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CV880
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CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:13 pm

Link from the Airport Website:

Depicts terminal, new parallel runway & control tower expansion. Concourses A,B,E to be expanded. The A "annex" will actually be part of the new international concourse where the rental cars are presently located.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/A...nnualReportCouncilPresentation.pdf
 
apodino
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:04 pm

The area around the E gates is a bottleneck at the moment, and adding gates where they are showing without any ramp improvements is going to make that even worse...turning a bottleneck into a logjam.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:26 pm

I think my favorite part is the UA 72S in battleship grey on the cover, along with AC's old colors and a DC-9 in the bowling shoe.

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
The area around the E gates is a bottleneck at the moment, and adding gates where they are showing without any ramp improvements is going to make that even worse...turning a bottleneck into a logjam.

  

Would removing part of E and putting a tunnel underneath solve the problem? They wouldn't need the gate space after the B expansion.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
toneale
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:53 pm

Of course, the new runway spells the demise of the best feature at CLT - The Overlook.
 
southwest737500
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:25 pm

Quoting toneale (Reply 3):

I'll so frustrated if they take that out
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
southwest737500
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:28 pm

Maybe they make another overlook right next to the new 12,000 foot runway, just move it back

I go there 2 times a week at least I love it dearly
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
JaxMan19
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:54 pm

How many gates will this bring CLT to?
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:52 pm

Quoting toneale (Reply 3):
Of course, the new runway spells the demise of the best feature at CLT - The Overlook.

Wait.... ANOTHER parallel runway?? Me confoosed....
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:16 am

Love the AC bird in old colors...

Upon completion of Concourse E and the Concourse A annex, the total number of gates at CLT will be 111. If you look around CLT you'll notice that they added signs saying "E1-E50", in preparation for the addition.


Anyway, the Concourse A annex is the part the interests me the most. They are going to build 4 gates, for WN, DL, and UA. Do they really need more gates? They have unveiled so little information about this part of the project..its kind of weird. How will this be connected to the main terminal? Will it be called Concourse A once the entire expansion project is done? I always thought it would be called Concourse F.

Concourse E needs to be disconnected from the Main Terminal building IMHO..

Quoting toneale (Reply 3):
Of course, the new runway spells the demise of the best feature at CLT - The Overlook.

They've said they would move the Overlook.
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:13 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):
Upon completion of Concourse E and the Concourse A annex, the total number of gates at CLT will be 111. If you look around CLT you'll notice that they added signs saying "E1-E50", in preparation for the addition.

I thought the 50 in "E50" was the number of miles from that gate to the end of Concourse B...   
 
USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 9):
I thought the 50 in "E50" was the number of miles from that gate to the end of Concourse B...

This really needs to be addressed. I cannot imagine going from B23 to E50. Whether it be some kind of transit system, who knows..
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southwest737500
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:16 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):

They really do need the gates, delta is jammed with the 4 they have, they actually use AirTrans gates sometimes, UA aswell AA to they really need the gates
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
silentbob
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:09 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 8):
Concourse E needs to be disconnected from the Main Terminal building IMHO..

An underground people mover from where it currently intersects with D might allow for an alternate traffic flow to get around the bottle neck.
 
USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
An underground people mover from where it currently intersects with D might allow for an alternate traffic flow to get around the bottle neck.

I don't think a people mover is needed from D-E..the walking distance isn't that far. What I could see is a people mover connected all of the concourses together...something similar to SEA.

Maybe a people mover from B-Atrium-C-D-E, something like that.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 11):
They really do need the gates, delta is jammed with the 4 they have, they actually use AirTrans gates sometimes, UA aswell AA to they really need the gates

Besides you actually wanting the expansion to happen..do they really need the gates?

Think about it, DL currently has 33 flights into CLT. Divide that by 4. Thats 8.25 flights per gate. Easily do-able.

UA has 23 daily flights into CLT and uses 4 gates. Divide that by 4. Thats 5.75 flights per gate. Again, easily do-able.

