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LAXintl
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Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:08 am

Apparently rumor is that AA-Skywest might announce a deal as early as this week covering flying.

Reportedly it covers about 24 aircraft based at LAX and DFW beginning this fall.

Story:
SkyWest to do flying for American Airlines?
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...flying-for-american-airlines.html/

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p.s. - forgot to add, but this might go hand in hand with the long time rumor that they were looking to close the AE LAX base as part of the broader basing review. (reportedly the standalone West Coast operation is quite costly --- they even have Chicago crews running the CRJ700 flights to avoid having to beef up the base)

[Edited 2012-09-11 21:16:20]
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:13 am

I must say that I really do like OO. I don}t get to fly them much (may 7 round trips a year) but its always been a hit and not a miss. My most recent flight on US, PHX-SAN (OO CR2) id have to say was the best servie ive ever recieved on an RJ.

Anyway, I guess now that the contract is out the window, AA has to get its ducks in a row.

I can see the CR2s being place holders until SKW/AA can actually aquire large RJs. As of right now, all on the OO/EV side are under contract and they can{t really shuffle them around that that tells me some new frames are coming down the pipe.

[Edited 2012-09-11 21:15:30]
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miaskies
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:16 am

Let the games begin...
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PHX787
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:16 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Reportedly it covers about 24 aircraft based at LAX and DFW beginning this fall.

I'm guessing that they're interested in taking over some of the 50 seaters that US and DL want shed?

Or are these aircraft being taken from different airlines?
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LAXintl
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:18 am

And dont forget - OO will have some free CRJ200s after they agreed to revised terms with Delta.

SkyWest Pushes Back On Delta Regarding 50 Seat RJs (by LAXintl Jul 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:22 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I'm guessing that they're interested in taking over some of the 50 seaters that US and DL want shed?

Or are these aircraft being taken from different airlines?

I guess it depends on how many they will have to start but OO isnt exactly hurting for CR2s as it is. They have quite a few in house colors that are used as needed on all sides and some that just sit as spares. I know in MSP, they had 3 RJs just sitting there for weeks. One was parked at F15 (whatever the gate is on the end of the F) and the other two were parked on the Delta ramp across from the G. I finally asked WTH they were doing there and if they were broken and I was told they were just excess a/c and had nowhere to park them in the other big OO cities so they were ferried to MSP.

Anyway, with that being said, Delta]s official plan for the 50 seat reduction and large RJ increase will be made public in the coming weeks according to Ed Bastian so we shall see.
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apodino
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:24 am

While I don't doubt that OO would be among the carriers to be brought in to supplement AA service, the terms that are mentioned here seem odd. 24 frames to be split between Expressjet and SkyWest that are 50 seaters? If the contract is for 24 50 seaters, then why does it need to be split between both carriers? And with the 1113 ruling, you will think scope will be relaxed. If this deal isn't announced yet, then why wouldn't it be for larger planes? And is AMR going to be shedding ERJ's in the bankruptcy case as well.

As I said, I think it is very likely that SkyWest and Republic are both in talks with AA about new flying and I do think one if not both companies will be brought in. I just find the terms that this article has mentioned to be very strange.
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:24 am

I wonder if that adds to the rumor that AA and EMB have a deal to swap out the smaller jets for 170s. Maybe Eagle will be flying more 170s and less 135/40/45.

[Edited 2012-09-11 21:25:22]
 
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:49 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
While I don't doubt that OO would be among the carriers to be brought in to supplement AA service, the terms that are mentioned here seem odd. 24 frames to be split between Expressjet and SkyWest that are 50 seaters? If the contract is for 24 50 seaters, then why does it need to be split between both carriers?

Well, since they're talking about CRJ-200's, they aren't going to come from XJET. Those planes are owned by DL. I suspect he said from both OO and XJET since it's going to be a deal with INC, and not the individual airlines.
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aaway
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:24 am

In essence, what appears will happen:

12 OO 200s for LAX
12 EV frames for DFW - allegedly for new market flying.
AE aircraft currently based at LAX will be transferred to (likely) MIA, though rumor is suggesting (some to) SJU.
AE CRJ 700s will continue to fly through LAX.
AE LAX crew based - closed
Ground handling at LAX will continue under the auspices of Eagles' ground handling arm.

Formal announcement expected tomorrow (Wed 09/12).

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
forgot to add, but this might go hand in hand with the long time rumor that they were looking to close the AE LAX base as part of the broader basing review. (reportedly the standalone West Coast operation is quite costly --- they even have Chicago crews running the CRJ700 flights to avoid having to beef up the base)

Prior to bk, the plan was actually to establish stand alone CR7 base.

