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jetjack74
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Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:38 am

Heard it today while talking the scuttlebutt and is supposed to be announced on Monday. Rumors are just rumours, I know. But there was something different about it, and from whom it came from.
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PIEAvantiP180
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:06 pm

About time if true. I've been saying they needed to announce this flight ever since they stopped ATL-PVG. DTW-PEK,PVG cover the east coast and i think they needed to add to SEA-PEK so they can have the west coast covered with all the connections that AS can provide for them out of SEA. Any rumour or speculation on what type of aircraft they might use for the flight? I believe a 767 with winglets should be able to do this route year round without restrictions.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:56 pm

That would be interesting. If true then DL would have the following international routes out of SEA:

AMS, CDG, NRT, KIX, PVG, PEK.

Not bad. Did I forget anything? I'd like to see LHR return with better flight times.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 2):
Not bad. Did I forget anything? I'd like to see LHR return with better flight times.

Delta is trying to add SEA-HND ,but we will have to see on that one
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:10 pm

If true, that route will be a great addition. I think that's a market that's likely to grow.

As a local spotter, I'd hope for more interesting metal than yet another 767, but I'll take what I can get.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:27 pm

Could that mean that China will respond with its own International service from some airline like China Southern or Shanghai Airways? Albeit several years ago, but Shanghai Airways had mentioned SEA when they received Dreamliners.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:43 pm

What about Sea-Hkg? Is there a market for this route by DL or by other airlines?
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:20 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 5):

China southern is sky team
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:39 pm

Just to add to add some grist to the rumor mill, I have heard that CX may be interested in starting up SEA - HKG service in the near future.
 
Context
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:58 pm

I continue to be pleasantly surprised at Delta's growth at SEA!

I wonder what this might say about their Asia strategy at DTW and MSP?
How strong is O&D at these airports for Asian destinations?
Will we see a shift of traffic away from DTW/MSP to Delta's growing West Coast focus cities?

This must be a cash cow for AS!
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting context (Reply 9):

We won't see that happen, DTW and MSP flights have feed from all over the east coast from large and small cities that do not have direct service from SEA. If they closed off the Asia flying from DTW and MSP all of those places would have to double connect and DL would lose all that traffic to hubs in the Midwest and east coast that do. In order to stay competitive with AA and especially UA that has major Asia gateways from EWR, ORD, and SFO DL will need a east coast gateway in DTW and a developing west coast gateway in SEA. When it's all seas and done I can see DL add LHR, NGO, PVG, and HKG to the portfolio of international flights already flown.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting context (Reply 9):
I wonder what this might say about their Asia strategy at DTW and MSP?

What "Asia strategy" does DL employ from MSP? You are aware there is only the single NRT flight on the 777 out of MSP?
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:32 am

well you won't see Shanghai Airlines in SEA with 787s they cancelled them and ordered more 737's this happen not long after they left STAR ALLIANCE.
Vietnam time..
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 10):
When it's all seas and done I can see DL add LHR, NGO, PVG, and HKG to the portfolio of international flights already flown.

LHR is another route mention in the conversation, but I would see that happen after the appropriate numbers of reconfigured 76T/Z are achieved and back flying. HKG is another imminent announcement IMO. In fact, it would not surprise me if HKG is announced along with PVG(whenever that truthfully is). Why spread the news out when you make a big bang all at once?
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 10):
When it's all seas and done I can see DL add LHR, NGO, PVG, and HKG to the portfolio of international flights already flown.

Do you really think SEA is that big? I'm not even sure if AS can supply enough connecting passengers. Then again I do tend to underestimate SEA. A little while ago I was surprised to see them serving AMS and CDG, so I guess LHR wouldn't be too hard to add
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:45 am

SEA has a bigger market than people realize. EK gets 15% of its SEA pax from Canada, mainly the Vancouver area. The fare difference is enough that many Canadians drive into the U.S. to begin their flights. This also applies to eastern Canada as well.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:25 am

DL needs to pick up their game to Asia. I really hope that DL adds more Asian flights from JFK. I would love to see JFK to PVG, PEK and HKG. I don't think that DL can keep getting away with relying on their one stops at NRT. It would add good competition to UA's Asian routes in the NYC area.
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 16):
DL needs to pick up their game to Asia. I really hope that DL adds more Asian flights from JFK. I would love to see JFK to PVG, PEK and HKG. I don't think that DL can keep getting away with relying on their one stops at NRT. It would add good competition to UA's Asian routes in the NYC area.

