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CrimsonNL
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Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:48 pm

Airplane number 2 of the Breitling Jet Team, an L-39 Albatross, crashed near Valkenswaard (The Netherlands) today, on their way back from an airshow in Den Helder. The pilot and a passenger riding in the back ejected safely and reportedly have minor injuries.

(Dutch only, sorry) http://nos.nl/artikel/419146-straaljagercrash-in-valkenswaard.html

I'm quite shocked by this news as I saw them perform at the above mentioned airshow just an hour before the crash. It was their last show of the season and they were heading back to their home base.. The show I must add, was excellent as always! I hope the crew will be alright.

Martijn
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Owleye
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:28 pm

Lates news says: 1 pilot is okay, 1 pilot has hurt his back caused by his rough parachute landing. The Breitling Team is based this weekend at Kleine Brogel AFB for the Sanicole Airshow (Leopoldsburg) last Friday and tomorrow, Sunday. Today the team displayed at the Den Helder Airport Airshow. The team almost reached Kleine Brogel but one of them crashed in a field near the Dutch-Belgian border. No fire, maybe the plane ran out of fuel though that theory is doubtfull as it could have made a fuel stop at nearby Eindhoven AFB. On the picture it looks that it caught a small fire maybe due with a bit fuel left...

Breitling crash 15 september 2012




[Edited 2012-09-15 13:36:18]
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:31 pm

I'm no expert but it seems odd the airplane didn't catch fire unless it went in at a very shallow angle and slid to a stop with no major damage.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:28 pm

That is good to see that they have ejection seats. The L-39s in the USA are not allowed to have ejection seats due to some dumb FAA rule. Had they been allowed, there is a chance that the pilot in the Hoppers L-39 crash in Iowa a couple weeks back might still be alive. The plane at least was also more recognizable post crash than the Hoppers one.
 
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PW100
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:55 pm

Do they have ejection seats? Some media here indeed reported that the pilots used their ejection seat. However the official local police statement was that both crew members parachuted themselves to safety . . .
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aerorobnz
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:02 pm

Sad to see, I saw them all in TLS earlier in the year with the A380 and I believe I saw #2 by itself a few days later in FNI. Glad all are well though...
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michaeljp
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 4):
Do they have ejection seats? Some media here indeed reported that the pilots used their ejection seat. However the official local police statement was that both crew members parachuted themselves to safety . . .

Without wishing to sound like an arrogant chap - how can you parachute out of a moving aircraft without an ejector seat? :P

Glad the crew are ok!
 
DualQual
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting michaeljp (Reply 6):

WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.
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michaeljp
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):


WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.

This I did not know - I stand corrected   
 
captainstefan
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:20 am

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.

Do a search for Glen Beneda, great story started off with a bailout - and this is not limited to WWII - Sean D Tucker had to do it in 2006.
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fvtu134
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:13 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 3):
That is good to see that they have ejection seats. The L-39s in the USA are not allowed to have ejection seats due to some dumb FAA rule. Had they been allowed, there is a chance that the pilot in the Hoppers L-39 crash in Iowa a couple weeks back might still be alive. The plane at least was also more recognizable post crash than the Hoppers one.

Actually Ejection seats are allowed but then they need to be serviced according to manufacturer standards and us only certified parts etc... There is a tendency to believe that it's possible to belly land these aircraft into a field due to a fairly benign landing speed but then again this is not a cessna and these aircraft spend a fair bit of their time with the horizon anywhere but horizontal. Most cartridges have a 6 year shelf life and a 3 year installed life, which means you need to count for about 15.000 USD every three years (including chute repacks). This is the bit where most L-39 owners cut corners and where people like the Breitling team set themselves apart.
The L-39's VS-1-BRI Ejection seats, while not the latest technology have a good safety record of getting the pilot out ok, as long as he's inside the envelope. (it's not a zero-zero seat, you need about 90kts/150km/h to get out). Initial reports seem to indicate just that. Crew got safely out of the aircraft and that's what counts.
Hope Jacques Bothelin and his guys will be up in the air soon.

Quoting Captainstefan (Reply 9):
Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.

Do a search for Glen Beneda, great story started off with a bailout - and this is not limited to WWII - Sean D Tucker had to do it in 2006.

Actually if you search for the Flying Legends Mustang crash of 2011 on Youtube you get a perfect example of how a bailout should go.

FVTu134
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:45 pm

From the Breitling Jet Team FB page;

Quote:
Dijon, France: 15-09-2012
The Breitling Jet Team thanks everyone for showing their support and concern, but would like to confirm that all their pilots and technicians are fine and well.
During a ferry flight late this afternoon, one L-39c Albatros jet aircraft experienced technical difficulties. The pilot calmly reported the problem to the team, and following the standard safety protocols prepar
ed his aircraft and his technician for the ejection procedures.

The pilot’s experience and professionalism ensured that the aircraft would land in a field away from houses, people or livestock. After ejecting, both himself and his technician landed safely under their parachutes. Both were taken to hospital for precautionary checks, but both are fit and well and looking forward to getting back to their team.

Further news to follow tomorrow…
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petrudimoff
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:53 pm

I hope the crew to recover soon
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captainstefan
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:18 am

Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 10):
Actually if you search for the Flying Legends Mustang crash of 2011 on Youtube you get a perfect example of how a bailout should go.

Right you are - I think both examples I metioned hit their empannage during the bailout.
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planespotting
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting Captainstefan (Reply 13):
Right you are - I think both examples I metioned hit their empannage during the bailout.

It's hard to tell in the video - did the mustang pilot strike the tail? If not, it looks like he came pretty close. Does the whole parachuting-from-a-cockpit process boil down to having enough strength to jump hard enough to propell yourself away from the inside of the cockpit (I imagine that guy had to climb and stand on top of the seat?) or what? Thanks for suggesting the video.
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captainstefan
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:38 am

Quoting planespotting (Reply 14):
did the mustang pilot strike the tail?

I heard Beneda's brother give a little presentation on the story of the rescue and Glen did mess up his leg pretty badly on the tail whn jumping out - the Chinese who helped him had to use a makeshift stretcher to move him from camp to camp.

For your second question, yes it does come down to strength in jumping out, but remember that when you're bailing out of your airplane there is most likely some heavy structural damage, so any predictability of what the airplane will do (especially once you remove your weight from the frame) is gone. You may jump and do everything to a T and still slice yourself in half with the stabilizer.
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MD-90
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RE: Breitling Jet Team L-39 Crash

Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 7):
WW2 style, open the canopy and get out. Roll inverted and unbuckle. It can be done.

It's also another option if the ejection seat fails to fire. Very important to roll inverted before jumping out of an L-39.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Fleetwing1627/emergencyejectionoptions_zps1abf4699.jpg

Quoting FVTu134 (Reply 10):
Actually Ejection seats are allowed but then they need to be serviced according to manufacturer standards and us only certified parts etc... There is a tendency to believe that it's possible to belly land these aircraft into a field due to a fairly benign landing speed but then again this is not a cessna and these aircraft spend a fair bit of their time with the horizon anywhere but horizontal.

I've read that about 30% of the US fleet (200+) of L-39s fly with active seats. They're not cheap and they do have a limited envelope, more limited than that of modern US, British, or Russian 0-0 seats.