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
...If this deal isn't announced yet, then why wouldn't it be for larger planes? And is AMR going to be shedding ERJ's in the bankruptcy case as well.
Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 7):
wonder if that adds to the rumor that AA and EMB have a deal to swap out the smaller jets for 170s. Maybe Eagle will be flying more 170s and less 135/40/45.

Looking around the regional industry, most of the larger RJ are spoken for via contract. It will take awhile for any carrier that may be tabbed for contract AA flying to acquire a sufficient number of frames.
As far as shedding ERJs - I reckon this is partly why a portion of the flying will be outsourced. The 135s will definitely leave. Bulk of (if not all) 140s - gone. Many 145s, excepting 'newer' frames, will leave the Eagle fleet. The rumor regarding fleet has AE/AMR doing 2 (small ERJs) for 1 (larger RJ) swaps.

Edit - appears that the "new market" flying will be new for EV, as it will apparently take over some of the short-hop RJ flying (i.e. TXK, SHV, GGG, ACT) ex-DFW.

[Edited 2012-09-11 23:57:32]
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 8):

Well, since they're talking about CRJ-200's, they aren't going to come from XJET. Those planes are owned by DL. I suspect he said from both OO and XJET since it's going to be a deal with INC, and not the individual airlines.

Actually, DL doesn}t directly own any of EVs CR2s. They hold the lease on a very small hand full (that EV sub leases) but thats about it. DL got out of a lot of the a'c they owned by way of EV in their bk. If you mean they´re "under contract" by DL, then yes and no. The frames are swapped around A LOT. They just picked up one in 2010 that belonged to Comair, was suppose to go to OO, but ended up with EV as an ATL based RJ (confusing). THE UAX CR2s all flew for DL at one point as well.

Quoting aaway (Reply 9):
It will take awhile for any carrier that may be tabbed for contract AA flying to acquire a sufficient number of frames.

Exactly my point in my original post. 50 seaters are dreaded at the moment but capacity is capacity until they can get enough large RJs on property.

Quoting aaway (Reply 9):
Edit - appears that the "new market" flying will be new for EV, as it will apparently take over some of the short-hop RJ flying (i.e. TXK, SHV, GGG, ACT) ex-DFW.

My how things seem to always come full circle. DFW was quite the base for EV up until DL shut down the DFW hub in 2005. Many folks transfered to ATL with that deal.

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
While I don't doubt that OO would be among the carriers to be brought in to supplement AA service, the terms that are mentioned here seem odd. 24 frames to be split between Expressjet and SkyWest that are 50 seaters? If the contract is for 24 50 seaters, then why does it need to be split between both carriers? And with the 1113 ruling, you will think scope will be relaxed. If this deal isn't announced yet, then why wouldn't it be for larger planes? And is AMR going to be shedding ERJ's in the bankruptcy case as well.

I think your}e complicating it a bit. Its not that it NEEDS to be split but operationally, thats probably how SKW felt it would work out best. Geographically speaking, it makes sense. OO is already big at LAX and in the west coast. EV owns the other part of the country. As for large RJs, they wont be getting them in very short order even they put an order in with Embraer or BBD tomorrow morning. As far as I know, there are no large RJs just sitting on the open market in North America to be had. EV/OO got their used CR7s by way of Horizon shedding them. DL had to get 170s all the way from Virgin to fund the extra flying for S5 and CP last year. The Comair CR7s and CR9s are already spoken for. 9Es 16 ATL based CR9s are spoken for. These will most likely be factory fresh frames unless a deal can be brokered outside the country.
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:57 am

Just confirmed on our employee site, JetNet.
 
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:03 pm

Official Company Statement.

Subject: American Takes an Important Step in Diversifying Regional Feed


Summary

Today, we have entered into an agreement with SkyWest and ExpressJet, wholly owned subsidiaries of SkyWest, Inc., to provide 50-seat regional jet feed. American has agreed to have SkyWest provide service from our Los Angeles hub and ExpressJet from our Dallas/Fort Worth hub. Service begins Nov. 15, 2012 and Feb. 15, 2013 respectively. Both carriers will fly under the American Eagle brand.


Key Points

• This development is consistent with our objective to diversify regional feed as part of our business plan to help American emerge a much stronger airline. With today’s announcement we are carrying out an important part our business plan.

• 23 aircraft will be covered under the agreement announced today. SkyWest will have 12 aircraft in Los Angeles, and ExpressJet will have 11 aircraft in Dallas/Fort Worth.

• American Eagle will close its Los Angeles pilot and flight attendant domiciles; however, they will continue to provide CRJ-700 feed and will continue to provide regional ground handling services at the LAX hub.

• As a result of the rebranding exercise, we will eventually discontinue the use of the AmericanConnection brand and will use the American Eagle brand for all of our regional partners. All other mainlines have one brand for their regional partners.

• Chautauqua Airlines will still provide regional feed, 15 jets, for American out of the Chicago hub and will fly under the AmericanConnection brand until that livery and brand are phased out.

• American Eagle Airlines will still continue to be the main provider of regional feed from our DFW, MIA, NYC and ORD hubs.


N737AA
 
commavia
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:10 pm

Makes sense. AMR is now, with greater contractual flexibility, getting to take advantage of the competitive bidding for regional feed that Delta, United and USAirways have been so effectively using for years. SkyWest is a great operator, and it makes sense that these jets would be primarily based in the west, where SkyWest already has a huge operational critical mass.

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
While I don't doubt that OO would be among the carriers to be brought in to supplement AA service, the terms that are mentioned here seem odd. 24 frames to be split between Expressjet and SkyWest that are 50 seaters? If the contract is for 24 50 seaters, then why does it need to be split between both carriers? And with the 1113 ruling, you will think scope will be relaxed.

It was probably simply that AMR put out an RFP for flying, and SkyWest responded with the jets they had available at that time. I doubt AMR much cares which operating certificate the jets are on as long as the flying is cost-competitive - they likely let SkyWest work out the details of which specific frames, etc.

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 7):
I wonder if that adds to the rumor that AA and EMB have a deal to swap out the smaller jets for 170s. Maybe Eagle will be flying more 170s and less 135/40/45.

AMR will be flying more large RJs - the only question is when, how many, and which operating certificate. And, long-term, they will definitely be flying less 37-50-seat jets - that, too, is just a question of when.

Quoting N737AA (Reply 12):
Official Company Statement.

Subject: American Takes an Important Step in Diversifying Regional Feed

Interesting - no mention of where, if anywhere, the displaced EMBs will be going. I suspect that will just be used to backfill 37-seaters that Eagle is no doubt eager to get rid of as soon as possible

Quoting N737AA (Reply 12):
As a result of the rebranding exercise, we will eventually discontinue the use of the AmericanConnection brand and will use the American Eagle brand for all of our regional partners. All other mainlines have one brand for their regional partners.

That's good. It should all be under the 'Eagle' brand.
 
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:24 pm

In addition to the official PR. This is what Brad Holt had to say:


"Over the past two years we’ve faced significant challenges as we’ve worked through the requirements to become a single carrier, integrate our processes and procedures, and at the same time, improve our operational performance and efficiency. Thanks to everyone’s hard work we have made much progress in all of these areas.

We have also worked with each of our major partners for some time now to improve our agreements, realign contracts and develop the fleet of the future. You have seen some of the results of this work recently as we announced that we are taking delivery of additional two-class aircraft for Delta, and today, I’m happy to announce that we are entering into a new, four-year capacity purchase agreement (CPA) with American Airlines.

This is great news for our company and another positive step forward to ensure a solid future. I know there will be a significant number of questions about our new partnership, and over the next few weeks we will dive deeper into those details, but for now, I wanted to be sure everyone is aware of these key points:

 The four-year CPA is for 11 CRJ200 aircraft flying under the American Airlines code beginning January 2013.
 All 11 aircraft will shift out of our Delta Connection program beginning in November 2012 to start transitioning to the American operating and paint specs.
 ExpressJet will begin operating five aircraft under the American code in January and six more in February 2013.
 ExpressJet’s American schedule will be concentrated out of Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW), where we plan to open a crew base and a small Line Maintenance operation to support the service.

Diversification is an important aspect of any successful portfolio, and the airline business is no different. With the airline industry rapidly changing – on what seems like a daily basis lately – the leadership team has been working on your behalf to position ExpressJet to take advantage of future opportunities. Without your proven hard work and dedication to running a great operation, we would not get a shot at opportunities like this one."
 
diverdave
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:36 pm

Quoting aaway (Reply 9):
AE LAX crew based - closed

Too bad. I flew American Eagle many times LAX-SBA and it ran very efficiently.

Best wishes for the affected employees. These are difficult times.

David
 
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5):
I finally asked WTH they were doing there and if they were broken and I was told they were just excess a/c and had nowhere to park them in the other big OO cities so they were ferried to MSP.

OO constantly seems to have more aircraft parked on their pad at BNA than they are actually working on. I expect some of the other smaller m/x stations may be similar.
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miaami
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:26 pm

I wonder if we will see any CR7's transferred to MIA and if they are planning expanding Eagle flying at MIA as well?
 
HPRamper
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 17):
I wonder if we will see any CR7's transferred to MIA and if they are planning expanding Eagle flying at MIA as well?

I thought the plan was to move regional jets to MIA to cover the ex-ATR routes.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:43 pm

For LAX and the West Coast, I think this is realization AE has had long time cost problems with the operation out here, and its simply cheaper to turn it over to others to operate. Even during the Saab 340 days there was talk that the numbers did not add up and the base was in danger.

Good for OO. They have free planes coming off lease at Delta and can certainly offer AMR some good efficiency of scale pricing.

Regarding the AE Embraer fleet, keep in mind AMR has yet to accept those aircraft and has sought repeated extensions in BK court.
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commavia
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:00 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
For LAX and the West Coast, I think this is realization AE has had long time cost problems with the operation out here, and its simply cheaper to turn it over to others to operate. Even during the Saab 340 days there was talk that the numbers did not add up and the base was in danger.

I think to a large extent the LAX base always suffered from a challenge of scale - because it was always isolated and separate from the rest of the Eagle network, especially during the Wings West days when it was literally a separate company, it was never able to achieve the economies of scale that helped other bases (especially DFW and ORD, of course).

Nonetheless, I remember several years back when it was being suggested by some that AA would discontinue the LAX Eagle flying altogether. So I'm happy to see AA keeping Eagle in LAX, albeit operated by a different company. For the customer, this will have little to no impact beyond the CRJs being (in my opinion) less comfortable than the ERJs.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Good for OO. They have free planes coming off lease at Delta and can certainly offer AMR some good efficiency of scale pricing.

Agreed. Makes infinite sense for both parties.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Regarding the AE Embraer fleet, keep in mind AMR has yet to accept those aircraft and has sought repeated extensions in BK court.

As was earlier suggested, I would not at all be surprised to see movement on that at some point in the not to distant future now that AA is no longer bound by the previous scope provisions, and I also would not at all be surprised to see Embraer and AMR come to some sort of a "grand bargain" deal involving the return of many of Eagle's existing RJs (especially the 135s) and a sizable purchase for new EJets.
 
aaway
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:24 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Interesting - no mention of where, if anywhere, the displaced EMBs will be going. I suspect that will just be used to backfill 37-seaters that Eagle is no doubt eager to get rid of as soon as possible

A portion of that backfill is for the remaining ATRs.

Quoting commavia (Reply 20):
As was earlier suggested, I would not at all be surprised to see movement on that at some point in the not to distant future now that AA is no longer bound by the previous scope provisions, and I also would not at all be surprised to see Embraer and AMR come to some sort of a "grand bargain" deal involving the return of many of Eagle's existing RJs (especially the 135s) and a sizable purchase for new EJets.

The rumor is that AMR and Embraer have already conducted extensive discussions, and the basic framework, replete with financing, is in place. But the key word is "discussions". As with any business deal, the preliminaries are sub-rosa. Obviously terms and conditions may change until such time that contracts are let.

It's felt that a contract proposal will be submitted while in bk, but AMR just needs more clarity with regard to its status as an ongoing concern.
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LAXintl
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:50 pm

I wonder what will happen with ground handling at the smaller West Coast stations longer term ?
I can see OO being to able to handle AE for less cost than maintaining these standalone stations.
For example SBA is a good example where OO already handles DL and UA, so adding AA to the portfolio should not necessitate much more staffing or equipment.


Regarding the grand bargain with Embraer, that might indeed be in works -- the new scope allows for up to 88 seaters - basically a 2 class E190.
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diverdave
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
For example SBA is a good example where OO already handles DL and UA, so adding AA to the portfolio should not necessitate much more staffing or equipment.

It should work well, though in this particular case Delta dropped SBA some time ago.   Delta doesn't even codeshare with AS into SBA.

David

[Edited 2012-09-12 08:15:58]
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:28 pm

I believe this way to go for AA/AMR. Contracting out the smaller RJ flying, but keeping the larger flying in house.I eventually see the ERJ's 135/140/145 remaining in eagle colors but being operated by OO/EV and the larger CRJ's and/or E-jets by AE.
 
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:42 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
I wonder what will happen with ground handling at the smaller West Coast stations longer term ?
I can see OO being to able to handle AE for less cost than maintaining these standalone stations.
For example SBA is a good example where OO already handles DL and UA, so adding AA to the portfolio should not necessitate much more staffing or equipment.


Regarding the grand bargain with Embraer, that might indeed be in works -- the new scope allows for up to 88 seaters - basically a 2 class E190.

Somewhat ironically AE actually won the contract this spring to handle many of the OO stations out west. SBA, SAN, MRY, PDX, and a few others as well. Most of the rest will be handled by DGS or some other acronym.
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Alias1024
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
I wonder what will happen with ground handling at the smaller West Coast stations longer term ?
I can see OO being to able to handle AE for less cost than maintaining these standalone stations.
For example SBA is a good example where OO already handles DL and UA, so adding AA to the portfolio should not necessitate much more staffing or equipment.

I wouldn't be so sure. OO lost many of their ground handling contracts for UA on the west coast recently. In fact, SBA was among those, with the last day of OO ground handling being just two days ago. Some of the bids they lost were won by American Eagle. The OO stations were very senior, and those employees that get hired by Eagle to cover the same flights start at the bottom of pay scale.
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:57 pm

Somewhat lost in this discussion is that this means a slight capacity increase if the Erj flights are replaced 1:1. All the lax eagle planes are e140s at 44 seats. That would be plus six per flight.
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
If this deal isn't announced yet, then why wouldn't it be for larger planes? And is AMR going to be shedding ERJ's in the bankruptcy case as well.
Quoting N737AA (Reply 12):
Today, we have entered into an agreement with SkyWest and ExpressJet, wholly owned subsidiaries of SkyWest, Inc., to provide 50-seat regional jet feed. American has agreed to have SkyWest provide service from our Los Angeles hub and ExpressJet from our Dallas/Fort Worth hub. Service begins Nov. 15, 2012 and Feb. 15, 2013 respectively. Both carriers will fly under the American Eagle brand.
Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
Makes sense.

It makes no sense for them to do any more 50 seater flying. I can only guess they are going to decimate the Eagle ERJ fleet and for some reason they'd rather do this deal than retain the flying at Eagle. I think signing up for more 50 seaters in this environment is another example of questionable AA management.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:08 pm

AE ALPA not happy ---

Letter to pilots with a bit more details.


Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Fellow American Eagle Pilots:

Last week, we distributed a candid Hotline message about the reality the APA faces following the rejection of their contract by the bankruptcy court. This week, the bad news reaches much closer to home — American Airlines announced today that they awarded feed contracts to SkyWest and ExpressJet Airlines. As a result, SkyWest will take over Eagle’s LAX operation with approximately eleven CRJ-200 aircraft. Our EMB-140s will be reallocated from LAX to flying in DFW and MIA, with one aircraft possibly going to NY, and our LAX pilot domicile will close by November 15th. Additionally, ExpressJet was awarded a contract for approximately 11 EMB-145 aircraft for flying at DFW, which replaces Eagle’s previous ATR flying.

Since last year’s divestiture negotiations, we have known that AMR was determined to diversify its regional feed. But knowing this doesn’t begin to lessen the emotion of seeing it come to fruition. LAX is one of our most senior domiciles. Pilots that make their home in Southern California and will now be forced to uproot their families and relocate, or commute for what could be the remainder of their careers. Meanwhile, DFW is our corporate home and our second largest domicile and also not immune from AMR’s desire to diversify its regional feed.

This type of “diversification” is not new to most of the regional industry, but nonetheless, this is new to Eagle pilots and the world we now find ourselves in. If there is one small benefit of this announcement, it is that you now have all of the facts surrounding the disposition of the APA 1113 motion, a full view of Eagle’s 1113 filing on its mechanics, ground school instructors, and dispatchers, and you now know the result of the 50-seat RFP that was distributed a number of months ago.

It is better that you have all of this information when you consider how to vote on the tentative agreement that maintains almost all of our contract, while providing job protections for the number of aircraft allocated to Eagle in AMR’s plan of reorganization. It should not shock you that more RFP’s are likely to come since this is the state of the regional industry. AMR has a fleet plan for Eagle, and we are told that this RFP is not a replacement for that but that this RFP is part of AMR’s plan for OAL regional feed. If you didn’t already see value in our Agreement in Principle’s (AIP) job protections that create a financial incentive against shrinking Eagle beyond AMR’s fleet plan, I would ask you to re-think that analysis.

Yesterday, we commenced a special MEC meeting during which your local representatives are deliberating over whether to allow the American Eagle pilots to vote on the AIP or whether to take our chances in court. While the MEC deliberates this extremely important choice, we again ask you to familiarize yourself with the AIP in the expectation that you may soon be casting the most important vote of your career.

This is a bad day for all of us. It marks the beginning of a new chapter for our airline. We are feeling the same anger that you feel today. But the following must be said: although our parent company has betrayed us, we cannot betray each other with our actions. This is the time for professionalism. We must focus on the destination, not on the en route challenges. That destination is to exit bankruptcy preserving as much of our contract as humanly possible, and by doing so, preserving our careers and preserving our profession. As early as a few weeks from now, you may be casting a vote and that vote should be cast on education and logic, not on emotion or retaliation. Year after year, Eagle pilots demonstrate our professionalism and maturity in the face of adversity. This time will be no different.

Fraternally,
Captain Tony Gutierrez
MEC Chairman
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:10 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
I think signing up for more 50 seaters in this environment is another example of questionable AA management.

Not really, this contract only runs for 3 years rather than the 15 that DL wisely committed themselves to. For these aircraft to be replaced by 70 seaters there would first need to be some agreement with regards to increasing scope and then they would need to find some spare aircraft. Even if they could force scope increases onto their pilots tomorrow, it is going to be a couple of years before they can take delivery of EM7s or CR7s. In the interim these flights have to be flown with 50 seaters. They have reduced the cost of doing so by shifting the flying from high cost Eagle to low(er) cost SkyWest.


Just as an aside: I realise that AA is drawing down the ATR base in MIA and going all jet. However, given the economics of 50 seat flying coupled with the fact that most of the flying in question is either intra-California or intra-Texas with stage lengths little over an hour, is there a case for Q400 flying? I realise that UA have tied up all the frames available in the US for contracted regional flying, but if they were to order some now that would not require scope approval and would be more cost effective even than flying CR7s on these routes. The same applies to MIA-Florida/Bahamas.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
commavia
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
It makes no sense for them to do any more 50 seater flying. I can only guess they are going to decimate the Eagle ERJ fleet and for some reason they'd rather do this deal than retain the flying at Eagle. I think signing up for more 50 seaters in this environment is another example of questionable AA management.

Not at all. This makes total sense. It's true that much if any 50-seat flying makes little sense with this environment, but at the same time it's also true that it will take several years at least to get anything adequate to replace it (which I suspect will be something along the lines of a mix of lots of Q400s or ATR72s plus lots of EMB170s/175s and 195s). Thus, in the interim, as a way to draw down the absolutely worst economic offenders on the Eagle side (the 135s) and move at least some of the 44- and 50-seat flying to a somewhat more economic vendor (SkyWest), this move makes sense for the short-term - after all, the deal is only for 4 years.
 
miaami
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:52 pm

More info on moving AE aircraft from LAX to other bases.

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/sky_t...arance-of-american-connection.html
 
rfields5421
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:00 pm

The one funny part of the story is that some of the Dallas news media are trying to make a big deal about Skywest flying for US Airways Express on some routes.

So what. OO flies for everyone.

The one sad thing is this is likely the first step to shut down American Eagle, something I've been predicting since the bankruptcy filing. AMR can't sell AE so think as aircraft come off lease, more and more AE flying gets moved to contract carriers.
 
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pu
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:07 pm

Isn't it nteresting that SkyWest is, I believe, now flying for all the US legacies? An Aeroflot of a regional airline in the making? Would it be so bad if OO ended up with all regional flying for everyone? Could the tables one day be reversed whereby legacy dependence on SkyWest means this super-regional is more powerful than any single legacy and no longer has to wait for its destiny to be determined by others?

Pu
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 14):
 All 11 aircraft will shift out of our Delta Connection program beginning in November 2012 to start transitioning to the American operating and paint specs.

Quick. I suspect we shall hear something from DL about the 50 seater draw-down pretty soon. At the last big meeting they sad "in the coming weeks".

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 30):
it is going to be a couple of years before they can take delivery of EM7s or CR7s

BBD and EMB are hurting for orders right now. This isnt Boeing or Airbus with 1,000,000,000,000 frames on backlog. Look how fast Pinnacle picked up factory fresh CR9s. They{ll start to get a/c no more than a year after placing the order.
What gets measured gets done.
 
flyby519
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:15 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 34):
Isn't it nteresting that SkyWest is, I believe, now flying for all the US legacies? An Aeroflot of a regional airline in the making? Would it be so bad if OO ended up with all regional flying for everyone? Could the tables one day be reversed whereby legacy dependence on SkyWest means this super-regional is more powerful than any single legacy and no longer has to wait for its destiny to be determined by others?

I think this is only half of the picture. Republic will be the counter balance to Skywest and I believe they fly for all legacies as well. I wouldnt be surprised to see MQ eventually packaged and sold to RP as a part of a feed contract deal.
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apodino
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting pu (Reply 34):
Isn't it nteresting that SkyWest is, I believe, now flying for all the US legacies? An Aeroflot of a regional airline in the making? Would it be so bad if OO ended up with all regional flying for everyone? Could the tables one day be reversed whereby legacy dependence on SkyWest means this super-regional is more powerful than any single legacy and no longer has to wait for its destiny to be determined by others?

Though not mentioned much in this forum, Republic is going to be there as well as I am sure they will get into the mix (In fact they already are since Chautauqua does American Connection flying already) and if they ever divest F9 they will likely need homes for the 170's. Given that Trans States Holdings also has MRJ's on order and would no doubt like to add AA flying to the exisiting DL and UA flying, you are looking at three regionals that will essentially control most of the regional flying for the legacies in this country (at least 75 percent of it anyways). A long time ago it was noted that the Comair strike forced DL to diversify and led to what we have now, but now Comair is going under, Air Wisconsin isn't looking too rosy, and Pinnacles future is anybodies guess (Though they did announce a new MX base in CVG of all places), this is going to most likely end up being three major players for most of the regional lift. Where this becomes a problem is if there is a labor issue or some other problem at just one of them, it will have a crippling effect on the system as a whole going forward. OO is not union, so labor disputes probably won't be an issue there. Expressjet seems to be in a good shape. The big question going forward is RAH. They are locked in a bitter dispute with the Teamsters over a new contract...and I believe the thirty day cooling off period has passed with them and they have authorized a strike. If something were to happen there...watch out.

Skywest has been well run for many years as Akin has been very good at adapting to the market place, which is why they are in the position they are in. However, the downside is that if they become the only game in town, unless a new start up comes along, supply and demand could work against them as they could become real expensive with no competition. They have done very good over the years. Lets see if it continues.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 37):
(Though they did announce a new MX base in CVG of all places)

Actually, they}re slowly taking over a lot of the OH routes. Its very gradual and will happen through the rest of this month until the 29th. Seems like its all being absorbed across all the partners with most of the flying going to 9E. G7 is getting a lot of work on the east coast along with CVG and midwest stuff through DTW and MSP going to OO/EV, and 9E. G7 seems to be picking up quite a few routes out of DTW as well.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 36):
I think this is only half of the picture. Republic will be the counter balance to Skywest and I believe they fly for all legacies as well. I wouldnt be surprised to see MQ eventually packaged and sold to RP as a part of a feed contract deal.

But why do that when they can just absorb the flying for MUCH less head ache and costs? Look at OH. There were people swearing up and down on here just a couple months ago (wish I could find the thread) that RP was going to buy OH to get more DL flying but look at what happened.
What gets measured gets done.
 
flyby519
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 38):
But why do that when they can just absorb the flying for MUCH less head ache and costs? Look at OH. There were people swearing up and down on here just a couple months ago (wish I could find the thread) that RP was going to buy OH to get more DL flying but look at what happened.

That could be, although OH was already at the end of a long drawn out process of being shut down and at a much smaller size than MQ is currently. It is one thing to completely shut down a carrier with ~100 planes, but Eagle is currently upwards of 270 frames. Delta shutting down Comair isnt a big tragedy for the DCI network as a whole because there is a surplus of RJ capacity resulting from the Mainline TA which reduces 50seat feed. AMR doesnt have that network in place to absorb shocks to the system

I dont think AMR has the time to waste on slowly drawing down Eagle to the point where they can shut it completely.

Having some sort of deal with RP or another carrier to take MQ off their hands ine exchange for a longer term feed contract could be very desirable. Maybe TSA/Compass/Gojets will be a player, they havent been doing much lately.

[Edited 2012-09-12 11:40:51]
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 37):
and if they ever divest F9 they will likely need homes for the 170's.

No, there are currently not any E170s flying for F9. The only aircraft RJET flies for F9 are 15 E90s (5 to be returned to US, 5 to be re-deployed in a charter agreement, and 5 to remain at F9 for the time being). All the E70s are either in service on a CPA already or have been subleased. Long story short, the only aircraft RJET has laying around are 50-seat or smaller ERJ's.

Quoting apodino (Reply 37):
and I believe the thirty day cooling off period has passed with them and they have authorized a strike.

The cooling off period didn't pass. It never started. IBT's request for release was rejected by the NMB and both sides were sent back to negotiations.

[Edited 2012-09-12 12:26:08]
Good goes around!
 
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KGRB
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:58 pm

Great news for SkyWest and ExpressJet. In my opinion these are two of the finest regional airlines in the US and it's nice to see them rewarded for their quality product.

In regards to OO/EV using the 'American Eagle' branding, does this mean a name change will be in the works for MQ? It seems like it would be confusing trying to differentiate between "American Eagle the brand" and "American Eagle the airline" in conversation.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 39):
Maybe TSA/Compass/Gojets will be a player, they havent been doing much lately.

GoJet recently became a Delta Connection partner and TransStates corporate has 50 MRJs on order, so I think they will continue to be aggressive in picking up new flying. It wouldn't be the first time TSA flew for AA (albeit under the 'AmericanConnection' brand last time).
Flown on: Air Wisconsin, America West, American, Compass, Delta, Endeavor Air, Envoy, ExpressJet, Mesa, Mesaba, Midwest Express, Northwest, Piedmont, Pinnacle, PSA, Skyway, SkyWest, United, US Airways
 
kingcavalier
Posts: 381
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:09 pm

Letter from Chip Childs -

Date: 9.12.12
To: SkyWest Airlines Team Members
From: Chip Childs
Re: A New Partnership with American Airlines; CRJ200 transition

Team,

Today I’m pleased to announce that SkyWest Airlines will begin flying as an American Airlines partner this fall. Our new American partnership makes a total of five and the third major partnership SkyWest Airlines has secured in less than two years! That’s a pretty phenomenal accomplishment by any measurement and it’s a credit to your great work.

SkyWest, Inc. has announced a four-year Capacity Purchase Agreement (CPA) with American Airlines to operate 23 CRJ200 aircraft. As part of that agreement, SkyWest Airlines will begin flying 12 of those aircraft Nov. 15, 2012. Part of American’s restructuring plan is to diversify its American Eagle product, so we will operate these aircraft as part of the new American Eagle brand. We will fly out of American’s LAX hub to 11 cities: ABQ, FAT, ELP, MRY, PHX, RNO, SAF, SMF, SAN, SJC, SLC, SBA and TUS – almost all cities where we have solid operating experience.

Where will the CRJ200s come from? You’ll recall that we recently agreed to reduce the number of contract CRJ200 aircraft in exchange for larger CRJ700 and CRJ900 flying with Delta. This transition has already begun, and the 11 CRJ200 aircraft that have begun transitioning from our Delta fleet will be utilized to accomplish our partnership with American. The 12th aircraft will be a spare in the American system. I’ve included some details of the implementation below:

 The aircraft will be maintained at our TUS, FAT and SLC maintenance bases and we will begin repainting these aircraft in the American Eagle livery next month.
 Our American Eagle flying will be done primarily by our LAX-based crews, so there will likely be some domicile transfer opportunities there with the increased LAX flying.
 American Eagle, American’s wholly-owned subsidiary, will perform the ground handling for these flights.

Clearly we have an aggressive implementation plan for a successful Nov. 15 launch. Our recent accomplishments and strong track record prove that we’re more than capable of delivering beyond American’s expectations. The questions and answers accompanying this memo will help provide further detail on the launch; watch for specifics from your department leadership in the coming weeks as well. I want to congratulate each of you on this accomplishment and thank you for delivering SkyWest-caliber quality in some of our industry’s most challenging times. Each of our partnerships solidifies our position in the industry and makes us a stronger competitor, and SkyWest Airlines remains extremely well positioned as we continue working together for long-term success.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
PHX787
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 29):
AE ALPA not happy ---

Im not one to speak for OO, but aren't they open-shop?
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Acey559
Posts: 1016
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:34 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
That's good. It should all be under the 'Eagle' brand.

I think it's crap. I can't wait to see my airline's name plastered all over some other feeder's airplane. Call me dramatic or whatever you want, but I think it sucks.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 29):
AE ALPA not happy ---

Tony is an idiot. I and many/most Eagle pilots will never respect him. He can sound as angry as he wants but he's using this announcement as a way to push some awful TA down our throats and threatens worse news if we dare vote no. He's a spineless moron. I also feel like I've been slapped in the face that our union is even negotiating a concessionary contract when AMR just signed an agreement with an airline that has higher costs than us. For months we've been told we need to take cuts so we can compete, when all the while we have been profitable and have lower costs than SkyWest and even Republic, and we fly 37-50 seat jets. No thanks, he can take his beloved AIP and shove it up his ass.
 
flyby519
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting KGRB (Reply 41):
In regards to OO/EV using the 'American Eagle' branding, does this mean a name change will be in the works for MQ? It seems like it would be confusing trying to differentiate between "American Eagle the brand" and "American Eagle the airline" in conversation.

Yea, MQ CEO issued some letter saying that would be part of the process coming soon.
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airliner371
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:50 pm

With this new flying, where will the cuts be? What planes at Eagle will be ditched?
Take a little time and enjoy The View.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46):
With this new flying, where will the cuts be? What planes at Eagle will be ditched?

ATRs which was already planned, as well as accelerated retirements/reallocation of the 135s and 140s.
 
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cosyr
Posts: 816
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:47 am

- American Eagle [operated by American Eagle Airlines].

soon to be known as

- American Eagle [operated by something else].

eventually to be known as

- American Eagle [operated by the next Comair, because costs were too high and AMR abandonded them as soon as a Skywest or whoever else got big enough to replace them].
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1913
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RE: Skywest Might Operate For AA

Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:14 am

With rumors abounding of a new AA livery/rebranding...how soon do you think AA will be on this if they are going to start repainting these aircraft? AA is pretty stringent that their connection carriers adopt the same livery (reason why they never had Great Lakes take over the AA Connection routes from the old STL hub because Great Lakes wouldnt paint their aircraft in AA colors). Maybe a new livery will be unveiled soon....

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