Baexecutive
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Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:18 pm

I've been hearing rumours from several sources that BA is planning to announce something big next month, I heard it affects Mixed Fleet and possibly Gatwick....anyone know anything or have any thoughts?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:21 pm

Are you sure it's not this? Rumor: QR To Join OneWorld? (by DFWHeavy Sep 27 2012 in Civil Aviation)
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:29 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 1):

No it's something internal to BA
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:47 pm

Entirely speculation on my part:

- Route announcements for initial 787's and A380's. (BA said it was coming "later this year")

- Replacement of the Gatwick s/h fleet

- Outside chance: Launch customer of the 787-10 (rumor is Boeing is getting ATO next month)


Regards,

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:11 pm

My guess, based on one conversation, no more:

- A319 to roll over the LGW 737 prehistorics, on condition further significant savings are agreed to first. Without agreement, BA will claim LGW short haul is no longer viable. That's a huge bear to place in the room as a negotiating tool.

- A320neo family order for LHR, including some A321neos in the mid haul config for expansion of thin routes.

- I've often wondered whether some 787s might be going to the beach fleet at LGW, sending the 772s back to LHR. The smaller size and better economics seem ideal to create a better revenue stream throughout the year. There is no doubt the 772 is way too much aircraft for some of the LGW routes in low season.

Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
jfk777
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 4):
I've often wondered whether some 787s might be going to the beach fleet at LGW, sending the 772s back to LHR. The smaller size and better economics seem ideal to create a better revenue stream throughout the year. There is no doubt the 772 is way too much aircraft for some of the LGW routes in low season

Doubtful they are going to do 787 at Gatwick and the "beach fleet". BA has 767 that can do that mission. 787 will be for LHR to cities where the 777 or a 744 are too big, cities like Bangkok, Phoenix, San Diego, Seoul and Buenos Aires.
 
kaitak
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 4):
A319 to roll over the LGW 737 prehistorics, on condition further significant savings are agreed to first. Without agreement, BA will claim LGW short haul is no longer viable. That's a huge bear to place in the room as a negotiating tool

Frankly, I think they are past that stage; they have a 15% stake in Flybe, which has a good presence at LGW. If I were to predict something, I'd say that they would close down the BA short haul operation at LGW, ground the 734s and BE would cherry pick the routes that they and BA want to keep going, with BA codesharing on BE flights.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
Frankly, I think they are past that stage; they have a 15% stake in Flybe, which has a good presence at LGW. If I were to predict something, I'd say that they would close down the BA short haul operation at LGW, ground the 734s and BE would cherry pick the routes that they and BA want to keep going, with BA codesharing on BE flights.
Has a good presence, FlyBe's future at LGW is not at all certain. GIP have indicated that they want to see average aircraft size increase (IIRC by eliminating sub 100 seaters) and have already made some considerable changes to their pricing structure to facilitate this. Coupled with competition from easyJet on the fatter domestic routes, I think a sizable contraction of their operations at LGW can be expected.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:54 pm

Flybe's Embraers have neither the uplift capacity or range to compete against EZY, so that's a total non-runner. To hand their LGW shorthaul to Flybe would merely be delaying the closure of LGW shorthaul.....though I am sure they are paying very close attention to the Flybe / Finnair deal to see how it works out.

BA have already previously said some years ago that the 767s were not suitable for their LGW beach operations. With today's cost of fuel, it makes the possibility of the 767s going to LGW even more unlikely.

Remember also that Thomson, probably their main long haul competitor out of LGW, are rolling over their own 763 fleet for Dreamliners. I can't see BA giving them the marketing gem of downgrading to an aircraft their main competitor is ditching, can you?

Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:18 pm

The 787s are ear-marked for long-haul expansion at LHR (IAG has said that Asia is a major priority for growth) and I don't think we'll see the cost of another aircraft type at LGW.

No decision has been made on fleet renewal at LGW. Although question marks are hanging over the operation, I think IAG would rather find a solution for BA to keep its presence at LGW than give up entirely.

