gesubsea
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BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:02 am

British Airways says it remains committed to the Australian market, despite speculation it may cut its remaining daily flight once its partnership with Qantas is dissolved.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...route/story-e6frg95x-1226476087724
 
PHX787
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:05 am

Well that'l kill the other thread.


Question....how many BA flights to the land down under are there per day? Where do those have to connect? SIN?

What's the load factors on these? If you're doing SYD to LHR it sounds like one helluva day of flying   
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tonystan
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:07 am

The other thread was mine but Im still delighted by the news! lol
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
mal787
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:36 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
If you're doing SYD to LHR it sounds like one helluva day of flying

23>24 if you go straight through long flight but i love it.
Good to see BA stay on the run and hopefuklly they keep it a 744 , still nice to have the singapore option on OW

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eta unknown
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:37 am

Playing devil's advocate and reading between the lines... sure, BA is commited to the Australian market and will continue to fly there, but does that necessarily mean using their own metal?
 
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a36001
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:56 am

It's good to see them stay. Just hope it's BA itself and not a CX code share (no offense to CX). Though if that did happen, would CX bring their 77W in place of A330's to SYD? Suppose they might go to the 744???  
 
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EK413
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:52 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

Daily B744 LHR-SIN-SYD...

EK413
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seabosdca
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:04 am

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 4):
Playing devil's advocate and reading between the lines... sure, BA is commited to the Australian market and will continue to fly there, but does that necessarily mean using their own metal?

  

Quoting A36001 (Reply 5):
Though if that did happen, would CX bring their 77W in place of A330's to SYD? Suppose they might go to the 744???

CX 744s are done. The future at CX is the 77W in the near term and the A350-1000 in the longer term.
 
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vhtje
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:50 am

Well, that's good news! I know we certainly won't ever go to SYD via DXB. Certainly not as a first choice, anyway.

Looks like BA will win our business in future then.

But what happens if I book with BA and want to go to, say, BNE or ADL? Fly BA to SYD then transfer to QF domestic?
 
thegeek
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:10 am

I think ADL-SIN will not last as a 3pw A333 on QF. Could possibly go 738 but more likely to be cut. Other cities I expect you would be able to use QF from SIN.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:31 am

I have seen these statements before only for that to change not too long down the track. The very nature of aviation should make that quite obvious that things move very quickly.

I can see them staying for a while, but if they do end up making a deal with MH, then that could well be their chance to make an exit with their own metal.
 
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EK413
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:03 am

Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
I know we certainly won't ever go to SYD via DXB. Certainly not as a first choice, anyway.

No idea what's the issue flying via DXB? The routing is shorter than flying via SIN...

Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
But what happens if I book with BA and want to go to, say, BNE or ADL? Fly BA to SYD then transfer to QF domestic?

Hit the nail in the head...

EK413
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CXfirst
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:35 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 11):
No idea what's the issue flying via DXB? The routing is shorter than flying via SIN...

Not true. SYD-LHR non-stop is 9188nm, SYD-SIN-LHR is 9274nm and SYD-DXB-LHR 9473nm.

There can be plenty of reasons to not want to fly through DXB. Maybe he doesn't want to support EK and Dubai with their huge expansion that has hurt local airlines.

-CXfirst
 
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BNE
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:19 am

Nice to read that BA will continue to serve Sydney for the short term.

I can see BA will stick around until the end of October, the finish of the northern schedule.

Ask this question again in 2 years it will be a different story.
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je89_w
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:34 am

Quoting mal787 (Reply 3):
Good to see BA stay on the run and hopefuklly they keep it a 744
Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Daily B744 LHR-SIN-SYD...

Would be nice if it becomes an A380.
 
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EK413
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:51 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
Not true. SYD-LHR non-stop is 9188nm, SYD-SIN-LHR is 9274nm and SYD-DXB-LHR 9473nm.

Probably a direct route would be shorter but your right with the DXB route adding an extra 199nm...

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
There can be plenty of reasons to not want to fly through DXB. Maybe he doesn't want to support EK and Dubai with their huge expansion that has hurt local airlines.

Possibly the reason to not fly via DXB... Must admit I haven't been a big fan of the rapid expansion until QF jumped into bed with EK 
Quoting je89_w (Reply 14):
Would be nice if it becomes an A380.

Wishful thinking isn't it but I believe we will see the A380 in SIN considering QF plan on increasing their presence in Asia...

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runway23
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:03 am

Quoting BNE (Reply 13):
Nice to read that BA will continue to serve Sydney for the short term.

I can see BA will stick around until the end of October, the finish of the northern schedule.

Ask this question again in 2 years it will be a different story.

Their Joint Venture with QF means they need to at least continue serving SYD until the end of March 2013.

After that is anyone's idea.

Whether they will keep the flight as it is via SIN, axe it, go via KUL or HKG is anyone's guess.

With the loss of capacity on SIN-LHR, I would personally be somewhat surprised to see SIN-SYD continue on BA metal, if BA does not increase SIN-LHR to 3x daily.
 
TN486
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:15 am

Is it me? I have just read the OP's referenced article and my take on it is that BA will not be flying Kangaroo Route in the medium term (read Mar 2013).

Quoting runway23 (Reply 16):
With the loss of capacity on SIN-LHR, I would personally be somewhat surprised to see SIN-SYD continue on BA metal, if BA does not increase SIN-LHR to 3x daily.

  
Kangaroo Route will still exist, but with "Kangaroos of different colours".

[Edited 2012-09-18 03:19:34]
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
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FlyCaledonian
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:52 am

It's difficult to be committed to the whole Australian market if you just operate one flight a day LHR-SIN-SYD. BA will need to find a pertner to serve the other state capitals through an Asian port, whether that is CX through HKG or MH through KUL. I'm sure BA will keep QF codeshares on key flights into Australia from MEL, SYD, BNE, ADL and PER, but it needs a partner in Asia now that the deal with QF is coming to an end.
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skipness1E
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:43 am

BA is now only really serving Sydney, on a point to point basis. Europe - DXB - non Sydney Australian city is much easier with Emirates. The connecting traffic is being diluted as the BA option is more hassle and longer, it depends if there's enough traffic on P2P to make it work with a B744. If they were serious then we might see MEL return, if not, I doubt SYD will be long for the route map.
 
runway23
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:02 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 18):
It's difficult to be committed to the whole Australian market if you just operate one flight a day LHR-SIN-SYD. BA will need to find a pertner to serve the other state capitals through an Asian port, whether that is CX through HKG or MH through KUL. I'm sure BA will keep QF codeshares on key flights into Australia from MEL, SYD, BNE, ADL and PER, but it needs a partner in Asia now that the deal with QF is coming to an end.

That partner could still easily be a codeshare on SIN-SYD with QF. Just like it could be a mix of QF, MH and CX.

That said, running a daily flight from SIN to SYD seems to currently be unprofitable or marginally profitable, with QF.

Take away QF and BA now have to set-up their marketing in SYD, brand their own product. Can no longer look after QF for selling their flights.

It seems like a lot of trouble for a single daily operation. A codeshare on the otherhand costs virtually nothing and is added profit.

However, who knows what will happen. Serving Australia still has a lot of prestige to it and axing SYD would mean giving VS a few minutes of fame in the news. Branson could then once again bash BA for not doing a good job and all the other bs he likes to spread.

Difficult decisions for BA.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:40 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
If they were serious then we might see MEL return, if not, I doubt SYD will be long for the route map.

I would love to see them back here in MEL, but that will not happen. They brought back MEL a second time with the LHR/SIN/MEL flight but dropped MEL again and just ran the 2 flights a day to SYD while QF picked up the BA pax from Singapore for the rest of Australia. BA has a very long history with SYD. If in the future BA uses MH for the rest of Australia does that mean that BA will start serving KUL again?
 
jfk777
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 21):
I would love to see them back here in MEL, but that will not happen. They brought back MEL a second time with the LHR/SIN/MEL flight but dropped MEL again and just ran the 2 flights a day to SYD while QF picked up the BA pax from Singapore for the rest of Australia. BA has a very long history with SYD. If in the future BA uses MH for the rest of Australia does that mean that BA will start serving KUL again?

When OneWorld welcomes Malaysia Air, BA will probably fly to KL just for the connections to Australia. KL would offer BA what Qantas in SIN offers them now. BA could always continue to connect with QF in SIN or Cathay in HKG. While the loss of the formal Qantas arrangement stings for BA it affords it up options for its Australian connections. In one way BA has a very nice problem with all these choices.
 
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vhtje
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:21 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
There can be plenty of reasons to not want to fly through DXB. Maybe he doesn't want to support EK and Dubai with their huge expansion that has hurt local airlines.

Partially, yes.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 15):
Possibly the reason to not fly via DXB... Must admit I haven't been a big fan of the rapid expansion until QF jumped into bed with EK

I don't want to book a QF ticket and end up on a EK plane. I fly EK to India for business once or twice a year as their connections to India are better than BA's. However, I find the experience inconsistent, both from a service perspective and hardware perspective. Am I going to get a flat bed on this flight or a cramped recliner? I never know until I am on board. At least with BA I know what I am going to get.

I find the interiors of EK aircraft to be of extremely questionable taste, but I accept that this is purely subjective. I can say, however, with 100% certainty that for me, the thought of staring at all that faux wood and gold for 22 hours straight makes my stomach churn.

I don't enjoy Dubai airport particularly. It can be a long, long walk from the lounge to the gate. The lounge offers no short-term stowage for cabin luggage. Niggles? Certainly, but when it's my money I'm spending the sum of these mean I'll choose to spend it elsewhere.
 
mutu
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:50 pm

Yes I think BA could make this a winning startegy actually with a bit of careful thought.

Firstly remember it is ONLY the JBA being scrapped. As fellow OW members BA and QF will I am sure continue to codehsare on cerrain routes at either end of the kangeroo (EK has what 23 european destinations ex DXB so BA will still be as (in)convenient as EK for some ultimate european routings)

So you can fly to SYD via SIN with BA and on with QF
You could fly to SYD and elsewhere via KUL on MAS (perhaps even on BA metal to KUL)
You can fly to HKG with BA and on to Oz and NZ with CX
You can fly to NRT with BA and on with JL to OZ and NZ

The variety of options is attactive

And dont dismiss the DXB routing proving less than popular for some....For the Brits DXB has been largely done, its old news, for the aussies its a new horizon for a stop over but not much stimulus and once enough people get jailed for kissing or holding hands in public, the attraction wears off (I sort of jest but actually of course young people are arrested regularly for such behaviour that it isnt entirely a joke _ and I am a fan of DXB and respect local customs wherever I go).

So I suspect the SIN/SYD routing will continue to do at least OK
 
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EK413
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting vhtje (Reply 23):

From my understanding EKs product are not consistent due to the aggressive growth... Quantity versus quality you could say...

Quoting mutu (Reply 24):
Firstly remember it is ONLY the JBA being scrapped.

JSA not JBA... Joint Service Agreement  
Quoting mutu (Reply 24):
EK has what 23 european destinations ex DXB

33 European cities...

Quoting mutu (Reply 24):
And dont dismiss the DXB routing proving less than popular for some....For the Brits DXB has been largely done, its old news, for the aussies its a new horizon for a stop over but not much stimulus and once enough people get jailed for kissing or holding hands in public, the attraction wears off (I sort of jest but actually of course young people are arrested regularly for such behaviour that it isnt entirely a joke _ and I am a fan of DXB and respect local customs wherever I go).

This is the downside to DXB... Cosmopolitan city of the 21st century and not adapting to the western way of living as far as cultures are concerned...

EK413
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kaitak744
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):

CX 744s are done. The future at CX is the 77W in the near term and the A350-1000 in the longer term.

Wow there.... not so fast.

CX 744s are not done. They still have roughly 20 of them, and they are in the process of upgrading the cabins. There will be something larger than the 777-300ER to replace them, CX just hasn't decided yet.
 
cedars747
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:19 pm

What a good news.The Kangaroo route is a myth and should never end.
By the way I guess BEY was a stop in that route !?
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
bastew
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:28 pm

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 4):
Playing devil's advocate and reading between the lines... sure, BA is commited to the Australian market and will continue to fly there, but does that necessarily mean using their own metal?

I was thinking exactly the same thing ETA.
 
RJA321
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:00 pm

I don't understand why some people here are displaying subtle hostility towards EK and DXB. Why should it be EK's fault if national airlines in Europe are suffering because they can't keep up with the competition? Also, if someone is bothered by EK's faux gold and wood then simply use another airline.

And regarding this comment:

"This is the downside to DXB... Cosmopolitan city of the 21st century and not adapting to the western way of living as far as cultures are concerned..."

Do you or have you ever lived in Dubai? If you have/do then surely you're not going out enough. If you are basing this comment on your visits/media etc. just because UAE has a 'ban' on these 'western' ways of living does not make Dubai any less worldly or less attractive. Why should Dubai 'adapt' to the western way of living, and who is to say the 'western' way of living is the 'right' way of living or what non-western cultures should strive to adopt. I cannot even begin to wrap my head around the ignorance displayed in this comment.

In relation to the issue at hand, I agree with those who said that BA won't last in the Kangaroo Route in the long run, especially if the EK-QF marriage turns out to be very successful.
Hurry up, before we all come to our senses!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:36 pm

DXB has adapted to 'Western Expectations' better than the regional (including India) competition. I suspect they will continue to adapt.

For LHR-SYD, there will be demand. The issue is that so much of the future growth will be European secondary cities. I have yet to see a BA strategy for that market. QF/EK have one. What will BA (and LH/SQ) do different?

Quoting EK413 (Reply 25):
33 European cities...

Nitpick, 33 destinations. LGW and LHR are one city.  

But soon there will be more. Better feed on the Australia side will help EK on the European side. Virtuous circle.  
Quoting RJA321 (Reply 29):
Why should it be EK's fault if national airlines in Europe are suffering because they can't keep up with the competition?

Because EK sends gift baskets to the NIMBYs whenever they block hub airport expansion.   

Obviously just a joke...  

I've posted many a time how EK's growth (as well as QR/EY) was enabled by lack of expansion in Europe and India. Now DXB is established.

Quoting RJA321 (Reply 29):
agree with those who said that BA won't last in the Kangaroo Route in the long run, especially if the EK-QF marriage turns out to be very successful.

I think the issue is there is just too much competition on the Kangaroo route. I lost track of how many airlines are available to choose from. QF/EK is one piece of a many piece competitive puzzle.

Lightsaber
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seabosdca
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:45 pm

Quoting kaitak744 (Reply 26):
CX 744s are not done. They still have roughly 20 of them, and they are in the process of upgrading the cabins. There will be something larger than the 777-300ER to replace them, CX just hasn't decided yet.

A bit OT, but I'm not convinced of this in the current economic environment, especially after the latest 77W order by CX. I think unless there is an unforeseen boom we will see all the 744s replaced one-for-one by 77Ws. CX has now kicked the VLA can down the road for three straight years.

In any case, if they are going to take over the long-haul service to Australia from BA, I think they will use their newest and most premium equipment -- that is to say, the 77W.
 
n729pa
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:07 pm

You can also book QF LHR-SYD via JFK (BA LHR-JFK) then JFK-SYD also connects to MEL/BNE too in LAX if you so want.

Sometimes the fares a bit higher sometimes a bit less than the traditional route.....I'm interested to know if anyone has done this route and how was it? I've only ever done the SIN/HKG stops to/from Australia and generally haven't had much jet lag either way (I can sleep on a plane which helps). I too want to a book a QF flight and don't particularly want an EK flight.....otherwise I would be flying EK in the first place. So I'm looking into a JFK routing for my trip next year as something different, but would be interested to know of any experiences good/bad etc....any thoughts/info much appreciated. Thanks
 
cambridgeflyer1
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:07 pm

I must agree with 'vhtje'. Flying through SIN is far less hassle than DXB, plus T3 in DXB is over crowded as it is. Imagine when theres 'X' amount more Qantas heavies coming in.
 
VC10DC10
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting RJA321 (Reply 29):
just because UAE has a 'ban' on these 'western' ways of living does not make Dubai any less worldly or less attractive.

This:

Quoting mutu (Reply 24):
people get jailed for kissing or holding hands in public

It does, in fact, make Dubai much less attractive to me.
 
RJA321
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:13 pm

Quoting VC10DC10 (Reply 34):
It does, in fact, make Dubai much less attractive to me.

If your concern is whether or not you will be allowed to hold hands and kiss in public when visiting other cultures, then clearly you are not traveling to such places for the right reasons. Also, how often do you see people kissing in public - in malls, restaurants etc. - in other 'western' places? Not very often. People are just making a big deal out of it because UAE has explicitly banned this. Banned or not, people themselves should avoid doing so in public anyway out of respect to the culture and country that is hosting them, after all isn't that what makes people 'culturally aware', well-traveled world citizens.

This seems to be going off topic, but I believe people shouldn't necessarily believe everything they are told about other cultures and place unknown to them, the only way to make a sound judgment is to experience the place yourself.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
I think the issue is there is just too much competition on the Kangaroo route. I lost track of how many airlines are available to choose from. QF/EK is one piece of a many piece competitive puzzle.

  
Hurry up, before we all come to our senses!
 
gilesdavies
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Just an idea, but could BA add on extension to the LHR-SYD route and for them to fly on to Auckland?

Just wondering if that would enable BA to fill a 747 up more, and not been so reliant on just passengers flying London to Sydney.

It could work, as I think AKL is only about a 50 minute onward journey from SYD. It gives passengers a choice over Air NZ which dominates LHR-AKL and would enable them not have to connect at the likes of DXB, SIN, HKG or SYD and just remain on the same aircraft.
 
Oykie
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:57 pm

I know it will not happen, but it would have been impressive if BA bought the 77L now to be able to fly nonstop. They may do when the eventually gets the 777-8LRX or A350-900R, and it is in my opinion the only way to get back on top of the UK-AUS market for BA.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:08 pm

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 36):
I think AKL is only about a 50 minute onward journey from SYD

Unfortunately not... it's 3 hours east bound and 3.5 westbound.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 36):
but could BA add on extension to the LHR-SYD route and for them to fly on to Auckland?

I guess it is theoretically possible, after all EK is 2 stops to AKL and 3 to CHC. Nonetheless I'm not sure that it would be worth it. If we assume that the majority of passengers get off in SYD then they're going to need some Trans Tasman traffic to fill the aircraft. Given that they would be up against NZ, QF, DJ and EK - all of whom are established players on the route - then that traffic would mostly be cost conscious and low yielding. LA and AR charge peanuts to get people to fly them from SYD to AKL. Therefore I'm not convinced that it would be a profitable proposition.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
fcogafa
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Several people I have discussed DXB-OZ with are put off by the 16 odd hour second flight. I think many prefer to get the longest leg over with first, I know I do.
 
spud757
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:28 pm

Would be good to see BA work closely with MH at KUL to handle the kangaroo connections. Whether this is on BA metal to KUL who knows. Why not turn SIN into a destination rather than a stop off to SYD. Do SYD and other Australian / NZ via KUL on a similar JSA.
Isn't HKG too further north than current SIN or potential KUL hub to make CX partnership on kangaroo routes attractive in terms of distance?
 
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EK413
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting RJA321 (Reply 29):
Do you or have you ever lived in Dubai? If you have/do then surely you're not going out enough. If you are basing this comment on your visits

I wouldn't have made the comments if I didn't have first hand experience in DXB...

Quoting RJA321 (Reply 29):
Why should Dubai 'adapt' to the western way of living

If the UAE wanna be a far more attractive holiday destination...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
DXB has adapted to 'Western Expectations' better than the regional (including India) competition. I suspect they will continue to adapt.

Sexual relationships outside of marriage are illegal... The UAE has a zero-tolerance policy towards drinking and
driving... Bouncing a cheque is illegal... Holding hands for married couples is tolerated but kissing and hugging are considered offences against public decency... & the list goes on and on...

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
Nitpick, 33 destinations. LGW and LHR are one city.

Now your really nitpicking technically LGW and LHR are part of the UK not Europe  
Quoting RJA321 (Reply 35):
This seems to be going off topic, but I believe people shouldn't necessarily believe everything they are told about other cultures and place unknown to them, the only way to make a sound judgment is to experience the place yourself.

It certainly has gone off topic and just like to add it won't stop me from transiting via DXB...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:09 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 11):
Quoting vhtje (Reply 8):
I know we certainly won't ever go to SYD via DXB. Certainly not as a first choice, anyway.

No idea what's the issue flying via DXB? The routing is shorter than flying via SIN...
Quoting EK413 (Reply 15):
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 12):
Not true. SYD-LHR non-stop is 9188nm, SYD-SIN-LHR is 9274nm and SYD-DXB-LHR 9473nm.

Probably a direct route would be shorter but your right with the DXB route adding an extra 199nm...

Comparison of nonstop LHR-SYD with one-stop connecting routings via Asia/Gulf points (shortest to longest). These assume great circle mileage. Actual mileage flown is always longer due to ATC restrictions etc. On such a long route the differences are insignificant in terms of travel time. It depends much more on the connecting time.

LHR-SYD nonstop - 9188 nm

LHR-HKG-SYD 9189 nm
LHR-BKK-SYD 9228 nm
LHR-PVG-SYD 9232 nm
LHR-PEK-SYD 9238 nm
LHR-SIN-SYD 9274 nm
LHR-KUL-SYD 9282 nm
LHR-ICN-SYD 9284 nm
LHR-NRT-SYD 9402 nm
LHR-DXB-SYD 9473 nm
LHR-AUH-SYD 9492 nm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 40):
Isn't HKG too further north than current SIN or potential KUL hub to make CX partnership on kangaroo routes attractive in terms of distance?

Not correct. In fact LHR-HKG-SYD is the shortest one-stop connection, only 1 NM further than nonstop. See above.
 
qf002
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:13 am

Obviously BA is concerned about being left behind after QF has moved to DXB. The media here has been using words like 'dumped' to describe BA's position in all of this, so it's not surprising that they are trying to prevent people from writing them off/assuming that they will no longer operate.

My bet is that BA will keep flying to Australia until at least the end of the summer 2013 schedule, perhaps extending through the winter schedule as well (given that that's the busiest/most profitable period in this market). If it doesn't work out then I imagine they will drop out in early 2014, which gives them plenty of time to set up a new partnership.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 36):

I think a MEL tag (similar to UA) would be more likely than AKL. QF is still a OW partner with excellent coverage of NZ -- BA will just continue to send their passengers onto their flights.

It's also easy to forget that AKL is actually a very small city/market. Even with strong ties to the UK, I think BA would be doing very well to fly there again in the fly there again (incidentally, does anyone know if BA has US-NZ rights? Something like LHR-DFW-AKL would be crazy awesome IMO).

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 39):

Regardless of whether you fly through SIN or DXB, in one direction the long leg will be first, and in the other it will be second.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:50 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 43):
incidentally, does anyone know if BA has US-NZ rights? Something like LHR-DFW-AKL would be crazy awesome IMO)

yes it does, and it also has US-Australia rights! haven't been used in a very long time but it was an old BOAC route and until NZ pulled out of AKL in favour of using the QF 744 LAX-AKL it flew its own metal down. I believe BA's australian rights are ex SFO though. That was the main US entry point on the west coast back in the day.
 
seansasLCY
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 41):
Now your really nitpicking technically LGW and LHR are part of the UK not Europe

I'm very Eurosceptic but I can safely say the UK is part of Europe.

I think this could be a good move for BA. I don't understand why BA don't sell Australia with its partners. It would allow a passenger travelling LHR - SYD to choose whether to stopover in Tokyo, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and even Los Angeles or Dallas. (I've included QF as I'd imagine they can still codeshare). This would give passengers a large amount of choice.
 
thegeek
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 43):
Something like LHR-DFW-AKL would be crazy awesome IMO

I think that DFW-AKL would be a great route, if you look at the success of SYD-DFW! The question is would anything prevent AA from flying it after it proves successful. JQ feed would probably need to be sorted at the AKL end.
 
bastew
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:14 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 43):
I think a MEL tag (similar to UA) would be more likely than AKL. QF is still a OW partner with excellent coverage of NZ -- BA will just continue to send their passengers onto their flights.

We used to do a BNE tag many years ago and our pax figures SYD-BNE-SYD were often in the double digits on a jumbo.....and this was before the likes of EK/EY started flying to OZ. Without any domestic traffic rights I think a SYD-MEL tag would likely result in the same.
 
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EK413
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:36 am

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 45):
I'm very Eurosceptic but I can safely say the UK is part of Europe.

Take it you don't catch onto sarcasm very well...

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 42):
LHR-SYD nonstop - 9188 nm

LHR-HKG-SYD 9189 nm

Interesting to see the HKG sector is by far the shortest by 1nm opposed to a direct LHR-SYD sector...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
weebie
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RE: BA Says It Won't Kill The Kangaroo Route

Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:50 am

BA will never cut Sydney. It's Like QF flying to NY. BA can't cut a route to a city which is essentially it's greatest achievement in the monarchy.