These routes have been active for decades.

75% of Miami- MCLA flights probably overfly Cuba at some point. It would be an enormous waste of flying time and gas otherwise ....
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LAXintl
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:19 pm

Getting back to OP'er question

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 4):
I thought I read somewhere (Airways mag?) that they had to take specific routes over the US for    During the cold-war days Cubana routings in the US were indeed restricted to specific airways, which were designated to keep the aircraft clear of military or high value commercial installations. US was worried about arial photography.

These routes were actually a pain even for US controllers as during times of weather, or large ATC volume, Cuabana aircraft could not be deviated much to work around issues.

[quote=Cadet985,reply=15]Isn't there some UN treaty that if an aircraft is experiencing an emergency, that it can land at the nearest airport that can handle the aircraft?

Never heard such. I know there is a law on the sea that one is to render aid, but not aware of aviation.

Remember also, there is no inherit right to entry and transit of airspace of any nation. Its a privilege and right.

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 22):
I recall that Cubana had to fly northeast from Montreal around Maine over New Brunswick then out over the ocean.

Also correct. At various times like how Aeroflot kept getting banned form the US, the Cubans would have their rights removed and need to transit the long way to Canada.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
Was there really that distinction? That is was acceptable in US Airspace, but not over US land?

Actually there is a distinction for transit of landmass versus oceanic airspace. For instance to transit Oceanic airspace all you need to do is file the flight plan, to transit over land mass, you need overflight authority. The US makes the distinction if you plan on penetrating the ADIZ.
And not just in the US, but overseas also -- Philippines is a classic case in Far East where you can fly off the coast as you wish and get ATC services from Manila, but require overflight permits if you pass over landmass.
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harleydriver
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:58 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 31):
Also ... what qualifies as "US Airspace"? As New York Oceanic controls airspace south of Gander Oceanic, to half way across the Atlantic, south to just north of San Juan.

U.S. airspace, and its internationally recognized as the same for all countries bordering an ocean or sea is 12NM. Take Wikipedia for what it's worth but this is correct:

By international law, the notion of a country's sovereign airspace corresponds with the maritime definition of territorial waters as being 12 nautical miles (22.2 km) out from a nation's coastline.

NY Oceanic is the controlling agency but they have no authority over who operates in that airspace. NY Oceanic controlling airspace is well off the coast, much further then 12NM so it's completely feasible and much more likely that Cubana would be talking to individual U.S. Centers that control the airspace over the water then oceanic air traffic control.

I am an aircrew member on a USAF aircraft and have been to Guantanamo Bay a couple of times and also was a mission planner and we plan on staying in international airspace to the east of Cuba between Cuba and Haiti and then under Guantanamo Bay air traffic control follow their instructions to the base.
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:19 pm

Years ago, Cuban flights couldn't overfly the US and vice versa for US flights over cuba.

Eventually, a couple corridors were opened up to overfly cuba.

Moving on to today, Cuban airspace is really just like many other countries. You have to have an over flight permit, and they charge for handling the flight, but there are no longer corridors over Cuba... just airways. It is routine to get cleared direct from your entry point to your exit point in their airspace, and they are very flexible with weather deviations (and coordinating that with Miami center).

Hundreds of flights overfly Cuba daily.

And Cubana routinely flies over the US with normal handling as well.
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N766UA
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:33 pm

Cubana flies right over the mainland US every day and has for many years.
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pnwtraveler
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:00 pm

I saw Cubana leave Toronto on Friday evening and it wasn't the normal TACA A320 but another tail that I hadn't seen recently. So either a different TACA version or a wetlease from someone else. It was night so I couldn't get a great look. I like seeing the Tupolev Cargo flight as it is unique seeing a different aircraft from the usual.
 
N766UA
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:53 pm

Cubana overflies the mainland US every day and has for many years.
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timz
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 19):
And indeed, CU airliners have been overflying the US for years on routes to YUL and YYZ.

And not just the A320s. In the 1990s I used to see Il62s and Tu154s contrailing northwestward over New York City in the afternoon-- both were pretty easy to recognize with binoculars, tho don't know if I ever heard them on 125.325 MHz.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:20 pm

The transit fees the US pays Cuba for overflights, amount to one of the largest sources of hard currency for the island
 
Viscount724
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:05 pm

According to this 1998 ICAO press release, Cuban aircraft were limited to routings that avoided overflying the US between Canada and Cuba except for a small part of the New England states (likely Maine). In 1998 an agreement was reached to permit more direct routings over the US.
http://legacy.icao.int/icao/en/nr/1998/pio199805_e.pdf

This was all discussed previously in this 2008 thread.
Does Cubana Have US Overflight Rights? (by Ssides Oct 21 2008 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-09-09 16:42:58]
 
ltbewr
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:17 pm

I recall that Cubana could overfly the USA from Cuba to Canada but especially in the USSR days, had to take specific routes so not to overfly USA military bases, especially where missiles were based so couldn't spy on them. I believe years ago overfly rights were suspended for a while when they overflew too close to a missle base in upstate NY State. Even today, I suspect they are only allowed to fly certain routings.

