KLAXAirport
Topic Author
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SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:20 pm

With Interjet flying to SNA from Gudalajara and Mexico City starting October 11th and WN starting service from Houston-Hobby to SNA starting on November 4th my question is, Are there any other routes/airlines that you guys would expect to come into SNA? I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA. No airline serves this route and the only competition would really be the EWR-SNA flights on UA. Will AC ever come back? I remember doing YYZ-SNA the one summer they did the flight and it was pretty full on the A319 but, the crew said going back they were only taking around 50 or so
people. WJ serves YYC and YVR to SNA so I could see AC doing a flight from Canada. The only question is gates?

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   
 
LAXintl
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:32 pm

Only question is slots....


In reality, you are asking airlines to return to routes that have failed.

AA tried JFK-SNA for a few years, while DL has tried it also as late as 2011.

Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.


Personally I'd look for SWA to continue to add to its SNA slot portfolio as the opportunities arise as it seems to be the most consistent and dedicated airline serving the airport.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Mcmax
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting KLAXAirport (Thread starter):
With Interjet flying to SNA from Gudalajara and Mexico City starting October 11th

When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
AA tried JFK-SNA for a few years, while DL has tried it also as late as 2011.

I am hopeful AA will restart the SNA-JFK again with their new cost structure, but I'm not holding my breath especially since AA's 757 fleet (which flew the route previously) is slowly being retired. And, for DL, didn't they replace SNA-JFK with SNA-LAS in order to hold the slot?
De minimis non curat lex tamen ego curao
 
midex461
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:45 pm

Wouldn't mind seeing either SNA-CLT or SNA-PHL on US
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KLAXAirport
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:53 pm

Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

DOT has approved the request and SNA has granted those two slots and service begins October 11!  

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   
 
LMP737
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:00 pm

New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.  
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:50 pm

Quoting midex461 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't mind seeing either SNA-CLT or SNA-PHL on US

US tried SNA-PHL for a very short time. They did PIT-SNA for many years.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 5):
New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.

Actually it's 5700 feet.   The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback. The 717 was the same during the short time Midwest Express flew into there. I'm not clear why the 737-800 can do a normal takeoff profile, but the 737-700 still has to do the special procedure, albeit fairly watered down.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.

Yep, unfortunately. AC also dropped out of SJC in around 2002.
 
LAXintl
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
When was this approved? I thought they had asked for DOT approval, but has DOT approved already? And, has SNA granted the two slots? I went to ocair.com, and didn't see any press release indicating the new service was approved.

All done. They even had their noise qualification test completed couple weeks back.

Follow the thread
Interjet Seeks To Add CHI, IAH, LAS, And SNA (by LAXintl Aug 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAV88
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:50 pm

Haven't some people speculated MIA-SNA could happen and that the demand was there for at least 1 x daily year round flight?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting KLAXAirport (Thread starter):
I could possibly see AA or DL starting JFK-SNA. No airline serves this route

I flew JFK-SNA the second day of DL's operation, plane was almost empty, same thing going back 3 days later. By the time I was ready to repeat the trip...it was cancelled.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
olddominion727
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:44 pm

AA, TW, HP, DL have all done SNA-JFK. It DOES NOT WORK. Not sure why. I am sure folks here that study the yields can better answer that. It seems SNA or BUR to JFK would be great with the areas they are in both relatively close to LA, Hollywood, Disneyland etc. but seems like no dice. Seems like it should be to me too... but the yields aren't there to keep it going.
 
chrisair
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:55 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback. The 717 was the same during the short time Midwest Express flew into there. I'm not clear why the 737-800 can do a normal takeoff profile, but the 737-700 still has to do the special procedure, albeit fairly watered down.

DL and AS have to do the power reduction on their -800s. AA is the only airline (I believe) that does a standard departure out of SNA with the 737-800. I suspect someone at AA told a few influential people in Newport and something happened.  
Quoting mcmax (Reply 2):
And, for DL, didn't they replace SNA-JFK with SNA-LAS in order to hold the slot?

I think they added it to SLC or one of the other hub airports. Only WN and FL do the SNA-LAS run.
 
LAXintl
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:59 pm

Yes Delta did SNA-LAS to sit on a slot
Delta Commence SNA-LAS Service (by LAXintl Nov 22 2010 in Civil Aviation)
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olddominion727
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:21 pm

you're right. LAS was a focus city for DL and did fly to SNA... they did LAX, SNA, SAN, FLL, JFK, DFW, SLC, ATL, CVG, BOS, MCO, TPA, SEA, PDX maybe MSY--all of these at one point or another. I may be missing a few. most of the ones were red-eyes from LAS if I remember correctly.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 11):
DL and AS have to do the power reduction on their -800s.

