User avatar
fxramper
Topic Author
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:58 pm

They've been doing this flight since 1979 and are finally drawing a line (political) and trying to dump this flight. I'm not sure the frequency they run TLV-CAI, but it can't' hurt their bottom line.   

http://www.france24.com/en/20120916-...aels-el-al-looks-end-cairo-flights
 
bastew
Posts: 745
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
and are finally drawing a line (political) and trying to dump this flight.

Are you saying the reason for El Al ceasing TLV-CAI is for political reasons? Reading the article it seems more economic based. Just as BA recently downgraded LHR-CAI from a 744 to an A321.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting bastew (Reply 1):
Are you saying the reason for El Al ceasing TLV-CAI is for political reasons? Reading the article it seems more economic based. Just as BA recently downgraded LHR-CAI from a 744 to an A321.
Quote:
"Without any commercial justification and in light of the high economic cost of operating this line, El Al cannot continue to bear these heavy expenses, and therefore is intending to stop operating the route to Cairo immediately," said the letter, excerpts of which were published in Maariv.

Doesn't sound political at all!

It seems the recent(ish) turmoil has really hurt traffic to CAI. UA even had EWR-CAI on the books before all of the riots began. Hopefully things will begin to settle down and traffic will pick back up.
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:12 pm

I think the OP means that operating the route is a political decision, even when its not a viable route.
 
Thomas_Jaeger
Posts: 2217
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2002 5:35 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:53 am

They are not just trying, the flights have already been suspended for some time. From what I can tell they first announced an interruption of flights in mid-April. Since then the resumption date has been constantly postponed.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 598
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:29 pm

I think they could be playing it safe to at the moment, things are not to good in the Middle East so supend the flights and wait till things settle down.
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:39 pm

Why is Israel govt. so adamant on LY maintaining this route when its not viable? they let Amman go, whats special about CAI? they wanted to drop it back with ORD, LCA and IST but were forced to keep it.
 
nyc2tlv
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:34 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:22 am

I believe that flights between CAI and TLV were part of the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel. Each country had to have flights to the other. Why LY was forced to do this was probably because of the small share the government owns. On the Egyptian side, they use the paper airline 4D which offers the entire MS network for connections from TLV to other key African markets (JNB, LOS, NBO).
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:07 am

So a political route that needs to end.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1627
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:38 am

I believe it is/was a weekly route, with a loadfactor far below any economical mindset. It was indeed part of the peace treaty between the countries.
With LY also facing rough economical times, they are really looking for ending this costly/useless route without harming the political situation between the given countries.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
AirGAbon
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:29 am

I am curious if LY has a permanent staff at CAI or if they travel each time from TLV with the aircraft? I imagine that the security cost must really high: dedicated location in the terminal, special handling agents etc. etc.

I am sure that the former operations to AMM were more easy than the CAI flights.
 
LY777
Posts: 2294
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:58 am

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 10):
I am curious if LY has a permanent staff at CAI or if they travel each time from TLV with the aircraft? I imagine that the security cost must really high: dedicated location in the terminal, special handling agents etc. etc.

I was wondering the same question...
Flown:717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, D8,D10,L1011, A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:38 pm

It should probably be remembered that most Israel-Egypt travel before last year was actually over the land border at Taba/Eilat, so LY/Air Sinai never really had the upper hand in the market to begin with.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 10):

I am curious if LY has a permanent staff at CAI or if they travel each time from TLV with the aircraft? I imagine that the security cost must really high: dedicated location in the terminal, special handling agents etc. etc.

I am sure that the former operations to AMM were more easy than the CAI flights.

I believe LY had some sort of permanent staff at CAI - the State of Israel maintained a huge security corps for its small presence in Cairo; LY generally has permanent staff at most of its stations too.

AMM operations were easier security wise for a number of reasons - better relations between the Jordanian and Israeli security forces being one of them. However, El Al doesn't quite have the metal for AMM - and RJ's TLV-AMM really benefits mostly from connections to India and Asia. Arkia does decently on AMM, from what I'm told by a friend at Arkia.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
AirGAbon
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:47 pm

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12):
I believe LY had some sort of permanent staff at CAI - the State of Israel maintained a huge security corps for its small presence in Cairo; LY generally has permanent staff at most of its stations too.

Thanks for the answer. I was also wondering why LY has almost always operated this short route to CAI in the middle of the night? Is it also for security reasons (i.e. more discretion, easier to secure the various areas = less people etc.)?
 
