mogandoCI
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Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:23 pm

JAL is launching new products across all 4 classes in their newly delivered 77W :

http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/ss7/ (site in japanese)

All other classes look like incremental improvements upon excellent products, but the one that really caught my eye is how spacious the business class look. Feels a bit like the BA config, but with all seats forward.

Seems like JAL has set the new bar for J in the sky.
 
YankeesFan
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:37 pm

Those seats are nice! Pics below.
New First.
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/first/seat/img_main.jpg
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/first/entertainment/img_figure1.jpg
New Business.
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/business/seat/img_main.jpg
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/business/entertainment/img_figure1.jpg
Premium Economy.
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/premium_y/top/img_businessY.jpg
Economy
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/economy/seat/img_main.jpg
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/economy/seat/img_figure2.jpg
Images courtesy of Japan Airlines.
What do you think of the seats?

[Edited 2012-09-14 06:39:40]
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DLPMMM
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:37 pm

Much better than the BA configuration, as a window seat does not need to step over the aisle seat person's legs. I really dislike the BA business class seats.

The video screen is very large. Otherwise, it looks to be on a par with other true lie flat seats.
 
migair54
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:05 pm

it looks great... is premium economy very spacious or the guy is very short?? becuase it looks like 40 to 42 inches

First look awesome, similar to SQ, business looks nice as well but nothing very new,
 
questions
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 1):
Much better than the BA configuration, as a window seat does not need to step over the aisle seat person's legs. I really dislike the BA business class seats.

How does FA serve meal to window passenger if aisle passenger is sleeping? Through through the open partition?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
it looks great... is premium economy very spacious or the guy is very short?? becuase it looks like 40 to 42 inches

They always hire the skinniest people to do these product shots to make them all extra spacious

The girl in regular economy is probably 4.5' tall
 
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:05 pm

Looks pretty good! Glad to see JAL investing in their longhaul product!
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Liverpoola380
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:36 pm

Does anyone have any idea what the boxes are under the economy seats?
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 7):
Does anyone have any idea what the boxes are under the economy seats?

life jacket ?
 
Liverpoola380
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
life jacket ?

I thought that but the box looks quite big!
 
BMI727
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 7):
Does anyone have any idea what the boxes are under the economy seats?

The one with the red strap coming from it appears to be a life vest and the larger black box underneath the seat is probably the AVOD IFE box.
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LAXintl
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:49 pm

Just trying to play catch up with ANA.

Both ANA F and biz class look amazingly similar.


First class cube



Biz staggered lie-flat


=
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ldvaviation
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Both ANA F and biz class look amazingly similar.

I don't know. JAL's F class sports better finishes and a less boxy enclosure. Conceptually, I suppose they are similar, but I think the F passenger will appreciate the JAL suite more.

As to business class, both are boxy, but with two different layouts and with two different enclosures. JAL's enclosure provides more privacy.

Whatever the case, with the future in business being a 1-2-1 layout with "full" aisle access, it is disappointing to see JAL not opt for something that even their JV partner (AA) will have.

[Edited 2012-09-14 09:11:45]
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Just trying to play catch up with ANA.

Both ANA F and biz class look amazingly similar.

Exactly what I was thinking!

And I'd hasten to add with NH's "Inspiration of Japan" soft product, JL will have to do more than just the hard product upgrade to match ANA.
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qf002
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:10 pm

It's nice to see a Japanese carrier using colours that aren't white/black/light blue/light timber. I rather like the layers of texture and colour used in the J seat, though it appears that there will be quite a high level of disparity between different seats (ie only outside aisle seats will get the full depth storage units, inside aisle seats appear to get a half depth storage unit and window/centre seats will get nothing) -- I think I would prefer the NH layout...

Nice update though  
 
Viscount724
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:11 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5):
Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
it looks great... is premium economy very spacious or the guy is very short?? becuase it looks like 40 to 42 inches

They always hire the skinniest people to do these product shots to make them all extra spacious

The girl in regular economy is probably 4.5' tall

Car manufacturers do the same thing in photos showing their supposedly spacious rear-seat legroom in small cars, as well as moving the front seat so far forward no normal-sized person would fit in the front either.
 
caleb1
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:29 pm

Wish the exteriors of JAL's aircraft looked as attractive as the new interiors.
 
babybus
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:42 pm

It looks like JAL have changed their cabin colour palette. I'm not sure it looks better.

The first class seat on the website does not look that comfy with big dips between the cushions.