Is that right? I think you'd know because I believe you are an AS employee, from past posts. However, I worked with an AS pilot recently who also worked part time at my certain company. He told me that AS did the normal profile on the 738s, but not 73Gs.

In any event, I did fly out of SNA last year on the 7:00am SNA-SEA flight it was pretty lame. No full run-up before brake release; barely a steeper than normal climb; and barely a cutback. If I wasn't watching for the non-standard procedure, a normal passenger wouldn't really even notice anything different. They didn't even bother to announce it to the passengers like they used to. It was much more noticeable in a 737-400 or MD-80, which of course aren't as quiet as a 737NG.
 
connies4ever
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Air Canada has simply failed at secondary LA airports, both SNA and ONT were bust.

But what influence did the US economic collapse play into this ? Along with SJC, GSO, AUS, and some other destinations. Also wondering with the greater LA area, are lack of onward cnx ex SNA and ONT a factor, and what percentage of LAX-destined pax are going onwards (AKL, RAR, and PPT come to mind as AC don't serve any of them) ?

When (or if) the US economy comes back, I think AC might give SNA another go. Before it was a daily 319, perhaps 2x with an E190 might offer pax more flexibility.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:58 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 13):

you're right. LAS was a focus city for DL and did fly to SNA... they did LAX, SNA, SAN, FLL, JFK, DFW, SLC, ATL, CVG, BOS, MCO, TPA, SEA, PDX maybe MSY--all of these at one point or another.

Not to mention that NW had an LAS focus city for a while.

In addition to the usual DTW/MEM/MSP, NW served a few other cities from LAS in the mid-2000s. NW offered flights to LAX (feed for Asian routes), MKE, IND (which was 2x daily at one point, and even briefly stuck around after the DL merger), and some smaller Midwestern cities (FNT, GRR, MSN, FSD, DSM) as part of the heartland strategy. The small city runs were mostly done to scare G4 off the same routes (or nearby cities in the case of GRR), and were done with schedules similar to G4's on A319s. It worked for MSN, but not the others.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:27 pm

IIRC deltas recent JFK-SNA attmept had horrible times. With LAX having such frequency to JFK and low prices i think an airline needs good times or at least 2x daily to get people.

I think there is certainly demand if an airline would time it ideally or offter 2x time options but again it becomes an issue of slots. If not UA offers great and frequent service to EWR 3x a day and rumor is quite a profitable route so if no one wants to challenge them i am sure united has no problem moving those passengers to the tri-state area by themselves. Whenever i look that N/S up last minute it usually significantly noteworthy more expensive than LAX N/S even with uniteds 3xdaily its a great route for them

[Edited 2012-09-15 15:28:37]
 
LAXintl
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:47 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 15):
But what influence did the US economic collapse play into this ?

ONT was dropped in 2007

SNA dropped in 2010

I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

Even AC at LAX has been stagnant for ages. Imo more of things ongoing at AC, then market issues.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
connies4ever
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:05 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ

Traffic and cnx options at YYZ dwarf YVR.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
LAXintl
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:23 pm

If AC flew SNA-YYZ solely to collect connections to who knows where, they are a bigger fool then I thought.

The final AC SNA schedule had weak connection options at YYZ. AC785 had a 9am departure from YYZ with a 9pm return on AC786.

It helps if you have an underlying local market, and the reality is YVR is a 5x larger local market from SoCal than YYZ is.

Anyhow AC demise opened the door for WS at SNA, so it all worked out.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AirframeAS
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:46 pm

I know this is a huge pipe dream, but I'd like to see the new UA expand at SNA with more flights to/from DEN using the 738.
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southwest737500
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:48 pm

SNA- CLT would work great with a 752
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MaverickM11
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

LAX is by far the preferred airport for the area, and the volumes and yield reflect that. That's why a lot of things don't work at SNA: the fares are lower, the market is smaller, and the prize for that is a mountain of Byzantine paperwork.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
connies4ever
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:20 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
It helps if you have an underlying local market, and the reality is YVR is a 5x larger local market from SoCal than YYZ is.

What about the reverse ? YYZ and hinterland are much larger than anything on the Wet Coast. That may have been the underlying argument at AC. In any event, hurdles AC had to go through for access to SNA obviously weren't worth it, and of course there is the "opportunity cost" argument: perhaps the 319 allocated to YYZ-SNA was better used elsewhere.

As for WS service to SNA, they are basically a Western Canada-focused airline, their presence in Eastern Canada is fairly minimal. For example, Toronto-Ottawa/Montreal they are now #3, being eclipsed by PD.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
laca773
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:34 am

How is FL/WN doing on their daily SNA-MEX, and SNA-SJD flights? Are they planning on adding SNA-GDL?
 
traindoc
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:37 am

SNA to EWR seems to work for UA. Do they have better connections via EWR than are avaiable at JFK? I would expect that pax travelling to major European destinations would prefer non stop service from LAX, rather than connecting via EWR or JFK.
 
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longhauler
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:39 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
If AC flew SNA-YYZ solely to collect connections to who knows where, they are a bigger fool then I thought.

AC, (and most large airlines) have access to numbers we can only dream of. If the market was not there, there is not much they can do.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
The final AC SNA schedule had weak connection options at YYZ. AC785 had a 9am departure from YYZ with a 9pm return on AC786.

The only connections AC was interested in was to eastern Canada, ie, YOW, YUL, YHZ, YYT, etc, and all of those had good connections to and from SNA at YYZ with the revised day turn schedule.

One may think that connections out of YYZ to Europe would be healthy, but what AC found is that with American carrier competition, the fares for SNA (through YYZ) to Europe, were less than originating YYZ traffic! In other words, SNA-YYZ-FRA (for example) fares were less than YYZ-FRA! So the schedule was rejigged to basically O&D traffic .... and that was not enough to sustain even a 93 seat E190.

Why YVR-SNA or YYC-SNA was not flown is anyone's guess.
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laca773
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
SNA to EWR seems to work for UA. Do they have better connections via EWR than are avaiable at JFK? I would expect that pax travelling to major European destinations would prefer non stop service from LAX, rather than connecting via EWR or JFK.

It's called money and where there's a lower fare, the majority will connect.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:04 am

Non stop from lax is a very limited offering to europe. Ewr offers tons and tons more
 
Beardown91737
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:18 am

It's also called widespread disdain for LAX.
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asteriskceo
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 25):

How is FL/WN doing on their daily SNA-MEX, and SNA-SJD flights? Are they planning on adding SNA-GDL?

Loads are pretty good for SNA-MEX and SNA-SJD, however the flights that bring the planes in/out (SFO-SNA, LAS-SNA) have *horrible* loads. We're talking in the teens, twenties, most of the time.
 
burnsie28
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:19 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
smaller Midwestern cities (FNT, GRR, MSN, FSD, DSM)

Add FAR, and I think a couple others.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
It worked for MSN, but not the others.

Actually I heard all of it was doing quite well, however, once NW entered bankruptcy and with as many 319's as they gave back, it wasn't possible to run those LAS flights anymore.
 
LMP737
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
Actually it's 5700 feet. The 737-800 has FAA approval to do a normal takeoff profile out of SNA. It has apparently demonstrated that it can meet the noise requirements with the steep climb and power cutback

When it gets hot in the summer time the -800 will get load restiricted. That's why I prefer a RR powered 757 when flying out of SNA.  
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:24 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
I don't know how you want to define "economic collapse", but my take is the routes failed for their own reasons (for example SNA should have been connected to much bigger YVR not YYZ, plus the YYZ times were bad for connections ex YYZ).

Canadian snowbird/resort/cruise ship business at SAN and SNA seems to come from YYC, YEG, and YVR and not from YYZ. I don't see how the size of YVR vis-a-vis YYZ bears on the issue.
 
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STT757
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting traindoc (Reply 26):
SNA to EWR seems to work for UA.

EWR-SNA was one of the first routes CO launched in the Spring of 1994 when they took delivery of their first 757. CO, and now UA, have been serving the route uninterrupted since 1994. They switched from once daily 757 to three times daily 73Gs when they were delivered in the late '90s.
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737tanker
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:40 pm

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 5):
New terminal, new flights out of SNA and the same old 5600ft runway! With the the vertical climb on takeoff and the carrier landings.


That is a challenge. When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 36):
When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.

Peace in the Middle East would have been simpler and more likely
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LAXintl
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 24):
What about the reverse ? YYZ and hinterland are much larger than anything on the Wet Coast. That may have been the underlying argument at AC.

Does not change the fact that YVR produces 5x the traffic to SoCal then does YYZ.

Yes YYZ might be AC premier hub and biggest city in Canada, but its a much smaller market than YVR is to LA basin.

Based on AC's initial schedule it was pretty apparent they hoped SNA would produce traffic flow to their European network.

When that they did not happen they changed the schedule to a morning YYZ departure and evening return. I'm not sure where one connects to at YYZ at 10pm, but clearly the options are less and route become reliant on a smaller local O&D base.

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 36):
When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.

A whole other discussion, but community did not want to see continued use of El Toro as an airport and opted to turn it into other more mundane uses.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SANFan
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:06 pm

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 34):
Canadian snowbird/resort/cruise ship business at SAN and SNA seems to come from YYC, YEG, and YVR and not from YYZ.


Maybe true for SNA but as far as SAN is concerned, AC has op'd daily nonstop year-round Airbus service to/from YYZ since Summer of 2010. (Prior to that, they served the route inconsistently since Summer of 2006.) Once AC got away from their constraining gate and schedule arrangement with UA, in June of 2010, things seem to be going fine.

AC also flys daily and year-round SAN-YVR (and has since Winter of 2005) and WS has served SAN-YYC since June of 2009. We seem to be in a good place with Canada service now.

bb
 
chrisair
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
I think you'd know because I believe you are an AS employee, from past posts. However, I worked with an AS pilot recently who also worked part time at my certain company. He told me that AS did the normal profile on the 738s, but not 73Gs.

Not an AS employee. I did, however, take the SNA-SEA flight that was operated by the -800 (I think, but to be honest they all look the same from the inside), and we did the typical power reduction.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 14):
In any event, I did fly out of SNA last year on the 7:00am SNA-SEA flight it was pretty lame.

I think it depends on your pilots and of course the weight of the plane. I had one AS flight (and many WN ones!!) where I swear our pilots had to be ex-military demonstration pilots. Whomever was flying the departure sure did a real quick pitch reduction. Reminded me of the old departure where they'd chop the power at 500 ft and not 800-1000 ft.

Quoting asteriskceo (Reply 31):
however the flights that bring the planes in/out (SFO-SNA, LAS-SNA) have *horrible* loads.

I flew FL SNA-SFO a few weeks ago. We had 60 something on the flight, and only three of us in F. It was my first experience on FL in about 10 years. I'll probably be back on that flight a few more times this year. Much more sane than the 615p WN SNA-SFO flight.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 40):
Reminded me of the old departure where they'd chop the power at 500 ft and not 800-1000 ft.

I didn't know they ever chopped power at 500 feet. What model was that?

The 757 can go from a 25 degree pitch to a 5 degree pitch at the power cutback, so that's pretty intense (normal initial climb pitch is around 15 degrees). The 737-700 is more like from 18 to 12 degrees, so the procedure really isn't that much different than normal these days.

Like I said, an AS pilot told me that they don't have to cut power in the 737-800, just like AA doesn't. So that's all I have to go by. Anyone else know?
 
chrisair
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):
I didn't know they ever chopped power at 500 feet. What model was that?

Pre-1992 they cut power at 500 feet. Much to the chagrin of area residents they increased the altitude to 800 feet. Here's the first article I could find. http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-...local/me-3995_1_john-wayne-airport
 
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fxramper
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:24 pm

I'll state the obvious, again. There isn't' a ton of room for new routes and definitely not expansion for a slot restricted airport. SNA serves SoCal and does everything the residents in the area want; especially the general av owners that park a plane at the airport or commute on a private jet.
 
Beardown91737
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:25 pm

"SNA Expanding" brings visions tunneling the 405 freeway under a runway extension.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 43):
SNA serves SoCal and does everything the residents in the area want;

It can't be said any better than that. The neighbors don't want more than what is there, and El Toro was not a popular idea in Orange County.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
SANFan
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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
Based on AC's initial schedule it was pretty apparent they hoped SNA would produce traffic flow to their European network.

When that they did not happen they changed the schedule to a morning YYZ departure and evening return. I'm not sure where one connects to at YYZ at 10pm, but clearly the options are less and route become reliant on a smaller local O&D base.

Thought I'd mention that AC did pretty much the same thing in SAN, trying both the mid-day turn here as well as the evening arrival/morning departure routine for their YYZ service. Surprising (to me anyway) is that once they got out from under the gate limitations they faced with United, AC quickly went back to the mid-day turn here and now seem to be happy with it. The local O&D traffic seems to be the market that works for them here.

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RE: SNA Expanding - Any More New Routes?

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 36):
That is a challenge. When the Marines left El Toro they should have moved the airlines over there and left SNA to GA.

What MaverickM11 said.

"Peace in the Middle East would have been simpler and more likely"

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 44):
"SNA Expanding" brings visions tunneling the 405 freeway under a runway extension.

Which would not happen since it would turn the 405 parking lot into an end of the world movie. Building a bridge over the 73 and taking over the golf course would be more likely. Not very likely but more so than a 405 tunnel.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
A whole other discussion, but community did not want to see continued use of El Toro as an airport and opted to turn it into other more mundane uses.

Also the people living in that part of Orange County had the money and resources to put up an effective fight against it.
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