Hawaiian763
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Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:20 pm

http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=583

Basic highlights of their plan for international growth include:

-Adding 2 more B77W's to their mainline fleet with new international routes to be announced at a later date

-Hire 900 more employees as part of their plans to start its new low cost leisure airline (announced on Sept 20, 2012)

-Transferring 15 of their E175's to Sky Regional, which will operate them under the AC Express name starting in February 2013


Quite some interesting times going on at Air Canada, quite curious to see how this new low cost airline of theirs will do.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:42 pm

Sounds pretty interesting. Where are the 777s coming from?
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:45 pm

Will be interesting to see what happens when the E75s leave the fleet. Under the government imposed contract there was a ratio of 29:100 ASMs from any regional carrier to mainline in the North American market. I was always under the impression that they were really close to that already so it would have been hard to get ride of the airplanes too quickly. I guess that's assuming AC plans to follow through and follow the contract that was put into place at the end of July.
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ZBBYLW
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 1):

Boeing. AC has some on order.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
AF086
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:48 pm

Any best guesses of where AC will begin services? In South America, I'd say that GIG would be the favourite contender given that GRU, EZE and SCL already see AC service.

No need to mention Rio's strong economic ties with Canada. There are based in the city companies like Vale (Inco), Bank of Montreal, Brookfield, Gran Tierra Energy and the National Bank of Canada. Also the strong economical situation of the city also makes it more attractive.

Perhaps 3/4x weekly services with the 763. But for that I guess that AC would need to deploy the 777 elsewhere to release a 767 to fly the route.

[Edited 2012-10-01 06:48:58]
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ZBBYLW
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:03 pm

It would be more of a 787 route but I could see AC start CAN 3-4 days a week fall of 2013. They are expecting 787s Q1 2014 so after an initial go it could transfer to a 7 day a week 787 flight a few months after AC takes on the 787s.

In Europe FRA would be the obvious destination for 77Ws with cargo. It seems there is 1 77Ws out of YUL and 2 77Ws YYZ per day in October. Last time I flew this route it was on a 767 so perhaps make this year round. I am not sure if it could make it with a good load of freight but YYZ-PVG is a 77L right now, perhaps upgrade that and you have a 77L you could use on an extra flight down to SYD or you could also look at opening up GIG with the 77L (freight could make it worth while in a 77L vs 767.
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c172akula
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:54 pm

Any chance with this announcement that YYC could keep the 77W on LHR year round (summer upguage only currently)?
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 6):
Any chance with this announcement that YYC could keep the 77W on LHR year round (summer upguage only currently)?

Doubt that....They are running 767 this winter!
 
connies4ever
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:25 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 3):
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 1):

Boeing. AC has some on order.

I had thought there were 3 77Ws currently on firm order....

Quoting AF086 (Reply 4):
Any best guesses of where AC will begin services? In South America, I'd say that GIG would be the favourite contender given that GRU, EZE and SCL already see AC service.
Quoting AF086 (Reply 4):
Perhaps 3/4x weekly services with the 763. But for that I guess that AC would need to deploy the 777 elsewhere to release a 767 to fly the route.

   I'd agree GIG would likely start as a 763 service and would likely transition to 788 when they start coming. During the soccer World Cup in 2014 and the Olys in 2016, 77W upgauge seems likely.

If there is to be additional 77W service to either FRA or LHR, releasing a 763, might this get redeployed to open up MEL ? Would have to be via HNL I suppose. Or maybe CAN, although CZ are already doing CAN - YVR 5x weekly. Or maybe the 763 goes back to lessor.
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Hawaiian763
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 8):
If there is to be additional 77W service to either FRA or LHR, releasing a 763, might this get redeployed to open up MEL ? Would have to be via HNL I suppose.

Wouldn't it be more favorable for AC to use a 77L on this routing? I'd much rather have non-stop flight to MEL than have to make a stopover in HNL
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it be more favorable for AC to use a 77L on this routing? I'd much rather have non-stop flight to MEL than have to make a stopover in HNL

I think it would depend if the traffic were there. With a stop in HNL, does AC still not have Fifth Freedom rights between HNL and Australia?
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chrisa330
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 8):
I had thought there were 3 77Ws currently on firm order....

