JU068
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Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:14 am

Good morning.


More bad press for Ryanair this time originating in the Balkans. A Ryanair flights from Rijeka to Stockholm Skavsta was cancelled due to strong winds. The problem occured when the flight departed two hours later without any passengers which made sense since they did not inform the passengers.

Ryanair did not provide alternatives to the passengers leaving them on their own to find their way home; this was further complicated by the fact that there is no internet connection at the airport. Some passengers had to spend up to €1,000 to get home and Ryanair is refusing to refund their travel expenses.
The Swedish Consumer Agency, Konsumentverket, has slammed Ryanair for its conduct last Friday. It says the airline was required to offer help with finding passengers alternative transport and provide them with food and accommodation.


Now, I am no expert but if the flight was cancelled wasn't Ryanair's duty under European Union law to find an alternative way home for these passengers?

For those interested you can read the full article here:

http://exyuaviation.blogspot.com/

JU068
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:22 am

Quoting ju068 (Thread starter):
Now, I am no expert but if the flight was cancelled wasn't Ryanair's duty under European Union law to find an alternative way home for these passengers?

Croatia is no EU member.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:25 am

Don't know the laws and whether Ryansir abides by them but when I was travelling them and it looked like our flight was to be cancelled they just kept saying "you'll be refunded for your ticket" which I had bought 9 months previously for £35 - that wouldn't of been much use in trying to get back to the UK at such short notice.........
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:26 am

As I always say ¨pay peanuts, get monkeys¨

Quoting ju068 (Thread starter):
Now, I am no expert but if the flight was cancelled wasn't Ryanair's duty under European Union law to find an alternative way home for these passengers?

Yes. but obviously they (FR) will alegate the flight was delayed/cancelled due to weather related issues and therefore not their fault.

But I don´t know how much this rule covers.

MIAspotter.
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JU068
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:28 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):

Doesn't matter, they are going to become a member in July 2013. Also if these rules apply in Serbia, which is nowhere close to being an EU member, then I do not see why they would not apply in Craotia.
 
LOWS
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:29 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
Croatia is no EU member.

The EU Regulations apply to any flight operating within, or with an origin or destination within the EU.

Quote:
You are also entitled to identical compensation to that offered when you are denied boarding, unless you were informed of the cancellation at least 14 days before the flight, or you were rerouted close to your original times, or if the airline can prove that the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances. In addition the airline must offer you the choice between:
1. reimbursement of your ticket within seven days;
2. re-routing to your final destination under similar conditions;
3. and if necessary, care (phone call, refreshments, food, accommodation, transportation to the accommodation).
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/passen...rights/en/07-air-cancellation.html
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:30 am

Sweden is a EU member and that is the place where the ticketes were bought.

With your argument, any carrier could abandon passengers in Cochabamba or Sydney and tell them to see how they get back home.

The carrier is responsible in such circumstances , simple as that. Thje problem with FR is, that they seem to have a legal adress in ireland only, they cannot be reached n any other country they serve. The 180 people from this flight should unite and share the cost for the law suit in Ireland.
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LOWS
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:32 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
The carrier is responsible in such circumstances , simple as that. Thje problem with FR is, that they seem to have a legal adress in ireland only, they cannot be reached n any other country they serve. The 180 people from this flight should unite and share the cost for the law suit in Ireland.

They should be able to find redress through the Swedish consumer protection agency that is responsible for these complaints in Sweden.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:33 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 1):
Croatia is no EU member.

The protection accorded to passengers departing from OR to an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.

departing from an EU member state, or
travelling to an EU member state on an airline based in an EU member state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_261/2004

MIAspotter
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kl911
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:34 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
The 180 people from this flight should unite and share the cost for the law suit in Ireland.

Not if it was weather related and stated in the conditions of travel which everybody accepted. Many airlines use weather as an excuse.
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:39 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):

Well the plane was already there so they could have delayed the flight until the weather calmed. I guess it was easier to cancel it since like that they would not need to provide the passengers with refreshments.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:53 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):
Not if it was weather related and stated in the conditions of travel which everybody accepted. Many airlines use weather as an excuse.

and many of them use the same excuse to jump holding queues and declare emergency landings...


I will for once agree with MOL, these passengers were stupid to book Ryanair in the first place... They got what they paid for!
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 9):
Not if it was weather related and stated in the conditions of travel which everybody accepted. Many airlines use weather as an excuse.

they will not be compensated, that's correct. But FR is still responsible to fulfill their part of the contract and that is, getting the passengers back home safely. What FR did here is simply a breach of contract. Period.

Regardless what their fine print on 40 pages might say. Illegal conditions of contract are nil and void.

[Edited 2012-09-18 01:28:28]
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AF185
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:19 am

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 11):
I will for once agree with MOL, these passengers were stupid to book Ryanair in the first place... They got what they paid for!

When I fly FR, I know what to expect in terms of service and baggage policy, as you said "i know what I paid for". But I certainly do not expect to be stranded in an airport for whatever reasons without being advised/compensated with a minimum of respect that should be relevant for any carrier...including low costs.

Flying low cost does not mean being treated like animals..
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:34 am

Quoting AF185 (Reply 13):
Flying low cost does not mean being treated like animals..

Clearly it does if you go with FR. You need to keep your fingers crossed for the whole flight there and back as when it goes wrong, they do not give a toss about you....been there, got the T-Shirt and will never fly them again, no matter how much more it costs to go out of the way.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:42 am

Quoting AF185 (Reply 13):
Flying low cost does not mean being treated like animals..

With Ryanair yes. It has been proven millions of times in the past... and it will happen all over again...

The fact that the flight left empty to Stockholm 2 hours laters says a lot about how much Ryanair cares about you or your customer...

I am definitely not flying them. And I prefer giving my money to other airlines that treat me decenty and that treat their personnel decently which we always tend to forget...

Ryanair has indeed lowered the cost of flying in Europe but it certainly lowered the quality of service and lowered the standard of living of all cabin crews around Europe...
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
smws
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Now, while I'm all for a good Ryanair bashing, there are a few pesky things such as facts, or lack of them to be more precise, which bothers me about this cancellation. Either Ryanair screwed things up more that is apparent on first glance (mainly, violating their own terms & conditions), or a frustrated customer is making things up. Currently I'm leaning towards the latter, as there are no other sources for this news item anywhere else. But I'd still wait for more facts and sources to even consider this is anything noteworthy.

I'll also just paste the Ryanair terms & conditions from their website. According to these, the cancellation & following actions shouldn't have been more than a slight nuisance for the passengers.

Quote:
9.2 CANCELLATION AND DELAYS

9.2.1 Except as otherwise provided by the Convention or Regulation (EC) No. 261/2004, if we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to schedule or cease to operate a route, we shall, at your option, either:

9.2.1.1 carry you at the earliest opportunity on another of our scheduled services on which space is available between the same routing points or, alternatively and exceptionally, and subject to specific agreement with you and to the exclusion of any other obligation, arrange for you to travel on one or more of our scheduled flights without making any additional charge either (i) via another airport served by us to your destination airport or (ii) from an alternate airport served by us to your destination airport or (iii) from your airport of origin to an alternate airport served by us within the same country as your original destination or (iv) from an alternate airport served by us to an alternate destination airport within the same country as your original destination; or

9.2.1.2 carry you on the same route to your final destination at a later date at your convenience subject to seat availability; or

9.2.1.3 make a refund in accordance with the provisions of Article 10.2.

9.2.2 If your flight is cancelled or delayed for at least two hours, ask at the check-in counter or boarding gate for the text stating your rights, particularly with regard to compensation and assistance. (click here for the text setting out these rights)
 
smws
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:06 pm

I'll add a bit more information which I was able to dig up:

http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/Ge...ancelled_Rijeka_-_Stockholm_flight

Quote:
Speaking to the Croatian Times, Head of Communications Stephen McNamara said: "Ryanair sincerely apologised to passengers and offered them a switch to the next available flight, re-routing through another Ryanair base or a full refund.
"Ryanair also immediately emailed passengers information to allow them to change their flight free of charge via Manage My Booking, or via our reservation agents," he said.
He added: "Passengers who experienced additional accommodation or meal expenses, as a result of this cancelation, should send copies of all receipts to Ryanair for refund.
"Ryanair flight cancelations are extremely rare, with just 10 out of over 150,000 Ryanair flights cancelled in the last three months," he said.

So basically, Ryanair DID cancel the flight. They also promised to get everyone to their destinations. And they're reimbursing all costs for accommodation and meals.

So, what exactly did they do wrong? Delays, cancellations and missing transfers are extremely common, sadly.

But if Ryanair does it, the bashing commences  
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:34 pm

Quoting smws (Reply 16):
as there are no other sources for this news item anywhere else. But I'd still wait for more facts and sources to even consider this is anything noteworthy.

Here is a Croatian source:
http://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/o...-zracnoj-luci-na-krku-/637457.aspx

And here is a Swedish source:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/resa/flyg/article15456246.ab

In the Croatian one it says that they were left with no choice but to look for their own arrangement. I am sorry but I would rather trust them than Ryanair.
 
smws
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:58 pm

ju068, this is exactly the same information.

I'm just pointing out that there are gaps in the story which make it hard (for at least me) to take it at face value. We are still getting information from just one family, and their information seems to contradict Ryanair. Now, I am convinced that some sort of mis-communication between the passengers, Ryanair and the airport staff occurred.

If the passengers were not informed at the airport about their rights and what to do in these situations, then the blame falls on the airport and indeed on Ryanair by proxy. If the passengers were informed but the package they were offered did not suit their needs and they took off on a long taxi drive, then I can't see how Ryanair is to blame there. Earlier this spring FlyBe cancelled my flight from Stockholm and provided us with accommodation in a hotel and a spot with the earliest flight on the next day. We still took off on our own and flew home the same evening with another carrier. Did not once for a second think to demand reimbursement or go to the media complaining. They fulfilled their obligations in terms of cancellations, we just needed to get back sooner. So we paid the cost.

For some reason this still smells of people not knowing their rights and Ryanair's obligations in such situations. And what do reasonable people do? That's right. Whine to the media.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:00 pm

Nice try, Ryanair. They operate twice weekly from Rijeka to Skavsta, these are the only flights to any destination in the FR network. Assuming that all flights are more or less fully booked the stranded passengers have no choice other than walking.

The conditions of contract restrict carriage to Ryanair. Now, FR cannot handle unless they position an aircraft to Rijeka to pick up the stranded passengers, For them, that would actually be the cheapest option.

FR has done that before, leaving the passnegrs stranded at an airport not making any attempzts to fill their part of the contract.

If FR cannot do it they have to make alternative arrangements, that can be Croation or any other airline. They HAVE to do it. The restriction to FR obliges FR to either send an aircraft or the passengers to make laternate arrangements and bill FR for the cost. A waiting time of several hours has to bee observed and after that pax are free to go on their own at the expense of FR.
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JU068
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting smws (Reply 19):

I think you have your answer below to as why they couldn't accept the deal offered to them, that is to be on the next flight out of there. Ryanair flies only to London from Rijeka (other than Stockholm) and knowing how popular Croatia is among Brits I doubt there were many seats left. I think most people on that flights could simply not wait a few days for the next flight. On top of it all the real question is if there would be enough place for everyone on the following flights.
Yes, it is nice of Ryanair to offer an alternative, but it depends if that alternative is realistic or not.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
 
kaitak
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 7):
They should be able to find redress through the Swedish consumer protection agency that is responsible for these complaints in Sweden.

Does this agency have any "teeth", i.e. can it impose fines or any other punishment on FR; clearly, if what is being alleged is correct, FR needs to have a shot fired across its bows.
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:01 pm

Today at work I heard the European Ombudsman say that Ryanair had contacted them, I just wonder in what context. It is nice to see the airline complain at the office of the Ombudsman when they themselves do not respect European laws and regulations.
 
vegetables2001
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:09 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
Ryanair has indeed lowered the cost of flying in Europe but it certainly lowered the quality of service and lowered the standard of living of all cabin crews around Europe...

Oh please, what utter sentimental rot. Ryanair has done nothing apart from a service, the people of Europe have decided that they prefer Lo-Cost airlines to overpriced full-fare airlines.

The reason cabin crews standard of living has decreased is because it is basically an unskilled job that lots of people are more than willing to do - it's called market forces.
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captainmeeerkat
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 23):
It is nice to see the airline complain at the office of the Ombudsman

They were complaining? Can you tell us what the complaint was please and thanks?
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting smws (Reply 17):
So basically, Ryanair DID cancel the flight. They also promised to get everyone to their destinations. And they're reimbursing all costs for accommodation and meals.

So, what exactly did they do wrong?

Because everybody thinks one family crying in a newspaper is a trustworthy source...

Quoting ju068 (Reply 23):
It is nice to see the airline complain at the office of the Ombudsman when they themselves do not respect European laws and regulations.

What law did they not respect? They promised to get everyone to their destinations via next flight or via another base. And they're reimbursing all costs for accommodation and meals.

You are really full steam bashing again.
 
JU068
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Quoting captainmeeerkat (Reply 25):

Well since they have complained to the Ombudsman it means that they are having a problem with one of the EU institutions.
My guess is that they are having a problem with the grants they receive from regional governments; and since most of these grants come from EU funds... voila.

I will aks for more details tomorrow.
 
kl911
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:18 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
lowered the standard of living of all cabin crews around Europe...

Thats just business. My company moved from Holland to Hungary, so I followed. Standard of living is much lower, but thats life. Btw, having just a fifth of my former wages I need cheap fares to fly every month  

So its basically a circle.
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:38 pm

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 24):
The reason cabin crews standard of living has decreased is because it is basically an unskilled job that lots of people are more than willing to do - it's called market forces.

Unskilled job? are you kidding me? my gf is a CCM at FR and she had to endure a 2 month intensive training (paid for by her of course) and believe me it is quite a lot of information to take into (I´ve read the manual)

So basically all around the world, everyday hundreds and hundreds of people trust their lives to a bunch of unskilled people when they fly (be it any airline)

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DocLightning
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 11):

I will for once agree with MOL, these passengers were stupid to book Ryanair in the first place... They got what they paid for!

No. This is not true, not legally and not ethically.

When a passenger purchases air travel, they purchase air travel. They have a right to expect: 1) habitable conditions (no extremes of temperature, breathable air, water, and serviceable lavatories. 2) humane treatment (no trapping people on a grounded plane for 8 hours) 3) transportation to the destination.

A cheap ticket does not mean that the carrier can simply breach the terms of the contract and fail to provide the contracted service. It also does not mean that the airline can physically torture its customers (trapping people in a metal box with no air circulation on a hot tarmac is one such example). A cheap ticket means to expect no frills, not to expect to be stranded, treated inhumanely, or safety violations.
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jlarsson
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting AF185 (Reply 13):
Flying low cost does not mean being treated like animals..
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
With Ryanair yes. It has been proven millions of times in the past... and it will happen all over again...

And yet, people are stupid enough to fly with them.
The more you fly with them you send th signal that it's ok to be treated like sh*t.
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captainmeeerkat
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:31 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 34):
They did not contact the Ombudsman for this but for another problem.

Thank you, I read it like FR contacted the Ombudsman on this occassion and that the two were related.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 34):
The strange part is that the flight departed empty back to Stockholm roughly two hours later. I wouldn't be surprised in Ryanair conveniently used the weather excuse to cancel the flight in order to avoid giving the passengers refreshments due to a delay.

But surely that is less expensive than having to pay any dues in relation to EU laws? Stephen McNamara has already stated that passengers will be reimbursed for their expenses.
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bennett123
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:32 pm

One other point that remains unclear is this, did FR make the offer when the flight was cancelled or when the s*** hit the fan?.
 
falkerker
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 24):
The reason cabin crews standard of living has decreased is because it is basically an unskilled job that lots of people are more than willing to do - it's called market forces.
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 29):
she had to endure a 2 month intensive training (paid for by her of course) and believe me it is quite a lot of information to take into (I´ve read the manual)

having a 2 month training is still "unskilled". It means anyone can take a very short course and become an FA, it´s not like becoming a physician or engineer (a 5 year-long intensive training, paid by the student, of course)... Since anyone can become an FA then the market is much, much bigger....
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting falkerker (Reply 34):
having a 2 month training is still "unskilled". It means anyone can take a very short course and become an FA, it´s not like becoming a physician or engineer (a 5 year-long intensive training, paid by the student, of course)... Since anyone can become an FA then the market is much, much bigger....

Well it is a 2 month course in order to obtain a skill, and a longer course on other airlines, where you learn a lot of stuff, like dealing with fire, medical emergencies and other skills.

And even before you start the course, you already need to meet a certain criteria (English or other languages, Customer service background, which I consider skills)

Is not like any yobo can just pop in on the interview day and get shoved into the training centre.

MIAspotter.
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brilondon
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:23 pm

Does FR not have to follow the same Passenger Bill of Rights that Europe has or has that gone by the wayside?
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Noris
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:49 pm

When you book a flight on the Ryanair website, does it not state the EU 261 regulation as a mandatory charge or levy?

Rgds.
 
B777LRF
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 29):
a 2 month intensive training


Two months training, however intense, does not mean it's a skilled job. They are being given the absolute legal minimum training, elevating them barely above the level of a McDonald's burger flipper. About the only skill required is the willingness to be shafted by MOL, and worked hard for a pittance of a salary. But if you're "lucky", you may have a picture of yourself in a bathing suit included in a calendar, which of course does nothing but further reduce the image of your average FR biscuit chucker.
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falkerker
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 38):

Exactly what I meant! Thanks!
 
falkerker
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:26 pm

posted twice by mistake, again... having issues with Chrome.

Mods, please delete, sorry.

[Edited 2012-09-18 15:50:41]
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:34 am

When Ryan air is so cheap that they even cant fuel the planes properly which has results in several emergency landings,then its time to look for a alternative.....i cant for the love of god understand how people can get on this aircraft with there families! They fine there passengers 500€ for being stupid,and leave them at there destiny at airports......the only idiots are those who fly with them!
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smws
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:39 am

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 41):

When Ryan air is so cheap that they even cant fuel the planes properly which has results in several emergency landings,then its time to look for a alternative.....i cant for the love of god understand how people can get on this aircraft with there families! They fine there passengers 500€ for being stupid,and leave them at there destiny at airports......the only idiots are those who fly with them

How people can get on their aircraft? First of all - cheap. Second of all - world's 6th largest airline and with 0 fatalities. Most of the crap thrown against Ryanair is utter nonsense and just emotional drivel. But hey, they are an easy target!
 
MIAspotter
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:05 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 38):
Two months training, however intense, does not mean it's a skilled job. They are being given the absolute legal minimum training, elevating them barely above the level of a McDonald's burger flipper.

Next time you board a flight on any airline, I invite you to call a F/A ¨burguer flipper¨ see who´s gonna save your ass in case of an emergency, maybe you and Falkerker are ¨skilled¨ enough to do it yourselves.

MIAspotter.
Nos vamos de Vueling?
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:12 am

Quoting smws (Reply 42):
world's 6th largest airline and with 0 fatalities.

Well,lets hope that the next emergency landing due to lack of fuel,which seems to have been one of there new way to save a dollar or two lately makes it stay that way!
It's not what u do,it's how u do it!
 
B777LRF
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 41):
When Ryan air is so cheap that they even cant fuel the planes properly which has results in several emergency landings,then its time to look for a alternative

I'm sorry, but that statement is nothing but idiotic drivel. Anybody with just the slightest knowledge of aviation will know that a) anything you read in the media about aviation will be full of factual inaccuracies and b) Ryanair are subject to a level of oversight that will not allow to "under-fuel" aircraft.

What Ryanair are doing, just like a lot of other airlines, is flying with the minimum required fuel. Carrying extra fuel costs money, and the days of Captains loading an extra 500kg for the wife and kids are over. What this means is that in 99.999% of cases the flight will make it to destination, but when circumstances collide (poor weather, crap Spanish ATC) then sometimes a diversion will be carried out. And when that happens some bucket and spade passenger will call his or her favourite tabloid, who'll happily print yet another derogatory story about Ryanair.

Let me be clear, I won't fly Ryanair. But the reason for that has nothing to do with safety.

Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 43):
Next time you board a flight on any airline, I invite you to call a F/A ¨burguer flipper¨ see who´s gonna save your ass in case of an emergency, maybe you and Falkerker are ¨skilled¨ enough to do it yourselves.


First of all this is an internet forum, where one can use language that won't be fit for a personal conversation. Secondly, why would I tell a cabin crew member what they already know, namely that the specific training carried out to achieve the position with an airline like Ryanair, does not mean they are "skilled" workers? Thirdly, and this I find the most interesting, you're actually accusing cabin attendants of willful neglect of duties, because something a passenger said might insult them. Seriously, are you that far removed from the realities of operating an airline?

I've been working in aviation for upwards of 25 years, and have the utmost of respect for my colleagues in departments across the industry. And I know that a person who has spent 4 years to become an engineer, or 2 years to become a pilot, or 3 years to get a degree is a skilled worker. But I also know that a guy who's been given a 2 week introduction course to work on the ramp, or a guy who's been given 2 months of training to become a cabin attendant does not fall in the same category. That doesn't mean their jobs are not important, just that they're not skilled workers.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
smws
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:49 am

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 44):
Well,lets hope that the next emergency landing due to lack of fuel,which seems to have been one of there new way to save a dollar or two lately makes it stay that way!

Three Ryanair planes had to make emergency landings (with sufficient fuel still left for 30 mins of flight) due to a bad weather system. I'm not hearing Virgin Atlantic bashing when back in January, two of their flights had to do exactly the same thing.

While we can have a debate on how Ryanair treats its passengers or how moral the terms & conditions are, there haven't been ANY facts that would leave me to even contemplate that Ryanair is unsafe to fly. So why not keep such statements out of the discussion.
 
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aerdingus
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:38 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 38):
They are being given the absolute legal minimum training, elevating them barely above the level of a McDonald's burger flipper.

Hmm, I think McDonalds employees have it a lot easier on the ground if they have to deal with fires & first aid; also are McDonalds employees expected to deal with decompressions, ditching, emergency landings?....I have over 12 years experience in customer service, WHICH IS A SKILL, I can speak fluent English, & basic Spanish, French & German...funny, think they are also skills...sure we learn a lot in a small amount of time, but we are expected to know it,& if you don't, then you are out. This is not exclusive to FR, so why are you bringing it up here? Also, believe me, trying to find places for 189+ bags, including oversized ones which some pax consider "hand luggage", & trying to seat a family of 6 which has just boarded last on a packed plane, takes skill. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself. I can't believe someone would be so condescending about airline staff, in an airline orientated website. I'm not comparing myself to a surgeon or engineer, but I will not let you think I just stand there giving out tea or bloody coffee.

[Edited 2012-09-19 03:41:42]
2016: BHX GLA KIR LCY LGW MUC VIE BA EI FR LH OS A320 A321 ATR 42 ATR 72 B738 E190 E195
 
falkerker
Posts: 163
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:03 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 45):
That doesn't mean their jobs are not important, just that they're not skilled workers.
Quoting aerdingus (Reply 47):
but I will not let you think I just stand there giving out tea or bloody coffee.

It´s certainly not an easy job. Any customer service job requires some degree of patience. What I mean by "unskilled" is (practically) anyone can just show up, take a short course (and yes, 2 months is a short course) and become an FA. The whole discussion started because FAs are getting paid less and less due to that fact. (almost) anyone can become an FA in a very short time and so it is easier for airlines to find people who will accept lower wages. For example, if a hospital wanted to pay less to any specialist, they can´t just admit someone, make them take a 2 month course and voila! That´s the point, since it is certainly easier to become an FA, and more and more people are willing to do so, the "price" so to speak for the airline to hire an FA will become increasingly lower.
 
B777LRF
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RE: Ryanair Abandons Passengers In Rijeka

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting aerdingus (Reply 47):
but I will not let you think I just stand there giving out tea or bloody coffee.

You may wish to go back and read my post again. Did I ever say that's the only function of the job?

An airline cabin attendant is not a skilled job. I know it's an important job, I know the top priority is safety and not handing out tea and coffee, but it's not a skilled job. The very fact that it only requires very little training (compared to a skilled job) means that it is, in relative terms, very easy to recruit and train.

As I said up thread, I have the utmost respect for all my colleagues in all departments of the business, but that doesn't mean that all jobs are skilled jobs. The position of cabin attendant is one of those who is not.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove

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