tommy767
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Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:36 pm

Since the merger we've all noticed the ongoing crossfleeting at all the hubs. I think it's fascinating to note that some of the 757s (mainly PMUA) are on daily super short haul routings such as:

EWR-BOS
IAH-AUS
IAH-MSY
CLE-ORD

These routes are quite possibly the shortest for the 757 with the duration of all these examples being only 30-45 minutes long. IAH-AUS is only 30 minutes on the dot. Are there any other examples of this throughout the UA system? Do these routes print money for them with using the 757 and added capacity?
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ordbosewr
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:42 pm

PMUA used to run the 757 on many of these similar routes, like ORD-MSP. Heck I remember when PMUA used to run 757's from ORD-MKE!

It is all about capacity and frequency.
I consider IAH-AUS and MSP-ORD to very similar. Very large business travelers routes that are O&D or connection heavy.

Remember that PMUA had a number of 757's (one of the largest 757 fleets for all domestic service plus a few Hawaii and carribean destinations), so they would show up on a ton of routes.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:43 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
CLE-ORD

At one time DC-10s were common on CLE-ORD. In November 1979, 4 of UA's 7 daily CLE-ORD flights were DC-10s (plus 3 732s). NW also had one daily DC-10 (plus 4 727s).
 
compensateme
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:54 pm

UA still regularly operates 757 between DTW & ORD on its sole remaining mainline flight. Currently the 320 is scheduled, but the 757 will return in about two weeks; the flight transitions into the 739 during November.

ORD/DTW was one of the last routes to see DC-10 service; 763 were flown through 2001. Now the route is primarily regional jet.
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drerx7
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:40 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
IAH-AUS
IAH-MSY

Also IAH-SAT. Prior to the merger and CO 757s going transatlantic IAH saw CO 757s to MSY/SAT/AUS and MFE. Prior to that the AB3s were on IAH-MSY. IAH-MSY intermittantly has always been 757/753 domain, also of note IAH-MSY was always a common route to get subbed with 762/764 birds - much like IAH-DEN/MCO. Also since the merger there are alot of Houston travellers using AUS and backtracking back to IAH, as there can be some heavy price gouging going on down here...I've thought about making that 1:45-2:00 drive myself to save $300+.
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N62NA
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:43 pm

SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind. Probably takes longer to get the passengers on / off the plane (assuming it's full) than the flight itself!
 
roseflyer
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:44 pm

Almost any narrowbody route on PMUA could have been a 757. They did not favor the A320 or A319 over the 757 for any shorter domestic routes. Every airplane could do every route over the lower 48 for the most part. The 737s used to be favored for short routes, but those mostly got replaced by Embraer 170s and CRJ-700s. The routes that were left mainline could see any narrowbody type. PMUA was just under 100 757s, so that is a lot of airplanes and for fleet utilization, sometimes it made sense to have them on very short routes.
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tommy767
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 4):

Oh true you are correct. 1x 757 is flying IAH-SAT this saturday.

Interesting to note that IAH-SAT/AUS/MSY get 757s but it's mostly rj's on IAH-DFW (huge business routing.)
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drerx7
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 7):
but it's mostly rj's on IAH-DFW (huge business routing.)

Very interesting to note...but then again you have NK/WN/AA/UA all on IAH/HOU - DFW/DAL. WN has flights at peak times every 30 minutes.

I went to college in New Orleans and always loved flying home to Houston on CO 752s and 753s.
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DocLightning
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 1):

PMUA used to run the 757 on many of these similar routes, like ORD-MSP. Heck I remember when PMUA used to run 757's from ORD-MKE!

Admittedly hub-to-hub, but NW used to use DC-10's and 753's on MSP-DTW, which is about a 1.5 hour flight.

UA uses 757's on LAX-SFO, which is only about 50 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down.
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Viscount724
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Admittedly hub-to-hub, but NW used to use DC-10's and 753's on MSP-DTW, which is about a 1.5 hour flight.
NW also used 747s MSP-DTW. In November 1979 they had 2 daily 747s and 2 daily DC-10s on the route. Both of the 747s continued to JFK.

[Edited 2012-09-27 15:27:32]
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:42 pm

NW's OGG-KOA segment on the 753 comes to mind as a short haul. I was going to say SFO-MRY but someone already beat me to it.

Bottom line is the 757 is a very versatile airplane that can do almost anything.
 
neveragain
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Quoting tommy767 (Thread starter):
Are there any other examples of this throughout the UA system? Do these routes print money for them with using the 757 and added capacity?

What added capacity? The ex-UA 757-200s has only 9 more seats than a 737-900, about a 5% difference. In any case, total seat capacity year-over-year on the IAH routes cited is down in all markets for September:

AUS: -12%

MSY: -3%

SAT: -4%
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:06 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind.

Which days of the week? I only see EMB-120s in the near-term schedule.

(While looking this up, I noticed the cheapest seat next week coming in at $731 one-way.  Wow! I remember flying this route on a 732 in the early 70s. The First Class fare was something ridiculously cheap like $11 or something. My sister and I were the only pax up front, LOL.)
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CO777DAL
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:16 pm

PMCO flew 757s (752/753s) between IAH/ AUS/SAT/MSY and even 764 to MSY/MCO at times. I flew on all of them on those routes in the past.

Here are some vids.

SAT CO 757-300 Landing in San Antonio
http://youtu.be/A3TKiQttRg4

SAT CO 757-200 Take-off San Antonio BusinessFirst Cabin
http://youtu.be/9PuxCE5AkQQ

MSY CO 757-300 Landing New Orleans
http://youtu.be/xLWkfIJD1DA

Another amazing thing I notice, is if the weather was good Continental Flight Attendants did Beverage service between IAH and AUS. I had full beverage service with alcohol on a 737-900 flight between IAH/AUS in coach. They really rushed! Coach cabin clapped at the end. I doubt the New UA would do it as I notice we don't get beverage service on any Skywest flight from DAL to IAH in coach and the New UA always says if time permitting on the website, but beverage service was standard on old CO.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 7):
Interesting to note that IAH-SAT/AUS/MSY get 757s but it's mostly rj's on IAH-DFW (huge business routing.)

Remember UA has to split Dallas traffic between DFW/DAL. Today there were 16 flights between the 2 airports today. (frequency over plane size) Also in the past for a few years DAL-IAH was the number one route in terms of frequency. CO use to offer 16 flights a day between DAL and IAH alone. (When they had the ERJ-135s 10 ER4/6 ER3). There was a flight every 30 mins for the morning and evening rush at DAL.
Together DAL/DFW was 26 to 28 flights a day from IAH and was number one in frequency in the system for years.
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tommy767
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:21 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):

UA uses 757's on LAX-SFO, which is only about 50 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down.

757s have been on LAX-SFO for many years. In fact, EWR-BOS, IAH-AUS, and IAH-MSY are all shorter than LAX-SFO.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
I was going to say SFO-MRY but someone already beat me to it.

When does the 757 operate SFO-MRY? I'm only seeing 120s in the schedule.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind.

Which days of the week? I only see EMB-120s in the near-term schedule.

UA hasn't done this for several years now. They no longer fly mainline into MRY. Boeing even used SFO-MRY as an example of the 757's versatility. You know, it does the longer North Atlantic routes, and then this 80 mile route equally well.
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:23 pm

Still see UA 757's on ORD GRR sometimes too

-m

  
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:25 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 16):
UA hasn't done this for several years now.

That's what I thought. It seemed from the OP that this thread was for current 752 short routes in the schedule, not historic routes.
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drerx7
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:27 pm

Also back in the past DL use to slip in a 757 on the evening or first flight out on IAH-DFW.
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zippyjet
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:43 pm

Doesn't UA have a short haul 757 flight to ELI (Eli. Nevada?)
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N62NA
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:45 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
That's what I thought. It seemed from the OP that this thread was for current 752 short routes in the schedule, not historic routes.

Oops! But I could have sworn I saw a 752 in the schedule for that route within the past 12 months.
 
mcg
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
NW also used 747s MSP-DTW.

