hirsch777
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Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:56 pm

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/flight-path...dy-may-fallen-plane-120713600.html

Not Confirmed Yet. Still being Investigated.

My Thoughts are that this was infact a Stow Away.

Sad, Very Sad.

RIP

HIRSCH777
 
AR385
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:41 pm

The witness says there were loads of blood everywhere. I would buy that he may have been a stowaway if the planes were passing over on take-off, as he may still be alive. But if they were on approach, I find it very strange that there was so much blood as described by the witness. The stowaway would have been death and frozen, so where did all the blood come from?
 
hirsch777
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Thread starter):
The witness says there were loads of blood everywhere. I would buy that he may have been a stowaway if the planes were passing over on take-off, as he may still be alive. But if they were on approach, I find it very strange that there was so much blood as described by the witness. The stowaway would have been death and frozen, so where did all the blood come from?

The Body Internally would have heated back to Normal Temps throughout the decent.

Both Ways, Its a Rough Situation, and Major Bleeding is possible from the Intense Impact.

It is Amazing how Dumb People Are to think they have a fighting chance being a stow away. Especially since a recent case happened last Month.

HIRSCH777
 
citationjet
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:23 pm

There was a stowaway body found August 23 at Heathrow in a BA 747 wheel well after arrival from Cape Town.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=454bcaae&opt=6400
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
AR385
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:31 pm

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 2):
The Body Internally would have heated back to Normal Temps throughout the decent.

From being frozen at -40 C I doubt that in 25 mins, it would have thawed to "Normal temps"
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:41 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
From being frozen at -40 C I doubt that in 25 mins, it would have thawed to "Normal temps"

Agreed. Don't think it would be able to 'bleed' even a little in that timeframe. However, reading the article, it's not clear how long the body had been in the street when people observed lots of blood. So blood could have begun to seep as the body thawed over a period of hours, as it appears the body was left there for some time after it was discovered.

JL
Next flight.... who knows.
 
sw733
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 2):
It is Amazing how Dumb People Are to think they have a fighting chance being a stow away. Especially since a recent case happened last Month.

If they're from some poor African country (just an example), odds are they have no idea how an aircraft works and very little access to news, let alone news covering recent aircraft stowaway stories.
 
ASA
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 6):
If they're from some poor African country (just an example), odds are they have no idea how an aircraft works and very little access to news, let alone news covering recent aircraft stowaway stories.

Unfortunately, you're right. A majority people even in developed countries don't know the details of aircraft mechanics or operation ... I don't think I would be wrong to say that not even 1% in the developing world would know the dangers of an aircraft wheel well, especially the destitute poor who would think of taking such a step to a 'better future'. S A D.

[Edited 2012-09-10 10:01:21]
 
rfields5421
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
The witness says there were loads of blood everywhere.

That could be much less than a pint, depending upon how it was scattered. People very often greatly overestimate the amount of blood present after something happens. I've seen reports about "gallons of blood" from an injury where the person survived more then once.
 
BryanG
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:36 pm

It would take a LONG time to freeze a human body completely solid.

Even if the person was in the wheel well long enough to die from exposure, the innermost blood and guts would still be somewhat liquid and capable of bleeding out of the body, especially when the body's been cracked open by tarmac or cement after a long fall.

Morbid thoughts indeed.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 2):
The Body Internally would have heated back to Normal Temps throughout the decent.

Not so fast. Let's assume a long flight (8 hours) and let's assume that the stowaway expired soon after reaching cruise altitude. The body would cool down to an interior temperature that was quite cold, if not freezing over the period of the flight. Remember that this would not be a rapid process as there is no circulation, so it would simply be a matter of straight heating and cooling of a solid body.

If the body has been cold-soaked for 7 hours at altitude, a 30 minute descent to ground temperatures (and remember that even 1000 feet AGL can be significantly cooler than ground level) is not going to heat up the internal temperature enough. He will still be frozen quite solid.

Second, within several minutes after the heart stops pumping, the blood will begin to coagulate (clot). Once blood has coagulated, it will not uncoagulate. So even if the body did warm up on descent, it still would not bleed. Finally, even if death occurred minutes before an injury, bleeding requires circulation. If you stab a corpse, even a very fresh corpse, the corpse will bleed only very minimally.

For these reasons, the presence of a large amount of blood around a corpse with obvious injury suggests that the injury occurred while the victim was still alive. If the eyewitness account is true, then it would suggest that the man was alive at the time he fell from the aircraft (whether he was conscious I'm not sure we'll ever know).

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 8):
People very often greatly overestimate the amount of blood present after something happens. I've seen reports about "gallons of blood" from an injury where the person survived more then once.

Blood and vomitus are two fluids where a thimbleful looks like an ocean. In med school, one of my professors once had me prick my finger and start squeezing drops of blood into a basin full of water. About fifteen drops in, it started to look like an axe murder had occurred.

Quoting BryanG (Reply 9):
It would take a LONG time to freeze a human body completely solid.