CXA330300
Posts: 1258
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 5:51 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
Thanks for the answer. I was also wondering why LY has almost always operated this short route to CAI in the middle of the night? Is it also for security reasons (i.e. more discretion, easier to secure the various areas = less people etc.)?

Probably some of that, but there's also a big bank of flights in the wee morning hours from TLV. There was a period during which LY sold TLV/CAI package tours with connections in TLV on the way back to Europe/USA.

More importantly, CAI was by far the shortest LY route for a long while, and many of the 737s were needed on longer R/Ts to Europe that left in the morning and returned in the evening.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
User avatar
yyz717
Posts: 15697
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2001 12:26 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:21 pm

This route is so hugely symbolic for everyone hoping for middle east peace. While EL AL needs to operate it on a commercial basis (at least somewhat), it would be a shame if this route ceased. It's so unfortunate that 30 years of peace betw Israel and Egypt (albeit a cold peace) have not yielded business and tourism opportunities to commercially justify this flight.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 13):
I was also wondering why LY has almost always operated this short route to CAI in the middle of the night? Is it also for security reasons

I read in another thread that EL AL operates the CAI route in darkness for security reasons. Same with the IST flights.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
tom355uk
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:34 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:46 am

Quoting bastew (Reply 1):

Actually, BA run a 772 on this route. It was a 744 route for years, then I think a while back it changed to 772. During the summer it switched to 744 again - not sure whether it was seasonal allocation or planned maintenance coverage and since the beginning of September it's back on 772. BMI used to run it with an A332, then it was down gauged to an A321 - which BA had continued to operate until the takeover was fully complete. I've a feeling it might have ended by now - if it hasn't it certainly will within the next few months.
on Twitter @tombeckett2285
 
GRUIAD
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:50 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:08 pm

The TLV-CAI route was a lot stronger when tourism to Egypt was at its peak. The route was important for tour operators that linked tours of the holy land with Egypt - so the routes was typically patronized by third-country tourists going between the two countries.
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:24 pm

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 16):
Actually, BA run a 772 on this route. It was a 744 route for years, then I think a while back it changed to 772

BA LHR-CAI is due to change to the new midhaul A321. I think the changeover is scheduled to take place in January once sufficient A321s have been refurbished [with new flat bed [mid-haul] Club World seating and individual IFE throughout the plane] to cover the route.

There will also only be one BA flight a day instead of 2 with BA/BD.
 
tom355uk
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:34 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 18):

Will these be the former BMI (BMED) aircraft? Don't they already have the old Club World seats, as BMI use(d) them on the EVN/IKA, AMM, and ADD routes?

I find the continued unrest really sad, as it must be decimating the tourism industry. I had the best holiday of my life in Egypt a couple of years back, and I adored Cairo - still my favourite city I've visited. At that time, flights were really difficult to get at a reasonable price, even with the capacity at the time well over 1000 seats per day: a legacy I think of the historic ties between Egypt and the UK. If a daily A321 is the best fit now, then it shows how things have gone downhill. Sad.  
on Twitter @tombeckett2285
 
todaReisinger
Posts: 902
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2001 4:19 am

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:44 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 6):
Why is Israel govt. so adamant on LY maintaining this route when its not viable? they let Amman go, whats special about CAI? they wanted to drop it back with ORD, LCA and IST but were forced to keep it.

Think of the Middle East modern history, the significance of the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, the hopes that surrounded this treaty and you'll easily understand "what is so special about CAI".

El Al planes over Cairo's skies and on CAI tarmac were supposed to symbolize what was seen as the start of a new era, an era in which Israel would finally be allowed to integrate into the region and in which peace would prevail.

Even though everybody is aware that things did not develop according to said hopes, the end of these flights is a bitter and strong reminder of this failure, and thus there is something very special about it.
I bitterly miss the livery that should never have been changed (repetition...)
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: EL AL Trying To End CAI Flights.

Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting tom355uk (Reply 19):
Will these be the former BMI (BMED) aircraft? Don't they already have the old Club World seats, as BMI use(d) them on the EVN/IKA, AMM, and ADD routes?

Yes I think the 'new' midhaul configured A321s are all ex BMI/BMED aircraft but they are being refurbed with a new 'club world' seat which had been ordered by BMI before they were taken over and which are now being fitted by BA. Along with CAI these 321s are also slated to be used on the new 3 daily TLV services [replacing the 2 existing dailies- 1x772 and 1x767] and certain of the surviving ex-BD mid haul services.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos