LAXintl
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SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:12 pm

A while back we heard stories the airline continued to lose money in BKK, but now it appears it will be cutting the route entirely effective with the summer 2013 schedule.

Last CPH-BKK flight operates on April 7th after continual service to the Thai capital since 1949.

Aircraft from the cancelled route will be used to launch SFO next April.

SAS blames the routes leisure orientation and highly competitive market place for the cut.

Story:
http://www.businesstravel.fr/2012091...vol-vers-bangkok-apres-63-ans.html


Interesting to note BKK was SAS first Far-East destination, and SAS was instrumental in the creation of Thai Airways, which even shared the SAS livery for many years.
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stratacruiser
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Presumably they will still code share with fellow *A member TG.

Dave
 
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HELyes
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Not good news for the Nordic passengers, less choices. Good news for the Gulf carries flying to CPH especially. Finnair must be pleased, they still fly 2x daily to BKK in winter season, daily in summer.

[Edited 2012-09-18 10:47:38]
 
EBGflyer
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:48 pm

According to check-in.dk SAS will only seasonally close the route to BKK as traffic to Asia in the summer months are weaker. Instead they will focus on North America in the summer season.

Article in Danish:
http://www.check-in.dk/newselement.cfm?nNewsArticleID=67434
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
LAXintl
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:42 pm

Times are certainly tough in the industry.

I guess with everyone and their brother selling Europe-BKK tickets, a high cost operation like SAS struggles. Look even AF has to juggle its BKK ops and recently LH mentioned it was having issues.

But good timing for Norwegian. They can add a BKK-CPH link also now.
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sweair
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:55 pm

I rather fly Thai from ARN than ARN-CPH-BKK with SAS and the 744s fly a bit faster than the A340s.. SAS has an idiotic routing IMO and probably lose a bit by this too.
 
LondonCity
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:49 pm

The news story appears to have been changed to reflect the fact that SAS is converting a year-round service to a seasonal operation.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...o-axe-bangkok-route-after-63-years

Nevertheless the fact that SAS cannot survive all year round on such a popular route suggests that it cannot compete with its high cost structure. It's up against TG out of Oslo/Stockholm/Copenhagen and, of course, the emerging Gulf airlines who are now tapping the Scandinavian market.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
I guess with everyone and their brother selling Europe-BKK tickets, a high cost operation like SAS struggles. Look even AF has to juggle its BKK ops and recently LH mentioned it was having issues.

AF converted its CDG-BKK service into a leisure route using a high density 77W. Air Berlin axed its TXL-BKK service and now feeds its BKK passengers onto EY at AUH. You are correct about LH which said publicly several months ago that it was reviewing the future of its BKK service.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:01 pm

I was sad to see this announcement as well, but...

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 6):

The news story appears to have been changed to reflect the fact that SAS is converting a year-round service to a seasonal operation.

...this piece of news softens the blow a bit.

I remember reading about the daily 767 that SK operated into BKK back when I used to collect the UA timetables as a kid growing up in the 90's.

It appears that SK operates roughly one third of the market share on CPHBKK while TG controls the other two thirds.
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CRJ900
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:05 pm

Would it help if SAS reconfigures the A343 to, say, 300 seats, 25J and 275Y? The rumour mill in Scandinavia says most J seats are filled with upgrades and ID-travelers anyway to BKK, so why not get more revenue by selling more Y seats?

They would have to dedicate 2-3 aircraft for this, but it might be worth it?
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LAXintl
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:13 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 6):
The news story appears to have been changed to reflect the fact that SAS is converting a year-round service to a seasonal operation.

Thanks for that, but I do wonder if its more meant to simply buy time for SAS to figure out what to do.

I saw a news story that said BKK has been unprofitable for SAS for over 7-years now.


Anyhow here is a bit more detail on the routes poor performance --

"Copenhagen – Bangkok is a route with a decidedly lower share of business travelers compared to other travelers, when seen in comparison with most other destinations. During the summer months in particular, profitability is higher on the North American destinations than on the Bangkok-route," Simon Pauck Hansen, VP Partners & Intercontinental Network with SAS, explains.

http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?coun_code=dk&news_id=11174

Essentially SAS can take that A340 and go do something with it that produces a better return.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
Would it help if SAS reconfigures the A343 to, say, 300 seats, 25J and 275Y?

I'm not sure SAS wants to create a sub-fleet, but the market is indeed a heavily leisure one. I see Air France now uses its 472 seat 77W COI version with mere 14 business class seats to BKK now.
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LondonCity
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
It appears that SK operates roughly one third of the market share on CPHBKK while TG controls the other two thirds.

I presume you are referring to non-stop/direct flight traffic ? I ask, because there are many indirect carriers who tap the Scandinavian market for transfer traffic. Examples include: AF, AY, BA, KL, LH and LX besides Gulf carriers such as EK and QR. Most passengers flying to BKK are on leisure trips so they are happy to change planes if it means a lower price for their ticket.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
The rumour mill in Scandinavia says most J seats are filled with upgrades and ID-travelers anyway to BKK, so why not get more revenue by selling more Y seats?

This is the approach adopted by AF ex-CDG. Before this summer it operated a daily B777-200 service with 35 business and 250 economy seats. But starting last May, AF converted the route into a three times a week service operated by a B77W which is configured with 14 business and a whopping 458 seats in economy class (configured 10-abreast).

It meant the nunmber of business class seats offered by AF on CDG-BKK dropped from 35 a day to 42 a week.
 
kyrone
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):

Would it help if SAS reconfigures the A343 to, say, 300 seats, 25J and 275Y? The rumour mill in Scandinavia says most J seats are filled with upgrades and ID-travelers anyway to BKK, so why not get more revenue by selling more Y seats?

They would have to dedicate 2-3 aircraft for this, but it might be worth it?

That would detract from the flexibility of their long haul fleet if they needed to swap out aircraft due to tech or another issue. And if the A/C was full in Business and Extra, that'd be 40 sum people you'd have to down grade if you did use the BKK aircraft on another route.. which would be a customer service nightmare for many!
 
WROORD
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:41 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
SAS blames the routes leisure orientation and highly competitive market place for the cut.

You mean all those men flying to 'play golf' in BKK do not want to pay premium bucks for their tickets?
I think that part of the problem is that SAS has a mediocre service and cannot compete with Thai, Qatar or Emirates.
 
lawair
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:26 am

Besides the Gulf carrier competition, TG is also gaining some traction with its nonstop ARN/CPH-HKT flights, which I imagine could hurt the SK flight somewhat. It also means TG is adding a couple more flights a week from BKK to CPH/ARN for the return trip.
 
danielkandi
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting WROORD (Reply 12):

Lack of service is a major part of the problem. I always end up talking to older couples flying. More and more are starting to realise that SAS isn't the only carrier in the world. And I mean dumb tourists/1-2yearly asia-flyers with no membership to any alliance. They all say Thai, Turkish and Singapore if we end up talking service. I myself, although not willing to pay 3000GBP for Business Class, am willing to pay for Comfort on KLM, as it is cheap, with little, but enough changes to make you sit better. On SAS, the premium seats are ridiculously overprized, for what they offer. On TK, the food is business standard in Comfort, plus fair prices (don't get started on TK wages being low) SAS premium is sometimes DOUBLE the TK price, with no upsides, besides maybe the smile that most SAS-crew are still able to give, where some TK FA's are like "-.-". Recently ordered 3 longhaulflights to Asia. All on TK. Routing that SAS didn't have or only offered bad codeshares on. Danes are tourist-like, but at least they now know that Singapore and Thai are airlines to go to for service. KLM being in AAL now too, makes it even harder for SAS. I spoke with an SAS worker in AAL, and she said they could see the change Clearly. Alot of longhaul disappearing to AMS.

SAS never having the bloody routes themselves, mean you have to get to Munich or Frankfurt. Munich is ok, but Frankfurt is a nightmare. SAS themselves are to blame. I woulda loved to have lived and flown back in the 70's and 80's to see what SAS was like, before it came to this state they are at now..... Like someone suggested, Norwegian can start doing more sas-hate in future campaigns. A "bye-latehansa" style commercial wouldn't be too arrogant for Mr. Kjos to consider. Especially after looking through their magazine with SAS-group targeted in the graphs for cO2 emissions... "SAS stepped away. We gladly take over!" ...  
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Interesting to note BKK was SAS first Far-East destination, and SAS was instrumental in the creation of Thai Airways, which even shared the SAS livery for many years.

I believe SAS was also the first western European carrier to obtain permission to overfly the Soviet Union on flights from CPH to BKK in 1967 using the DC-8-62 with a stop at Tashkent, Uzbekistan. It was branded the Trans-Asian Express and significantly cut the travel time compared to the traditional multi-stop routes then via the Middle East and India etc.

The flight had a tag-on BKK-SIN. SIN newspaper item below re the inaugural.
http://newspapers.nl.sg/Digitised/Ar...cle/straitstimes19671103.2.34.aspx

[Edited 2012-09-18 17:40:58]

[Edited 2012-09-18 17:42:01]
 
CXfirst
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:50 am

This really tells a lot about SK operations. If they cannot even make BKK profitable, with the huge amount of Scandinavians going to BKK each year (there is a reason DY have this as one of their first intercontinental routes), then there is definitely something wrong at SK.....

-CXfirst
 
sqsfo
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:56 am

I think now ever than before SK, will need the government to step in and limit the number of flights awarded to the Gulf Carriers. The nordic countries have proven to be quite socialistic, lets see how they will deal with foreign air competition
 
LAXintl
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:28 am

Quoting SQSFO (Reply 17):
The nordic countries have proven to be quite socialistic, lets see how they will deal with foreign air competition

Not in aviation policy. Especially Sweden which has been hands off, and openly stated they would not pour money into saving SK.

Ultimately, the problem does not lie with the Gulf carriers - they simply have built a better mouse trap, but with the inefficiency of SK.
If EK was never around, the Asian carriers and some European competitors like TK still would be running circles around a bloated inefficient SK.
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AF185
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16):
This really tells a lot about SK operations. If they cannot even make BKK profitable, with the huge amount of Scandinavians going to BKK each year (there is a reason DY have this as one of their first intercontinental routes), then there is definitely something wrong at SK.....

It might be a sign, but loads and destination popularity don't always result into profitable operations.
AF's planes to BKK were almost always full, but yields due to a highly competitive environment and money oriented customers we very low. In fact, BKK was hardly profitable for AF despite the loads, hence the decision to reduce frequencies.
Moreover was not unusual to find 30-40 company tickets pax per flight, it makes it difficult to make cash out of such a flight.

Therefore, I wouldn't judge SK's overall performance solely on the BKK route cut decision.
 
danielkandi
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:47 am

Well it's quite clear that other airlines, not only KLM, are seeing that SAS is struckling, and therefore tries to capitalise on it. I always wondered, if the combined number of inhabitants in Denmark, Norway and Sweden had something to do with the lack of profit. That all 3-4 nordic countries combined don't have enough business/work-travellers, compared to NL or Germany. They've GOT to make it attractive for foreigners to actually "detour" through Copenhagen. A bit like a detour to Istanbul. It's gotta be worth it. Often go Asia, and the TK stopover is worth it. Plus the lounges in IST are nice. Besides SAS' own problems, there are alot of things in Copenhagen Airport that needs addressing. Seating is bad most of the places outside café's etc... Going longhaul to NYC etc. the C-finger almost always have closed gates. You can walk in there, but often get told off for "breaching safety" or interferring (my a**) I just wanna sit down and relax. . Near impossible. Schipol has a little of the same problem, but if you have loungeaccess its tolerable. And try finding a power-outlet along any wall in CPH, you will play detective till you fly.... Besides that, no really good decent priced places to eat. IF you are willing to pay overprice/danish prices, for a good steak/primecuts of all kinds, M.A.S.H. Restaurant has everything from your typical lunchoffer-steak for 20 odd euro's , and well over 80 euro for other cuts. Besides that, all CPH has to offer is the unique danish hotdog... Not really worth a detour is it ?
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Kiwirob
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:17 am

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 20):
IF you are willing to pay overprice/danish prices, for a good steak/primecuts of all kinds, M.A.S.H. Restaurant has everything from your typical lunchoffer-steak for 20 odd euro's , and well over 80 euro for other cuts.

I've always thought CPH had good food choices at very reasonable prices, certainly better and cheaper than OSL, with more choice than FRA and ARN but with similar prices.
 
SASDC8
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:23 am

Quoting sweair (Reply 5):
I rather fly Thai from ARN than ARN-CPH-BKK with SAS and the 744s fly a bit faster than the A340s.. SAS has an idiotic routing IMO and probably lose a bit by this too

Are you talking financially or from a passenger point of view. From a passenger perspective the routing in excellent with night flights in both directions, but financially it cant't be good to keep the 340 on the ground for 10 hours + in BKK.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 16):
If they cannot even make BKK profitable, with the huge amount of Scandinavians going to BKK each year (there is a reason DY have this as one of their first intercontinental routes

What? BKK is a low yield tourist destination with almost no business travel (perhaps 25-30%) and low cargo volume. SK will return there in the winter season when they can make more money at BKK than on their US flights. AF and LH also cuts capacity to BKK, and in my mind BKK is hard destination to make money on year-round.

That said I am sure that SK will continue to struggle in direct competition with LCC like DY and the Gulf carriers.

Cheers
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BestWestern
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:01 am

With Thailand seen as a risky new business destination due to the instability of the government, many companies are looking elsewhere, and flying elsewhere. What is left is inbound tourism, which is very low yielding. Thai has a strangle hold on this thanks to island connections.

AF, AB and SK have now made major changes to their schedules and LH have highlighted BKK as one of their very worst performing destinations. BA have also dropped their onward service to SYD from BKK, so BKK is really struggling.

The Thai 747s are a risky adventure - some in excellent condition, some very poor indeed.
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:46 am

Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT. It will probably be best if they let TG deal with this route and offer a codeshare. Who knows, maybe the frequency will be increased to CPH now and CPH could even be a candidate for the TG A380 in the future.

Also, didn't SK try ARN - BKK and failed miserably? I think CPH is the only airport it could work from for them but as mentioned above, their aircraft are maybe to J intensive to make a profit.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
EBGflyer
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:21 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24):
Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT. It will probably be best if they let TG deal with this route and offer a codeshare. Who knows, maybe the frequency will be increased to CPH now and CPH could even be a candidate for the TG A380 in the future.

Absolutely not. In that case there would be absolutely no demand for business class. SK does have quite a few connecting pax as well, so I think that would not work at all. HKT bound pax is probably even lower yield than BKK.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24):
Also, didn't SK try ARN - BKK and failed miserably? I think CPH is the only airport it could work from for them but as mentioned above, their aircraft are maybe to J intensive to make a profit.

Yes, only a few years back they flew 3 weekly ARN-BKK. AFAIK it was only seasonal and lasted 1 or 2 seasons.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
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pvjin
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:21 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24):
Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT. It will probably be best if they let TG deal with this route and offer a codeshare. Who knows, maybe the frequency will be increased to CPH now and CPH could even be a candidate for the TG A380 in the future.

Bangkok has way better connections to other popular destinations in Thailand than Phuket has.

I think increasing amount of tourists are going to some other destinations than Phuket as it has become pretty unoriginal place and doesn't have particularly good looking nature either when compared to other nearby places.
"Optimism is the madness of insisting that all is well when we are miserable." - Voltaire
 
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HELyes
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:26 am

Quoting SQSFO (Reply 17):
The nordic countries have proven to be quite socialistic, lets see how they will deal with foreign air competition

The Nordic air space is free for the competition, but the market is relatively small comparing to densely populated Central/Southern-Europe.

Generally speaking, the Nordic countries have managed to combine "socialism" and economic competitiveness. The latest Global Competitiveness Index from WEF ranks Finland (3.) and Sweden (4.) higher than USA (7.). Norway and Denmark are doing well too.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/glance...itiveness-index-wef-091305518.html

[Edited 2012-09-19 04:31:00]
 
MAS777
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:28 pm

News reports in Malaysia suggest that the governments of Sweden and Malaysia are hoping to re-establish direct air links between the two countries..

I expect with this latest news - the chances of seeing SAS at KUL is now virtually nil.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v6/newsgeneral.php?id=695026
 
ohsopc
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 23):
AF, AB and SK have now made major changes to their schedules and LH have highlighted BKK as one of their very worst performing destinations. BA have also dropped their onward service to SYD from BKK, so BKK is really struggling.

I think BKK is really struggling only for European carriers. It seems to me that TG and the Middle East airlines are doing very well at the expense of the European carriers.

For example, while both AF and SK are struggling on their BKK routes, TG has been adding frequency to both routes (CDG 9x weekly - from 7x a few years back, and CPH/ARN - added frequency CPH/ARN-HKT as well as OSL). The Paris route is also going to be one of TG's first A380 routes, so therefore there is obviously demand on this route.
 
LondonCity
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting ohsopc (Reply 29):
It seems to me that TG and the Middle East airlines are doing very well at the expense of the European carriers.

I don't believe TG is doing so well out of LHR. It's using smaller planes than before so it would suggest TG is not finding the same demand as before.

The UK is a tricky market for TG because the Gulf carriers depart from so many airports both in London (LHR + LGW) and the regions. Clearly, it's easier (and possibly cheaper) for a Scottish passenger to take EK from GLA to BKK via DXB than to fly south with BA into LHR and change planes.

It's interesting to note that BKK (from AUH) is EY's busiest route. In 2011, EY flew 500,000 passengers between AUH and BKK. I wonder how many of these passengers started their journeys in Europe ?


http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articl...aims+record+passenger+numbers.html
 
nethkt
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 30):
I don't believe TG is doing so well out of LHR. It's using smaller planes than before so it would suggest TG is not finding the same demand as before.

This is due to the fact that A340-600 cockpit crew were complaining about the limited routing they had.
So B747 cockpit crew get Sydney while A346 cockpit crew get London in return.
This doesn't mean TG is performing better on SYD rather than LHR hence 744 goes SYD and 346 goes LHR.
TG is all about internal political. Still wonder why they are still making millions of profit each year!
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
danielkandi
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):

They are starting to make changes, slowly but surely. Another huge problem is the passport checkpoint when going out of Schengen. If you get there at 10-11 midday where SAS and a few others have longhaul going out, I find it weird when the bordercops know this, that they only put out 2 men doing that job... massive lines.

But then again I haven't been much to ARN or Oslo so I can't make a comparison, other than that I noticed the prices... I completely forgot Café Copenhagen, and the new nordic gourmét place besides MASH, the breakfast at CPH cafe is nice, but i have yet to try the gourmet one.

On a serious note though, the AF rewamp mentioned in another thread, makes me think, that the nordic hospitality is alright, and usually more positive than the AF crew. So it should actually be SAS that did this restructuring of cabin... It would win me over as a FF'er if they did a good job. But I guess the finances aren't there  
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
SAS blames the routes leisure orientation and highly competitive market place for the cut.

Nicely worded and even accurate, since most of the times sex is a leisure activity.

As for the competitive market place, blokes would rather spend their cash once they get there.
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something
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 30):
I don't believe TG is doing so well out of LHR. It's using smaller planes than before so it would suggest TG is not finding the same demand as before.

They're soon bringing the A388 there mate.

Quoting ohsopc (Reply 29):
It seems to me that TG and the Middle East airlines are doing very well at the expense of the European carriers.

I'm glad for Thai then.

Quoting nethkt (Reply 31):
TG is all about internal political.

I have heard a lot of these type of stories. But who knows, maybe that's ironically their secret. They don't focus on the numbers only, have happier staff which reflects in better service and results in happier customers.

On a tangential note.. you say the A340 crew complained about being limited in their rosters. Does Thai have a dedicated A346 crew, or do they also operate the A333 and the old A345?
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Kiwirob
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 32):
Another huge problem is the passport checkpoint when going out of Schengen.

I've never really noticed it as a big problem, I fly through CPH to Russia often.

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 32):
I completely forgot Café Copenhagen, and the new nordic gourmét place besides MASH, the breakfast at CPH cafe is nice, but i have yet to try the gourmet one.

I often eat at the Chinese noddle bar, the foods ok, it's cheap and quick, or the Italian pasta bar beside it, also cheap and quick then head into the SAS lounge for the comfy seats and free drinks. The SAS lounge coud do with a revamp, it's falling behind what other *lounges offer.
 
WROORD
Posts: 667
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:30 am

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 22):
BKK is a low yield tourist destination with almost no business travel (perhaps 25-30%) and low cargo volume

True BKK was business 10-20 years ago, now everyone is going to TPE, KUL or PVG. I have not heard or read of any business opening a branch there.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 24):
Maybe SAS fly to the wrong destination in Thailand. Most Scandinavians holiday in and around Phuket meaning that any flight to BKK will require transfer to HKT

Possibly, however they do not want to be considered as the pure leisure carrier, even though in many respects their service is more like LCC.
 
nethkt
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:43 am

Quoting something (Reply 34):
On a tangential note.. you say the A340 crew complained about being limited in their rosters. Does Thai have a dedicated A346 crew, or do they also operate the A333 and the old A345?

330's cockpit crew stays with 330s and 340's cockpit crew stays with 340-600, 340-500.
Since 340-500s are retired from the fleet, no more LAX, HND, 340 cockpit crew is left with choice of ZRH, SYD, MXP (before LHR goes 346).
And it has been so long that the B747 cockpit crew last had a trip over Australia, so they need to go there!
A great deal is made, 340's cockpit crew gets LHR and B747's get to visit Australia! Great move!!

But well, did I mention anything about load factor? Well, let Sales/Marketing/Resv do their works!!
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
g2scandinavia
Posts: 432
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:39 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 28):
News reports in Malaysia suggest that the governments of Sweden and Malaysia are hoping to re-establish direct air links between the two countries..

I expect with this latest news - the chances of seeing SAS at KUL is now virtually nil.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v6/ne...95026

Don't forget Norwegian. They will probably have KUL on their future short list from ARN.
 
CPHFF
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:19 am

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 14):
On SAS, the premium seats are ridiculously overprized, for what they offer.

You are absolutely correct, Flew Economy Extra on their 343 last year, and I was really disappointed with what I got for the almost double price of a regular Y ticket. Being 6.4" (190cm), legroom is more inportant than seat width. Also, the IFE box on the floow took about 20% of the space in the seat in fron of me. Hard to move my feet around..........
A 70 - 100% premium over Y-class fares, it's a rip-off! I think most passengers are business travelers that are not allowed by their Company to fly Business Class (IMHO)



But, I think it is smart of SK to try another destination if BKK is not profitable. It makes perfekt business sense. I'm sceptical if SFO is the the right choice for US West Coast - CPH. How ever, with such a small fleet of long-haul aircraft, they have to utililise them where they can make the most revenue AND spend the most time in the air = earning money.

Also, I believe that a lot Charter/Holiday packages sold from Sweden/Denmark are booked on Thai, not SK.
Detroit is bankrupt. Don't forget to thank UAW folks!
 
sweair
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:46 am

Kastrup stinks if you dont need to eat or drink, there is nowhere to sit down, I never had that problem on ARN.

I know many swedes hate going via CPH, if there is an option people want to go straight from ARN to their destination.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:32 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 40):
Kastrup stinks if you dont need to eat or drink, there is nowhere to sit down, I never had that problem on ARN.

I know many swedes hate going via CPH, if there is an option people want to go straight from ARN to their destination.

CPH's redeeeming feature is that queuing for security is a lot less than ARN and luggage arrives much faster. I really hate travelling through ARN because it is a place of stress for me. The main security check at Terminal 5 is always undermanned and the queues are ridiculous. Luggage always takes an age (at least 15 minutes) and staff there are very rude.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
danielkandi
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 41):
CPH's redeeeming feature is that queuing for security is a lot less than ARN and luggage arrives much faster. I really hate travelling through ARN because it is a place of stress for me. The main security check at Terminal 5 is always undermanned and the queues are ridiculous. Luggage always takes an age (at least 15 minutes) and staff there are very rude.

Indeed, forgot that positive about CPH... I was once from Singapore back to CPH, the passport control was a mere 5 minutes. After that, took me 2 minutes to enter out and be at the baggage area, and bags were there, mine included, in less than 10 minutes! :O One thing they fail at, is never knowing whether or not an Oddsize item gets on the belt, or comes in by hand. Meaning you scramble around sometimes, i bring snookercuecases (not allowed in cabin) .

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 39):
You are absolutely correct, Flew Economy Extra on their 343 last year, and I was really disappointed with what I got for the almost double price of a regular Y ticket. Being 6.4" (190cm), legroom is more inportant than seat width. Also, the IFE box on the floow took about 20% of the space in the seat in fron of me. Hard to move my feet around..........
A 70 - 100% premium over Y-class fares, it's a rip-off! I think most passengers are business travelers that are not allowed by their Company to fly Business Class (IMHO)

Im glad you agree. Also, on shorthaul, they could at LEAST do like KLM, block the seat next to you for privacy if you actually paid for a business ticket in one of their a320's in row one. But no... I am new to all these forums, but i'm still a good thinker. And like u say, SFO might not be the right choice. On KLM the flight seems full almost. 2-3 business seats in the bubble were not taken. In general, it's really about what people expect NOT to get on the airline. If KLM flew direct from CPH to SFO on a 747, SAS wouldn't win me over. Even though I also hate the 773 with 10 abreast, they still probably wouldn't. Sad fact. They aren't desirable.... ps. I got an upgrade on TK from Mumbai to Istanbul on TK. It was their 333, instead of the old 332 serving it before, meaning I got to try the fladbeds. Found it very comfy tbh.... Slept alot of the 6-7 hr flight. Again showing how great their product is. Besides the odd dodgy pilot of theirs...

***EDIT***

Having said that. I would never take the Norwegian flight instead of SAS to BKK. Poor seats when its released I think. Probably way worse than the LH and SAS new upcoming slimseats, which were surprisingly comfy. But Norwegian to BKK, having to pay for drinks and food ? nahh...

[Edited 2012-09-20 16:41:46]
Flown on : md80, md95, Avro RJ85/100, Q400, Atr42/72, a319/320/321, a332/a333, a343/346, b733 and up, 757, 747, 767 and
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:14 am

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 42):
Having said that. I would never take the Norwegian flight instead of SAS to BKK. Poor seats when its released I think. Probably way worse than the LH and SAS new upcoming slimseats, which were surprisingly comfy. But Norwegian to BKK, having to pay for drinks and food ? nahh...

I wouldn't fly SAS long haul nonstop. Despite free meals you are restricted to just two alcoholic drinks and SAS are just a horrible airline.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
nethkt
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:45 am

Scandinavia to KUL on a premium airlines, seriously? I think you guys are way too overhyped about it.
Government can support airlines bla bla but in the end it's about passenger!
ARN-KUL, CPH-KUL, I don't see that coming at least in the next 10 years.
Not to forget Qatar, Emirates, KLM, Thai, Singapore etc for the already high-competition for this route.

If BKK and SIN can't survive non-stop from Scandinavia, KUL is never going to make it.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
Someone83
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting danielkandi (Reply 42):
Also, on shorthaul, they could at LEAST do like KLM, block the seat next to you for privacy if you actually paid for a business ticket in one of their a320's in row one

SAS do block the middle seats in business class (althopugh noted they don't offer business calss on all routes)

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 43):
Despite free meals you are restricted to just two alcoholic drinks and SAS are just a horrible airline.

Actually it three, although your not restricted, you just have to pay for them.

I do however find it ironic that you won't fly SAS since you have to pay for alcohol after drink nr2 or 3......but you still choose to fly with Ryanair. How many free drinks do you get there?
 
sweair
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:06 am

It seems even most Scandinavians aren't even that thrilled about SAS, only employees seem to still have any faith in them  
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting someone83 (Reply 45):
I do however find it ironic that you won't fly SAS since you have to pay for alcohol after drink nr2 or 3......but you still choose to fly with Ryanair. How many free drinks do you get there?

You get what you pay for with Ryanair and that was due to a last minute trip I had to make to Norway.

With SAS you pay for a premium airline but get LCC service, especially on short haul flights. That doesn't seem fair to me, especially if you are a code share customer from say Lufthansa or SIA.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
Someone83
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RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:47 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 47):
SAS you pay for a premium airline but get LCC service, especially on short haul flights

That is quite debatable, the only difference between SAS and Lufthansa (as an example) on shorthaul is really the buy-on-board...and consider the amount of crap food I have got on Lufthansa recently, is much prefere SK's buy-on-board where i can choose what to order. So then it all comes down to free drinks or not....and that's is not really what diffrentiate LCC-service or not, in my oppinion.
 
EBGflyer
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Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:05 pm

RE: SAS Ends Bangkok - After 63-years

Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:09 am

Quoting someone83 (Reply 48):
So then it all comes down to free drinks or not....and that's is not really what diffrentiate LCC-service or not, in my oppinion.

True. At least SK gives you complimentary water, tea and coffee now. What makes SK great for me is their reliability and high frequencies on many routes. When a LCC establishes what they call a new route, it's usually not an option for me if they fly once or twice weekly.

And when things go wrong, which they are bound to do once in a while, SAS usually handles issues in a professional and not least flexible manner. Would you get rerouted on a different airline if your flight on FR gets heavily delayed? Don't think so. SAS and their partners have a great network and for me it's not worth the inconvenience that I risk taking if I book on a LCC.

[Edited 2012-09-21 04:11:24]

[Edited 2012-09-21 04:11:54]
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG