mffoda
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BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:35 pm

For any of you tracking the BA 787 & A380 deliveries, ATW has this piece on said topic.

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...first-787-a380-delivery-dates-0917


"British Airways (BA) has announced delivery dates for the first of its 24 Boeing 787s and 12 Airbus A380s.

The first 787-8 is expected to arrive in May 2013; a further three of the type should be delivered by year end. The first three A380s will be delivered in July, September and November 2013."
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lightsaber
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:41 pm

Quoting mffoda (Thread starter):
"British Airways (BA) has announced delivery dates for the first of its 24 Boeing 787s and 12 Airbus A380s.

The first 787-8 is expected to arrive in May 2013; a further three of the type should be delivered by year end. The first three A380s will be delivered in July, September and November 2013."

Wow! In a way, BA is letting Boeing and Airbus know to keep to schedule. It will be very interesting to see how BA utilizes the 787s and all of their BMI slots. With the A380, it will be very interesting to see how they are deployed.

Overall, we will be wishing BA well in 2013!

Lightsaber
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mffoda
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
Wow! In a way, BA is letting Boeing and Airbus know to keep to schedule.

It also answers the question from the A380 production thread, as to how long it will take to deliver after it rolled out of body join facility with the painted tail and no engines on Sep 11.
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
sweair
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:03 pm

I guess BA went for RR engines? Would be strange if they didn´t.
 
divemaster08
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:27 pm

I for one will be looking forward to their news on the 787 routes. Also how they are going to be configured.

I know they say they are to replace the 767s, but I can imagine that it will be a couple of routes that see regular 787 service, while the rest wait for the rest of the 787s to replace the 767s.

Also as the LH 767s are 3 class with no F product, its going to be interesting to see if they stick with that set up on the 787s or will we see the F product on them, I kind of think they may go 4 class with them!

Still hoping that I will see one in GCM maybe in 2013!
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babybus
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:43 pm

I'll be interested to see how they utilize their A380s especially since they don't appear to have any fancy tricks up their sleeve like a spa, bar or shop onboard.

The fancy cabin operators may still run the show.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
roseflyer
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 4):
I for one will be looking forward to their news on the 787 routes. Also how they are going to be configured.

I believe I read on here that they are going to be 3 class C, Y+, Y with a new 7 abreast club world configuration.
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting babybus (Reply 5):
I'll be interested to see how they utilize their A380s especially since they don't appear to have any fancy tricks up their sleeve like a spa, bar or shop onboard.

IMO, the A380 will go where BA has at least 2x daily 744. Any less and it would too big of a bump in capacity: JFK, MIA, LAX, SIN, JNB.
 
qf002
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:22 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):

Makes sense, especially in BA's situation, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of strange routes once the fleet has built up a bit. There are plenty of cities where BA might be looking to add moderate amounts of capacity -- the A380 will offer them the ability to shift single daily 744 destinations to slightly more capacity without increasing underlying costs by adding flights (in exactly the same way that they would a 777 to a 744).

They are adding a great deal of flexibility to the fleet, so I think they'd be wise to use that flexibility rather than just sending this new plane on traditionally heavy traffic routes.
 
JerseyFlyer
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
A380 will go where BA has at least 2x daily 744. Any less and it would too big of a bump in capacity: JFK, MIA, LAX, SIN, JNB.

And HKG....
 
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
It will be very interesting to see how BA utilizes the 787s...
Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 4):
I for one will be looking forward to their news on the 787 routes.

  

I know there was talk that BA's LHR-SAN route would be a natural for the Dreamliner. However, since the LFs for the flights on the T7 have been excellent, particularly in the summer season, the most I could see would perhaps be to use the 787 for a few months (January-March?) during the winter. (July 2012 saw an average LF of 94% while February of this year saw the low LF of about 72%.) Of course I have no idea how the yields have been, or other particulars, but BA is definitely carrying lots of people (and apparently a good amount of cargo) on most of their flghts in and out of SAN.

bb
 
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fxramper
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:25 pm

Has BA discussed any routes for their A380 & B787?   
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:27 pm

I'm not sure the 388 will be overly used to US destinations as there is a concentration on frequency with a lot of them (JFK especially).

I think BA have already mooted HKG and JNB as destinations for the A380. Will be interesting to see how this pans out and it wouldn't surprise me if SIN got one based on QF's pending withdrawal from the kangaroo route.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:27 pm

I can hope for YYZ !
 
imiakhtar
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 3):
Would be strange if they didn´t.

