CONTACREW
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Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:20 pm

Effective the first week of January the NRT - SIN flight currently flown with sUA NRT based FAs and using a 3-cabin 777 will transition to sCO 777 aircraft to be flown by NTA based FAs as part of the EWR - NRT - EWR trip pairing. Should be available in SHARES 9/22. Of course this is subject to change.
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LAXintl
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:45 pm

Yes that is because LAX-NRT goes to a 787, and there is one fewer pmUA 777 avail at NRT now.

But not much of a change imo trading pmUA for pmCO 777.
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roseflyer
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:53 pm

I am a bit surprised SIN is the route from NRT losing F. I would have thought ICN would lose F since it still has F on the nonstop from SFO which I would assume had the higher yielding traffic. Also F doesn't matter much on a 2 hour route, but SIN is a 6.5 hour flight from NRT which is the same length as many transatlantic flights.

[Edited 2012-09-20 16:55:21]
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CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:57 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Yes that is because LAX-NRT goes to a 787, and there is one fewer pmUA 777 avail at NRT now.

But not much of a change imo trading pmUA for pmCO 777.

If i'm not mistaken, I believe the 3-cabin 777 that's coming off LAX - NRT will go to the IAH - HNL flight.
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Stitch
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:08 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):
If i'm not mistaken, I believe the 3-cabin 777 that's coming off LAX - NRT will go to the IAH - HNL flight.

Why would UA want to put a three-cabin plane on IAH-HNL?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 2):
I am a bit surprised SIN is the route from NRT losing F.

They lose it on NRT, but gain it back to HKG. HKG-SIN returns to the 744 at the end of October for the winter.

SIN has been tricky market for UA last several years. Balancing capacity to get best mix of revenue has led lots of variations.
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aznmadsci
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):
If i'm not mistaken, I believe the 3-cabin 777 that's coming off LAX - NRT will go to the IAH - HNL flight.

I thought this was a domestic 777 with recliner J, Y+, and Y, both in a 2-5-2 configuration.
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CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 6):
I thought this was a domestic 777 with recliner J, Y+, and Y, both in a 2-5-2 configuration.

Nope 3-cabin 12F/49J/197Y.
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:01 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 7):
Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 6):
I thought this was a domestic 777 with recliner J, Y+, and Y, both in a 2-5-2 configuration.

Nope 3-cabin 12F/49J/197Y.

I'm sure that's temporary, until the 772 Hawaii aircraft are converted, including 3 current 772 with the old intl config.
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Stitch
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:16 am

Well if I need to go to HNL, I shall do so from IAH.  
 
WROORD
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:42 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Yes that is because LAX-NRT goes to a 787, and there is one fewer pmUA 777 avail at NRT now.

I thought that LAX-NRT flight continued to TPE. At least that's what I was told last time I flew ORD-TPE. ORD-NRT was on 747-400 and NRT-TPE 777 that came from LAX.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:00 am

Quoting WROORD (Reply 10):
I thought that LAX-NRT flight continued to TPE. At least that's what I was told last time I flew ORD-TPE. ORD-NRT was on 747-400 and NRT-TPE 777 that came from LAX.

It can vary every day. Sometimes a 777 stays and bounces around Asia for a few days even.

Point is once LAX-NRT goes to the 787 in January there is one less 777 US flight feeding equipment into NRT.
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VC10er
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:48 am

I would think that people paying full-fare First Class (and there are people who do and I know some of them) then switch aircraft and NOT get back into a "Global First" seat--for any duration would be, and should be furious! End of story.

IMHO: for people who upgrade to Global First, I think they too deserve Global First all the way. If one has "earned" 6 systemwide upgrades then they have flown a paid 100,000 miles in the prior year. Mileage Plus policy is, and has been, awarding this very valuable prize for decades and when used you should be given all the benefits of being in Global First.

I find the Business First lie flat ala Continental to be a very nice business seat, but it is FAR from being Global First and if the bump you down - your paid First must be bumped down and you ought to get miles added to your account if flying in GF on a systemwide.

Would SQ, BA, CX, do this to their paid first class customers?

This is why I believe UA needs many AC with their sUA, Global First seat, it is the closest thing UA offers that comes close (not equal to but close) to an Asian First experience- and Asia is United's major hunting ground.
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N1120A
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:56 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
But not much of a change imo trading pmUA for pmCO 777.

Actually, its a huge change. No First, inferior CO cabin crews, no Channel 9 (for now), inferior IFE, etc.
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CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:29 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
inferior CO cabin crews

Care to explain why the CO cabin crews are inferior compared to the UA cabin crews?
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N1120A
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:50 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 14):
Care to explain why the CO cabin crews are inferior compared to the UA cabin crews?

Sure. The magical disappearance behind the curtain in the rear galley in Y after giving bare minimum drink services and the woeful lack of service in premium cabins, post-meal. The lack of customer service tools, the superiority complex, the lack of personalized attention to premium passengers, the over-catering of red meat...it goes on.

Then again, perhaps I'm just an "over-entitled" sUA 1K?   
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CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Sure. The magical disappearance behind the curtain in the rear galley in Y after giving bare minimum drink services and the woeful lack of service in premium cabins, post-meal. The lack of customer service tools, the superiority complex, the lack of personalized attention to premium passengers, the over-catering of red meat...it goes on.

Then again, perhaps I'm just an "over-entitled" sUA 1K?   

I hate to break it to you, but I've been on sUA flights where the FAs disappeared behind the galley curtains as well, done minimum cabin services so really a moot point. Also sUA FAs on 3-cabin aircraft are struggling with the premium cabin service because of the staffing levels at sUA. They need to add at least 2-3 extra FA's on the 3-cabin aircraft so that a proper premium cabin service can be done.
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N1120A
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:39 am

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 16):
I hate to break it to you, but I've been on sUA flights where the FAs disappeared behind the galley curtains as well, done minimum cabin services so really a moot point.

I haven't. I've flown 500,000 miles on sUA in the last 4 years.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 16):
Also sUA FAs on 3-cabin aircraft are struggling with the premium cabin service because of the staffing levels at sUA.

They sure don't show that they are "struggling"
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je89_w
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:01 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 16):
I hate to break it to you, but I've been on sUA flights where the FAs disappeared behind the galley curtains as well, done minimum cabin services so really a moot point.

I haven't. I've flown 500,000 miles on sUA in the last 4 years.

I have. But I've also had some fantastic sUA crew. Generally on all US carriers, I've found the cabin service to be quite inconsistent (sometimes good, sometimes bad); really quite pointless arguing over whether sCO or sUA had "better" cabin service.  

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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
I haven't. I've flown 500,000 miles on sUA in the last 4 years.

You've flown half a million miles on UA and NEVER had a bad crew? Wow... please, point to the United that you're flying, because I'd like to fly them, too!
I've flown just 10,000 miles on sUA this year, and find their crews to be 50/50, which is (sadly) about where I find sCO crews to be nowadays.
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N1120A
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting je89_w (Reply 18):
really quite pointless arguing over whether sCO or sUA had "better" cabin service

Not really. There is a big difference in the service quality of the two - especially on domestic, but also on long haul. Massively different customer service cultures.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 19):
You've flown half a million miles on UA and NEVER had a bad crew? Wow... please, point to the United that you're flying, because I'd like to fly them, too!

I've flown nearly a million miles on UA. And no, I haven't had a bad crew.
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Rdh3e
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:52 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 7):
Nope 3-cabin 12F/49J/197Y.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
They sure don't show that they are "struggling"
Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
I've flown nearly a million miles on UA. And no, I haven't had a bad crew.

I've only done about 250k on UA (mostly longhaul) and I'll say I've never had a bad experience in premium, and maybe only 1 bad experience in Y. And by "bad experience" I mean they only came through once for drink service on ORD-HNL which is kind of sad.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:04 pm

We seem to be going somewhat off thread here so back to the topic.

I also like VC10er would be annoyed, not furious, to not have F from NRT to SIN but i assume they have don the numbers and those number dont add up to have the F cabin or they would not do it and certainly if they are doing it, that they charge accordingly for it and/or compensate anyone thats already paid F for the travel period after the change takes place.
 
codc10
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:25 pm

SIN retains Global First service via HKG. If GF is that important for travelers, routing through HKG is a viable option, especially for pax originating at SFO/ORD, despite slightly less convenient operating times.

This is a downgrade for F travelers to SIN originating in SEA/LAX/IAD/HNL. Virtually everywhere else retains 2-stop service to SIN on UA metal with three-cabin service.

I doubt UA is capturing much of the NRT-SIN local market for F, unless UA is pricing the cabin more like J.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):

I haven't. I've flown 500,000 miles on sUA in the last 4 years.

That's very impressive, but you're not the only one. Quite frankly, I just don't see enough of a difference between CO and UA (or AA or DL) crews to be able to make such a sweeping generalization. Maybe I'm just not that perceptive (or ignorant).
 
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Stitch
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 23):
This is a downgrade for F travelers to SIN originating in SEA/LAX/IAD/HNL.

Oh well. Guess I'll just have to take SQ
 
CZ346
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:47 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Sure. The magical disappearance behind the curtain in the rear galley in Y after giving bare minimum drink services and the woeful lack of service in premium cabins, post-meal. The lack of customer service tools, the superiority complex, the lack of personalized attention to premium passengers, the over-catering of red meat...it goes on.

Then again, perhaps I'm just an "over-entitled" sUA 1K?   

I think this is a massive generalization that I typically see from leisure travelers out of ORD, I'm surprised to see it from a 1K... I'm GS. Do I have experiences like you do? Yes - absolutely. Are the ONLY on sCO? Absolutely and positively not. In fact, I typically find sCO crews much more likely to become a newfound friend after some chat in the galleys, to work a little harder to find the right solution, etc.. Not to say EVERY crew is like that, but on a general statement. I actually think one of the worst F/A's on the face of this planet is a sCO F/A (Frank P.) and he has disgusted me to such an extent I have written e-mails to company directors of my experiences - and I'm generally one to be VERY reserved on complaints.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Not really. There is a big difference in the service quality of the two - especially on domestic, but also on long haul. Massively different customer service cultures.

You're right, but IMO it's not necessarily one being good and one being bad. They're different. sCO ain't used to the way sUA operates, and vice versa. Again, if I had to say I like one better, it's sCO time a billion, but that by no means puts sUA down in any way. I just find your comments on how bad sCO is and how great sUA is not only biased but also inexperienced. I think you'd agree if you have the level of experience you claim to have on both...
 
Flaps
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Sure. The magical disappearance behind the curtain in the rear galley in Y after giving bare minimum drink services and the woeful lack of service in premium cabins, post-meal. The lack of customer service tools, the superiority complex, the lack of personalized attention to premium passengers, the over-catering of red meat...it goes on.

Then again, perhaps I'm just an "over-entitled" sUA 1K?   

Well, the tone of that post certainly makes you sound like one.....

  
 
LAXintl
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:57 pm

LOL.

Yes FA service can be hit or miss. I've been a 1K for 15 years soon and no I'm not impressed by UA or CO that matter.
The only thing I would miss is the intra-Asia FA's. I find them much more responsive and service oriented compared to their US collegues.
As far as planes, personally I do like the CO 777 more, its C class is step up compared to UAL.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 23):
This is a downgrade for F travelers to SIN originating in SEA/LAX/IAD/HNL.

LAX is losing F class anyhow when the 787 arrives.

Stay tuned for changes at HNL and SEA..

At the end of the day, this is just UA having to move chess pieces around. Its not the end of the world, and something we will see much more of in the coming years.

Regarding F class in my professional and personal opinion its dead at UA in the long run, and this specific change in SIN is just trying to deal with an ongoing performance challenges the station experiences. Its not the end of the world, just be happy the station still remains on the map.
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codc10
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
LAX is losing F class anyhow when the 787 arrives.

Yes, and I think the point is those cities are probably not major drivers of paid F traffic anyway, especially SIN.

HNL-NRT is a high-volume market which probably does not need three-class service. If UA winds up converting ER non-IPTE 777s to the rumored new 2-cabin configuration, I can see that route getting one.

With NH coming to SEA, UA does not lose much if it drops the route. Should be interesting to see how that shakes out.
 
N505fx
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Sure. The magical disappearance behind the curtain in the rear galley in Y after giving bare minimum drink services and the woeful lack of service in premium cabins, post-meal. The lack of customer service tools, the superiority complex, the lack of personalized attention to premium passengers, the over-catering of red meat...it goes on.


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roseflyer
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:30 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 14):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
inferior CO cabin crews

Care to explain why the CO cabin crews are inferior compared to the UA cabin crews?

The comment certainly sounded like flambeit more than anything else.

There is one disadvantage. On the flights within Asia originating from NRT, the expectation is that EVERY FA speaks Japanese, English and preferably another language since the O/D from NRT-SIN is significantly Japanese speaking. UA has been using NRT based flight attendants (with a few US based crews) on these segments for years and the NRT based crews provide service that appeals more to the Asian market.

With EWR based crews, you will be down to only translators on board rather than having the whole crew be NRT based and speaking Japanese. That's inferior in my opinion. Hopefully they will be able to keep the NRT based crews on this flight.
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CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:52 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 30):
Hopefully they will be able to keep the NRT based crews on this flight.

Not a chance since this route will be flown by an sCO 777 it will be flown with sCO FAs out of the NTA international FA base, and NLS the Newark speaker base. NRT - SIN will be part of the EWR - NRT - EWR trip pairing.
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codc10
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:05 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 31):
Not a chance since this route will be flown by an sCO 777 it will be flown with sCO FAs out of the NTA international FA base, and NLS the Newark speaker base. NRT - SIN will be part of the EWR - NRT - EWR trip pairing.

How many speaker positions are usually in the NRT line? Will NRT-SIN have reduced staffing?
 
CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 32):
How many speaker positions are usually in the NRT line? Will NRT-SIN have reduced staffing?

3 speakers are normally staffed on the EWR - NRT, and no NRT - SIN won't have reduced staffing. I understand this will be a 6 day trip.

Day 1: EWR - NRT
Day 2: NRT Layover
Day 3: NRT - SIN
Day 4: SIN Layover
Day 5: SIN - NRT (NRT Layover)
Day 6: NRT - EWR
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Max Q
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:43 pm

Why is LAX-NRT being downgraded to a 787 anyway ?
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roseflyer
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 31):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 30):
Hopefully they will be able to keep the NRT based crews on this flight.

Not a chance since this route will be flown by an sCO 777 it will be flown with sCO FAs out of the NTA international FA base, and NLS the Newark speaker base. NRT - SIN will be part of the EWR - NRT - EWR trip pairing.

Well I was hoping that one day the crews will integrate.
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hnl-jack
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:20 pm

The UA intra-asia crews based in NRT are fantastic. While I don't always hit 1k I fly NRT-HKG in premium two to three times a year and have done so for over a decade. You can't compare domestic based cabin crews with NRT based crews. I have never had indifferent of bad service on these segments with a NRT based UA crew. I've also flown the segment with CO-Mike crews and in general they are much better than mainline CO, but not even close to the standard of service provided set in F,J or Y by the UA NRT crews.
 
CONTACREW
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:29 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 35):
Well I was hoping that one day the crews will integrate.

One day crews will integrate in the far distance future of course. I don't see sCO FAs and sUA FAs working together anytime soon in the near future.
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CALMSP
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:53 pm

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 37):

get 'er done. Should have already been done.
 
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STT757
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27):
Stay tuned for changes at HNL and SEA..

SEA-NRT 787?
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Rdh3e
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 39):
SEA-NRT 787?

Well the ANA JV is already there. So you can buy a UA ticket SEA-NRT on the 787.... Just won't be UA metal.
 
WROORD
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:43 pm

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 36):
The UA intra-asia crews based in NRT are fantastic

I second that. Everything seems to be better on the intra-asian routes, even food.
 
N1120A
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 23):
SIN retains Global First service via HKG.

Since when? Wasn't HKG-SIN downgauged to a horrid Air Mike 737, along with HKG-SGN?

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 25):
In fact, I typically find sCO crews much more likely to become a newfound friend after some chat in the galleys

Yeah, I've never seen that.

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 25):
I just find your comments on how bad sCO is and how great sUA is not only biased but also inexperienced. I think you'd agree if you have the level of experience you claim to have on both...

Hardly. I made my point, and even cited examples that are extremely common.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 30):
The comment certainly sounded like flambeit more than anything else.

It wasn't. Its the product of extreme frustration and...experience.
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avek00
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:08 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Its the product of extreme frustration and...experience.

You've been doing sCO international BF flights lately? Good for you. 
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N1120A
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:13 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 43):
You've been doing sCO international BF flights lately? Good for you.

Meh, you know my frustrations. Now go say something outrageous and get banned for 5 years  
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tpaewr
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RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):
Why would UA want to put a three-cabin plane on IAH-HNL?

isolating non-IPTE to low yield routes. same logic that saw s-UA 2 cabin 777 replaced the CMI 764 at GUM(or with GUMHNL captive routes)

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
They sure don't show that they are "struggling"

My last long haul on UA was J NRTIAD in June right after the upgrade to CO catering levels. It was a train wreck. Whole courses were missed or confused with other, utensil omitted, it was bad. I am hopeful it will improve....till then I'll stick with sCO planes.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
I've flown nearly a million miles on UA. And no, I haven't had a bad crew.

and I am the Queen of England


Srsly, no human being on Earth has flown that much and not had a bad crew. That statement only serves to devastate your credibility.

[Edited 2012-09-21 17:32:11]
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:06 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 23):
SIN retains Global First service via HKG.

Since when? Wasn't HKG-SIN downgauged to a horrid Air Mike 737, along with HKG-SGN?

HKG-SIN reverts back to an sUA 744 as of Oct 27, 2012.

United to deploy B747 on Hong Kong-Singapore route
International Homo of Mystery
 
codc10
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: Changes Coming To UA NRT - SIN

Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:42 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 42):
Since when? Wasn't HKG-SIN downgauged to a horrid Air Mike 737, along with HKG-SGN?

Yes, but...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 46):
HKG-SIN reverts back to an sUA 744 as of Oct 27, 2012.

in other words, before UA has the unmitigated audacity to replace the spectacular s-UA 777 on NRT-SIN and their polished, superior flight attendants with the atrocious s-CO birds and low-class, charlatan, absentee s-CO crews.  

(Since, you know, that's the rule and all because I have flown over a million miles, which gives me the moral authority and scientific evidence necessary to back up my blanket assertions... sorry, just had to. Nobody likes stereotypes)

[Edited 2012-09-21 19:44:46]