Eight hours at -80F will do quite nicely, I'd imagine.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
hirsch777
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
For these reasons, the presence of a large amount of blood around a corpse with obvious injury suggests that the injury occurred while the victim was still alive. If the eyewitness account is true, then it would suggest that the man was alive at the time he fell from the aircraft (whether he was conscious I'm not sure we'll ever know).

Very Nice, DocLightning.

I Am impressed by your Knowledge.

Regards,

HIRSCH777
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:54 pm

Crushing injuries could have happened on take off as the gear retracted. There is not a lot of space left in those wheel wells when the main gear comes up. He could have bled out before he died. Very sad to see this happening again and again.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:11 am

I am reminded of this photo taken by a spotter at SYD testing out a new lens he received for Christmas in 1970........surreal.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...&sjid=VVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5560,5563585

Place the purple box on the photo to the right and minimize to get the full photo.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
legion242
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
I am reminded of this photo taken by a spotter at SYD testing out a new lens he received for Christmas in 1970........surreal.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...&sjid=VVcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5560,5563585

Place the purple box on the photo to the right and minimize to get the full photo.

Wild!!
Don't make me release the monkeys!!
 
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mayor
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:26 am

When I was working at DL cargo at ORD in the 70s, we had an L-100 Freighter come in on a Saturday night............not scheduled but bringing in an engine for a DC-8. One of the guys went to pin the nosegear and there was an arm hanging down from up in the wheel well.

Seems as though the deceased was a maintenance employee who worked in ATL and had been fired for drinking on the job. Probably got drunk, crawled up in the nose wheel well (he had no idea it was leaving as it wasn't scheduled) and fell asleep. I wasn't actually down there on the ramp where it was parked, but I would imagine that he wasn't in very good condition as there's not much room up where when retracted.

[Edited 2012-09-10 18:27:09]
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
PHX787
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:49 am

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 3):
There was a stowaway body found August 23 at Heathrow in a BA 747 wheel well after arrival from Cape Town.

This is starting to happen quite a bit. I wonder how they even think they can survive in the wheel well of a jet?  
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 16):
I wonder how they even think they can survive in the wheel well of a jet?

Likely they know very little about aviation.
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
rfields5421
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:29 am

When ever I see these stories it always reminds me of the World Airways B727 when left Danang with people holding onto the gear and in the wheel wells, with the one deceased fellow's legs sticking out the MLG doors.

They think that because his body fouled the retraction and forced the plane to fly to Saigon with the gear down, the other four in the wheel wells survived.

One of my counterparts from Clark filmed some close ups of the aircraft in flight from a USAF C-130 which flew with the B727 for a while before it landed. You can see the people in the wheel well are alive and hanging on for dear life.
 
imiakhtar
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
I am reminded of this photo taken by a spotter at SYD testing out a new lens he received for Christmas in 1970........surreal.

Apparently, the kid had just ran away from a Roman Catholic boys' institution.

According to wiki, there have been a few plucky survivors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowaway
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
 
hz747300
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:47 am

There would be no way to survive, right? Even if you addressed the cold weather, the thin air would do you in. Tragic. Is the speculation still that they came from a North African originated plane?
Keep on truckin'...
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting HIRSCH777 (Reply 11):
Very Nice, DocLightning.

I Am impressed by your Knowledge.

My job...

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 20):

There would be no way to survive, right? Even if you addressed the cold weather, the thin air would do you in. Tragic. Is the speculation still that they came from a North African originated plane?

There have been some very fortunate survivors. Not a lot, but some. On some improbably long (transoceanic) flights, too. I'm guessing part of it is that the hypothermia (much like a drowning in an ice lake) slows the metabolic processes and makes less oxygen necessary. None of them have been conscious for most of the flight.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
andrefranca
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
There have been some very fortunate survivors. Not a lot, but some. On some improbably long (transoceanic) flights, too. I'm guessing part of it is that the hypothermia (much like a drowning in an ice lake) slows the metabolic processes and makes less oxygen necessary. None of them have been conscious for most of the flight.

  

If I'm not mistaken it was a man from Fiji in the pacific, he hided on the wheels and the cold made his metabolism to decelerate meaning he didn't need that much oxygen, anyways he was a lucky man he survived the long trip, but was arrested later and returned to Fiji! LOL.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:14 am

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Portma...UJW3JYKZ0QWik4CYAw&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg

The location is exactly alligned with the approach to Runway 27L. It looks like the aircraft was lined up and descending, 6 miles from touchdown. He must have fallen out just as it lowered the landing gear, a fall from about 3000 ft.
 
DTWSXM
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RE: Possible Stow Away Fell Off On Approach To LHR

Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:21 pm

I am always surprised that members of A-Net, who are quick to respond to those who speculate about anything aircraft, will make statements about how things could or could not be concerning this incident. I've worked in healthcare for over fifteen years and there is almost nothing that is a certainty when it comes to the human body.

To quote those A-Net experts, 'Let the investigation take its course.' When all the facts are known a proper conclusion can be drawn.

Cheers!
Chris
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