The problem is, that JFK is a nightmare to fly in and out of, whether you're connecting, beginning or ending your trip there. And it's very difficult to make JFK-Asia routes work. Most of the carriers, over the years, were either established US carriers(such as NW PA and later UA and CO, but only flew routes on a very small scale) and the state-run carriers like CX, CA and others. Plus the security taxes and departure taxes (from JFK's endless construction projects) make the entire NY area undesirable for the average passenger. You could get yourself a cheap fare out to the west coast and fly from SEA, SFO or LAX and save a few dollars in the process. And also, a majority of the Asian-American population lives on the west coast. And it makes the market worth investing in more than the likes of NY. It's just how the market rolls. Just because UA does it, doesn't exactly mean it's a major money-maker for them. SEA and PDX are the only major cities on the west coast that, until recently, were largely ignored by Asian carriers over the years.

[Edited 2012-09-15 19:55:29]
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 17):

CX a state run carrier? I don't think so.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:30 am

Quoting chris7217 (Reply 18):
CX a state run carrier? I don't think so.

I didn't mean they were all state-run carriers, but for the most part, "most" flag carriers in Asia are state-run
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:49 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 12):
well you won't see Shanghai Airlines in SEA with 787s they cancelled them and ordered more 737's this happen not long after they left STAR ALLIANCE.

That's too bad. Could SEA handle another PRC airline? Lately, YVR has been getting the majority of them.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 17):
SEA and PDX are the only major cities on the west coast that, until recently, were largely ignored by Asian carriers over the years.

SEA had plenty of SEA-Asia service in the past with NW, JL, TG during the 1980's and 1990's...any others?

Quoting traindoc (Reply 15):
SEA has a bigger market than people realize. EK gets 15% of its SEA pax from Canada, mainly the Vancouver area. The fare difference is enough that many Canadians drive into the U.S. to begin their flights. This also applies to eastern Canada as well.

I've also been told that EK's fares out of SEA are less expensive than SFO and LAX. AS has been seeing some feed into and from EK through SEA.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:03 pm

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 16):
DL needs to pick up their game to Asia. I really hope that DL adds more Asian flights from JFK.

Out of NYC, it seems that NRT/HKG are the largest destinations. I'm not sure there is enough O&D demand for PVG service on DL metal in addition to MU while the UA/CA PEK flying out of both EWR and JFK seems like a lot of service. DL does not have the robust hub at JFK that UA does at EWR, so I don't see them launching many other Asian destinations anytime soon. DL's push into NYC has been very interesting, but its success seems to have been mostly a domestic story with a number of Transatlantic markets thrown in the mix (many of which are seasonal) alongside NRT/GRU. Latin America seems a little weaker with mostly tourist/VFR destinations.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 17):
The problem is, that JFK is a nightmare to fly in and out of, whether you're connecting, beginning or ending your trip there.

That's supposed to change in 2013, when the Terminal 4 extension will be completed. There can be delays at almost any airport, and I find customs at Terminal 4 better than many other places. DL will have to work to change perceptions, though. Additionally, there is an inherent problem in DL's connecting traffic to/from JFK; it serves many larger markets that already have nonstop service to Europe. UA has nonstop service (often on 50-seaters) from many smaller domestic markets that provides feed for their service out of EWR.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 17):
The problem is, that JFK is a nightmare to fly in and out of, whether you're connecting, beginning or ending your trip

Indeed it is. In fact, It functions a lot like a hub with connections and such; but as a passenger - I'd avoid flying through JFK. I'd take DTW/ATL/MSP any day for connection.

I think JFK's Asia service on DL does well for the local market and feed. They've long been strong to Europe with DL, so until the full terminal rebuild is done - I think they are good for now.

If the "experience" improves, then we can take another look.
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 20):
SEA had plenty of SEA-Asia service in the past with NW, JL, TG during the 1980's and 1990's...any others?

And how well did those services do? NW(Whom I worked for) pulled out of HKG in 1998 after a 3 or 4 year-run, JL and TG left town ended up leaving town in the early 1990s and have yet to return. Did these airlines pull chocks from LAX or SFO and stay absent? No they didn't. With the exception of UA and NW, up until recently since NH arrived, SEA has virtually remained neglected over the years

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 21):
That's supposed to change in 2013, when the Terminal 4 extension will be completed.

Well, IMO it really doesn't matter what's "opening up" because leaving the new terminal thing out of the equation, it's the congestion inside and outside of the airport. Departure and arrivals stacked up waiting to leave, waiting for a gate, waiting to land. The terminal is most-likely going to have countless teething problems which will only add to frustration of flying out of JFK. And then there's the constant construction outside of the terminal, traffic diversions, switch-backs while trying to navigate around the ring around the terminals. It's just a mess. When they finish one project, they immediately move on to another improvement project, it's never-endng. In SEA, every 5-10 we see a "major project, ie; the revision of the tramway and S-gate security back in 2001, the extension to the A-concouse(which had almost zero interference on pax operations, and the most inconvenience experienced by passengers has been the replacement of all escalators and elevators, which has been the biggest headache we've had to endure. Most of all of the big projects in SEA, have been off the airport grounds, unlike JFK which right the middle of it all. It's no party there, Just sayin.
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gigneil
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:42 am

Your post confuses me. Are we talking about SEA being JFK? Is it good, or bad?

NS
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 10):
When it's all seas and done I can see DL add LHR, NGO, PVG, and HKG to the portfolio of international flights already flown.

That sounds pretty reasonable. I hope we continue to see sustainable growth at SEA.

Quoting michman (Reply 11):
What "Asia strategy" does DL employ from MSP? You are aware there is only the single NRT flight on the 777 out of MSP?

Didn't realize that! A few years back (shortly after the NW/DL merger) I actually flew back to MSP to catch a 744 flight to NRT, seems things have changed!


DL's ambition at SEA is exciting but it leaves me concerned about the customs facilities at SEA; they can be atrocious even when just two flights have land at the same time. I hope the Port of Seattle's plan to fix the problem will be complete in time for the expansion we've been experiencing or I fear SEA will earn an even worse reputation as a port of entry!   
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting gigneil (Reply 24):
Your post confuses me. Are we talking about SEA being JFK? Is it good, or bad?

I'm talking about the advantages of flying to Asia via SEA over flying out of JFK, and the reason's it's so under-utilized on flights to/from Asia.

Quoting context (Reply 25):
DL's ambition at SEA is exciting but it leaves me concerned about the customs facilities at SEA; they can be atrocious even when just two flights have land at the same time. I hope the Port of Seattle's plan to fix the problem will be complete in time for the expansion we've been experiencing or I fear SEA will earn an even worse reputation as a port of entry!

Yeah, it is a little bit messy, which is why I thing the N satellite should have it's own customs facility as well. They're eventually probably going to need to place more customs agents, escalators, baggage carousels, etc. Arrival times will have to be spaced out a bit to allow for flow-through to prevent overcrowding.
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AF185
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:50 am

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 13):
HKG is another imminent announcement IMO. In fact, it would not surprise me if HKG is announced along with PVG

SInce DL stopped its HKG-DTW route 2 weeks ago, I also believe they will add a new direct flight from HKG to the US, either JFK or SEA
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:44 am

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 21):

That's supposed to change in 2013, when the Terminal 4 extension will be completed.


Yeah, the new terminal is supposed to be a lot more spacious and have remote stands were aircraft can be serviced (cleaned, catered, etc) and not take up gate space. I'm wondering if they will announce some new int'l routes from JFK in conjunction with the T4 opening.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 13):
In fact, it would not surprise me if HKG is announced along with PVG(whenever that truthfully is).

That would be great and make SEA a nice Asia focus city. But is there enough demand for all these routes so they wouldn't cannibalize each other?
 
rwsea
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:50 am

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 28):
That would be great and make SEA a nice Asia focus city. But is there enough demand for all these routes so they wouldn't cannibalize each other?
Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 23):
And how well did those services do? NW(Whom I worked for) pulled out of HKG in 1998 after a 3 or 4 year-run, JL and TG left town ended up leaving town in the early 1990s and have yet to return. Did these airlines pull chocks from LAX or SFO and stay absent? No they didn't. With the exception of UA and NW, up until recently since NH arrived, SEA has virtually remained neglected over the years

My understanding was that the NW flight to HKG was always full, but the yields were the problem. The route was run with a 742. I think that with a smaller plane (such as the 332 if possible, or if not, then a 777) that the route could be much more successful, especially given the feed from the AS network (as well as DL's own network).
 
SeaMeFly
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:56 am

Quoting rwsea (Reply 29):
My understanding was that the NW flight to HKG was always full, but the yields were the problem. The route was run with a 742. I think that with a smaller plane (such as the 332 if possible, or if not, then a 777) that the route could be much more successful, especially given the feed from the AS network (as well as DL's own network).

And also at that time, cargo is a separate entity .. Now that DL has eliminated that program, hopefully with cargo included on the flight, yields won't be a problem anymore.
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:05 am

Interestingly, Richard Anderson, Delta's CEO, signalled the possible launch of this route earlier this year:

http://seattletimes.com/text/2017630265.html
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:36 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 20):

SEA had plenty of SEA-Asia service in the past with NW, JL, TG during the 1980's and 1990's...any others?

CO, AA, UA come to mind, not to mention the DL Asian hub just down the road at PDX, with a DL 72S SEA-PDX-SEA
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Do you really think SEA is that big? I'm not even sure if AS can supply enough connecting passengers. Then again I do tend to underestimate SEA. A little while ago I was surprised to see them serving AMS and CDG, so I guess LHR wouldn't be too hard to add

In my personal oppinion i thing they can. Just think of JFK, DL only has about 190 daily flights but most of them are timed for the major evening push to Europe and they manage to support all those international destinations. Yes JFK O&D is large and they have every major city in the country behind the connecting bank to feed the Europe flights but i can see SEA performing the same way. AS does not need to have 500 daily flights out of SEA to support the international growth they just need enough at the right time of the day. This is a look at DL and AS network to support SEA Asia and Europe flying:



This is my vision for AS-DL partnership out of SEA over the next 5 years. Every single one of these destinations could be served with either a 767-300ER or a A330-200. SEA to NRT, NGO, KIX, ICN, PEK, PVG, HKG, TPE, LHR, AMS, CDG, and FRA.

 
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jetjack74
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting AF185 (Reply 27):
SInce DL stopped its HKG-DTW route 2 weeks ago, I also believe they will add a new direct flight from HKG to the US, either JFK or SEA

I think it will be SEA, and I wonder what we'll use, a 777 since it's been vacated from DTW. And I wonder how it might rotate through the SEA, will NRT up-gauge to a 777? It would make sense since 155/156 from NRT-HKG-NRT is a 777, it kinda would be a no-brainer unless the cost factor of the route would prohibit that. Ot would reduce a few seats and allow the NRT to upgrade to better onboard amenities. It would also kind of put it in a class with UA and NH's service, without us having to wait for the reconfiguration process of the A330 fleet. That or either an 332.
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 33):
This is my vision for AS-DL partnership out of SEA over the next 5 years. Every single one of these destinations could be served with either a 767-300ER or a A330-200. SEA to NRT, NGO, KIX, ICN, PEK, PVG, HKG, TPE, LHR, AMS, CDG, and FRA.

That is quite ambitious but it seems that DL is pretty committed to SEA at the present, I daresay it may even reach "hub" status (with a big thanks to the AS feed.)

And before anyone throws out the DL+AS merger prospect don't forget AS has a huge partnership with AA @ LAX and their costs are much lower. Won't lie, as a DL fanatic, I'd love to see it (to the woe of many on here) but it would probably mean the dismantling of a great part of AS and AS would lose more than it would gain.

It's Monday, any news on the announcement (or lack of one?)
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bobnwa
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:47 am

Wow another pre announcement of a pending announcement on Anet, that never came about!!!!  
 
rwsea
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 34):
I think it will be SEA, and I wonder what we'll use, a 777 since it's been vacated from DTW. And I wonder how it might rotate through the SEA, will NRT up-gauge to a 777? It would make sense since 155/156 from NRT-HKG-NRT is a 777, it kinda would be a no-brainer unless the cost factor of the route would prohibit that. Ot would reduce a few seats and allow the NRT to upgrade to better onboard amenities. It would also kind of put it in a class with UA and NH's service, without us having to wait for the reconfiguration process of the A330 fleet. That or either an 332.

At first glance, moving NRT to a 777 would make sense, but if all these new destinations were added (HKG, PVG) then the NRT flight would lose the pax that are currently connecting. NRT could even be downgauged back to an A332 or even a 763 if the HND application is approved away.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 35):
That is quite ambitious but it seems that DL is pretty committed to SEA at the present, I daresay it may even reach "hub" status (with a big thanks to the AS feed.)

I think that LHR might be realistic, along with HKG, PVG, and NGO. ICN could easily be covered by increased cooperation with KE, which already operates the route. TPE seems a bit far-fetched given the existing competition from BR, the fact that CI dropped the route, and that yields are poorer.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 36):
Wow another pre announcement of a pending announcement on Anet, that never came about!!!!

  

Yep, like you, i am still waiting.......on the 18th!
 
SeaMeFly
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:13 pm

oh be quiet ya'll !! it did say "RUMOUR" ! ;p
 
alexinwa
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:10 pm

So no news is bad news? Sucks!!!
You mad Bro???
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:35 pm

The rumor is that DL is going to start another SEA-Asia route in 2013;

HND or PVG, depending on the HND slot ruling.

If DL gets HND, its going with SEA-HND.
Otherwise DL will pursue SEA-PVG.

Apparently its one or the other, not both in 2013.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 41):

I'd rather see then start SEA-PVG. DL already has SEA-NRT and if they had to start SEA-HND with recent start of NH flying SEA-NRT i believe everybody's yields and load factors would suffer. I think SEA-HND would be a crewing, aircraft, and financial resource drain on DL that could be better deployed elsewhere.
 
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RE: Rumour: DL To Announce SEA-PVG On 9/17

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:12 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 41):
The rumor is

Kinda ironic posting a rumor in a rumor thread that never actually happened  
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)