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SKAirbus
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Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:58 am

According to NRK, a Hungarian supervisor who worked for Ryanair at Rygge is suing the company for unfair dismissal.

He was accused of manipulating sales onboard and for having one day's unauthorised absence by the airline.

Although the contracts state that Irish law applies when it comes to employment law, the case is going to be heard by a court in Moss (near Rygge) and that the case will be decided according to Norwegian employment law.

A quote by a person who works with employment law in Norway states:

"Ryanair has always claimed that they can just contract away from the laws in any country the employees work in. This has been rejected by the Norwegian judicial authority as long as they live and work in Norway".

Although this particular case is somewhat insignificant in terms of the individual it can have big consequences for Ryanair's operations in Norway as no doubt MOL will throw his toys out of the pram and make all sorts of threats if he actually has to treat his employees with any kind of respect and fairness.

According to the article, Ryanair closed down a base in France after being forced to issue staff with French employment contracts. Unlike Ireland, France and Norway have very strict employment laws.

Could this case have far-reaching implications for their operations in Norway, if Norwegian authorities force Ryanair to handle its employees under Norwegian employment laws?

Article (in Norwegian):

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostfold/1.8334623
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acelanzarote
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:15 am

If Ryanair loose, it may end up facing other cases in other Counties...be interesting to see how this plays out....
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vfw614
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:44 am

Isn't the question of what law is applicable to a contract in cross-border scenarios not covered by European law?
 
smws
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:29 am

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 1):
If Ryanair loose, it may end up facing other cases in other Counties...be interesting to see how this plays out....

I doubt Ryanair will lose the case. If the courts don't dismiss the case themselves, I can see Ryanair acting very fast to settle the matter out of court as quickly as possible. Just to avoid a precedent which could, in the future, be used against them in similar matters.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:02 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Thread starter):

"Ryanair has always claimed that they can just contract away from the laws in any country the employees work in. This has been rejected by the Norwegian judicial authority as long as they live and work in Norway".

Some years ago they lost a lawsuit in Belgium (it was about the one year probation period FR has, and during which employees can be fired without notice and compensation, versus the 6 months maximum permitted by Belgian law).
Belgian labour court stated that, as long as trhe persons are working and based in Belgium, Belgian law applies.

IIRC, they also lost a lawsuit in Italy, where FR staff formed a union as per Italian law.This is a union site, therefore not impartial, but it gives some ideas:
http://www.itfglobal.org/campaigns/ryan-be-fair.cfm
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SKAirbus
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting smws (Reply 3):
I doubt Ryanair will lose the case. If the courts don't dismiss the case themselves, I can see Ryanair acting very fast to settle the matter out of court as quickly as possible. Just to avoid a precedent which could, in the future, be used against them in similar matters.

Remember that employment law in Norway is very orientated towards the employee and even if he/she breached his/her employment contract, if it is contradictory to what is common practice in Norway, then they could still lose.
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FoxRomeo
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:05 pm

Manipulating onboard sales? In other words, stealing... and he's trying to say it's unfair dismissal?
 
chumley
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:48 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 2):
Isn't the question of what law is applicable to a contract in cross-border scenarios not covered by European law?

Norway is not a member of the EU and is not bound by "European Law"
 
WROORD
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:41 pm

I wouldn't worry too much. FR has issues with almost every country about something, but they need to fly to make their profit. I would say they will keep going like nothing ever happened.
 
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SKAirbus
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting FoxRomeo (Reply 6):
Manipulating onboard sales? In other words, stealing... and he's trying to say it's unfair dismissal?

Well if it was day light robbery there would be no grounds for a tribunal in any country, but I think the issue you here is that he/she was accused without there being any concrete proof. Obviously that is acceptable under Irish law. Anyway, watch this space; will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
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LOWS
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:54 am

Quoting chumley (Reply 7):
Norway is not a member of the EU and is not bound by "European Law"

No, but it is bound by European Law as a member of the European Free Trade Area and the internal market. That's why FR can base planes in Norway, or fly anywhere within the EU/EFTA from Norway.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:59 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 10):
o, but it is bound by European Law as a member of the European Free Trade Area and the internal market. That's why FR can base planes in Norway, or fly anywhere within the EU/EFTA from Norway.

Switzerland takes part in that as well, however has a completely different customs regime.

Meaning that the air agreement between the EU and Iceland/Norway/Switzerland will not automatically transfer / make applicable labor laws as well.

It sounds nice that companies can do business in other EU countries but there's still a lot to observe, tax wise, labor laws, etc. The judges may rule different for ground staff than air crews.
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Someone83
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:21 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 2):
Isn't the question of what law is applicable to a contract in cross-border scenarios not covered by European law?

At least the Norwegian court seems to conclude that a contract for person living and working on Norwegian soil must follow Norwegian law, thus why they have decided to process this case.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:34 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 12):
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 2):
Isn't the question of what law is applicable to a contract in cross-border scenarios not covered by European law?

At least the Norwegian court seems to conclude that a contract for person living and working on Norwegian soil must follow Norwegian law, thus why they have decided to process this case.

Though if the guy has been caught stealing, Norwegian law or not, he still will get the sack. But the case sets another precedent that FR must obey local laws (even if the law in this case agrees with them) and that they are not a law upon themselves.
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Someone83
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:53 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Though if the guy has been caught stealing, Norwegian law or not, he still will get the sack

Off course, and it might even be that he was rightfully sacked. As you say, the case in itself is a minor thing, but it sets an important precedent  
 
LOWS
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
It sounds nice that companies can do business in other EU countries but there's still a lot to observe, tax wise, labor laws, etc. The judges may rule different for ground staff than air crews.

Of course. But if FR were to set up in VIE, for example, they would be bound by Austrian labour law. Just as I would expect them to be in any other EU country. They shouldn't be allowed to try and skirt around the law.
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:04 am

For those of you unfamilar with what EU, EFTA and EEA is, I suggest you take a look at this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area
 
PanHAM
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:18 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 15):
Of course. But if FR were to set up in VIE,

The thing is, they do not "set-up" usually but hide behind handling agents. Was this guy really working for Ryanair itself and is there a local company called "Ryanaor Norway" or a branch office of the Irish firm?

We discussd oin the other thrad that there is reallyno legal adress for FR other than their shabby HQ at Dublin Airport.

Now, we might have here a Hungarian who worked for an Irish company in Norway that officially does not exist in Norway.

BTW, this explains why FR does not serve Switzerland, they would have to establish a corporation chartered under Swiss law. EZY did that.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:02 pm

Deleted

Filler

Filler

[Edited 2012-09-26 05:03:33]
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PoianaMarco
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RE: Ryanair In Trouble In Norway

Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:33 pm

I personally dont see why they have to make such a big drama out of this small thing. Taking in concideration that FR are having WAY to serious problems/complains than this ''poor'' hungarian member just trying to make a few quid in plus, just beacuse the salary s**** and he descides to ´´steal´´ whatsoever.. I mean really, how low could you get?
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