As for Mixed Fleet and LGW cabin crew, well earlier this year LGW cabin crew voted against proposals to change their T&Cs to bring them into line with Mixed Fleet. I wonder whether BA wants to merge the two to give the efficiency of cross base working.
 
by738
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
787 will be for LHR to cities where the 777 or a 744 are too big, cities like Bangkok, Phoenix

Phoenix 787? Recently upgraded to daily and with a 747- can't see that going down to 787. Would be surprised with current loads to see SAN go down to a 787
 
theobcman
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):

787 is probably too small for those routes. PHX has gone to daily 744 & BKK is full most of time with a 744. ICN maybe
 
kaitak
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting theobcman (Reply 11):
787 is probably too small for those routes. PHX has gone to daily 744 & BKK is full most of time with a 744. ICN maybe

I agree; I'm actually very curious to see what kind of config the 787 will have in BA use; with four classes, you might end up with a pretty small number, maybe 150-180, depending on how many J class. I could see it being used on routes where there is a strong J class demand.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 12):
I agree; I'm actually very curious to see what kind of config the 787 will have in BA use; with four classes

The B787-800 will be three classes, no F.
They will replace B767 on present B767 routes with a modest increase in seats over the B767.
 
BA174
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:32 pm

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 2):

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 1):

No it's something internal to BA


Gatwick is now a standalone division in BA and even has its own MD so I doubt any part of it will be merging with anything LHR based.

Is it not related to QR or US?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:46 pm

I don't know where the 787 is going to fit. None of the above - PHX is a 747, SAN is comfortably a 777, and ICN will comfortably be a 777 (Koreanair run a daily 747 to London and it will go A380). I think the Dreamliner is too small - maybe it's OK for Ethiopian, LOT et al to replace 757s and 767s, but I'm not sure where BA will use it, since LHR is so slot-restricted. Plus fuel is going to get more expensive so frequency will not be an economic option in the future. In fact that's where I would see a 787 working for BA - do we need seven roundtrips to Geneva? With $200 / barrel oil in the future, I would think four 787s would give BA a chance at making money that seven A319s, A320s does not.

What longhaul routes would work for BA with 787? Baltimore and Montreal are the only ones I can think of!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
dergay
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:59 pm

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that we rustics could dream about the dreamliner - e.g. could it serve BHX, MAN, EDI or even GOW for any routes? Let's remember - there is life (and passengers) outside the capital!
Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):
I think the Dreamliner is too small - maybe it's OK for Ethiopian, LOT et al to replace 757s and 767s, but I'm not sure where BA will use it, since LHR is so slot-restricted.

IAG has just bought bmi. It has more slots at LHR than it knows what to do with. The 787 will replace 767 long-haul routes and fill gaps in the long-haul network (of which there are many).

The 787 will not be used for short-haul.

Quoting dergay (Reply 16):
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that we rustics could dream about the dreamliner - e.g. could it serve BHX, MAN, EDI or even GOW for any routes? Let's remember - there is life (and passengers) outside the capital!

Not a chance of BA restarting long-haul from the regions in the medium term.
 
bamf777
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:17 pm

I think that the original post was more to do with an announcement with regards to the cabin crew fleets rather than aircraft fleets. Word of "a big announcement after the Olympics" has been going around for a good few months now but there are plenty of 'crewmours' (as we like to call them) flying around.

A few things rumoured are the downsize of Worldwide and Eurofleet with redundancies and mass expansion of Mixed Fleet. Also redundancies and then integration of fleets.
Nobody seems to know but there is a strange atmosphere like something is up.

Interesting times ahead at BA.....
The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent British Airways’ positions, strategies or opinions
 
David_itl
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 17):
Not a chance of BA restarting long-haul from the regions in the medium term.

But expect more in the short-term from those with whom BA now has a close business interest in. BA's own "metal" stand-alone routes would be subject to the normal beancounters feat of rendering regional operations unprofitable and some people commenting that BA does the right thimg by swinging passengers away from the regional service onto the LHR equivalent
 
jfk777
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 8):
BA have already previously said some years ago that the 767s were not suitable for their LGW beach operations. With today's cost of fuel, it makes the possibility of the 767s going to LGW even more unlikely.

How can BA's 767 not be suitable for the Caribean and Florida, many 767 fly from London to the US east coast and the islands. They may need to have some Club World seats taken out and more economy pit in but other then that they should be good to go. Or are BA's 767 withines Rolls engines allegic to the tropical air ?
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting bamf777 (Reply 18):

I totally agree, if I hear any more FC hinting to an announcement but not actually saying what it' is (probably because they don't know themselves) I'll scream lol.

I've heard MF and SFG Gatwick are to merge with per 2006 contracts being offered £££ then put on 2010 contract!
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):

When was the last time you flew on a 777 out of Gatwick? EVERY flight has been packed lately with certain routes requiring x2 777 daily service in the summer months (Orlando), the 76 doesn't have First which rules out BDA/BGI & UVF also does the 76 have the range to fly MRU?

Crew are rated on three types already, 737, 777 & Airbus therefore I doubt very much that the 767 will be seen at LGW.
 