The order was expanded - there are a total of 5 on order.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:59 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it be more favorable for AC to use a 77L on this routing? I'd much rather have non-stop flight to MEL than have to make a stopover in HNL

I think it would depend if the traffic were there. With a stop in HNL, does AC still not have Fifth Freedom rights between HNL and Australia?

I don't think the traffic is there for MEL unfortunately  . Perhaps they could do a tag-on to MEL like UA does but that tag on covers both flights to LAX and SFO.

If AC wants to add in another route in Oceania I would say AKL is the one to do because it opens up NZ and can add frequency to New Zealand. Also with NZ being in *A they can access more Australian cities with a very easy transfer process in AKL.

Run a 3x weekly service to AKL on the days NZ doesn't.
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connies4ever
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:00 pm

Quoting chrisa330 (Reply 11):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 8):
I had thought there were 3 77Ws currently on firm order....

The order was expanded - there are a total of 5 on order.

Hmmm....I'd then make a guess that the "extra" 77Ws will replace 763s in the fleet. There can't be that many more destinations where AC would be using 77Ws. I think most new int'l destinations are more likely to be 788 routes: BEY, IST, GIG (ultimately), MEL, KIX (again), maybe MNL. Also maybe something direct ex-YUL. SIN occurs to me but there still isn't, I think, a strong natural market. Also, it's far enough that I'm not sure it can be reached n/s from YVR, needs a stop at INC which would require even more negotiation.

As for the 763 I previously referred to as being released, maybe YYZ-SVO ??
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flyb
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 7):
Quoting C172Akula (Reply 6):
Any chance with this announcement that YYC could keep the 77W on LHR year round (summer upguage only currently)?

Doubt that....They are running 767 this winter!

I don't see why they wouldn't. If AC is trying to grow internationally they are going to try to grow traffic through their hubs. With YYC being an official hub I could see AC 77W year round, and moving the 767 to the discount carrier
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting flyb (Reply 14):
I don't see why they wouldn't. If AC is trying to grow internationally they are going to try to grow traffic through their hubs. With YYC being an official hub I could see AC 77W year round, and moving the 767 to the discount carrier

I see them running the 777 to FRA rather than LHR from YYC and switching the LHR run to the 333
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:46 pm

Quoting chrisa330 (Reply 11):
The order was expanded - there are a total of 5 on order.

According to aerotransport.org, 2 for delivery in 2013 (as mentioned in the AC PR) and the other 3 in 2014.

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Thread starter):
Transferring 15 of their E175's to Sky Regional, which will operate them under the AC Express name starting in February 2013

Presumably there was a bidding process betw Sky Regional & Jazz and perhaps other interested carriers?
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Kaiarahi
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:50 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
With a stop in HNL, does AC still not have Fifth Freedom rights between HNL and Australia?

Yes, along with SFO, NAN and PPT. Given that QF has left SFO, YYZ-SFO-SYD would make more sense than HNL, which didn't work for CP or AC. The competition on SFO-SYD is UA's clapped out 744s, or NZ via AKL.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 12):
Perhaps they could do a tag-on to MEL like UA does

Under the bilateral, Australian government permission would be required. If permission were granted and SFO-SYD started, a tag to MEL would feed both the YVR and SFO flights.
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multimark
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
Presumably there was a bidding process betw Sky Regional & Jazz and perhaps other interested carriers?

Rumour is not.
 
Hawaiian763
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:01 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 15):
I see them running the 777 to FRA rather than LHR from YYC and switching the LHR run to the 333

I'm quite surprised the 333 isn't on the LHR route, last year it was the reverse with the 763 operating FRA and the 333 on LHR. If the 763's are being freed up for the low cost division could we see YYC-NRT upgraded to a 77W?
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 19):

That was before LH pulled out of the YYC market.
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
Presumably there was a bidding process betw Sky Regional & Jazz and perhaps other interested carriers?
Quoting multimark (Reply 18):
Rumour is not.

As much as Jazz would liked to have had the additional flying,operating a small sub-fleet would have been challenging. I'm not at all surprised to hear Sky Regional was awarded the flying as they would have likely flown the E75 for considerably less compared to Jazz's mature costs.

AC agreement with it's pilots allowed for up to 60 regional jets seating 76 or less to be operated by CPA carriers. By my count it's now half way to that mark;Jazz 16 x 705 + Sky Regional 15 x E75 = 31. What remains to be seen is if Jazz is able to increase it's 705 fleet going forward at the expense of the CRJ 200 and DH1,considering the ASM limitations of the AC pilot contract.