Way back in the day NW operated 747's MSP - ORD.
 
planeguy727
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:50 am

Many airlines used the 757 on very short routes. I flew one BHM-ATL (DL).
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codc10
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:05 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 20):
Doesn't UA have a short haul 757 flight to ELI (Eli. Nevada?)

Ely, NV can barely sustain Great Lakes BE1 service to LAS. A single 757 flight would provide seats for about 75% of ELY's yearly enplanements.
 
tommy767
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:20 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 24):

No but UA does fly 757s on DEN-JAC which is another "super" short flight.

Also LAX-LAS gets a 757 too, on occasion.
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TWA772LR
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:28 am

Wish those 757s would be my ride home from DFW to IAH. Doesn't UA fly 75's on SNA-SFO?
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:45 am

duplicate post

duplicate post

[Edited 2012-09-27 20:50:40]
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:47 am

EWR-BOS clocks in at 199 miles. Most of the scheduled time is probably waiting to take off in EWR traffic jams  
 
widget1580
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:07 am

Let's not forget ORD-DSM. I believe it was a daily visitor there for a while, IIRC.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:34 am

Man if they use the 757 on such short routes I should be able to look at it in GFK pretty soon  (kidding of course).
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DocLightning
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:54 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 15):
757s have been on LAX-SFO for many years. In fact, EWR-BOS, IAH-AUS, and IAH-MSY are all shorter than LAX-SFO.

I know they're shorter, but LAX-SFO is about 12% of the 757's max range. It's always struck me as an awful lot of airplane to put on that route. But then again, they have the 757's and they have to use them somewhere.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
NW also used 747s MSP-DTW. In November 1979 they had 2 daily 747s and 2 daily DC-10s on the route. Both of the 747s continued to JFK.

Yes, but that was in the immediate post-deregulation era when airlines still had enormous planes left over from the frequency restrictions, so, like their 757's, they had to use them somewhere.

In 2004, I flew DTW-MSP on a 753. On the way there, it was empty. I sat in the very front of Y and listened to the engines roar. Lovely. On the way back it was full and I sat in the back. Not lovely. It took 35 minutes to deplane after they'd opened the door. By the time it was over, I was ready to chew nails...
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SJCMSP
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:10 pm

I know this is historic, but I remember flying IND-ORD a few times on a UA 757 back around 2000. The shortest 757 flight I've had semi-lately was JAX-ATL on DL.
 
crownvic
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:37 pm

What about the dozens of widebodies between MIA and FLL in the 70's...25 miles...
 
ordbosewr
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:42 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 28):
EWR-BOS clocks in at 199 miles. Most of the scheduled time is probably waiting to take off in EWR traffic jams  

BOS is no cake walk!!!

This whole thread is kindda funny. We are questioning using a 757 on these short routes. In Japan they use 747's on similar length routes.

So everything is in perspective.

Shortest 747 Route? (by LAX Dec 24 2000 in Civil Aviation)

DatamanA340 From South Korea, joined Dec 2000, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted Thu Dec 28 2000 11:15:37 your local time (11 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

JAL : Narita-Nagoya flt.53/54 about 170 miles.
Haneda-Kanazawa, 221 miles.
KAL : Seoul-Cheju about 270 miles.

Well, some more?
 
cschleic
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
SFO-MRY-SFO comes to mind. Probably takes longer to get the passengers on / off the plane (assuming it's full) than the flight itself!
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Which days of the week? I only see EMB-120s in the near-term schedule.

Back in the day, as they say. Many many years ago when they still flew mainline to MRY. It's all of 64 miles or so.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:20 pm

we recently wrote about L10 and AB3 (EA) on YYZ-BUF. I have been, same airline, on a widebody FLL-MIA (not local but coming from somewhere up north). Or MIA-MCO in a D10 National Sunbird.

Or a WA 720 SFO-RNO , Plenty of more examples. Those few short haul flights by larger jets today are nothing to what went on in the 70s and 80s.
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United_fan
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:38 pm

PMCO used the 757-300 IAH-AUS. I have flown SFO-SNA on PMUA 752.
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MountainFlyer
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:59 pm

One short DL 757 flight that I can think of is SLC-BOI in the summer.
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:09 pm

Quoting United_fan (Reply 37):
PMCO used the 757-300 IAH-AUS.

A few years ago, NW used the 757-300 MSP-MKE pretty regularly. I always figured by the time the main gear was off the ground in MSP, the nose gear was touching down in MKE  
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jwhite9185
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:15 pm

Maybe slightly OT but I'm booked on an AA 752 in April next year from MCO to MIA. Book time is an hour but no doubt will be much less.
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 40):
Maybe slightly OT but I'm booked on an AA 752 in April next year from MCO to MIA. Book time is an hour but no doubt will be much less.

That's a quick one   I flew MCO-MIA on AA once on an A300.
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EMB170
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:17 pm

Quoting SJCMSP (Reply 32):
I know this is historic, but I remember flying IND-ORD a few times on a UA 757 back around 2000. The shortest 757 flight I've had semi-lately was JAX-ATL on DL.

Yes. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s, UA routinely flew 757-200s and 767-300ERs on ORD-IND. 757s also flew IND-DEN as well.

For their part, NW often flew 757s on IND-DTW and IND-MSP. For many years, the first flight of the morning on IND-MSP was a 753!
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
SJCMSP
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:44 pm

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 42):

Come to think of it, I recall flying TW 757s IND-STL a couple of times as well during that same time period.

[Edited 2012-09-28 08:45:01]
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Admittedly hub-to-hub, but NW used to use DC-10's and 753's on MSP-DTW, which is about a 1.5 hour flight.

Even better. Those planes from both MSP and DTW to MKE. About 50 minutes to MSP and about 45 to DTW. The 752/3 only in the past year have become less frequent into MKE. They were the majority of flights to MSP in the PMNW days.
 
tommy767
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
BOS is no cake walk!!!

EWR-BOS has the business traffic to fill up on the 757 and also likely lots of connections via the EWR hub. It's interesting how sometimes the 757 will make an appearance on EWR-BOS during non peak hours such as 10pm on a Saturday night. Amazingly by checking the seat maps the loads aren't that terrible off peak either.
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ABQopsHP
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
BOS is no cake walk!!!

EWR-BOS has the business traffic to fill up on the 757 and also likely lots of connections via the EWR hub. It's interesting how sometimes the 757 will make an appearance on EWR-BOS during non peak hours such as 10pm on a Saturday night. Amazingly by checking the seat maps the loads aren't that terrible off peak either.

Am I not mistaking that EA flew the A300 on the BOS-LGA shuttle?

Also HP used to fly the 757s PHX-LAS, and LAS-LAX as well.

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brucek
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 34):
This whole thread is kindda funny. We are questioning using a 757 on these short routes. In Japan they use 747's on similar length routes.

Interesting thread. It's amazing how often the venerable B75 comes up in discussion, has to be almost the most talked about aircraft...

I assume that in comparing the efficiency of a/c that the flight time is relevant, as no doubt the climb/take off performance comparisons are different to cruise and descent, and varying flight times will have different proportionate mixes of those phases of flight. For typical flights as discussed in this thread which are all short, and the 9 seat difference between a B752 and 739, which of those two aircraft are beter from an efficiency perspective over these short routes, and how much are we talkijg about on avaregae (assuming full flights and the current cost of fuel)?

Thanks, Bruce.
 
LRGT
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:44 pm

s-UA 757's are domestic configured. These are the airplanes on all these new routes (flight #'s between 201-999)

s-CO flights are those with flight numbers 1-201, and 1000-1999. Any domestic 757 flights on s-CO equipment with these flight #'s are just to keep the aircraft busy between Europe flights, or repositioning them for MX.
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tommy767
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RE: Super Short Haul Routings With UA 752's

Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting lrgt (Reply 48):

As of recently the ex-co 757s have been on more domestic routes:

EWR-ORD
IAD-LAX
ORD-LAX
EWR-DEN
EWR-LAX
EWR-SFO
EWR-MIA
EWR-TPA
EWR-MCO

I think the shortest ex-CO route is EWR-ORD
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