tan1mill
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Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:51 pm

It was just announced that Frontier will discontinue service to Provo effective January 7, 2013. According to one article, the reason has nothing to do with a lack of demand, but for other reasons.

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...2-16cb-5c93-83c8-141268b74c86.html

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=22144996&nid...nue-flights-to-provo&s_cid=queue-1
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:57 pm

Gosh, I thought all the proponents of this service thought this was the best thing since sliced bread. Guess not, huh?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
rampart
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:22 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 1):
Gosh, I thought all the proponents of this service thought this was the best thing since sliced bread. Guess not, huh?

The proponents still do.

Quote:
the reason has nothing to do with a lack of demand, but for other reasons

i.e. future lack of aircraft? Loads high, but fares not?

Sad that F9 is not able to sustain an experiment longer. Unfortunately, squashing naysayers does not help their bottomline. I love it when naysayers are squashed. Because when the aren't squashed, they are obnoxiously arrogant.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:26 pm

I never thought this would work. Too close to SLC. Why fly Provo-DEN-ORD when you can drive to SLC go nonstop to ORD, not worry about weather in DEN, missing connection or canceled flights?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 1):
Gosh, I thought all the proponents of this service thought this was the best thing since sliced bread. Guess not, huh?

Hardly the best thing since sliced bread, but an interesting move.

But I doubt it could support the A319 (terminal space for one thing) and all the E190's are leaving.

mariner
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 2):
Because when the aren't squashed, they are obnoxiously arrogant.

And usually correct.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
dnstevenson
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:09 pm

Sad day   I took the flight last year and loved it.

I tweeted about the news and got this response from @FrontierCare:

"it is truly unfortunate, the route just wasn't performing to our expectations & at this point we don't plan to return. ^AM"
 
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:03 am

Well, if it wasn't for lake of demand.........

Quoting tan1mill (Thread starter):
According to one article, the reason has nothing to do with a lack of demand, but for other reasons.

But it wasn't performing up to expectations:

Quoting dnstevenson (Reply 6):
"it is truly unfortunate, the route just wasn't performing to our expectations & at this point we don't plan to return. ^AM"

What could the problem be. Seems like the two are connected.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:03 am

Quoting dnstevenson (Reply 6):
"it is truly unfortunate, the route just wasn't performing to our expectations & at this point we don't plan to return. ^AM"

This contradicts what the Provo mayor had to say:

Curtis said city officials were told by Frontier that the airline hopes to resume flights in and out of Provo in the future.

"While disappointing, this is just a temporary setback," Curtis said in news release. "The Provo flights were often full, proving that there is a demand for the service."

I also find it odd that Provo was told by Frontier as recently as a month ago that they'd be getting the A319.

Too many of F9's routes seems to be relatively short lived. I'm not convinced that all these newer oddball routes are working out great for them.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:25 am

Not just Provo. Four other cities too from what I'm hearing.
 
airliner371
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:32 am

Quote:
Four other cities too from what I'm hearing.


I have heard Provo, Akron, Dayton and Philly, don't know the other though.
 
Q
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:32 am

Maybe, watch out G4 or United Express or AA Eagle would fly to Provo someday.

Q
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:00 am

Provo is going experiencing same as Ft Collins' Allegiant experience it seems.


As for Akron and Dayton, no surprise, with FL (now WN) nonstops.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 8):
"The Provo flights were often full, proving that there is a demand for the service."

Apparently, Provo's mayor doesn't realize that full doesn't always mean profitable.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
Apparently, Provo's mayor doesn't realize that full doesn't always mean profitable.

I don't think he used the word "profitable."

Given that there is a SCASD grant supporting the flight, I would be surprised if he did.

mariner
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:26 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 14):
Quoting mayor (Reply 13):
Apparently, Provo's mayor doesn't realize that full doesn't always mean profitable.

I don't think he used the word "profitable."

Given that there is a SCASD grant supporting the flight, I would be surprised if he did.

Let me rephrase that.........apparently the mayor doesn't realize that great demand doesn't mean it's profitable enough to keep operating, not counting the grant.

Apparently, even with good demand AND the grant, it wasn't enough to keep operating. I can't think of any other reason to terminate service.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
tan1mill
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:29 am

Love many, Trust few, Always paddle your own canoe.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 15):
I can't think of any other reason to terminate service.

If Republic's E190's were not being removed from Frontier service, it might not have gone away.

Frontier is becoming an all Airbus airline and not even I think that PVU could support the A319.

mariner
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:35 am

Then, possibly, there's a communication problem at Frontier and the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. One person says they have no plans, at this time, to return and the mayor is getting the info that it's a fleet problem and only temporary and should be resolved when the fleet problems are resolved.


Who knows?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
spiritair97
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:36 am

I thought I read over the summer that the flights were averaging around 60% LF? I wasn't aware that they were full.

Also, what;s this I hear about the E-190s leaving?! When was this announced?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 18):
Then, possibly, there's a communication problem at Frontier and the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing.