GSTBA
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:31 pm

Quoting theobcman (Reply 11):
787 is probably too small for those routes. PHX has gone to daily 744 & BKK is full most of time with a 744. ICN maybe

Yields and loads in F, J & W have been dropped considerably since the BKK became a terminator. With this in mind I think what we will see is the 3 class 777 on the EZE or GIG replaced by a 787 with the 3 class 777's being moved onto the BKK route.
 
PHX787
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 3):
- Outside chance: Launch customer of the 787-10 (rumor is Boeing is getting ATO next month)

Would BA order it? what routes could it serve ?

Quoting by738 (Reply 10):
Phoenix 787? Recently upgraded to daily and with a 747- can't see that going down to 787. Would be surprised with current loads to see SAN go down to a 787

Yeah PHX is going to stay a 744 route until they retire the 744. If PHX upgrades its international service/gates, we may see the A380 or (far chance but still chance) 748. If anything, it's probably going to be 77W. This flight is reportedly always full.

While I'd love to see a 787 in Phoenix (       ) I don't think I would like to see BA down-gauge their B744.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
anstar
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 21):
I've heard MF and SFG Gatwick are to merge with per 2006 contracts being offered £££ then put on 2010 contract!

Mixed fleet to operate LHR and LGW as a single fleet (ie like what Virgin do) OR Mixed fleet T's & C's are imposed at LGW for LGW flights?
 
bamf777
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:58 am

From what is happening with the 'Our Voice' discussions within MF at the moment, it seems there is similar contract 'conditions' between MF and SFG. MF crew are fighting for Unite union repesentation at the moment to get some of the 'Our Voice' practices set in stone in contracts.

As I said before there will be some very interesting times ahead as the industry changes, but it's already shown in the financial results that after a year of Mixed Fleet operating BA has made a profit. I can't say I've heard much with regards to MF and SFG merging and with friend down at LGW they haven't heard anything either.
As they say, there's no smoke without fire but in the aviation industry we all know that can change to
The postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent British Airways’ positions, strategies or opinions
 
qf002
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):

Asia is a big place, and there are a lot of secondary cities in this region that would do well with an F-less 200ish seat aircraft.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 24):
Would BA order it? what routes could it serve ?

The 787-10 would be an excellent replacement for 744's flying across the Atlantic, and potentially flights to the Middle East and Africa as well.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:23 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 3):
Replacement of the Gatwick s/h fleet

That one's been going on as a discussion on here for about 10 years!
 
APYu
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:46 am

It would be madness to suggest merging LGW and Mixed Fleet. Why would any crew member on such lowly paid employment terms and conditions (as both those groups are) accept such a massive change to working conditions i.e.working from both bases.

It worked for virgin as it was implemented at a time the airline was still quite small and also VS is a long haul only operator. Can you see any BA crew member checking in at one base, to be bussed to the other, to operate a Manchester there and back? Would anyone be that desperate for a job?

Maybe they will announce a withdrawal from LGW Short Haul to work with a partner airline and a huge number of LGW crew will be offered the similar mixed fleet contract up the road to minimise redundancies and the massively ramp up Mixed Fleet numbers? but then again I doubt it as they are just doing a management shake-up at LGW and surely they had a pretty stable view of the 'to be'organisation before they did that (one would hope)

[Edited 2012-10-01 00:50:04]
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
runway23
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:24 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 15):
Plus fuel is going to get more expensive so frequency will not be an economic option in the future. In fact that's where I would see a 787 working for BA - do we need seven roundtrips to Geneva? With $200 / barrel oil in the future, I would think four 787s would give BA a chance at making money that seven A319s, A320s does not.

It is actually 9 daily on LHR-GVA. But yes they need frequency. GVA-LHR is a high yield route with a large proportion of people transferring to long-haul flights and those who fly point to point are high yield (bank, commodities traffic between the two cities). I have on a number of occasions been on GVA-LHR flights with 17 rows of Club Europe. Weekends during the winter also need high uplift due to ski season.

Any decrease in frequency from BA and they lose a competitive advantage at LHR against LX who fly GVA-LHR 6x per day and GVA-LCY 5x per day. You also have to remember that all other airlines fly very high frequencies to their respective hubs from GVA - LH 10x to FRA, 7x to MUC, AF 9x to CDG, LX 8x to ZRH, KL 6x to AMS,
 
Liverpoola380
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:57 am

Routing from the regions would be excellent news.

I have a strong feeling it will be a cost reduction exercise and that it will be focused on Cabin Crew
 
sirtoby
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:20 pm

Quoting Blueshamu330s (Reply 4):
- A319 to roll over the LGW 737 prehistorics

What about the CSeries?
 
vv701
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:54 pm

What surprises me most about this thread is that with the operational integration of BD into BA due to take place on 28 October (until which time the former BD operations and timetables have hardly changed since BD were purchased by IAG in April) this reply is the first to mention "BD" in this thread. Surely for BA that integration and the changes it will bring about short-, medium- and long-term is the most important event of the year for BA?

Any thoughts?
 
tonystan
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:50 am

If this "annoucement" is about to happen then Im pretty sure it wont involve cabin crew as they company seem to caught up right now in how to reduce the WW/EF downroute allowances!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
APYu
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:00 am

Closure of international bases to speed up the transfer of the more expensive WW routes to MF (SIN/HKG/NRT etc.)???????
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
Liverpoola380
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting APYu (Reply 35):
Closure of international bases to speed up the transfer of the more expensive WW routes to MF (SIN/HKG/NRT etc.)???????

Do you think BA is not looking to move away from this prestige of having native crew on board, surely this is what attracts premium passengers.

I can see it will save cost but I am not sure this will happen.

On a side note do MF have pay rises to their basic salary or will it always be very low paid if so I can see BA's next issue will be with attrition.
 
APYu
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:40 am

Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 36):
Do you think BA is not looking to move away from this prestige of having native crew on board, surely this is what attracts premium passengers.

I can see it will save cost but I am not sure this will happen

If BA have confidence enough in their products then it coulld happen. It does add a lot of cost to the operation. I guess we will see with what happens in Cairo with the change to the A321 ops there and what changes are made to their operating practices.

If Native crew are not up there in the top three reasons people chose BA then it might be considered an expensive nice to have - as the Virgin In Flight Beauty therapists discovered.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:46 am

BA recruited Japanese speaking crew in London for the Haneda route (operated by Mixed Fleet) and is recruiting Korean speaking crew in London to operate the Seoul route (also to be operated by Mixed Fleet) so there is still knowledge of the local language and customs on board.
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:47 am

I wish it was an anouncement of them comming back to Melbourne, oh well nice to dream.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:51 am

Quoting APYu (Reply 29):
It worked for virgin as it was implemented at a time the airline was still quite small and also VS is a long haul only operator. Can you see any BA crew member checking in at one base, to be bussed to the other, to operate a Manchester there and back? Would anyone be that desperate for a job?

Why wouldn't they ? Being paid to sit in bus driving round the M25 is probably better than working an aisle serving ungrateful passengers.

What I wouldn't expect crew to stand for is being told to report to an alternative base in their own time at their own expense.
 
APYu
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:09 pm

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 40):


Why wouldn't they ? Being paid to sit in bus driving round the M25 is probably better than working an aisle serving ungrateful passengers.

What I wouldn't expect crew to stand for is being told to report to an alternative base in their own time at their own expense.

Exactly my point, being dual based virgin crews aren't paid to sit on that bus, they are paid from when they report for the flight, be that at LHR or LGW. They can choose one or the other to have their car park pass but arent paid from when they report to that base if their duty is operating from the other.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
SANFan
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:04 pm

I wouldn't be too surprised if BA were to announce a couple of new routes (including perhaps a new US city?) using the 787s - smaller, thinner markets that haven't been considered until now. I'll let others jump in with their ideas about which new cities. (I will add that SAN was the last new U.S.-city announcement -- made just about exactly 2 years ago now!)

bb
 
ANA787
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:28 pm

Potential 787 routes: PDX, SCL, YYC
 
richardw
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:28 pm

Is it LGW-ALC for summer 2013?
 
vv701
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 44):
Is it LGW-ALC for summer 2013?

Already announced last month.

Seventeen weekly flights from 31 March with an additional four a week from 1 July.
 
USAirALB
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:34 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 42):
(including perhaps a new US city?)

DTW or CLT?

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 43):
PDX,

That's an interesting one. I'm sure the LON market is there, but is there room for two European flights from PDX? I know it was hard for DL and LH to compete with each other.
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stratacruiser
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:40 pm

Perhaps the 787s will also be used to expand frequencies on current routes, much as UA slots 757s 4x daily EWR-LHR. Maybe an evening WB, morning EB to IAD or EWR?
 
Eljonno
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 39):
I wish it was an anouncement of them comming back to Melbourne, oh well nice to dream.

As do I. Maybe throw in a daily SIN-BNE or ADL as well... Not going to happen though!
 
bobnwa
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RE: Big Announcement From BA In October?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:44 am

Is this going to be another Anet pre announcement about a future announcement that never seem to happen?

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