Unless DL and UA want to undergo an aggressive expansion at CLT, (highly unlikely) I don't know why this expansion is needed. Unless, CLT wants to move B6 over to A to make room for US in D. Or, CLT wants to see new airlines expand at CLT (NK, VX, AS....) and wants to make room for them in A.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
airliner371
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:41 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 11):
they actually use AirTrans gates sometimes

And thats another problem. AirTran has 1 gate and SWA said they want 2 minimum. That means DL can't use FL's which makes a bigger problem.
 
southwest737500
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:18 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 13):

AA has 2 gates, they need atleast 3 or 4, after spotting at the airport there is a huge arrival of ERJ145 and 1 CRJ 700 and there is still a ERJ145 and MD82 there trying to launch

I think CLT wants for airlines, I think AS will be the newest airline, I can maybe see NK aswell
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
brandonfsu05
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:24 pm

have to love that cost per emplanement statistic
 
AAflyguy
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:53 pm

I think that super low cost of enplanements is evident all over the facility. From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited. Also, it depends on how their CPE is calculated (what cost centers are included). Have to be comparing apples to apples between airports and how they calculate their CPE. Anyway, hats off to CLT for having such a cheap airport to operate from. Still don't know how it's possible to have a virtually non-existent cost per enplanement. One thing is for sure, as all of these projects come online, there is no way the CPE won't increase quite a bit unless passengers continue to climb at a steep rate. CLT isn't that large of an O&D market, so it will have to come through mainly connect traffic on US. CLT w/US is trying to become the anti-ATL, and has had moderate success thus far.

AAflyguy

[Edited 2012-09-25 07:56:58]
 
boberito6589
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 17):
From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited.

CLT just finished an improvement project which installed some new signage, carpets, shops have gotten renovated, and the US Airways gate areas got a touch up, I think the major push was to get most of the work done before the DNC, but work is going to continue in E where they are taking out the in-between gate center podiums and installing more seating.
 
727LOVER
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:25 pm

What timeframe are we looking at for the overlook to go bye-bye?
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USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:29 pm

Quoting boberito6589 (Reply 18):
Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 17):From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited.
CLT just finished an improvement project which installed some new signage, carpets, shops have gotten renovated, and the US Airways gate areas got a touch up, I think the major push was to get most of the work done before the DNC, but work is going to continue in E where they are taking out the in-between gate center podiums and installing more seating.

The baggage claim areas were recently renovated which look really nice IMHO. New carpeting has been installed in all areas. Also, CLT seems to be putting more "compass" signs everywhere. I've seen them in the parking garages, and the entrance to D and E, but now they are all over the terminal, including at the entrances to the security check points, and concourse A, B,C. They aren't much, but I believe they look fantastic.

CLT recently opened the Terminal East expansion, which will serve as a model for the rest of the terminal.


Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 15):
AA has 2 gates, they need atleast 3 or 4, after spotting at the airport there is a huge arrival of ERJ145 and 1 CRJ 700 and there is still a ERJ145 and MD82 there trying to launch

I think CLT wants for airlines, I think AS will be the newest airline, I can maybe see NK aswell

You can't tell how many daily flights there are just from spotting! AA currently has 21 flights into CLT, out of two gates. Thats 10.5 flights per gate. Nothing to challenging. Whats more, AA will not receive any new gates at the satellite terminal.
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USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
What timeframe are we looking at for the overlook to go bye-bye?

Probably somewhere in the late 2013 timeframe. CLT officials insist they will move it..
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
brandonfsu05
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 17):

I think that super low cost of enplanements is evident all over the facility. From my perspective, it's old & tired and there's not been much $$$ put into the concourses over the years. I flew through there in 2011 for the first time in several years, and I wasn't impressed. Just looked worn out on the primary concourses I visited. Also, it depends on how their CPE is calculated (what cost centers are included). Have to be comparing apples to apples between airports and how they calculate their CPE. Anyway, hats off to CLT for having such a cheap airport to operate from. Still don't know how it's possible to have a virtually non-existent cost per enplanement. One thing is for sure, as all of these projects come online, there is no way the CPE won't increase quite a bit unless passengers continue to climb at a steep rate. CLT isn't that large of an O&D market, so it will have to come through mainly connect traffic on US. CLT w/US is trying to become the anti-ATL, and has had moderate success thus far.