For Jazz,it's future hinges greatly on being able to also increase it's DH4 fleet, The challenge is that AC also has Sky Regional now in the mix operating the DH4 with a route expansion occuring later this month,and they too would certainly would like to increase their flying. Jazz has a CPA agreement that expires in 2020;interesting time ahead.

[Edited 2012-10-01 10:43:45]
 
m1m2
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:42 pm

As per AM 680 news:

MONTREAL - Air Canada said Monday it will expand its relationship with non-unionized Sky Regional Airlines to include routes to the United States.

I'm thinking the key here is "non-unionized".
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:54 pm

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 16):
Presumably there was a bidding process betw Sky Regional & Jazz and perhaps other interested carriers?

Could there be?

AC has a CPA agreement with Jazz/Chorus on a set seat/mile charge. SkyRegional, like everyone else with a computer knows what that seat/mile charge is. SkyRegional then would have offered to fly the E175 for less.

I am curious if Jazz/Chorus could even have countered under the CPA. Namely, while it protects Jazz/Chorus in a lot of ways, does it also restrict it?

Quoting m1m2 (Reply 22):
I'm thinking the key here is "non-unionized".

I am thinking seat/mile cost is the key, union or not. Talk internally is that SkyRegional will be unionized before too long.

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 21):
AC agreement with it's pilots allowed for up to 60 regional jets seating 76 or less to be operated by CPA carriers. By my count it's now half way to that mark;Jazz 16 x 705 + Sky Regional 15 x E75 = 31.

What about the CL65s? Are they not included in the number? Last time I checked, Jazz/Chorus had 35. (9 -100s, 25 -200s operated for AC, and one charter -200)
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pnwtraveler
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:05 pm

I do not see the 777's used to Europe except for perhaps subbing in for flights. The Euro market is still somewhat soft except for the key routes. With LH Cargo and Air Cargo Germany, plus the belly cargo of LH and AC's 77W there is quite a lot of volume there already for the cargo side. If AC needs more themself watch for a sharing agreement with LH similar to that with passengers.

I see one 777 going to South America at least seasonally to open another direct route or replace a 767. I see another Chinese city opening up as well for the second.
 
amritpal
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:40 pm

I really hope AC would start YVR-DEL. YYZ at least has direct to India using AI or Jet Airways using one stop. I would never fly AI. There service was crappy 13 years ago and still is. I would think 77W has the range to fly YVR-DEL, No? Lots of Indians around Vancouver that would love to fly direct rather than indirect 24-30 hr flights.

[Edited 2012-10-01 12:46:42]
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JAGflyer
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:04 pm

I wonder why AC has not capitalized on the Indian market. Granted, AI and 9W both fly to DEL from YYZ I still see potential for connecting people out of places like YVR and YYC in addition to the YYZ-based traffic. The only reason I can see is the VFR market is VERY price concious and would rather take a 4+ hour stop over to save even $200-300 vs. a non-stop.
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superjeff
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:15 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):

CP flew YVR-HNL-SYD for years, and there's an Open Skies treaty between the U.S. and Canada, as well as between the U.S. and Australia. I think that AC would have no problem flying YVR-HNL-MEL with full Fifth Freedom rights. The reason they eliminated the stop between YVR and SYD was largely a result of hassles for international transiting at HNL after 9/11.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting AF086 (Reply 4):

Any best guesses of where AC will begin services? In South America, I'd say that GIG would be the favourite contender given that GRU, EZE and SCL already see AC service.
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 8):
I'd agree GIG would likely start as a 763 service and would likely transition to 788 when they start coming. During the soccer World Cup in 2014 and the Olys in 2016, 77W upgauge seems likely.

Potentially, yes, although I have zero clue about where things stand with regards to the air transport agreements between Brasil and Canada. I know that the bilateral restrictions limited Canadian airlines (aka AC) to only seven weekly passenger frequencies to BRA. Interestingly, AC never bothered to add a tag-on to their YYZGRU flight which would have done some good to the yields on that sector, but I suppose the costs incurred for maintaining a 5th-freedom GIG flight were too much for them?

Regardless, GIG requires two airframes to operate on a daily basis.

Quoting amritpal (Reply 25):
I really hope AC would start YVR-DEL. YYZ at least has direct to India using AI or Jet Airways using one stop. I would never fly AI. There service was crappy 13 years ago and still is. I would think 77W has the range to fly YVR-DEL, No? Lots of Indians around Vancouver that would love to fly direct rather than indirect 24-30 hr flights.

AC will not bother with a YVRDEL flight. Too low-yielding, too much competition. YVR's population base is far too small to support a nonstop link to DEL (esp without a connecting partner at the other end) and the Indian community in Vancouver will not likely pay high premiums to sustain such a costly flight.
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behramjee
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:24 pm

AC does not operate its own flights from YVR nor YYZ to India because quite frankly it is not a profitable venture. Neither 9W nor AI make a profit flying to YYZ and nor would AC to India as the yields are very low, competition extremely tough in spite of high volume demand.

AC are better off offering like everyone else a one stop product to India from Canada via a code share partner in Europe or Asia.
 
AF086
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
otentially, yes, although I have zero clue about where things stand with regards to the air transport agreements between Brasil and Canada. I know that the bilateral restrictions limited Canadian airlines (aka AC) to only seven weekly passenger frequencies to BRA. Interestingly, AC never bothered to add a tag-on to their YYZGRU flight which would have done some good to the yields on that sector, but I suppose the costs incurred for maintaining a 5th-freedom GIG flight were too much for them?

The Brazil-Canada bilateral was ammended in February 2011. It now allows unlimited frequencies between the two countries. So the doors are open for AC to apply for flights to GIG if they're interested.

As for the tagon, the brazilian government refuses to grant 5th freedom rights on domestic sectors. That's one of the reasons that GIG-GRU tagons on international services by foreign carriers have almost disappeared. UA is the last carrier who does it: they fly GIG-GRU-IAD with the 772 and they use the tagon to feed their ORD, IAD and EWR services with GIG pax.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
Regardless, GIG requires two airframes to operate on a daily basis.

I think that begining with a daily operation would be too risky for AC even with the strong economic ties. AC could begin with a 3x weekly service. That would allow AC to use just one aircraft and it would be more cautious of them. They could increase slowly the frequencies to daily once the flight gets consolidated and the fleet increases.



[Edited 2012-10-01 13:38:07]
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krisyyz
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting amritpal (Reply 25):
I really hope AC would start YVR-DEL. YYZ at least has direct to India using AI or Jet Airways using one stop. I would never fly AI. There service was crappy 13 years ago and still is. I would think 77W has the range to fly YVR-DEL, No? Lots of Indians around Vancouver that would love to fly direct rather than indirect 24-30 hr flights.

I'm sure the 77W or the 77L has the range, AC flew YYZ-DEL with their A345/A343, I think the -300 had to make a fuelling stop somewhere in Norway or Sweden if I remember correctly.

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 3):
Boeing. AC has some on order.

I think they have 3 active orders, I guess the 3rd one will be leased out.

KrisYYZ
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:15 pm

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 31):
I'm sure the 77W or the 77L has the range, AC flew YYZ-DEL with their A345/A343, I think the -300 had to make a fuelling stop somewhere in Norway or Sweden if I remember correctly.

The -300 used to operate via ZRH if I remember correctly. My post was not recommending a YVR-India flight but rather YYZ-DEL or YYZ-BOM. I cannot see how 9W and AI would not be profitable especially considering 9W captures a sizable portion of the YYZ-BRU traffic and onwards using SN. If I remember correctly 9W uses BRU has a hub for a few flights to/from India (DEL, BOM, and _____). AI was flying to ATQ out of YYZ (which has a very sizable Sikh/Punjabi population, especially in the near vicinity of the airport). They have delayed the restart of the route will February 2013 rather than the planned re-start in Nov/Dec.
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krisyyz
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 32):
The -300 used to operate via ZRH if I remember correctly

I think that flight went to a 763 later on, I heard from an AC FA that a lot of the ZRH premium pax were complaining about the India bound passengers. But I'm pretty sure AC flew their A345 to India non-stop.

KrisYYZ
 
yegbey01
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:24 pm

To be exact, the YYZ-DEL flight used to do a technical in ARN and when the Russians started playing politics and they denied AC airspace, they ended up flying through ZRH with rights to DEL.
 
chrisa330
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 31):
I think they have 3 active orders, I guess the 3rd one will be leased out.

They have 5, but haven't confirmed what will happen with the extra 3. Those 3 are being delivered in 2014, so still some time to refine the plan
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:47 pm

Quoting amritpal (Reply 25):
I really hope AC would start YVR-DEL

That route would be worse than YYZ - DEL from a profitability perspective. Thought I read that AI route DEL - YYZ is suspended due to severe losses with a possibility of it returning in early 2013. Seems the problem is not a lack of passengers,just a yield issue. There is so little premium traffic to make this viable for anyone non-stop.

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 26):
The only reason I can see is the VFR market is VERY price concious and would rather take a 4+ hour stop over to save even $200-300 vs. a non-stop.

Thank the Gulf carriers mainly for this situation;that's not a criticism,rather just reality.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 27):
I think that AC would have no problem flying YVR-HNL-MEL with full Fifth Freedom rights.

AC better hurry up if they are thinking of using HNL for services to the South Pacific. HA has already launched HNL services to SYD BNE and AKL. Seems a little late if you ask me. I foresee future growth coming from Asia and South America.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:51 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 27):
CP flew YVR-HNL-SYD for years, and there's an Open Skies treaty between the U.S. and Canada, as well as between the U.S. and Australia. I think that AC would have no problem flying YVR-HNL-MEL with full Fifth Freedom rights.

That's not how bilaterals work. Canada is not a party to the U.S.-Australia bilateral. The intermediate points need to be set out in the agreement between the two parties. The intermediate points in the Canada-Australia bilateral are SFO, HNL, NAN, PPT. AC would also need Australian permission to fly to MEL, as the Canada-Australia bilateral specifies SYD and one other destination to be approved by Australia.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 27):
The reason they eliminated the stop between YVR and SYD was largely a result of hassles for international transiting at HNL after 9/11.

CP operated HNL as a scissor hub for AKL/SYD-YVR/YYZ. AC eliminated it because it was not profitable (and hadn't been for CP); nothing to do with post 9/11 transit issues.
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juanchito
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:53 pm

Any plans for growth in Latin America?

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9252fly
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:56 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 23):
What about the CL65s? Are they not included in the number? Last time I checked, Jazz/Chorus had 35. (9 -100s, 25 -200s operated for AC, and one charter -200)

Good catch! You're right,the key being " 60 jets up to 65 seats". The last of the CRJ -100s will exit the fleet in May,leaving 25 CRJ -200s. No point counting the one charter -200 as it's not covered under the CPA(think of it as a spare mostly). So the math is 15 x -E75 + 16 x -705 + 25 x -200 = 56. Doesn't really leave much room unless the -200s are on death-row. To the best of my knowledge,there is no restriction on the amount of DH4s providing the CPA carriers do not exceed the % of ASM within the AC/Pilot agreement.

[Edited 2012-10-01 14:58:32]
 
YYCSpotter
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 19):
If the 763's are being freed up for the low cost division could we see YYC-NRT upgraded to a 77W?

Possibly, but its unlikely... if anything, YYC-NRT will be on 767 until they are replaced by 787s, sooner or later. correct me if i'm wrong, but there isn't the demand for the route to support a 77W, or even a 77L for that matter...
I
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 21):
AC agreement with it's pilots allowed for up to 60 regional jets seating 76 or less to be operated by CPA carriers. By my count it's now half way to that mark;Jazz 16 x 705 + Sky Regional 15 x E75 = 31. What remains to be seen is if Jazz is able to increase it's 705 fleet going forward at the expense of the CRJ 200 and DH1,considering the ASM limitations of the AC pilot contract.

The press release link provided by the OP states that more -700 & -900 flying will be coming.

Quoting amritpal (Reply 25):
I really hope AC would start YVR-DEL. YYZ at least has direct to India using AI or Jet Airways using one stop. I would never fly AI. There service was crappy 13 years ago and still is. I would think 77W has the range to fly YVR-DEL, No? Lots of Indians around Vancouver that would love to fly direct rather than indirect 24-30 hr flights.
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 28):
AC will not bother with a YVRDEL flight. Too low-yielding, too much competition. YVR's population base is far too small to support a nonstop link to DEL (esp without a connecting partner at the other end) and the Indian community in Vancouver will not likely pay high premiums to sustain such a costly flight.

India from Canada is a very seasonal market and as well AC would have to compete with AI, which has very generous discounts vis-a-vis AC fares. hard to beat with mainly VFR traffic.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
chrisa330
Posts: 545
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 41):

The press release link provided by the OP states that more -700 & -900 flying will be coming.

Where in the AC press release does it state that?
 
connies4ever
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RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:49 pm

You're right, my bad.

Reference to more -700/900s comes from thread Air Canada Narrowbody Fleet: Embraers, LargerCRJs.

My mind has turned to mush, and I haven't even opened the bar.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Kaiarahi
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:58 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 43):

Open the bar and firm up the mush   
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
krisyyz
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:04 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 34):
To be exact, the YYZ-DEL flight used to do a technical in ARN and when the Russians started playing politics and they denied AC airspace, they ended up flying through ZRH with rights to DEL.

Thanks for the clarification.

The 767 fleet must run at a very high utilization rate, AC has some big plans for the initial batch of 14 787s, replace the A333s, start new routes and free up the 767s for LCC ops. But with 20 763s going to LCC and the 8 A333s to be replaces, how will AC manage it's current long-haul network? Will there be enough metal (or Carbon-fiber) in the long-haul fleet to service the current destinations and expand? Even if all 5 77Ws are delivered to AC it seems to be a bit of a stretch.

Has a delivery date been set for the 2nd batch of 787-8/9s? I heard a rumour that AC split the 787 order 50/50 between the -8 and -9 versions.



Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 32):
The -300 used to operate via ZRH if I remember correctly. My post was not recommending a YVR-India flight but rather YYZ-DEL or YYZ-BOM. I cannot see how 9W and AI would not be profitable especially considering 9W captures a sizable portion of the YYZ-BRU traffic and onwards using SN. If I remember correctly 9W uses BRU has a hub for a few flights to/from India (DEL, BOM, and _____). AI was flying to ATQ out of YYZ (which has a very sizable Sikh/Punjabi population, especially in the near vicinity of the airport). They have delayed the restart of the route will February 2013 rather than the planned re-start in Nov/Dec.

" And Air Canada is preparing for the arrival in 2014 of its first Boeing 787 aircraft that will allow it to economically service markets such as India.

The planes, which will be purchased rather than leased, could be outfitted with three cabin classes -- economy, premium economy and business."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/air-c...westjet-regional-schedule-1.962817

KrisYYZ
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18974
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:47 pm

Quoting AF086 (Reply 30):
As for the tagon, the brazilian government refuses to grant 5th freedom rights on domestic sectors. That's one of the reasons that GIG-GRU tagons on international services by foreign carriers have almost disappeared. UA is the last carrier who does it: they fly GIG-GRU-IAD with the 772 and they use the tagon to feed their ORD, IAD and EWR services with GIG pax.

As far as I know, no foreign carriers have ever had cabotage rights on domestic sectors in Brazil. That's very unusual anywhere (one of the rare exceptions is the EU single market for EU-based carriers). Carriers have often operated domestic tag-on sectors such as GIG-GRU but without domestic traffic rights.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 10):
Quoting Hawaiian763 (Reply 9):
Wouldn't it be more favorable for AC to use a 77L on this routing? I'd much rather have non-stop flight to MEL than have to make a stopover in HNL

I think it would depend if the traffic were there. With a stop in HNL, does AC still not have Fifth Freedom rights between HNL and Australia?

Canadian carriers have always had 5th freedom rights between HNL and Australia. I can't see AC ever returning to that routing.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3018
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:48 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 15):
I see them running the 777 to FRA rather than LHR from YYC and switching the LHR run to the 333

What is your source or reasoning for this statement?
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18974
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 37):
AC would also need Australian permission to fly to MEL, as the Canada-Australia bilateral specifies SYD and one other destination to be approved by Australia.

That's not correct. Just read the bilateral again and it clearly states the 2nd point in Australia is a point of Canada's choosing, provided it's a point designated for international services which MEL certainly is. They don't need Australia's approval, just like QF didn't need Canada's approval when they began their brief service to YYZ.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18974
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada Announces Plan For International Growth

Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:56 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 47):
Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 15):
I see them running the 777 to FRA rather than LHR from YYC and switching the LHR run to the 333

What is your source or reasoning for this statement?

Probably because FRA is a much bigger cargo market than LHR.

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