Not really. BA (IAG) is a plc. If the competing engines represent better value for money for BA, then BA won't hesitate to have them hanging off the wings. The most recent A330 order for IB went to GE, as was the case for the initial 777s.

Also GE, much to RR's annoyance, won the very lucrative $2 billion MRO contract.

One can hope this fallacy that BA will only buy British will soon disappear.

AF on the otherhand ..........
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speedbird9
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:08 pm



Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 14):
Not really. BA (IAG) is a plc. If the competing engines represent better value for money for BA, then BA won't hesitate to have them hanging off the wings. The most recent A330 order for IB went to GE, as was the case for the initial 777s.

Also GE, much to RR's annoyance, won the very lucrative $2 billion MRO contract.

One can hope this fallacy that BA will only buy British will soon disappear.
Quoting sweair (Reply 3):

I guess BA went for RR engines? Would be strange if they didn´t.

actually according to this BA have selected RR engines for both the A380 and the B787's

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7015621.stm
"Both types of planes will be powered by Rolls-Royce engines, the airline said."


http://press.ba.com/?p=277
"British Airways has today placed an order for 12 Airbus A380 and 24 Boeing 787 aircraft with options for a further seven Airbus A380s and18 Boeing 787s. Both aircraft types will be powered by Rolls-Royce engines."

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil/new...007/british_airways_selects_rr.jsp
British Airways has selected Rolls-Royce Trent engines..........The order includes 12 firm and seven option Airbus A380 aircraft and 24 firm and 18 option Boeing 787s, scheduled for delivery from 2010."

maybe this is the reason BA chooses RR

Willie Walsh, Chief Executive Officer of British Airways, said: “The Rolls-Royce Trent family has a proven track record of strong environmental performance. The engines we have selected are supported by an innovative service offering and we know that they will deliver the best operational value.”

and as a RR shareholder I agree   

[Edited 2012-09-17 11:09:14]
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
IMO, the A380 will go where BA has at least 2x daily 744. Any less and it would too big of a bump in capacity: JFK, MIA, LAX, SIN, JNB.

The first 3 A380 will fly to HKG as that is BA's biggest city in Asia and JFK, with 7 744 daily how could they not do New York.
 
goosebayguy
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:57 pm

There is a huge weight saving when choosing Rolls Royce Trents. Wil make a real difference in coming years.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:09 pm

What fallacy that BA will only buy British? They HATE buying British. They wanted the B707 over VC10, reluctantly bought a bastardised Trident, wanted only four Concordes, refused to buy the Airbus and plumped for the L1011 and then replaced the Trident with the B757 over the A310.

They do have a good relationship with world class Rolls Royce however. The only time they haven't taken the RR option was the initial B777 order which was linked to the sale of the Welsh overhaul facility. Indeed later deliveries of the same series, B777-236ERs came with Rolls Royce engines rather than the inital GE90s.
 
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garpd
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 14):

One can hope this fallacy that BA will only buy British will soon disappear.

Care to explain the Boeings and GE90s they bought and operate?
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sweair
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:32 pm

Ok cracked shafts aside until Trent1000-TEN GEnx is the better choice for fuel burn on 788s. Trent missed a whopping 4% and Genx below 3%, with PIP1 they are about 1% over spec, at spec with pip2, Trent 1000B is still 2% above spec, C will be 1% over and TEN will be 1% better than spec.

So what do you choose, a cracked shaft and 1% over spec or 2% above with a Trent1000B.

Air France will probably go for RR, to have some sort of familiarity with their A350 engine pools. Will AF get any 787s or will they all go to KLM?
 
tom355uk
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:51 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 20):

It isn't just fuel burn tht determines the choice of engine on a particular model. You have to factor in purchase or lease costs (remember engines aren't included in deals normally, they're negotiated separately - is it purchase outright or power by the hour?). You also factor in expected lifetime maintenance costs, which particular engine suits the routes you want to deploy the aircraft on - a reason the T700 is so popular on the A330 is because of its strong performance at high atmospheric temperatures, and a host of other things. It's not simply down to fuel burn.

I can see the A388 being deployed on SIN, HKG and maybe LAX - I'm not so sure about JFK because LHR-JFK is a frequency dominated market, not so much pure seat availability. I may be wrong though, I often am  

The 787 will suit adding frequency to certain routes that maybe need it but can't support it with BA's current fleet: maybe a 2nd daily to GIG or GRU, maybe more Chinese destinations such as CAN. South America and Asia are where traffic growth lies, not North America.
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Revelation
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 17):
There is a huge weight saving when choosing Rolls Royce Trents. Wil make a real difference in coming years.

GEnx now is displaying an innovative spontaneous weight reduction feature, it chucks various compressor and turbine blades out the back end!
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Nibog
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:23 pm

I think from a PR point of view I can see the A380 deployed on the NYC route,and I wonder would one of the destinations for the 787 be YYC???
 
declarets
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:30 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 22):
GEnx now is displaying an innovative spontaneous weight reduction feature, it chucks various compressor and turbine blades out the back end!

I just spat my tea everywhere  
 
RAGAZZO777
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 21):
The 787 will suit adding frequency to certain routes that maybe need it but can't support it with BA's current fleet: maybe a 2nd daily to GIG or GRU, maybe more Chinese destinations such as CAN. South America and Asia are where traffic growth lies, not North America.

The 787 would be perfect for opening up BOG, LIM and SCL in South America IMO.
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imiakhtar
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 19):
Care to explain the Boeings and GE90s they bought and operate?

Well duh! That was precisely my point. Too many people are getting hung up on this notion that BA ordering RR engines is a given when, past purchases of the GE on the 777 and the awarding of the MRO contract suggest otherwise (I'm aware they went RR for the 787/A380). I was just contesting the point sweair made that BA engine choices were set in stone in favour of RR.
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hooverman
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:42 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 20):
Air France will probably go for RR, to have some sort of familiarity with their A350 engine pools. Will AF get any 787s or will they all go to KLM?

I believe that if AF has an option they will always go for GE.
The initial batch of 787's are for KLM.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 22):
GEnx now is displaying an innovative spontaneous weight reduction feature, it chucks various compressor and turbine blades out the back end!

 
 
ANA787
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:44 pm

When will BA announce its 787 destinations? I could see them running 787s to YYC, SAN, BWI, PDX, STL.
 
sydaircargo
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:25 pm

would be great to see the A380 in BA colors come to SYD , keeping the kangaroo route alife via SIN
 
FoxBravo
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
with 7 744 daily how could they not do New York.

Easily, if the A380 can't fit at their terminal. I don't think there are any gates at T7 with two jetways, let alone three. Even if it's physically possible to park an A380 there, it's definitely not a good setup for it.

I think our best hope for seeing new BA equipment in NYC would be a 787 at EWR, but I'm not holding my breath for that either...
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nomorerjs
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:44 pm

What about DFW and ORD for the 380? Both are huge 1W markets with 1 and 2 flights daily (of course AA frequency is more than double that). ORD may be a frequency market.
 
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:10 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 31):
What about DFW and ORD for the 380? Both are huge 1W markets with 1 and 2 flights daily (of course AA frequency is more than double that). ORD may be a frequency market.

ORD does not have any A380-capable gates, which is why LH is sending the 748I to ORD instead.
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YVRLTN
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:22 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 9):
Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
A380 will go where BA has at least 2x daily 744. Any less and it would too big of a bump in capacity: JFK, MIA, LAX, SIN, JNB.

And HKG....

YVR is rumoured to be fairly early on the list - 2x daily 744's 3.5 hours apart in summer. We are also A380 ready here for some reason...
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astuteman
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 20):
So what do you choose, a cracked shaft and 1% over spec or 2% above with a Trent1000B

Boeing suggest that Trent package B will be 1% above spec......

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...7-performance-spec-albaugh-354340/

Given a choice of cracked shaft and 1% over, or just the 1% over, I'd be looking for the latter.....   

In reality, you're making a mulit-dimensional comparision into a 1-dimensional one.......
not to mention ignoring the timelining of the progressive improvements..

Either that, or you're really trying to say that you know better than all the airlines that have ordered Trent 1000's .......  

Rgds
 
vv701
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 11):
Has BA discussed any routes for their A380 & B787?
Quoting ANA787 (Reply 28):
When will BA announce its 787 destinations?

Quote from the thread opener's link:

"A BA spokeswoman said the carrier will announce initial routes for the two new types later this year."
 
vv701
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:30 am

Quoting fxramper (Reply 11):
Has BA discussed any routes for their A380 & B787?
Quoting ANA787 (Reply 28):
When will BA announce its 787 destinations?

Quote from the Thread Opener's link:

"A BA spokeswoman said the carrier will announce initial routes for the two new types later this year."
 
airbazar
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:04 am

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 9):
And HKG....

I don't think so for the following reason...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
The first 3 A380 will fly to HKG as that is BA's biggest city in Asia and JFK, with 7 744 daily how could they not do New York.

SIN is slightly larger for BA than HKG. BA operates 2x744 to SIN vs. 744+777 to HKG. Plus all the seats they get on QF's A380's to SIN. HKG-LHR is CX's domain with 4x daily vs. BA's 2x, and I don't see BA upstaging CX at their home base by deploying the A380 there.
 
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:15 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
SIN is slightly larger for BA than HKG. BA operates 2x744 to SIN vs. 744+777 to HKG. Plus all the seats they get on QF's A380's to SIN. HKG-LHR is CX's domain with 4x daily vs. BA's 2x, and I don't see BA upstaging CX at their home base by deploying the A380 there.

Don't forget all of that capacity is because of the JSA with QF. Once that ends in April next year you might find SIN scaled back in capacity a little bit to cater for more O&D rather than connections.
 
kaitak
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 9):And HKG....
I don't think so for the following reason...

I think they've already announced that HKG will be one of the routes served, but I also think there is a good reason why HKG will be one of the routes served (when they have enough to mount a daily service - and that may not be before the end of 2013): there's a lot of competition on that route, but the one thing none of those other carriers has is the 380, so as a service differentiator, that's going to be a big plus; VS will still have the 346s, CX will have 77Ws and NZ, its 772s. The 380 will allow the airline to provide a selection of products to re-establish itself as the carrier of choice on that route and I think it will attract a very good following, given the 380's reputation for quietness.
 
thegeek
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:31 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 38):
Don't forget all of that capacity is because of the JSA with QF. Once that ends in April next year you might find SIN scaled back in capacity a little bit to cater for more O&D rather than connections.

Once the JSA ends, what of the code shares? Will BA still put its code on SIN-PER/ADL/BNE/CNS flights (perhaps DRW)? Similarly will QF put its code on the BA SIN-LHR flights? Probably answered in another thread, but I must have missed it.

I guess the same question with the BKK/HKG flights.
 
Sydscott
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:35 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 40):
Once the JSA ends, what of the code shares? Will BA still put its code on SIN-PER/ADL/BNE/CNS flights (perhaps DRW)? Similarly will QF put its code on the BA SIN-LHR flights? Probably answered in another thread, but I must have missed it.

Will QF put it's codes on BA services, probably not. There will be an interline agreement along normal alliance terms I'd have thought. Will BA put its codes on QF services, probably. The trick is that if QF services are re-timed for Australia/Asia O&D and away from connections you will have a long wait at SIN/BKK or HKG for your onwards BA flight which will make them less attractive. So I'd have thought SIN would probably go 777 or stay 747 rather than receiving an upgrade to the A380. I could even see a case where BA could send the 787 as a purely point to point play from LHR.
 
thegeek
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:47 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 41):

Still caters to the stopover market though.
 
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sturmovik
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:16 am

http://www.flickr.com/photos/aircrafts/7975838617/

Spotted this on the A380production website..   
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UA933
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:40 am

The painted tail looks more white compared to today's livery. Don't you think?
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sweair
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:16 am

Hey I was joking, don´t go all EMO on me..Both engines are probably the most efficient engines currently flying, relax.

Trent1000-TEN will be the best 788 engine when it arrives, 76K thrust is not bad either, from a 112 inch fan.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:30 am

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 14):
One can hope this fallacy that BA will only buy British will soon disappear.

If BA only bought British then surely they would have an all Airbus fleet considering where the wings are made and now that BAE Systems and EADS are looking to merge, Airbus will become a part British owned company again.
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:15 am

Interestingly, I recall on another thread about BA refurbishing 7 S/H and 7 L/H 767s (funded from 787 delays) the airline was considering paying to refurbish the remaining 7 L/H 767s too. Doing this would give BA greater flexibiity to expand the longhaul network, either through adding new routes with the 787 or deploying the 787 on some routes that they are better suited and deploy the released aircraft elsewhere (SAN's 777 and YYC's 767 have both been suggested as 787 routes in the past).
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VC10er
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:32 am

How long will it take BA to be fully rid of 744?
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frigatebird
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RE: BA Confirms 787, A380 Delivery Dates

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:34 am

Quoting UA933 (Reply 44):
The painted tail looks more white compared to today's livery. Don't you think?

Probably because on other aircraft the red extends to the tailcone:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Weimeng


Guess the height of the A380's tailfin has also something to do with it.
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7

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