SkyTeamTriStar
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Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:43 pm

Having a pet die while traveling aboard airlines these days is just one of life's horrible situation to have to go through. But, UA is having troubles mount up and bad things for UA just keep coming.

DISCLAIMER: This could happen to any airline. PERIOD.

Comment....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...-_n_1903661.html?utm_hp_ref=travel
 
NASBWI
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:01 pm

You're right; it's a tragic outcome, but unfortunately it does happen. One has to take the huffington post with a grain of salt, however. They posted that there's been an increase in pet deaths onboard aircraft in recent years, but did not back that up with the fact that more pets are traveling by air these days.

Also, they posted that UA did, indeed, refund them their pet fee as well as pay for the necropsy. In that respect, it would appear that UA acted appropriately (minus the incident with the customer service agent - and I wonder if that was more sensationalism from an upset customer or if it really happened).
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 1):
They posted that there's been an increase in pet deaths onboard aircraft in recent years, but did not back that up with the fact that more pets are traveling by air these days.

It may not be so much that there's an actual increase, but that they're actually being reported to the DOT, now.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:55 pm

That's why I'll never have my pet travel in the belly of an aircraft! RIP  
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N766UA
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:41 pm

Anyone putting their dog on a jet has to realize they're rolling the dice with their dog's life. I'd never put my dog on an airplane. Back on the ramp, I went out of my way to take very good care of people's pets, but I was just one person. Most ramp agents either don't care or they don't think. I can't tell you how many times I saw pet carriers out in the sun, behind tugs, or next to exhaust pipes. Once an agent even opened a cage to pet a dog and we spent 20 minutes chasing it around the ramp.

Unfortunately, this isn't news.
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 5):
Once an agent even opened a cage to pet a dog and we spent 20 minutes chasing it around the ramp.

That's why we finally started using nylon tie wraps to keep the door from being opened, enroute........too many nosy cargo and ramp agents. There used to be a pack of dogs running around ORD, from getting loose from their kennels over the years.
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N766UA
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 6):
There used to be a pack of dogs running around ORD, from getting loose from their kennels over the years.

I believe it. I always felt bad for the people who'd try to give me big tips to watch after their dog, it's like dude, I'm going to look after your dog for free, and there's no way I can guarantee anything for the next 15 people who come into contact with it. Keep your money!

Fortunately I never saw any animals harmed, but like I said there were many, many sketchy situations that would absolutely dissuade me from putting my pet on a plane. Just drive, even if it's 2500 miles.
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idlewildchild
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:19 pm

Easy to say 'death happens' when it's not your dog. Obviously a 2 year old arriving dead after being completely fine from a cross country flight means something was terribly wrong with wherever the dog was placed for the flight. No doubt she'll sue, and rightly so, and United will quietly settle out of court to end the case, forcing her to sign a waiver of responsibility for United. It's not rocket science. Healthy dog arrives at airport for flight, healthy dog is turned over to United for transportation, dog arrives dead. United is liable, period. Let's stop protecting the obvoius here folks. I understand there is risk but how clear are any of the carriers about risk and if the risks are that high, then stop taking peoples pets and killing them.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 8):
I understand there is risk but how clear are any of the carriers about risk and if the risks are that high, then stop taking peoples pets and killing them.

Doesn't DL not take pets? I think I heard this one time. Smart IMO (if true)
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):

Doesn't DL not take pets? I think I heard this one time. Smart IMO (if true)

DL does indeed take pets. From May 15th until Sept 15th, most every year, there's a suspension on pets checked as baggage and they have to be shipped as cargo (depending on the temps).
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N766UA
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:53 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):
Doesn't DL not take pets? I think I heard this one time. Smart IMO (if true)

DAL does between certain dates in the warm months. I believe JetBlue does not take pets any time except in the cabin.
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N766UA
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:57 pm

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 8):
Easy to say 'death happens' when it's not your dog.

It's not easy, it sucks.

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 8):
I understand there is risk but how clear are any of the carriers about risk and if the risks are that high, then stop taking peoples pets and killing them.

I agree, airlines probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it, especially dogs and cats. However, ANYONE who trusts an airline 100% and doesn't bother to look into something before sending an animal they supposedly love on a jet is, at best, completely obtuse.

To those who actually do the research, knowingly spin the wheel, and end up losing a pet, obviously you have my sincere sympathy because that absolutely sucks, but nobody should be surprised.
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ghifty
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
I agree, airlines probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it, especially dogs and cats. However, ANYONE who trusts an airline 100% and doesn't bother to look into something before sending an animal they supposedly love on a jet is, at best, completely obtuse.

Do people who put their pets into the baggage hold have to sign a liability waiver?

If they do, there's no case here.
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:37 pm

I am interested in the real risks. Are there actual stress, pressure variation, or other risks for dogs?

Or is this all about cargo handlers placing the dogs in locations where they'll suffocate, breathe dangerous fumes, or get exposed to extreme temperatures?
 
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:45 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):

DAL does between certain dates in the warm months.

DL accepts pets ALL year, subject to temperature limitations. As stated, between May 15th and Sept 15th they are only accepted as cargo and NOT checked baggage.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
I agree, airlines probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it, especially dogs and cats. However, ANYONE who trusts an airline 100% and doesn't bother to look into something before sending an animal they supposedly love on a jet is, at best, completely obtuse.

Why stop there.......why not go for 100%? I can assure you that the airlines don't have an acceptable number of pets that can die while transported before they worry about it. I used to and the agents that have followed me since do the best we can with pets, EVERYDAY. Were not out there just to "kill" them as someone said. WE had a zero tolerance policy. It would be my best guess that most animals that die during transport, had some sort of health problem that was not revealed and the stress (yes, there IS stress) of transportation did them in, not some agent "killing" them.
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N766UA
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:10 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 13):
Do people who put their pets into the baggage hold have to sign a liability waiver?

I know we had paperwork, but I forget what it was apart from the little tag we were supposed to give to the pax that said "I'm on board!" It's been a few years, but yeah you're probably right.

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 14):
Or is this all about cargo handlers placing the dogs in locations where they'll suffocate, breathe dangerous fumes, or get exposed to extreme temperatures?

It's both. Obviously, even if a dog is completely cared for and put exactly where he's supposed to be, it's still a new and stressful experience. Even a healthy dog could panic, have a heart attack, whatever. A pet could also injure himself trying to escape or actually escaping from his cage. Also, the risks you mentioned about agents themselves are a worry.

Personally, I took the best care of pets that I could, being a dog owner myself. I'd visit with them in the bag room, make sure they had water, put them under the wing in the shade, etc. It should be known that many CSRs and ramp agents are caring, thoughtful people. There are enough that aren't, however, that I wouldn't put my dog on a plane, in addition to the other reasons listed above which have nothing to do with individual people.
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Beardown91737
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:37 pm

We had our two cats shipped from Chicago to Southern California in 1990, after deciding that a 40 hour drive would be too much for them.

We moved in mid August and UA would not take pets if it was 90 (I think) or more. So for a couple weeks they could not leave from ORD. After the temps got lower at ORD, they could not arrive at ONT all the way into October. Then my mom got creative and decided temperatures would be lower at LAX, where they would arrive at about midnight. The cats then made the 70 mile car trip to their new home but got there safely.

UA had a long list of do's and dont's. So I think they put a lot of effort into safe transport. Of course airline employees workload has been increased in the meantime so these days it may be hard for the airline workers to track the pets properly.
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SkyTeamTriStar
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 10):
DL does indeed take pets. From May 15th until Sept 15th, most every year, there's a suspension on pets checked as baggage and they have to be shipped as cargo (depending on the temps).
Quoting N766UA (Reply 11):
DAL does between certain dates in the warm months. I believe JetBlue does not take pets any time except in the cabin.

I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....
 
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 18):
I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....

I understood that when DL put new crew rest areas on the 767s, it affected the ventilation in the bulk bin, raising the temps to unacceptable levels for animals in the bin. Therefore, they can no longer board live animals on 767s in the bulk bin.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 13):

Do people who put their pets into the baggage hold have to sign a liability waiver?

Not as far as I can remember and I worked with pets with an airline for 33 years. Now, if a customer wanted to declare a higher value than would be normal (depending on weight......$.50 per pound or $50.00 minimum, whichever is greater) they can, but if THERE is a claim that the airline accepts, whichever value is on the airbill when shipped is the value that the claim (if honored) will be paid at.
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N766UA
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:04 am

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 18):
I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....

Is the rear bin/bulk bin heated and pressurized? I know on all the narrow body jets only the front bin is suitable for animals.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:29 am

Didn't we JUST have this debate a month ago in CivAv?

UA: Responsible For Dogs Death? (by usflyguy Aug 18 2012 in Civil Aviation)
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:38 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
I know on all the narrow body jets only the front bin is suitable for animals.

On the 757 and 737, it's the rear bin that's heated and pressurized.......on the DC-9, etc., it's in the front......the CRJ200/700 & 900 is in the rear. Can't speak for Airbus products.
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mayor
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:40 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):

Is the rear bin/bulk bin heated and pressurized?

On the 767 and 777, I believe it is. 747, too......I'm guessing that on the A330s, it's the same.
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kiwiinoz
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:56 am

I would disagree that the airline did all that it could, although I would concur that they do no more or less than other airlines

I would think that there should be some level of awareness of temperatures in the hold if they are going to sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours and take appropriate action.
 
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
On the 757 and 737, it's the rear bin that's heated and pressurized

Pets travel in both, forward and aft pit on both aircraft types. Pets cannot fly on the magic carpet nor the telescoping system on both sUA and sCO.

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
Can't speak for Airbus products.

Same as above.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 24):
I would think that there should be some level of awareness of temperatures in the hold if they are going to sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours and take appropriate action.

PetSafe has that all covered. No worries. In order to work PetSafe, one would need to be specially trained to do this task.
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:40 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):

Pets travel in both, forward and aft pit on both aircraft types.

On DL, even if they CAN be loaded in front on the 737 and 757, they're only loaded in the rear.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 25):

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 24):
I would think that there should be some level of awareness of temperatures in the hold if they are going to sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours and take appropriate action.

PetSafe has that all covered. No worries. In order to work PetSafe, one would need to be specially trained to do this task.

On DL they shouldn't BE sitting on the ramp for that long. At SLC, we took them from cargo to the flight, at the most, an hour before departure, depending on the weather. Now, they have air conditioned vans at the hubs to transport them to and from cargo and also to make connections, mostly at the hubs.
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:44 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 26):

I'm talking about UA, in which is what this thread is about. Not DL.
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):

I'm talking about UA, in which is what this thread is about. Not DL.

The general thread, yes...........but this is what was asked and answered ABOUT DL:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 20):
Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Reply 18):
I believe that DL doesn't take pets in bulk bin on their 767s. Somebody else can enlighten us as to why.....this just started a mere several months ago....

Is the rear bin/bulk bin heated and pressurized? I know on all the narrow body jets only the front bin is suitable for animals.

I could answer the question, including UA and CO, but since I'm not sure of their procedures, I thought I would just answer about the ones I know, DL's........sorry that offends you.
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copter808
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:20 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 12):
probably shouldn't take pets until they can assure 99.99% of them make it

I'm sure the success rate is far above 99%, although maybe not as high as 99.99%. As others have said, most airline employees take good care of the animals, and a few even show them extra attention.

The biggest problem I see with this incident--if it happened as reported--is the cargo agent's attitude. This is likely an area that needs additional training and needs to be addressed. The response needs to be pre-planned, not made up after the incident.
 
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:13 am

I had to move my frenchie from Switzerland to Singapore once and LH was one of the few (if not the only) that would fly him on the belly of the airplane (A343). Some other carries would only fly dogs on their cargo services. Middle East carriers don't fly animals at all because of ground temperatures in those countries. It is not an ideal situation, by no means, but sometimes you simply have to because your job dictates where you have to be next.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 7):
Just drive, even if it's 2500 miles.

You know that there's more to the world than 2500 miles and that you cannot "just drive" to all places, right?

Quoting SkyTeamTriStar (Thread starter):
DISCLAIMER: This could happen to any airline. PERIOD.

We don't even know what happened for sure, so your "disclaimer" is pointless. What may happen to any airline is a passenger to have a stroke and die on the plane, but if an airline keeps an aircraft on the ground for many hours without proper ventilation, high temperatures and on a stressful situation, and then someone suffers a stroke, that's a different thing. That's mishandling a situation and it happens quite often.
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AR385
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:15 am

Way back when...In 1989 I was on an AA 767-200ER flying DFW-MAD and we left the gate and started taxiing towards the runway. Ten minutes into the taxi, the Captain comes on the PA and announces that we have to return to the gate due to a couple of pet dogs that had been loaded and placed next to some cargo that could potentially harm them. It took us about 1hr back at the gate to fix the problem. At the same time he adressed the family who owned them and told them everything was ok and as long as they move the dogs to another location in the hold they would be fine.

I´ve always wondered who caught the mistake, how it was caught and what would have happened 10hrs later in MAD when they unloaded the dogs.

[Edited 2012-09-24 00:17:41]
 
AF1624
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:36 am

What shocks me most is not the death of the animal per say. Travelling in a plane's baggage hold, basically, along with other animals barking and whining, must be an overly stressful experience and I guess some dogs can't cope with it.

When you put your animal on a plane, you have to know in what conditions it will travel and therefore, it is your responsibility if you make the animal go through this. I'm not saying it's inhumane, I'm just saying it's an informed decision.

However what is troubling to me is the way UA handled the matter. Keeping the dog locked while the company discusses how to deal with the problem isn't good. There should be clean and correct procedures for handling situations like these.
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:06 am

From the OP's link:

"We understand that the loss of a beloved pet is difficult and express our condolences to Ms. Rizer and her family for their loss," United Airlines' spokesperson Mary Ryan wrote in a statement to The Huffington Post. "After careful review, we found there were no mechanical or operational issues with Bea’s flight and also determined she was in a temperature-controlled environment for her entire journey.

My impression is that if the dog was was in "a temperature-controlled environment for her entire journey" but actually died from heatstroke, the "temperature-controlled environment" was not controlled wherever the dog was loaded. I don't have a clue but are there hot spots in the hold (eg in areas where there is an ingress of heated air)?
 
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:54 am

United breaks guitars, they kill dogs, what's next?

   

At least united is lucky that she is a model and not a country singer./ song writer...

OK,

  

[Edited 2012-09-24 03:10:21]
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afterburner
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:06 am

Is the dog's owner really famous? I've never heard of her.
 
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:40 am

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 24):
I would think that there should be some level of awareness of temperatures in the hold if they are going to sit on the tarmac for a couple of hours and take appropriate action.

Some companies don't even care about the cabin temperature !
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RE: Alleged: Famous Model's Dog Dies On UA

Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:06 pm

Quoting afterburner (Reply 35):
Is the dog's owner really famous? I've never heard of her.

I've not heard of her, either. But, I do know one thing. If the TODAY Show has a segment about this whole episode, then she is famous enough. All kidding aside, I vaguely recognize her face from of the pics thats being shown on the T.V.