LAXintl
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AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:29 pm

Hot on the heels of the Qantas, EK president says they are in talks with AA over codesharing and frequent flier tie-up.

Emirates and AMR in partnership talks
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...d-amr-in-partnership-talks-376417/

Tim Clarke says he hopes to have it done "fairly soon".
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PA101
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:38 pm

Does that mean, AA will axe FRA entirely and FRA-DFW will be routed via DXB instead???   
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:38 pm

If it wasn't coming from the horses mouth I would have guessed that this story was coming from a 13yo Anutter who put 2 and 2 together to get 5000.

As it is, this is definitely a very interesting development.

After all the official secrecy surrounding the QF tie-up until the ink had dried, why are they going public now? Could it be to force AA's hand ("look everyone knows about it now, so just hurry up and sign") or with the rumoured agreement between BA and QR being imminent in order to try and throw a spanner in the works and make BA take another look at EK?






And after all the comments that QF should be thrown out of OW etc etc, maybe it will be BA who ends up being the dark horse after all   (I speak in jest, of course)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Sydscott
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
And after all the comments that QF should be thrown out of OW etc etc, maybe it will be BA who ends up being the dark horse after all (I speak in jest, of course)

I KNEW IT! I speculated early on that this sort of tie up would make logical sense for AA given what was occuring with QF and given some of the similarities in strategy between the 2. If Tim Clarke is able to stitch up an AA deal it'll be interesting to see what Etihad does in response.

It also puts the speculated QR entrance into OW and speculated closer relations with BA into the spotlight.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Not sure what EK brings to AA, other than cheap flow to the Subcontinent that AA can't afford to carry. Maybe a way to ditch RJ  ?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Sydscott
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Not sure what EK brings to AA, other than cheap flow to the Subcontinent that AA can't afford to carry.

Also to Africa and the Middlea East that AA/BA/IB doesn't cover. It gives their pax a way to avoid connections at LHR if they want to.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 pm

EK brings South Asia to the table. While BA also competes on many of the routes, folks may prefer to change planes in DXB for such trips rather than LHR. Routing on EK also avoids the absurd departure taxes etc levied by the British government.

It puts BA in an interesting position given they have a One World and j/v tie up with AA. Would such a venture between EK and AA hurt BA?
 
ElPistolero
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
If it wasn't coming from the horses mouth I would have guessed that this story was coming from a 13yo Anutter who put 2 and 2 together to get 5000.

I nearly fell out of my chair when I read the title of this thread. No joke.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
After all the official secrecy surrounding the QF tie-up until the ink had dried, why are they going public now? Could it be to force AA's hand ("look everyone knows about it now, so just hurry up and sign") or with the rumoured agreement between BA and QR being imminent in order to try and throw a spanner in the works and make BA take another look at EK?

Its really getting interesting eh.

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3):
It also puts the speculated QR entrance into OW and speculated closer relations with BA into the spotlight.

The OW angle is, indeed, looking intriguing. Has EK decided to beef up OW to start snapping at LH and *A's heels?

Things look like they might get interesting soon. Businessweek (I think) was speculating about how the QF/EK deal might shake up alliances. Maybe they were on to something.
 
luckyone
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:02 pm

It makes sense that EK would eventually start pairing up with other carriers. They can only grow organically so far, and it's possible we are seeing the beginning of a plateau phase of in-house growth. It's called maturation. Also, they do not have the geographic advantage for most Americans (and we'll include Canadians in there too) that they do between Europe and Australasia. So it makes sense they're seeking a partner to drive traffic their way.
 
ASA
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:18 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3):
It also puts the speculated QR entrance into OW and speculated closer relations with BA into the spotlight.

Do you mean, QR will be going in OW ... while the stalwarts AA and QF will be thrown out?!!

EK seems to be tearing apart the world's largest alliances ... is a new alliance forming then?  
 
LAXintl
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:35 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Not sure what EK brings to AA

Addition to what mentioned already, EK brings AA some added traffic flow -- direct connections in places like DFW, LAX, ORD, JFK into the AA network. Every additional dollar generated is a positive for AA.
Also EK would bring a strong partner for AAdvantage. I could see most Americas region EK Skywards members switch to holding AAdvantage cards instead due to the greater flexibility.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 8):
So it makes sense they're seeking a partner to drive traffic their way.

I dont believe its EK that is driving these partnerships, but the other parties instead seeking the association.
Basically its the "if you can't beat them, join them" mantra.
EK has built a fantastic global franchise that has lots to offer its potential partners.
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FWAERJ
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:37 pm

I could see this coming as soon as the ink was dry on the QF deal. EK already serves 3 out of AA's five cornerstones: JFK, LAX, and DFW. And ORD and MIA have been rumored additions to the EK route map for eons. Should AA and EK codeshare and EK start DXB-ORD, it would be the perfect replacement for AA's ORD-DEL. It would be even better for frequent-flyers, as AAdvantage members could gain EK's access to Africa, the Middle East, and Asia while Skywards members could redeem their miles for US domestic flights (which they currently cannot do).

Another possibility from this deal that no one has mentioned: a cash injection from cash-rich EK and/or stake (under 25%) in AA to help them emerge from Chapter 11. EK's backing of AA's reorganization could help AA fend off a US takeover bid (friendly or hostile).

But should this happen and if BA teams up with EK and not QR as a result, I think it would be basically a given that EK will join oneworld within five years of an AA/EK codeshare/FF deal.
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flyby519
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
But should this happen and if BA teams up with EK and not QR as a result, I think it would be basically a given that EK will join oneworld within five years of an AA/EK codeshare/FF deal.

I'm sure it wont be easy for BA, but if they could put aside their differences and play nice with EK then that could bring some serious cache back to OW as a whole.
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Sydscott
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 9):
Do you mean, QR will be going in OW ... while the stalwarts AA and QF will be thrown out?!!

EK seems to be tearing apart the world's largest alliances ... is a new alliance forming then?

There is plenty of room for them to co-exist within OW. No need for anyone to go anywhere.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
Also EK would bring a strong partner for AAdvantage. I could see most Americas region EK Skywards members switch to holding AAdvantage cards instead due to the greater flexibility.

What Tim Clarke said about Qantas Frequent Flyers could easily be said about AAdvantage members. It is the potential for EK to tap into the huge number of members and allow them to earn and burn points on them, that would have driven EK to do this with AA along with the traffic flows you mention at AA hubs.
 
nomorerjs
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:22 am

This may be what finally brings EK to MIA and ORD. EY at ORD will be interesting if they lose AA feed. And BA? First QF, now AA? This industry is a real life soap opera.
 
crAAzy
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:35 am

Holy crap! Holy crap! Holy crap! I agree that I wouldn't believe it if we we're hearing it directly from the horse's mouth.

I'm sure DL and UA are just about crapping in their pants right now. Although I don't think they'll have too much to worry about until EK and LATAM announce that they're in talks too!   

In all seriousness, this would be a very welcome partnership from an AA standpoint. An AA/EK tie up would be great for ME/Africa/Indian flying. At the same time it shouldn't really interfere that much with AA/IAG partnership to Europe, except for those looking to save money avoiding all the UK taxes and BA fuel surcharges, especially to points south and east   .

However, I can't help but feel if talks have really been going on since last year that Tim Clark using the QF partnership wave to put a little more pressure on AA to make a decision sooner rather than later; especially with the reported BA/QR discussions going on.

[Edited 2012-09-12 18:40:56]
 
aaexecplat
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:07 am

While I can see how this would be great for AA and EK, but this has to be bad for BA. BA just lost their Australia feed for their SIN-LHR route and now they are going to lose both TATL traffic and eastbound traffic from LHR. That has got to sting...unless BA was talking to EK, as well...hmmmm.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:11 am

Let the "EK to Join Oneworld?" threads roll in 3... 2... 1...
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ASA
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:20 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
There is plenty of room for them to co-exist within OW. No need for anyone to go anywhere.

I meant, if QR is indeed talking to BA about OW ... and EK and AA are getting cozy (QF surrendered already) ... then what is the final form of OW ? Can BA + QR + AA + QF + EK all be within OW ??? I seriously doubt that.

1. Either EK gets in OW ... and BA swallows it up and gets cozy with the AA+EK+QF trio.
[QR would probably end up getting cozy with UA again and *A in that case.]
2. QR actually gets in OW ... AA + QF + EK go their own way ... plenty strong on their own!
[that would be a HUGE shift in the global airline networks as of now ...]
3. OW exists as is ... EK just maintains a loose alliance with AA and QF ... while QR with BA
[but somehow I see the chances of the 3rd option very slim ... any thoughts?]

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 14):

This may be what finally brings EK to MIA and ORD. EY at ORD will be interesting if they lose AA feed. And BA? First QF, now AA? This industry is a real life soap opera.

Looks like, the loser of these new ententes is EY. They never launched DFW (would have probably worked with their preferred tie with AA) ... but EK took that over. They declared IAD ... but with too much lead time ... and EK preempts them their as well. And now, EK is snapping away their US ally altogether ... will probably launch ORD and MIA in no time.

Being headquartered just about 100 miles away DXB ... these EY guys are constantly being harrassed by this big airline from their small (Abu Dhabi is the capital, after all) neighbor.  
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:44 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 18):

With EK making a partnership with QF and then making talks with AA, 2 massive OW players, couldn't this lead for membership talks if these deals go through?

For the record, I can see EK in OW, Etihad in Star, and QR in Skyteam. Etihad is the smaller of the 3 Gulf carriers and with TK in Star, they are the best candidate of the Gulf carriers, if they decide to join. EK for making deals with massive OW players and pissing off LH. QR and Skyteam are the odd men out so I just put two and two together. This is just my   ...

By the way, if this actually happens, I called it!   
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
iFlyLOTs
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:57 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 18):
1. Either EK gets in OW ... and BA swallows it up and gets cozy with the AA+EK+QF trio.
[QR would probably end up getting cozy with UA again and *A in that case.]
2. QR actually gets in OW ... AA + QF + EK go their own way ... plenty strong on their own!
[that would be a HUGE shift in the global airline networks as of now ...]
3. OW exists as is ... EK just maintains a loose alliance with AA and QF ... while QR with BA
[but somehow I see the chances of the 3rd option very slim ... any thoughts?]

I could almost see this as EK trying to force IAGs hand for your option number 1.

The third one might well work, but I really think that the various airlines would want to cooperate more along the lines of how Cathay does   

Now the second one, if they were to get an airline that could cover central and eastern Europe (none really come to my mind), get LATAM to defect, a Chinese airline that is willing to play nice (HU?) and maybe another Asian carrier like JL, then you would have one powerhouse of an alliance. (At least in my own world..)
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enilria
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:18 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
If it wasn't coming from the horses mouth I would have guessed that this story was coming from a 13yo Anutter who put 2 and 2 together to get 5000.
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
EK seems to be tearing apart the world's largest alliances ... is a new alliance forming then?
There is plenty of room for them to co-exist within OW. No need for anyone to go anywhere.

Here's a thought. AA wants no deal with US. BA said they welcome an AA-US merger. I wonder if this is sticking a fork in their partner for supporting US...or more accurately driving them away from US Airways by implying they could blow up OW if BA doesn't get on their side.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 8):
and we'll include Canadians in there too

I just had a thought seeing this comment: the benefits for AA are pretty clear (ie India), but could this flow both ways and be EK's route into Canada???

AA fly from JFK to YYZ and YUL and from ORD to YYZ, YUL and YOW (I'm assuming the EK to ORD is imminent if this is the case) not to mention SEA to YVR and YYC via AS.

There is actually a precedent for this: when EK and QF announced their marriage everyone jumped onto the benefits to QF regarding Europe, but few people noticed that last week QF that they are launching PER-AKL (a market that they've never expressewith times that mysteriously link up with EK's flights from DXB-PER. EK is maxed out on Trans-Tasman frequencies so its fairly apparent that EK are using QF to increase their capacity to New Zealand.
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Sydscott
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:32 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 18):
1. Either EK gets in OW ... and BA swallows it up and gets cozy with the AA+EK+QF trio.
[QR would probably end up getting cozy with UA again and *A in that case.]
2. QR actually gets in OW ... AA + QF + EK go their own way ... plenty strong on their own!
[that would be a HUGE shift in the global airline networks as of now ...]
3. OW exists as is ... EK just maintains a loose alliance with AA and QF ... while QR with BA
[but somehow I see the chances of the 3rd option very slim ... any thoughts?]

I'd suggest have a read of these 2 articles. While they don't contemplate AA joining with EK they're a pretty good summation of the QF/EK deal on OW as a whole. (i.e. negligible impact really)

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...son-next-qatar-into-oneworld-81650

Fair use extract;

Mr Mehdorn's comments underscore that global alliances are increasingly simple but important groupings to appease passengers with a network of frequent flyer and recognition alignment. Even within alliances member carriers compete against each other where there is no revenue sharing. The bigger value of alliances to airlines is derived from codeshares and joint-ventures, and so airlines – be it airberlin or Qantas – need to have a platform for passenger loyalty but not be shackled to it in such a way that prevents smarter partnerships, such as with Etihad or Emirates.

That view can still be heretical, especially to staunch anti-Gulf carriers like Air Canada and Lufthansa, whose underlying problem is perhaps less about competition and more of a lack of strategy or willingness to realise potential benefits. Rewards for stagnation are not great. The impending entry announcement of Qatar in oneworld will push global alliance and partnership re-thinks.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:29 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 22):
I just had a thought seeing this comment: the benefits for AA are pretty clear (ie India), but could this flow both ways and be EK's route into Canada???

AA fly from JFK to YYZ and YUL and from ORD to YYZ, YUL and YOW (I'm assuming the EK to ORD is imminent if this is the case) not to mention SEA to YVR and YYC via AS.

EK aren't after flying people from Dubai to Canada; they are after the India - Canada market. So I don't know many people would want to do India - Dubai - Chicago - Canada when there are easier options.
 
crAAzy
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:40 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 21):
Here's a thought. AA wants no deal with US. BA said they welcome an AA-US merger. I wonder if this is sticking a fork in their partner for supporting US...or more accurately driving them away from US Airways by implying they could blow up OW if BA doesn't get on their side.

Interesting, but I'm not sure AA developing a partnership with EK would blow up OW leaving BA out in the cold.

The main reason being that flights from the US to DXB still aren't and won't be all that convenient for the majority of travelers here in the US. USA-DXB flights are still quite limited, probably will remain so for quite a while, and I doubt we'll see anything close to the network EK has in Australia here in the US anytime soon.

So in a hypothetical situation if there was a break-up between BA and OW from a US centric standpoint -

USA-Europe:
Passengers would either be flown by AA or be routed via another carrier feeding Europe. (AA would likely have a hard time competing directly in many markets and one of AA"s most lucrative assests - LHR - would be weakened)

USA-ASIA:
No impact - partnership with JL and CX woud still remain. As an independant AA would probably be able to tie up with one of the other Chinese carriers already in an alliance.

USA-South America:
No impact - obvious reasons.

USA-ME/Africa:
Actually would improve US passenger connectivity to the regions dramatically.

USA-India
As mentioned above, AA could connect passengers both east (via DXB) cheaper than (LHR) and with better significantly more options or west (via TYO, HKG).


Also I'm not entirely convinced that AA does not want a deal with US. It's just that AA would rather have a deal when the time is right. IMHO opinion, the time will be right when AA management feels they have laid a foundation for a strong AA to emerge from BK. They want their vision for the future AA (from it's hard product, premium services, alliance and partner networks, new AA livery, etc) to have enough of critical mass to survive through the merger without another management team coming in and gutting everything before it's even started.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 15):
I'm sure DL and UA are just about crapping in their pants right now

Somehow I doubt it for many of the reasons YOU state below.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 25):
The main reason being that flights from the US to DXB still aren't and won't be all that convenient for the majority of travelers here in the US. USA-DXB flights are still quite limited, probably will remain so for quite a while, and I doubt we'll see anything close to the network EK has in Australia here in the US anytime soon.

So in a hypothetical situation if there was a break-up between BA and OW from a US centric standpoint -

USA-Europe:
Passengers would either be flown by AA or be routed via another carrier feeding Europe. (AA would likely have a hard time competing directly in many markets and one of AA"s most lucrative assests - LHR - would be weakened)

USA-ASIA:
No impact - partnership with JL and CX woud still remain. As an independant AA would probably be able to tie up with one of the other Chinese carriers already in an alliance.

USA-South America:
No impact - obvious reasons.

USA-ME/Africa:
Actually would improve US passenger connectivity to the regions dramatically.

USA-India
As mentioned above, AA could connect passengers both east (via DXB) cheaper than (LHR) and with better significantly more options or west (via TYO, HKG).

AA has woken up and realised there is more to life than just LHR and TYO, something UA and DL realised some time ago, not only with their own metal and alliance partners going East and West from the States

It will be interesting, granted, how this all plays out
 
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EK413
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting aaexecplat (Reply 16):
BA just lost their Australia feed for their SIN-LHR route and now they are going to lose both TATL traffic and eastbound traffic from LHR.

The JSA agreement was crumbling and BA stated it was time to drop the agreement... The aircraft tied up on the kangaroo route will be redeployed on profitable routes opposed to sitting around on the tarmac in SYD...

EK413
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mogandoCI
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:00 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 26):

AA has woken up and realised there is more to life than just LHR and TYO, something UA and DL realised some time ago, not only with their own metal and alliance partners going East and West from the States

Well said. While many airlines are discovering how the 787 could open up exciting nonstops to second tier and thinner routes, AA and QF had been going against the global trend by retreating to the old model of trunk routes with larger planes to partner hubs.

Hub-to-hub could only go so far when the global economy is increasing decentralized, emerging market growth drastically outpace the first world, and people increasing willingness to pay a premium for nonstop convenience.
 
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enilria
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:03 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 25):
Interesting, but I'm not sure AA developing a partnership with EK would blow up OW leaving BA out in the cold.

The other factor is AA may not be happy that QF was thrown out of OW. One can assume that was completely driven by BA as BA and LH really hate EK. QF was a decent partner for AA. I suspect they will continue together outside OW.

EK may also desperately want more LHR slots for god knows what and AA is a means to that. Perhaps you will see EK sign an NDA.  
Quoting crAAzy (Reply 25):
Also I'm not entirely convinced that AA does not want a deal with US.

They do not. They desperately want B6 and B6 is running away as fast as they can. US is a terrible merger for AA. PHX will be demolished, CLT will be downsized as it is low yield and the Latin duplicates Miami, and as for PHL...AA wants the same thing DL and UA want: to be strong in L.A. and NYC. UA has that (EWR). DL is building it. AA is screwed in both places. Moving to PHL is giving up on that. PHL is incompatible with their vision and perhaps incompatible with being a global carrier. PHL has good geography, but there is no market there. Look how small the market is from PHL to Europe. It's very small relative to the service level. US has a bunch of connect dependent, crappy local market hubs (exc DCA) and that is incompatible with AA. US adds nothing to AA. It only makes them bigger and not in the right places.

AA needs a beachhead in NYC and B6 is the only way to do that given the presence of slots there now. DCA is a nice hub for AA, but it doesn't accomplish anything in terms of being a global carrier which is what they care about.

They may still merge with US, but they will be dragged in kicking and screaming. AS is a better partner than US.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:11 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
CLT will be downsized as it is low yield

Actually CLT is anything but low yield. On the contrary its actually a pretty high yielding market.
It is what it is...
 
JU068
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:21 pm

If this deal really does materialize could we see Emirates send more A380s to the US?
This is actually quite smart of American Airlines as they not only get additional access to the Indian subcontinent but also to Iran, the Middle East and sub-Saharan Africa.
 
DLD9S
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:28 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
The other factor is AA may not be happy that QF was thrown out of OW.

When did that happen?
717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
The other factor is AA may not be happy that QF was thrown out of OW. One can assume that was completely driven by BA as BA and LH really hate EK. QF was a decent partner for AA. I suspect they will continue together outside OW.

Why are you making stuff up? QF was in no way thrown out of OW.
It is what it is...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):

Addition to what mentioned already, EK brings AA some added traffic flow -- direct connections in places like DFW, LAX, ORD, JFK into the AA network. Every additional dollar generated is a positive for AA.
Also EK would bring a strong partner for AAdvantage. I could see most Americas region EK Skywards members switch to holding AAdvantage cards instead due to the greater flexibility.

I think most of the value is in AAdvantage/Skywards; it's the traffic flows I'm not so sure about. The local DXB traffic is probably good, and AA may contribute with things like DXB to GRK/SAN, but anything beyond DXB starts to fall precipitously in terms of yield.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ldvaviation
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 26):
AA has woken up and realised there is more to life than just LHR and TYO, something UA and DL realised some time ago, not only with their own metal and alliance partners going East and West from the States

I think AA has known this for sometime. They have one very large corporate contract* which has been routing passengers (in business class) from LAX through Hong Kong and LHR to India and the Middle East. While that gets them there, it does not solve the problem of moving between cities in India. (Obviously, Kingfisher has not been cutting it.)

That would be solved by adding a scissor hub (such as Dubai) in a codeshare deal or OW membership, preferably a OW membership as that would allow Emirates mileage to count toward oneworld global explorer fares.

(I am sure AA has other large contracts like this one. Perhaps, freed from the codeshare restrictions of the pilot's contract, they can now begin to address the shortcomings in their codeshare network.)
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:38 pm

This is an interesting development but I think the impact on Oneworld/IAG/BA is being overstated.

The fact that these discussions, which based on the fact they have been going in for some time and there seems to be no urgency to conclude them, were made public shortly after the Qantas announcement may create the impression that EK is driving a coach and horses through the Oneworld alliance, but I think the reality is more mundane.

Most of the "behind" points AA serves by codesharing with BA from LHR would involve backtracking if reached via DXB. The AA-BA joint venture is hugely important to both airlines and LHR is the single most important transatlantic destination in Europe by a wide margin so the notion that AA is going to snub BA is wide of the mark. BA may lose feed from AA in India but India is one market in Asia where BA does quite well on its own.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
The other factor is AA may not be happy that QF was thrown out of OW. One can assume that was completely driven by BA as BA and LH really hate EK. QF was a decent partner for AA. I suspect they will continue together outside OW.

DUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would you say such a thing, this will open a can of worms!!!!!!!

Tim Clark has stated that the QF+EK tie up has NO BEARING whatsoever on the AA+QF relationship.

QF would be STUPID to ditch out of OneWorld for the sake ALONE of their Australia-US presence. Those trunk routes are HIGHLY important to their overall network. Without the AA agreements, things would really start to unravel for them on the TPAC front.

At the very most, the EK+QF relationship COULD (and I use that word very liberally) indicate SOME loosening of QF's ties with OneWorld, but I can assure you that Qantas has no plans to leave the alliance whatsoever. The ending of the JSA with BA isn't large/compelling enough to make that assumption.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
N62NA
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3):
If Tim Clarke is able to stitch up an AA deal it'll be interesting to see what Etihad does in response.

Hint: Etihad means "United" when translated.  
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:54 pm

Put me in the crowd of if Tim Clark hadn't been quoted, I would have dismissed this!

IMHO, EK is doing this for several reasons:
1. AA hubbing. In particular at DFW, MIA(?), and JFK.
2. Possible AA to DXB once the 77Ws arrive
3. Weaken any value of QR being in an alliance. This makes OW far less attractive to QR.

AA is doing this to better tap into a rapidly growing region.

If this happens, which seems likely post QF/EK, than EK's US and LATAM feed will improve. I see the mid-2013 high MTOW/wing twist A380 heading to MIA if this goes through.   

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
As it is, this is definitely a very interesting development.

Understatement!

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 3):
It also puts the speculated QR entrance into OW and speculated closer relations with BA into the spotlight.

I speculate this is being done to weaken QR (by EK) and to make money. For AA, it is purely about business. EK forms many partnerships.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 6):
While BA also competes on many of the routes, folks may prefer to change planes in DXB for such trips rather than LHR.

To be blunt, LHR must expand or be bypassed. We have enough threads on here where Londoners state in various ways that they want less connecting at LHR. This will enable that...

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 7):
Has EK decided to beef up OW to start snapping at LH and *A's heels?

I don't think thought of LH came into the equation. It was business first and weakening a more direct competitor (QR).

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 17):
Let the "EK to Join Oneworld?" threads roll in 3... 2... 1...

   NO. EK would never agree to the restrictions an alliance imposes.

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 36):
I think the impact on Oneworld/IAG/BA is being overstated.

I think the impact of IAG/BA is overstated. However, there is air travel growth and it simply cannot be accommodated at LHR to any significant degree. This potential alliance is part of the fall out of under-expansion of the European hubs.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:15 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):
MIA(?)

On second thoughts my Canada-India suggestion is probably not too realistic due to the double connect and need to clear US CBP.

There could well be massive benefits to EK - however - in LatAm. There is a lot of investment flowing into the region in the resource mining and oil sectors. EK getting a foot in the door and becoming a major player in Mid East/Asia to (say) Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia could prove a high yielding strategy. It is undoubtedly a limited market, but one which will pay top dollar
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:22 pm

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I'm not that surprised.

AA that's trying new things in bankruptcy + EK which really doesn't have any codeshares (yet) = this. I don't know why EK hasn't already made such agreements. Yawn
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:32 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 41):
AA that's trying new things in bankruptcy + EK which really doesn't have any codeshares (yet) = this. I don't know why EK hasn't already made such agreements. Yawn

This is pretty much the only way AA can leap frog UA and DL. UA and DL already have service to places in Africa, India, and the Middle East. AA would simply be second fiddle if they tried that themselves. Instead, what DL and UA really dont have is an extensive codeshare with a Gulf carrier. Its the only way AA can really beat them to the punch.
It is what it is...
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):
Instead, what DL and UA really dont have is an extensive codeshare with a Gulf carrier. Its the only way AA can really beat them to the punch.

Why haven't UA or DL pursued EK yet, I wonder. I doubt DL and UA have simply not seen the giant airline in the Middle East
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:41 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 43):
Why haven't UA or DL pursued EK yet, I wonder. I doubt DL and UA have simply not seen the giant airline in the Middle East

UA doesnt really have a choice. They are in a joint venture with AC and LH which are two carriers who despise EK. Its not like BA which simply doesnt like EK, there is a hatred between AC/LH and EK to the point where Canadian citizens have to have a visa to go to the UAE. No way would UA and EK ever be able to have a tie up.

As for DL, I dont know.
It is what it is...
 
ASA
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:45 pm

Interesting times for AA, US, the Gulf carriers and global alliances.

Who goes where, who owns who, who works with who, etc etc etc

Maybe in a few years, we'll look back and make a chart like this for AA ...  
 
Alias1024
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:48 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 41):
I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I'm not that surprised.

AA that's trying new things in bankruptcy + EK which really doesn't have any codeshares (yet) = this. I don't know why EK hasn't already made such agreements. Yawn

  

This move would make a great deal of sense for both carriers. Intersting to see Emirates potentially tying up with two oneworld carriers in quick sucession, but I've always felt that if EK was going to join an alliance that oneworld was the best choice so I guess seeing them tie up with some members shouldn't be that surprising.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):
This is pretty much the only way AA can leap frog UA and DL. UA and DL already have service to places in Africa, India, and the Middle East. AA would simply be second fiddle if they tried that themselves. Instead, what DL and UA really dont have is an extensive codeshare with a Gulf carrier. Its the only way AA can really beat them to the punch.

Since when did 1-stop service "leapfrog" nonstop service ? With LAX-DXB and DFW-DXB being ULH in their own rights, the fuel savings is simply not there either.

And good luck trying to use those 8 SWUs on EK.
 
jfk777
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 25):
The main reason being that flights from the US to DXB still aren't and won't be all that convenient for the majority of travelers here in the US. USA-DXB flights are still quite limited, probably will remain so for quite a while, and I doubt we'll see anything close to the network EK has in Australia here in the US anytime soon.

So in a hypothetical situation if there was a break-up between BA and OW from a US centric standpoint -

USA-Europe:
Passengers would either be flown by AA or be routed via another carrier feeding Europe. (AA would likely have a hard time competing directly in many markets and one of AA"s most lucrative assests - LHR - would be weakened)

USA-ASIA:
No impact - partnership with JL and CX woud still remain. As an independant AA would probably be able to tie up with one of the other Chinese carriers already in an alliance.

USA-South America:
No impact - obvious reasons.

USA-ME/Africa:
Actually would improve US passenger connectivity to the regions dramatically.

USA-India
As mentioned above, AA could connect passengers both east (via DXB) cheaper than (LHR) and with better significantly more options or west (via TYO, HKG).

AA has alliances with hubs at the very edge of reguions it flies too, Tokyo in Asia and LHR in Europe. Dubai would right in the middle of a huge population thousands of miles from those two hubs. Dubai would not only help in the Middle East and India but in western Oriental Asia, Places like Bangkok, Malaysia and Perth, Australia. New York to Perth is shorter via Dubai then via LAX and Sydney via Qantas. GO for it AA, Emirates in Miami is something Florida needs.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: AA And Emirates In Partnership Talks

Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 47):
Since when did 1-stop service "leapfrog" nonstop service ? With LAX-DXB and DFW-DXB being ULH in their own rights, the fuel savings is simply not there either.

No, but having a code on that huge bank of flights at DXB is certainly an advantage.
It is what it is...

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