The food always looks amazing.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
anonms
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:43 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 12):
JAL's F class sports better finishes and a less boxy enclosure.

Given that ANA calls their F class seat the "Cube", I can't imagine anything being any boxier than that.
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jfk777
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:45 pm

IS the J class 7 seat across staggered per row ? Looks as if there are 3 seat in the middle ?
 
mercure1
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:58 pm

JAL is indeed about 2-years behind ANA in introducing new premium product, so its important they try to catch up.

I've seen the ANA product and its frankly very very good.

The F class cube is almost like the SQ suite, while the lieflat staggered business seat is one of the best out there. Lots of room and privacy.
I am very surprised JL opted to 2-3-2 configuration in business when NH has and the industry is shifting towards a 1-2-1. Does not seem half as spacious as the PR would like to make it.

Also for their premium economy looks to be catch up with ANA, but JAL opts to use a new seat design while NH went with something like an older business class seat. Time will tell which is more comfortable.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 19):
Is the J class 7 seat across staggered per row ? Looks as if there are 3 seat in the middle ?

Not sure what the J class layout is. They say every J seat will have unobstructed aisle access.

English press release here (no photos).
http://press.jal.co.jp/en/release/201208/002217.html
 
LAXintl
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:10 pm

J class is 7 across 2-3-2.

Its on a diagram on their website
http://www.jal.co.jp/newsky/common_newsky/img/ss7/business/seat/img_figure1.jpg

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mogandoCI
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:23 pm

Only downside is that no couples could sit together
 
TreeHillRavens
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):

it looks great... is premium economy very spacious or the guy is very short?? becuase it looks like 40 to 42 inches

Because the seat pitch really is 42"  

And the new JAL Business Class is the one that EOS Airlines had.
 
mfc
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 23):

Only downside is that no couples could sit together

Well, but if they take a seat in each side of the aisle they wouldn't be that far away from each other.
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BEG2IAH
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Its on a diagram on their website

Reminds me of office space, i.e., cubicles. Perspective might change you are seated.
 
splitterz
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:14 pm

The new first and business look very sharp, it does however, seem slightly claustrophobic.
 
incitatus
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
Its on a diagram on their website

The partitions look like a cube farm in a cheap software sweatshop.
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photoshooter
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:40 pm

I must say their new product looks really nice! I would like to try out their Premium Economy product which looks really nice. This made it even harder for me to decide between ANA or JAL when flying to Japan...
Great job JAL!

Niek   
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usdcaguy
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:08 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 28):
The partitions look like a cube farm in a cheap software sweatshop

True; almost like reading carrels in a public library. That said, I think it looks pretty comfortable and private. I'd be interested in how much light comes into the cabin during the day and how it reaches all the cubes; it almost looks as though the walls might block out some light.

Given the relatively small space available within the cabin for each person, I wonder if having a more open plan for business class really is better to give a greater sense of space and more access to crew. I can understand offering cubicles for First Class, as those seats are wider with greater pitch, and the exclusivity of the arrangement could be a unique selling point for a select few. In business, it's hard to know how important high walls are for customers. Does anyone have any relevant experience? All of my flights have had an open seating plan.
 
Flighty
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:59 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 30):
I can understand offering cubicles for First Class, as those seats are wider with greater pitch, and the exclusivity of the arrangement could be a unique selling point for a select few. In business, it's hard to know how important high walls are for customers.

I agree. Give me comfy J without walls anyday.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5):
They always hire the skinniest people to do these product shots to make them all extra spacious

The girl in regular economy is probably 4.5' tall

I'm surprised the man appears so obviously Asian. Generally, Japanese tend to think of White people as "big." Because of this, Japanese car and aircraft seat companies tend to hire little White models to show the seats or cars so as to make the product look bigger.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 23):
Only downside is that no couples could sit together

Sure they could. The barriers even slide down. One will be slightly in front of the other, but only by a few inches.
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incitatus
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 30):
and the exclusivity of the arrangement could be a unique selling point for a select few. In business, it's hard to know how important high walls are for customers. Does anyone have any relevant experience? All of my flights have had an open seating plan.

I've traveled LHR-JFK on BA seat 64K upper deck and I could not have asked for better. Facing a wall, by the window with the divider up I missed all the meal service as I was exhausted.
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ardian
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:55 am

It looks amazing, all the classes. Too bad they didn't continue with the current color scheme (especially in Y), as I really like it (elegant, soothing for the eyes)

View Large View Medium
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zoom1018
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:39 am

Now people are to sit in boxes... it is no different from sitting in a public office with isolating walls.
 
airbazar
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:46 am

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 26):
Reminds me of office space, i.e., cubicles. Perspective might change you are seated.

Exactly. I find this new trend of putting partitions between seats, disgusting. It all looks like a cramped, cubicle office space. I much prefere the open cabins without partitions.
 
christao17
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:56 am

While the product looks nice, those center seats could be claustrophobic. Just a little cubicle with a narrow passageway to the aisle. I don't know that I'd want to spend ten hours in there, even with the lie-flat seat, big screen, etc.

Not that I fly business all that often, but I think there is a balance between a sense of space and a sense of privacy, and the new JAL seat goes a bit too far towards the privacy. I don't want to be in a cubbyhole.
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spacecadet
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:00 am

The new business class obviously offers less total space than ANA, which is 1-2-1. That said, JAL seems to put the space where you really need it, whereas more than 50% of the space on ANA is dedicated to a table. But I still think ANA has the better overall config.

I do like those PE seats, but then they'd better have upgraded those for the prices they charge. (Often not much less than business.)
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qf002
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:12 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 20):
I am very surprised JL opted to 2-3-2 configuration in business when NH has and the industry is shifting towards a 1-2-1. Does not seem half as spacious as the PR would like to make it.

This layout is actually far more spacious than any other staggered J seat out there. In a 777, they usually have a total of 8 seats across the plane (including NH!), whic results in a 1-2-1 layout in each row, but means that ones feet are crammed into a narrow hole due to the taper of the seats (look at an overhead shot of BA's product and you'll see what I mean...)

I commend JL for using a seat that will actually feel far more spacious to sleep in than most others...
 
smi0006
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:14 am

I like the new seats!!

Which aircraft will they be fitted to, I still recall seeing rather recent photos of current, old, older and very old seat across the JAL fleet. Do they have regional seats for Asian services or just the older seats?
 
TreeHillRavens
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 39):

This layout is actually far more spacious than any other staggered J seat out there. In a 777, they usually have a total of 8 seats across the plane (including NH!)

Spot on! It seems most people aren't aware that this new JAL J seat is actually wider and the width is more or less the same from head to toes area in a fully flat position whereas most other fully flat J seats on the market have smaller head/foot space.
 
profcalvin
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:57 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 39):
This layout is actually far more spacious than any other staggered J seat out there. In a 777, they usually have a total of 8 seats across the plane (including NH!), whic results in a 1-2-1 layout in each row, but means that ones feet are crammed into a narrow hole due to the taper of the seats (look at an overhead shot of BA's product and you'll see what I mean...)
Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 41):
Spot on! It seems most people aren't aware that this new JAL J seat is actually wider and the width is more or less the same from head to toes area in a fully flat position whereas most other fully flat J seats on the market have smaller head/foot space.

exactly...if you look at the numbers the JAL J-class seats are more spacious then competitors. I think this is a great upgrade on their in flight product and they are actually the first carrier to take the 2-3-2 layout with this kind of concept. Kudos to not just taking another catalog recaro seat or whatever. Very nice of them to bring back a bold red into the cabin to represent the classic Japanese red.

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 40):
Which aircraft will they be fitted to, I still recall seeing rather recent photos of current, old, older and very old seat across the JAL fleet. Do they have regional seats for Asian services or just the older seats?

These new seats will be fitted on 13 of it's 77W's and the first route to get it will be NRT-LHR starting in January. Other routes with this product will be JAL's big north american routes and another european one.

JAL actually offers an impressive amount of info on their aircrafts (and various inflight configuration/seats as you mentioned) on it's website.
http://www.jal.co.jp/en/aircraft/
something well built and fun for people like us to explore.

I have a lot of respect for JAL and their rebound from the tough times of bankruptcy. I have a warm place for JL in my heart, flying their awesome J-birds across the pacific when I was young, and their ever so attentive staff, The Japanese are very very hospitable, and I'm glad that the people at JAL are doing a good job reflecting that (in my experience...).
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:02 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 22):
J class is 7 across 2-3-2.

Its on a diagram on their website

I fail to see how this arrangement is more space efficient as non-staggered one...
 
qf002
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:46 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 43):

It's not really -- the benefits are direct aisle access from all seats and privacy.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 39):
This layout is actually far more spacious than any other staggered J seat out there. In a 777, they usually have a total of 8 seats across the plane (including NH!), whic results in a 1-2-1 layout in each row, but means that ones feet are crammed into a narrow hole due to the taper of the seats (look at an overhead shot of BA's product and you'll see what I mean...)