It may be. Since Frontier hasn't put out a press release about the planned cuts yet, PVU may have jumped the gun.

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crj900lr
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 8):
Too many of F9's routes seems to be relatively short lived. I'm not convinced that all these newer oddball routes are working out great for them.

They are flying some of these new routes because there is money on the table for them, once the money is used up they will come up with an excuse as to why they are pulling out of a city then go and start service to another city who has cash on the table for them.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:12 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 8):
Too many of F9's routes seems to be relatively short lived. I'm not convinced that all these newer oddball routes are working out great for them.

The cuts this week-end affect some more mature routes.

The airline has a new CEO who is refashioning the airline, and is removing some (not all) of the dependency on DEN.

It is also true that unless a station can support the A319, it will not - eventually cannot - stay. So SBA, for example, goes to A319.

mariner

[Edited 2012-09-14 19:16:56]
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airliner371
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:26 am

Anyone know if F9 plans on keeping the TVs and what they plan on doing with WiFi? They added Gogo to the e190 but now they are getting rid of them.

Quote:
Also, what;s this I hear about the E-190s leaving?! When was this announced?

10 out of the 15 are leaving and they are looking for someone to take the 5 others. Its been known for a while now though.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):
Anyone know if F9 plans on keeping the TVs and what they plan on doing with WiFi? They added Gogo to the e190 but now they are getting rid of them.

Doesn't US Airways have Gogo wifi? I thought it did and it's taking 5 of the E190's.

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spiritair97
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
Doesn't US Airways have Gogo wifi?

US does have GoGo, but only on the a321s. It is also being installed in the E-175s this winter.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:43 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 25):
US does have GoGo, but only on the a321s. It is also being installed in the E-175s this winter.

It's installed on the 5 x E190 if they want to use it. Presumably, one day, they will. Be funny if they uninstalled it and then reinstalled it later.  

mariner

[Edited 2012-09-14 20:44:37]
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enilria
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:04 am

Quoting tan1mill (Thread starter):

It was just announced that Frontier will discontinue service to Provo effective January 7, 2013. According to one article, the reason has nothing to do with a lack of demand, but for other reasons.

If only I had a feather to knock me over.

I guess the subsidy must run out the day it is cancelled.  
Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Hardly the best thing since sliced bread, but an interesting move.

I said this was stupid and wouldn't last. Do I can any "I told you so" points?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 27):
I said this was stupid and wouldn't last. Do I can any "I told you so" points?

Since you say pretty much everything won't last, I guess you've got the bases covered.

mariner
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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:24 am

By the time this is reinstated (if it is), the UTA Frontrunner commuter train will be serving "Happy Valley" along the Wasatch Front. People in Provo, Orem, etc. will be able to go to SLC on it and connect to the light rail (TRAX) to the airport. Seems like a better option to me, considering the better connectivity out of SLC compared to DEN. Depending on your destination in the west, particularly, using SLC eliminates one stop on your trip, compared to leaving PVU for DEN and then connecting out of there. Now, if your destination is just DEN, it's probably handier, but I would imagine that at least 1/2 of the pax on board are connecting, if not more. Even if you're going east, SLC is still a better deal.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 29):
By the time this is reinstated (if it is), the UTA Frontrunner commuter train will be serving "Happy Valley" along the Wasatch Front.

I haven't heard that it will be reinstated. It would be nice, but I doubt it, because, as stated above, there won't be any E190's.

  

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mayor
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:22 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):

I haven't heard that it will be reinstated.

Just going by the mayor's statement, depending on how credible that is.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 31):
Just going by the mayor's statement, depending on how credible that is.

Fair enough.

I would count as a hope rather than an actuality, but I think PVU does have some potential. I think it would need PVU-LAX or LAS as well, though, not just DEN.

It also needs a larger terminal, because even the PVU blokes admit that a full A319 would create a very tight squeeze in the present building.

Even if it is all pipe dreams, that's not a problem for me. I've lived on pipe dreams all my life, and a fair few of them have become reality.

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illinoisman
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RE: Frontier To Discontinue Provo, Utah

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:54 am

Quoting tan1mill (Thread starter):
It was just announced that Frontier will discontinue service to Provo effective January 7, 2013. According to one article, the reason has nothing to do with a lack of demand, but for other reasons.

In the second link the quote from F9: "Provo has consistently failed to meet our expectations. We won't share hard data on the performance simply because of competitive reasons. As of right now there are no plans to return to the Provo market."

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 3):
I never thought this would work. Too close to SLC. Why fly Provo-DEN-ORD when you can drive to SLC go nonstop to ORD, not worry about weather in DEN, missing connection or canceled flights?

Personally while I wanted to try this service, I never did. The prices weren't amazing. The destinations I wanted to go to out east always required a several hour layover either direction in DEN due to the limited schedule in and out of PVU. The cost of gas and economy parking at SLC isn't so excessive to make it worth the hassle of layovers and early/late flights. If PVU does get another airline in I hope they have better connections and competitive pricing.