Certainly if there were a medical or mechanical emergency, they could land at a USA airport suitable to handle their aircraft, although passengers would not be able to leave the a/c and 'touch land' as much as possible or if they had to, had to stay in a secure area with no access to off the airport.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:37 am

How do aircraft flying to gitmo fly? I was looking at a map and the western end of gitmo runway is only 2 miles or so from Cuba.
 
cmf
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 42):
The transit fees the US pays Cuba for overflights, amount to one of the largest sources of hard currency for the island

Do you have statistics to back up this claim?
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
timz
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Years ago I used to see Il62s and (later?) Tu154s contrailing NWward over New York City. I would have guessed it was before 1998, but maybe not-- when did Cuban quit fly Russian airliners to YUL?

HAV-YUL nonstops didn't start until around 1976. In 3/77 the Cubana DC8 was scheduled 25 minutes slower than AC's D8S in one direction and 5 min slower in the other.
 
N312RM
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 29):
Most the of responses to the OPs question was in regards to recent flights. His question was in regards to 60s-80s during the peak of the Cold war? Were those flights allowed into US airspace or did they circumvent? And vice versa flights from the US to S. America and Caribbean destinations. And were there limitations on certain airlines?

While not a common occurrence, there were occasions when flights were denied entry into Cuban airspace and were forced to fly around the island in the '60's at the height of the Cold War. I recall one such instance when a BW B727 flying the MIA-GCM-KIN-POS route was forced to do just that. The flight inadvertently entered Cuban airspace along the west coarst and a couple MIG's were scrambled to escort it out of their airspace. When this happened, flights would often have to stop in GCM to refuel.
 
ScottB
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
What might be even more interesting is what would happen to any Americans who happened to be on board; it has been known for US citizens to fly to Canada in order to get to Cuba. Also, would the TSA make a note of the names of pax, in case they wished to enter the US in the future?

I'm not sure how much TSA would care, but I suspect the names of any Americans on board would be passed to OFAC (part of Treasury) to investigate whether those persons possessed a license to engage in travel-related transactions with Cuba.

Quoting vhqpa (Reply 10):
I'm not 100% sure on the specifics of the US-Cuba embargo but while the A320 operated by a particular airline on behalf of Cubana doesn't seem to pose a problem. It could be a problem if Cubana where operating the flight themselves.

The specifics are that generally CU can't purchase aircraft with U.S.-manufactured content as these would prohibited under the sanctions. Therefore, if they want the use of modern, Western aircraft they're forced to wet lease.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:40 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 18):
Wonder why hurricane hunters cant fly over Cuba?

They could until the Cuban Missile Crisis - and then it was documented that some of the US Navy WC-121s had special cameras installed so they could take pictures while over Cuba. This was told to me by a USN Chief in 1972/3 who had been on some of those aircraft back at that time.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 26):
but I had heard that ships/aircraft going to Gitmo have a very narrow corridor they're allowed to pass through.

Yes. Military aircraft approaches from the north fly close to Haiti, then about 25 miles south of Cuba and then up an approx 8nm wide corridor due north to reach the US area.

It looks like the UAL flights from KNIP / NAS Jacksonville to MUGM / Gitmo - fly that route. FlightAware shows their tracking to a point midway between Haiti and Cuba.

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 43):
How do aircraft flying to gitmo fly? I was looking at a map and the western end of gitmo runway is only 2 miles or so from Cuba.

Some notes from MUGM on World Aero Data -

Quote:
Do not over fly Cuban landmass till established on base leg. Two fence lines are visible on base leg RWY 10. Prohibited Cuban airspace, designated by High Intensity Strobe Light, commences .75NM W of approach end RWY 10. ALL AIRCRAFT (except those utilizing GTMO WEST) SHALL REMAIN EAST OF THIS LIGHT. Limited maneuvering airspace and predominant SE wind above 15 knots may cause excessive correction for crosswind.

I've made one landing and one takeoff at Gitmo - back in 1982 - as a passenger on a USAF C-9A. The pilot told us just before landing that due to winds we had to land on Rwy 10 and expect a steep turn just before landing.

We did. He probably had the plane straight and aligned with the runway less than a quarter mile before the runway threshold.

Friends stationed at Gitmo have told me that takeoffs from Rwy 28 are interesting with a sharp climbing left turn starting right after the plane lifts off the ground.
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Cubana Flying Over USA HAV-Canada

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 9):
it has been known for US citizens to fly to Canada in order to get to Cuba. Also, would the TSA make a note of the names of pax, in case they wished to enter the US in the future?


A bit off topic....I don't know about now, but pre APIS and pre 9/11 many US citizens routed through Mexico to Cuba as well, myself included. When I worked for MX, I saw it all the time. We could never "sell" travel to Cuba in the US, however.

In the mid 90s, I flew LAX-CUN on one ticket, then flew CUN-HAV the next day on a ticket purchased in Cancun. On arrival and departure in Havana, I made sure my passport was not stamped with notations from Cuban immigration. I returned back to MEX through Merida and then pass rode to LAX after an incredible few a days in Cuba.

Tomas SJC

[Edited 2012-09-10 16:50:02]

[Edited 2012-09-10 16:50:42]
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci