UnitedTristar
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United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:02 pm

Looks like UA is resuming CLE to BNA/OKC!!

Great news for United fans in CLE!!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...outes-cleveland-hub-203400313.html

Hopefully more to follow!

-m

  
 
airliner371
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:11 pm

They are also ending CLE-GRB.
 
spiritair97
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:13 pm

Nice! Good for UA and BNA/OKC. They better hope that nothing does wrong for the 25 minutes turnaround at BNA.
 
flight152
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:15 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):

They generally have 25 minute turns in every out station. This is nothing new.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:17 pm

SWEET!!! I flew OKC-CLE-CMH back in 2008 and it was insanely more convenient than any of the other connecting hubs I've had to go through to get to central/western Ohio. Too bad I'm moving out of the area before the route's reinstated.
 
RiverCityFlyer
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:23 am

Awesome news for CLE, and United!
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:23 am

I'm actually not shocked by this with the growing natural gas plays in NE Ohio. It is only natural that OKC gets linked with some of the largest natural gas companies based here (Devon, Chesapeake, Continental, etc).
 
toltommy
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:06 am

Well this will be buzzkill for those that think UA will open YNG to serve to gas patch.....
 
Cubsrule
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting flight152 (Reply 3):
They generally have 25 minute turns in every out station. This is nothing new.

UA really needs to cut down on the bridging over outstations with the regional flights, but both CLEBNA flights come from and go to other places in BNA. I - and most people I know - book away from the BNAIAH flights that originate in EWR because they are so apt to have absurd delays.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jasoncrh
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:42 am

??? so you wouldnt fly this flight? All airlines do bridging over outstations. This isnt just a United thing. very weird response to what is good news and growth in two stations.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
UA really needs to cut down on the bridging over outstations with the regional flights, but both CLEBNA flights come from and go to other places in BNA. I - and most people I know - book away from the BNAIAH flights that originate in EWR because they are so apt to have absurd delays.
 
sulley
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:59 am

Excellent. I never understood why BNA was cut.
In thrust we trust!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 9):
so you wouldnt fly this flight?

Probably not. Southwest's schedule is better, especially southbound, and I don't have to deal with all the nonsense that has gone on since the merger.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 9):
This isnt just a United thing.

Some airlines - AA in particular - have made an effort to cut down on bridging at outstations.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jasoncrh
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:52 am

oh well, your choice. I'm sure plenty of people will fly it.

Enjoy WN

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
Probably not. Southwest's schedule is better, especially southbound, and I don't have to deal with all the nonsense that has gone on since the merger.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 9):
This isnt just a United thing.

Some airlines - AA in particular - have made an effort to cut down on bridging at outstations.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:58 am

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 12):
I'm sure plenty of people will fly it.

I had assumed that when they cut it in the first place that they were having trouble competing with WN. Has something changed?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
N766UA
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
They are also ending CLE-GRB.

So much for that parade.
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jasoncrh
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:41 am

The only things I can think of are that Southwest's fares are no longer as cheap as they use to be. In addition, the Cleveland business community has made several very public commitments to support UA in order to keep the hub. those two things I'd imagine would have something to do with it. Plus, Southwest has reduced CLE in the last few years (no more STL/ PHX/ LAS, seasonal only to MCO) while UA/ CO has strengthened in key markets. They're building share and mass in CLE while Southwest has reduced.

Bottom line - different fare and competitive environment than 4-5 years ago.

Time will tell if this works.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):

I had assumed that when they cut it in the first place that they were having trouble competing with WN. Has something changed?
 
masseybrown
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:19 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):
Well this will be buzzkill for those that think UA will open YNG to serve to gas patch.....

That's right ... rub it in.   

By DoT data CLE-OKC O&D traffic has doubled in the last two years from about 30 to 60 pax a day, which doesn't seem enough for a flight. (Maybe Cheaspeake Energy is important enough to UA to demand and get the flight.) Over the same period CLE-BNA O&D has gone from about 230 to 300 a day, while WN has reduced service by one daily flight.

Relying on hub feed for a few more pax just might make these flights work. Still, it looks like UA is adding these flights mostly because of Cleveland the city, not CLE the hub.
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:25 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 16):
By DoT data CLE-OKC O&D traffic has doubled in the last two years from about 30 to 60 pax a day, which doesn't seem enough for a flight. (Maybe Cheaspeake Energy is important enough to UA to demand and get the flight.)

If they fill enough seats on the flight with premium fares that make it profitable, why not? People get too hung up on DOT O&D data around here that they write off routes if numbers aren't at a certain level.
 
masseybrown
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:47 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 17):

I agree, ouboy; but DOT data are all we have to work with. The airlines rarely tell us anything.
 
apodino
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:16 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
They are also ending CLE-GRB.

This is a no brainer since UA has service to ORD from both GRB and ATW already, and most of the places that can be served via CLE can be easily served through ORD.
 
masseybrown
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 19):
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
They are also ending CLE-GRB.

This is a no brainer since UA has service to ORD from both GRB and ATW already, and most of the places that can be served via CLE can be easily served through ORD.

MetJet, operated by Sun Country, is starting Florida service from Green Bay in October. That is what is causing UA's cuts in GRB. The CLE flights had nice numbers; but yields to Florida, a big percentage of the traffic, will be killed by Sun Country.

[Edited 2012-09-21 08:26:45]
 
cle757
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:31 pm

Oh, I thougt they were closing CLE?..why would they add new routes?...where are the CLE haters?
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
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enilria
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 6):
I'm actually not shocked by this with the growing natural gas
Quoting cle757 (Reply 21):

Oh, I thought they were closing CLE?..why would they add new routes?...where are the CLE haters?

I don't think I qualify as a hater, but this does seem inconsistent with the recent trend. I have no idea what is behind it, but I guess we need to see if it continues. I'm not aware of a case where an airline has hacked a hub this much and then built it back up again. I guess anything is possible, but it is more likely just a blip.
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
I don't think I qualify as a hater

Ehhh...you rarely come across as a positive individual to most people.  
Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
I guess anything is possible, but it is more likely just a blip.

The OKC route makes business sense to feed the natural gas interests in that part of Ohio. It also gives OKC a bit more access to the Northeast business markets that are pretty limited right now. We'll see how long this lasts though. I almost think there is a bigger market to the plays near MOT than CLE, but I don't see anyone starting a nonstop OKC-MOT anytime soon.   That is better handled by the existing near daily charters going up there.
 
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enilria
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 23):
The OKC route makes business sense to feed the natural gas interests in that part of Ohio.

Perhaps, but going up against WN with RJs on BNA seems odd. I'm sure there is a reason. I just wonder if it is profit driven or some kind of operational decision.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 23):
Ehhh...you rarely come across as a positive individual to most people.

I think that depends upon who/what is on your fanboy list. Everybody on A.net seems to have at least one aviation company on it.

BTW, show me all the threads entitled "XYZ Airlines Continues Doing Fine Job in All Aspects". LOL

[Edited 2012-09-21 09:29:10]
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:42 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 24):
Perhaps, but going up against WN with RJs on BNA seems odd. I'm sure there is a reason. I just wonder if it is profit driven or some kind of operational decision.

Yeah the BNA route just doesn't make sense to go up against WN unless they have a new corporate contract. I guess they could be trying to divert connecting pax off of another route as well.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 25):
I guess they could be trying to divert connecting pax off of another route as well.

It makes it a lot easier to fly BNA-PKB. Surely, that's important to someone . . . anyone?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AWACSooner
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 25):
Yeah the BNA route just doesn't make sense to go up against WN unless they have a new corporate contract. I guess they could be trying to divert connecting pax off of another route as well.

I wish WN would start OKC-BNA...
 
joeman
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:19 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 21):
Oh, I thougt they were closing CLE?..why would they add new routes?...where are the CLE haters?

Well cle757, lets go thru the typical litany just to get it out of the way:

1) It's just a matter of time

2) All traffic can be easily routed thru IAD and delay prone ORD & EWR

3) Close hubs or reliever hubs to airports such as ORD and EWR make no sense, except in the case of EWR and IAD, because these destinations have an endless amount of O&D and yield despite abundant and increasing competition and even low load factors can always be excused or justified because...um...yield is always there, ya that's it...and there is no such thing as prestigious flights or blending profitable with unprofitable flights at these places to provide a great selection of destinations to make the hubs an overall success...except in the case of such things like AA at ORD on some of there international flights, but hell, their in bankruptcy anyway and we're not talking AA

4) If there were money to be made, UA would surely jump at starting CLE-anywhere rather than embellishing the success of their megahubs by routing such traffic thru them

5) Hubs in metro areas with population below (lets throw a dart) approximately 4 million or more make no sense except in the cases of CLT, DEN, MSP, SLC...because of their important strategic locations

6) Not picking on CLE, same goes for all hubs that fall within the same status and criteria described above and subject to all qualifications and exceptions that exist in the real airline industry
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 21):
Oh, I thougt they were closing CLE?..why would they add new routes?...where are the CLE haters?

They have cut how many routes and frequencies? Adding back two RJ flights isn't anything to boast about. Nobody hates CLE, but the writing is all over the wall and the economics aren't that complicated.
 
joeljack
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:05 pm

This is interesting to me. If I remember when CO added something like 10-15 CLE routes about 5 years ago, the CLE-OMA route was running one of the fullest!! I watched this very close over about 6 months, watched fares and counted seats on the seat maps every day. CO didn't allow any of these routes to produce higher yields because the planes were very full if not 100% sold out over a month in advance in many cases. OMA-CLE fares started at $220 and maxed out about $400 before the plane was 100% full. I didn't expect any CLE routes to return but if OKC returns, I would guess that OMA might too.
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 27):
I wish WN would start OKC-BNA...

You and me both. It would help with getting east on WN. ATL would be nice too.

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 30):
I didn't expect any CLE routes to return but if OKC returns, I would guess that OMA might too.

Consider OKC is directly linked to Chesapeake being one of the primary developers of the Marcellus and Utica shale plays, I don't see the situation being similar to OMA.
 
LOWS
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 23):
I almost think there is a bigger market to the plays near MOT than CLE, but I don't see anyone starting a nonstop OKC-MOT anytime soon.

Great Planes will be starting it soon...

  
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 32):
Great Planes will be starting it soon...

LOL

Oh the concept was decent, execution was terrible. That whole thing could have turned out so much better. On a side note, I think the charters up to MOT are flown with a Dork 328JET from time to time. LOL
 
Beardown91737
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 19):
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 1):
They are also ending CLE-GRB.

This is a no brainer since UA has service to ORD from both GRB and ATW already, and most of the places that can be served via CLE can be easily served through ORD.

Ironic. Without CLE, GRB users will need to connect in Minneapolis, Detroit, or Chicago.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
LOWS
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:50 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 33):
Oh the concept was decent, execution was terrible. That whole thing could have turned out so much better. On a side note, I think the charters up to MOT are flown with a Dork 328JET from time to time. LOL

I assume these are OKC-MOT charters? For Chesapeake et. al?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 15):
The only things I can think of are that Southwest's fares are no longer as cheap as they use to be. In addition, the Cleveland business community has made several very public commitments to support UA in order to keep the hub.

Its smart for them to do this. A hub adds alot of value to the city and jobs
 
N766UA
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
I'm not aware of a case where an airline has hacked a hub this much and then built it back up again. I guess anything is possible, but it is more likely just a blip.

I don't think UA is closing CLE, not yet, but nor do I think they're "building it back up." UA seems to be attempting to "right-size" CLE, and when they're done they'll let it ride for a bit and see if it's profitable. If it is, it'll stay! If not, it'll go.

What hasn't happened is that the hub just goes away because of its location. Unlike what some armchair airliners.net CEOs believe, UAL seems to be doing the cost-concious thing, not the "looks better on a magazine map"…thing.
This Website Censors Me
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 35):
I assume these are OKC-MOT charters? For Chesapeake et. al?

The Bakken operation in North Dakota is mostly going to be by Continental Resources which is also an OKC based company that charters up there.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 20):
MetJet, operated by Sun Country, is starting Florida service from Green Bay in October. That is what is causing UA's cuts in GRB. The CLE flights had nice numbers; but yields to Florida, a big percentage of the traffic, will be killed by Sun Country.

UA is not cutting GRB-CLE because of a fly-by-night public charter that has yet to actually take flight. That is a silly assertation, IMHO.
 
masseybrown
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:38 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 37):
I don't think UA is closing CLE, not yet, but nor do I think they're "building it back up." UA seems to be attempting to "right-size" CLE, and when they're done they'll let it ride for a bit and see if it's profitable. If it is, it'll stay! If not, it'll go.

For now, I think CLE's survival depends on the availability of 50-seat RJ's. Once they're gone, it will be decision time again.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 39):
UA is not cutting GRB-CLE because of a fly-by-night public charter that has yet to actually take flight. That is a silly assertation, IMHO.

Whether MetJet succeeds long term is irrelevant to this winter's schedule (640 seats a week GRB to Florida) and fares ($195 r/t). MetJet is already booking trips and taking money. UA obviously has visibility of their future loads and fares and they have acted preemptively, which is typical of the old CO; they are kissing off the Florida business and running what's left through ORD, a more comprehensive hub. What's silly about that?
 
yeogeo
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:25 pm

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 34):
Ironic. Without CLE, GRB users will need to connect in Minneapolis, Detroit, or Chicago.

Where's the irony in that?

yeo
One great use of words is to hide our thoughts. Voltaire
 
usflyer msp
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 40):
What's silly about that?

Because GRB-CLE-Florida traffic is a miniscule potion of the traffic. The flights don't even connect with each other!

The GRB flights arrive CLE at 10:15 AM and 2:40 PM while the Florida departures are as follows:

TPA - 9:00 AM, before first GRB arrival.
TPA - 5:45 PM (Seasonal), 3 hr connection
RSW - 8:50 AM, before the first GRB arrival
FLL - 8:50 AM, before the first GRB arrival
FLL - 12:00 PM, (seasonal)
MIA - 8:30 AM (seasonal)
PBI - 8:50 AM (seasonal)
MCO - 9:00 AM, before the first GRB arrival
MCO - 3:20 PM

The only possible FL connections from GRB are to MCO and a seasonal FLL flight. No do you see why it is silly to assert that MetJet's Florida flights killed the CLE flights. MetJet is creating new traffic and taking customers that did not fly UA over CLE anyway!
 
N766UA
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 41):
Where's the irony in that?

Haha that's what I'm wondering. ORD having equal or better connecting opportunities and the need to pick another hub without a CLE flight are facts of life, there's no irony there whatsoever. If anything, it's the exact opposite in that it makes complete sense.
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Beardown91737
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:27 am

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 41):
Where's the irony in that?

Lions and Vikings and Bears.. oh my.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
masseybrown
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:18 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 42):
No[w] do you see why it is silly to assert that MetJet's Florida flights killed the CLE flights.

During the peak winter scheduless, the GRB flights would connect in CLE to RSW and FLL in the noon bank and MCO, RSW, and TPA in the 3:45 bank. Bigger picture, ORD will lose connecting pax as well. With traffic losses in two hubs, UA will (always) consolidate the flights in ORD.

No, I don't grant your point.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:01 pm

not to shift focus from OKC/BNA....but I'm a little surprised GRB has flights to only 3 hubs. Is it because ATW is so close by? Would DL ever re-start GRB-ATL?
 
ouboy79
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:48 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 46):
not to shift focus from OKC/BNA....but I'm a little surprised GRB has flights to only 3 hubs. Is it because ATW is so close by? Would DL ever re-start GRB-ATL?

Maybe start a new thread? You'll probably get more responses since no one is going to go to an OKC/BNA thread to talk about GRB. Just a thought?
 
fun2fly
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:17 pm

I would have thought UA would have taken a good look at MEM with the closure of DL's CLE>MEM. DL had 2-3x daily in the past that end in Q1 I believe. You don't have to have many seats filled in on that plane with $600+ RT tix almost every time and that's if you stay 3 nights. Good to see the other two flights added. Regarding GRB, the flight times were very unconvenient for at least the first year and I have to believe that had something to do with the performance. I took it only twice out of about 10 opportunities for that reason.
 
LOWS
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RE: United Set To Resume CLE To BNA/OKC

Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:28 pm

Is it true that UA is putting more mainline into OKC?