This is the United States. A lot of airports look old and tired. But, it's nice for it be done more cheaply. Anyways airport bonds are put forth so airline passengers arent stuck paying for the entire sum. It's a way of creating business. I don't think a passenger says, "I'm not flying through CLT because the carpet was patched up on B Concourse last time." When they see the cheap ticket with US Airways at CLT, they are probably going.

When you review the other airports and their cost per enplanement statistics...I mean...CLT is spartan and clean, nothing earth shattering. It serves the intended purpose. I think the facility is pretty much consistent. D is a little nicer because of the higher ceilings and windows, but the feel is consistent throughout. Many of these other airports have higher enplanement statistics, but where is the money going? For the price that is paid at many airports on that list, you aren't seeing anything aesthetically spectacular. Furthermore, many of these airports have one REALLY REALLY nice area and the rest is garbage.

In any case US AIRWAYS CEO has thanked CLT for managing the airport that way.

[Edited 2012-09-25 09:25:19]
 
USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:42 pm

Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 22):

Your absolutely right. For the price CLT runs things, the facility looks pretty good. Sure, could it look better? Probably. But most connecting passengers don't give a crap about what the facility looks like as long as it is clean and easy to connect through. Could it be cleaner? Sure...But CLT must be doing fine if they were voted the second best airport in America by T+L.

Now about those bathroom attendants..
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
AAflyguy
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:07 pm

Happy to hear about the recent renovations, and makes sense they would be rushed along in advance of the DNC coming to town. The terminal expansion area pictured above looks great! I simply connected (back in Mar '11) and was in Conc B, C, and E. My experience was that E looked the most modern, by far, of those three. But, sounds like B & C are playing catch-up and looking much better. I think another part was how crowded B & C were..so many people jammed into those areas. And, my point about CPE stands. There are various ways to compute CPE, so CLT may be using one which makes its costs appear to be so much lower than other airports. ATL, for instance, looks to be about $4.00, which is pretty amazing considering how vast that terminal & airfield complex is combined with the extensive renovation & expansion recently completed or underway. It's a smart move by CLT/US to position the airport in a way that offers an alternative to ATL. The airport and community it serves will continue to benefit from the growing hub operation there for decades to come.
 
goboeing
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:11 pm

If AA and US really did merge, what do you all think would happen with CLT?

Personally I think it would shrink a bit (not quite like a MEM or CVG though).
 
compensateme
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:20 pm



Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 24):
ATL, for instance, looks to be about $4.00, which is pretty amazing considering how vast that terminal & airfield complex is combined with the extensive renovation & expansion recently completed or underway.

Considering that ATL’s on pace to handle nearly 100M passengers this year, why is that figure surprising? If O’Hare was able to spread its cost amongst another 40M passengers, its CPE wouldn’t be much higher. And given the recent expansion at ATL, its CPE will no doubt rise significantly in beginning in 2013. MIA, for example, is forecasted to have a staggering $45-$50 CPE within two years.

But I’m with you… it’d be interesting to see a comparison of CPE using a standard approach, as many of these numbers differ substantially from what’s off the top of my head.

Nonetheless, some airports with low CPE -- like SLC and now CLT -- seem to view it as means for a blank check in regards to future expansion & improvements.

[Edited 2012-09-25 11:27:46]
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Would removing part of E and putting a tunnel underneath solve the problem? They wouldn't need the gate space after the B expansion.