I commend JL for using a seat that will actually feel far more spacious to sleep in than most others...

Good point.
 
JAL
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:13 pm

The new Inflight products looks simply amazing!

Great job JAL!
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Viscount724
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:09 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 39):
In a 777, they usually have a total of 8 seats across the plane (including NH!), whic results in a 1-2-1 layout in each row, but means that ones feet are crammed into a narrow hole due to the taper of the seats (look at an overhead shot of BA's product and you'll see what I mean...)

BA's J layout on the 777 (and 747) is 2-4-2,not 1-2-1. There is no "narrow hole" for your legs and feet. The area for your legs and feet is slightly narrower but it's all in the open and you don't need as much room for your legs. It's BA's forward and backward-facing seats that permits the 8-abreast configuration and avoids losing as many seats as most other J configurations with fewer seats abreast on those aircraft types.

Personally, I prefer the LX type of J product, with all seats facing foward, where the legs of one passenger do fit in a slot next to the seat in front due to the staggered alternating layout 1-2-1 and 2-2-1 (on A330/340). That permits the seats to be installed with less pitch to avoid losing too many seats, but without the disadvantage of the BA configuration where half the passengers have to face backwards. The LX product also means that 40 of 45 seats have direct aisle access.
http://www.swiss.com/web/EN/fly_swis...ircraft/Pages/airbus_a330_300.aspx
 
spacecadet
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 39):
In a 777, they usually have a total of 8 seats across the plane (including NH!), whic results in a 1-2-1 layout in each row, but means that ones feet are crammed into a narrow hole due to the taper of the seats (look at an overhead shot of BA's product and you'll see what I mean...)

It's not really accurate to say it's "8 seats across". It's 4 seats across in each row - the extra space occupied by the seats in the next row is just empty space in the row you're in. That means you have the full width of another seat next to you unoccupied and dedicated as part of *your* seat area, and your feet go under the empty space in the row in front.

I don't know how BA's business class really works but ANA (JAL's direct competitor) looks *far* more spacious in business than JAL's new offering. As I said earlier, it can still come down to personal preference because no doubt the JAL seats themselves are a bit wider (by 1/8, most likely), but there is absolutely no doubt that you have more total space for yourself on ANA than JAL. The fact is there are 4 seats across in your row, vs. 7 on JAL. That is not a small difference.

I've criticized ANA before for their new business class and the fact that the seats do seem relatively narrow while there's a lot of wasted space where that table is. But again, the fact remains that you have almost double the total space on ANA. It just depends on how you're planning to use it. On a long flight, I do like to have my laptop and various other things sitting in my general area ready for use, so it's nice to have the extra space, even if the seat itself is slightly narrower. It's also nice to have direct aisle *and* window access. If you're directly on the aisle in these new JAL seats, there's no chance you have window access. (If you have the window, it looks like you still do have aisle access, so that makes those seats by far the preferred seats regardless of your personal taste in seating type.)
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qf002
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RE: Amazing New JAL Business Class Seats

Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:07 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 47):
BA's J layout on the 777 (and 747) is 2-4-2,not 1-2-1. There is no "narrow hole" for your legs and feet. The area for your legs and feet is slightly narrower but it's all in the open

I'm aware that BA's product is not staggered -- I used it as an example because it's so easy to see how the taper of the seats works to allow airlines to better fill the space.

I would probably rate the BA product better for space anyway, because your feet are out in the open. In most staggered layouts, your feet are under a table with little space to move about.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 48):
It's not really accurate to say it's "8 seats across". It's 4 seats across in each row - the extra space occupied by the seats in the next row is just empty space in the row you're in. That means you have the full width of another seat next to you unoccupied and dedicated as part of *your* seat area, and your feet go under the empty space in the row in front.

But there are 8 seats across the plane. If you take a picture from the front of the cabin, with all the dividers etc removed, you can see 8 seats across the space. It's fair to say that you have more space around you, yes, but saying 1-2-1 invokes images of the vast amounts of space that modern F cabins offer, and that is simply not the case.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 48):
ANA (JAL's direct competitor) looks *far* more spacious in business than JAL's new offering.

A sentiment I absolutely agree with, and expressed in my first response to this thread (reply 14)! However, I don't think that the fact that the seats are a uniform size from head-to-toe should be discounted. It will feel far more spacious to have all that space in front of you (rather than a wall 50cm in front of you), and to be able to move around in the bed, rather than being stuck in a zombie position with your feet in a well.

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