That's really only a small part of the problem. The big deal is when aircraft head to the North Ramp, where Concourse E lies, they have to squeeze past Concourse D. It's one-way traffic there. And if Lufthansa or any of the Airways heavies are looking to push, you can be out of commission for a long time. Sometimes ATC can accommodate them by letting inbounds take M and C and enter the ramp on C10-12, but that's really inconvenient to them and not always a very good option (i.e. it's impossible if you have aircraft lined up on M and/or C in line for 18L).

Closing 5/23 and turning it into a taxiway would help somewhat. Moving 18L/36R to the east a little would do wonders, but I'm pretty doubtful that will happen.

I shudder to think of all the excess fuel that's burned out there by aircraft waiting to get to the gate.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
southwest737500
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 25):

It will gain flights, not a lot but
Next flight: TUL-ATL-CLT CRJ900 and MD88
 
tp1040
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:57 pm

Looking at the planned runway configuration, is there room for a future 5th parallel runway?

Also, thought they had planned to do away with 5/23.
 
USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting AAflyguy (Reply 24):
My experience was that E looked the most modern, by far, of those three.

E is the newest out all the concourses, and the only one still not at completion.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 29):
Looking at the planned runway configuration, is there room for a future 5th parallel runway?


Also, thought they had planned to do away with 5/23.

Is there room? Not currently, but I suppose one could be built west of 36R and the hangers. I don't think you could build one between 36L and the future runway because that's where the intermodal yard will go.

And yes, once the new runway is open 5/23 will be closed. Reasoning is so they can build parallel concourses similar to ATL and DEN. Of course, this is all years away.
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CV880
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 30):
Is there room? Not currently, but I suppose one could be built west of 36R and the hangers. I don't think you could build one between 36L and the future runway because that's where the intermodal yard will go.

The overlay that I saw on a similar site showed a 5th parallel to the east of 36R, which would probably require fill on the south end and some obliteration of the ANG/Wilson Air ramp areas. If/when that happens is probably years down the road, depending upon traffic needs.
 
USAirALB
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 31):
The overlay that I saw on a similar site showed a 5th parallel to the east of 36R,

I mean't to the east..if you put a parallel to the west it would be on the terminal! Do you have the site?
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
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CV880
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:30 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 32):
I mean't to the east..if you put a parallel to the west it would be on the terminal! Do you have the site?
http://charlottechamber.com/clientup...tations/Jerry_Orr_%20March2012.pdf

Now slightly altered-- the "green" runway will be extended to 12,000' (around p.25 in the file)

[Edited 2012-09-25 20:31:43]
 
HPRamper
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:07 am

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 28):
It will gain flights, not a lot but

I don't really see how CLT could gain any more.

CLT is basically maxed out for Southeast markets, and it will (would) lose connecting traffic to DFW and to a lesser extent ORD. Plus possibly losing some Caribbean frequencies to MIA.

I think best-case scenario for CLT is status quo but I don't really even see that.
 
r2rho
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting apodino (Reply 1):
The area around the E gates is a bottleneck at the moment, and adding gates where they are showing without any ramp improvements is going to make that even worse...turning a bottleneck into a logjam.

Exactly. This was much discussed in the previous thread:

CLT To Build New Runway (by USAirALB Aug 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)

They are basically taking a dysfunctional concourse layout and expanding it as-is. Great. As you say, the bottleneck - which is the taxiway system, not the runways or otherwise - will only get worse.

As for the new international terminal - will it be connected airside with the others? Or will you have to re-re-check security?
Some distances are starting to become pretty long - imagine transferring from international to concourse E. Wouldn't it be time for a people mover?

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Would removing part of E and putting a tunnel underneath solve the problem? They wouldn't need the gate space after the B expansion.

Indeed, a tunnel solution à la BRU for concourse E would solve part of the problem. Chipping off a corner of D to allow for two-way taxi operations would solve the other part.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 35):
Chipping off a corner of D to allow for two-way taxi operations would solve the other part.

If they close 5/23, it seems like expanding D in that direction (basically parallel to C) would make sense and solve the problem.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 34):
CLT is basically maxed out for Southeast markets, and it will (would) lose connecting traffic to DFW and to a lesser extent ORD. Plus possibly losing some Caribbean frequencies to MIA.

Of course, CLT will also gain some traffic that connects over DFW and ORD (and perhaps even MIA) today.

[Edited 2012-09-26 05:21:45]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
airliner371
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):
If they close 5/23, it seems like expanding D in that direction (basically parallel to C) would make sense and solve the problem.

I know they plan on (over many years) fixing the airport to an ATL or DEN like format so not sure they would do this.
 
tp1040
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:07 pm

Thanks for the update. I was not aware of the intermodel complex. Hope that works out for CLT.
 
flyguy89
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:31 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 36):
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 34):
CLT is basically maxed out for Southeast markets, and it will (would) lose connecting traffic to DFW and to a lesser extent ORD. Plus possibly losing some Caribbean frequencies to MIA.

Of course, CLT will also gain some traffic that connects over DFW and ORD (and perhaps even MIA) today.

What traffic would that be?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):
What traffic would that be?

AA sells tickets on routes like RDU-MSY and CHS-IND. Some southeast-west coast traffic would probably also shift, though CLT versus ORD/DFW is more of a wash for them.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
flyguy89
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 39):
What traffic would that be?

AA sells tickets on routes like RDU-MSY and CHS-IND. Some southeast-west coast traffic would probably also shift, though CLT versus ORD/DFW is more of a wash for them.

I seriously doubt those type of itineraries make up any significant amount of connecting traffic at ORD and DFW. CLT on the other hand has a lot more non-sensical connecting traffic currently forced over CLT because it has no alternative, they have more to lose to "network synergies" IMO.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 41):
CLT on the other hand has a lot more non-sensical connecting traffic currently forced over CLT because it has no alternative

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Flaps
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:04 pm

For me it isn't the appearance of the terminal that makes me avoid CLT. Its the serious overcrowding and the distances that must be traveled through that overcrowding. The vast majority of my travel has me visiting smaller communities and at busy hours the schlepping between B and E through all that congestion is ridiculous. CLT has some fine amenities including some excellent food choices but it is impossible to enjoy them if one can neither get to them or find a place to sit. All of the seating areas in all concourses (excepting D) are too small which pushes waiting passengers out into the already overcrowded concourses. I don't see much in these plans that address any of this.
I used to love CLT and in the past had preferred it over ATL. Presently that is reversed with ATL having continued to improve and CLT well, not so much. I commend the folks at CLT for having done a very good job with what they have had to work with. I think however that they have run with that terminal as far as they can. They don't need a an expansion in terms of the number of gates so much as they need an expansion of the width of the concourses and the speed of transit between them.
That cost per enplanement has been a huge factor in CLT's continued success. They need to be very careful about how they spend their money. Those low enplanement costs figure very highly in US' operating plans. Raise those costs too much and and US will find another way (see PIT).
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 43):
They don't need a an expansion in terms of the number of gates so much as they need an expansion of the width of the concourses and the speed of transit between them.

I'm not sure I agree with your point of view. It takes me about ten minutes to walk from the end of Concourse E to the end of A or B. That doesn't seem like a big deal to me, especially compared to places like ATL.

If I were disabled or if I had difficulty walking long distances, CLT would definitely be more daunting.

I do agree that most of the concourses, save the great D extension and E, are a little dingy and dated and could use a good modernization.

I also think that a widening of at least Concourse B is included in the current plan...I could be wrong, however.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
flyguy89
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 42):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 41):
CLT on the other hand has a lot more non-sensical connecting traffic currently forced over CLT because it has no alternative

What evidence do you have to support this assertion?

The same evidence you probably had for your assertion.

According to DOT stats, CLT has larger amounts of connecting traffic than both ORD and DFW, so it's obvious CLT's bread and butter is connecting traffic. However, if you're anywhere east of the Appalachians and looking to fly anywhere other than the East Coast and Florida, US itineraries always make you backtrack through CLT or PHL. Essentially, I'm guessing that CLT's east coast operations remain mostly the same, but pretty much anywhere else will get slimmed down (i.e. Midwest/Great Plains, West Coast, some Caribbean/International).
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 45):
The same evidence you probably had for your assertion.

Well, my assertion was that AA connects SOME traffic over ORD and DFW that would be better served over CLT, and DoT data bear that out because any amount of traffic on itineraries like the ones I mentioned would qualify.

On the other hand, your assertion was that US connects MORE traffic over CLT that ought to use an AA hub than AA connects over one of its hubs that ought to use CLT. And for now, that assertion has no support that I can see.
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flyguy89
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:07 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 46):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 45):
The same evidence you probably had for your assertion.

Well, my assertion was that AA connects SOME traffic over ORD and DFW that would be better served over CLT, and DoT data bear that out because any amount of traffic on itineraries like the ones I mentioned would qualify.

On the other hand, your assertion was that US connects MORE traffic over CLT that ought to use an AA hub than AA connects over one of its hubs that ought to use CLT. And for now, that assertion has no support that I can see.

Right. And if you look at that same data for any airport west of the Appalachians, you'll see that US carries traffic on more itineraries better flowed over DFW or ORD than does AA on similar flows. Routes like RDU-MSY are a given to CLT and little would change on the East Coast as I said, but little would also change in that respect at DFW and ORD as they're larger O&D markets...DFW-MSY and ORD-CHS have far more local traffic to buoy any potential loss of connecting pax than would CLT on CLT-BNA/MCI/IND/CMH/CVG/DSM/ATL/SDF...etc. If you're trying to fly US anywhere east of the Appalachians to the Great Plains or west of the Mississippi, or even Florida to the West Coast (all of which US carries traffic on according to the DOT), the only available itineraries are through CLT, PHL, and maybe PHX (also less convenient unless you're going to LA or San Diego).

So if some of this connecting traffic is shifted away, it affects CLT more as CLT flights carry a greater portion of connecting traffic than do DFW or ORD.
 
PITrules
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:21 am

There is something odd (or unexplained) about the methodology being used for this expansion.

The airport is planning new concourses for domestic and int'l flights. They are beginning this by adding international gates to the domestic regional concourse, but starting the international concourse as 4 domestic gates? Why not do the opposite of that? Better yet why not just add the B extension for growth by all the domestic carriers, and move B6 over there as well, which would free up a gate or two on D?

BETTER YET, since they are planning on closing 5/23, and developing an ATL style terminal, why not just do that to start with. Close 5/23 and add the B extension for immediate growth. Then add the next satellite concourse south of that to replace the original B and C; extend the new B extension eastward as needed and totally do away with E and the planned international terminal on the rental car lot. The space taken up by the E and proposed international ramps would be much better suited for dual taxiways, run-up/hold pads, and deicing pads for the respective runways.

That aside, impressive growth at CLT.

[Edited 2012-09-26 22:22:50]
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RE: CLT 2015 Expansion Plans

Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:35 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 48):
BETTER YET, since they are planning on closing 5/23, and developing an ATL style terminal, why not just do that to start with. Close 5/23 and add the B extension for immediate growth. Then add the next satellite concourse south of that to replace the original B and C; extend the new B extension eastward as needed and totally do away with E and the planned international terminal on the rental car lot. The space taken up by the E and proposed international ramps would be much better suited for dual taxiways, run-up/hold pads, and deicing pads for the respective runways.

Except that Jerry Orr is very conservative with the $$--He's gotta make sure that He's got enough $$ from the FAA, Bonds, & PFC's before He spends it. He also needs the 4th parallel runway before 5-23 can be shut down, as much of the landing traffic has used that runway for decades, despite it's intersection with 18L-36R and near intersection with 18-36C (with credit to CLT Tower for juggling the traffic). He's also counting on revenue from NS Railway for the use of the intermodal facility(which is not yet operational).

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