ZKOJH
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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:50 am

Welcome to number 120 Part of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 119 (by PA515 Sep 7 2012 in Civil Aviation) In number 119 we talked about;

* The China Market
* QF and EK getting together effects on the Tasman ?
* NZ All Blacks Charter
* NZ to move flights in Japan to HND?
* Normal airpoints spats
* Upgrade of the 772's starting in 2014/2015
* Scheduled Changes for flights to PVG
* Jetstar New Zealand get new uniforms
* Arrival dates for the new ATR 72-600 fleet
* Hamilton Airport trans Tasman flights fade

Lets enjoy aviation and have fun!

[Edited 2012-10-02 22:55:48]
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:05 am

Well lets get the ball rolling   following on from the last posts in 119,

HA which will start flights between HNL-AKL on the 15 March next year now plans to operate 294-seater Airbus A330-200 aircraft instead of previously planned 264-seater 767-300ER.

Schedule:

HA445 HNL1425 – 2140+1AKL 332 135
HA446 AKL2340 – 1030HNL 332 246

With NZ making the change of putting the 763 back on the route, think we can say that this will be the next route to disappear?

Also

''Air New Zealand Mar – June 2013 North America Service Expansion'' ( The airline anticipates additional service expansion by July 2013, which will be announced at a later date.)

Auckland – Los Angeles Service operates 14 weekly once again, increases from 12. Boeing 777-200ER/300ER operating
NZ006 AKL1940 – 1255LAX 77W x2
NZ006 AKL1940 – 1255LAX 772 2
NZ002 AKL2130 – 1445LAX 77W D

NZ001 LAX2145 – 0545+2AKL 77W D
NZ005 LAX2230 – 0630+2AKL 772 2
NZ005 LAX2230 – 0630+2AKL 77W x2

Auckland – San Francisco Service operates daily, increases from 5 weekly - 744/772's
Auckland – Vancouver Service operates 3 weekly, Boeing 777-200ER operating
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alangirvan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:45 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1):
HA445 HNL1425 – 2140+1AKL 332 135
HA446 AKL2340 – 1030HNL 332 246

With NZ making the change of putting the 763 back on the route, think we can say that this will be the next route to disappear?

Before HA started HNL-SYD Qantas and Jetstar were operating a schedule with morning departures from SYD and night returns from HNL. HA started doing lunchtime departures from HNL and evening departures from SYD, which is what they are doing from AKL. Qantas and Jetstar copies them - wonder if AirNZ will move the departure time of Hawaii flights if the HA timings prove to be popular.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:10 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1):
Auckland – San Francisco Service operates daily, increases from 5 weekly - 744/772's

Does NZ have enough 772 for all these. It seems they will be very highly utilised. Also would they be parking one of the 744 in AKL?
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:37 am

a quote from Kairahi...

On another note, I'm hearing from people who should know that AC is losing confidence in NZ as a code-share partner.

Are you able to elaborate ?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:51 am

NZ and the A330 was mentioned a couple of times in the previous thread. No doubt the A332 has the legs for 12-hr flights but the A333 simply does not. It is limited to max-passenger load . 10-hrs is about its limit with a good payload and this puts it just under what is needed from AKL to Asia in my view.
 
Mr AirNZ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting cchan (Reply 3):
Does NZ have enough 772 for all these. It seems they will be very highly utilised. Also would they be parking one of the 744 in AKL?

If the schedule has been published then yes, there will be sufficient coverage in the fleet to operate the flights. The last two 744s are here till 2014 with the arrival of the 787s. No parking of the remaining hulls in the near future.
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:27 am

The March to June of 2013 with see the 772 come off the PVG route and be replaced with 763's on a daily basis, and Vancouver will operate only on a Wednesday, Friday and Sunday next year with the 772, so fingers crossed Network planning have got it right ? - except now they have a 763 up against a new A332 with HA on the HNL route.

We are still 20 months away from the first 787-9 delivery Boeing seem to be right on it even tho there are still delays with 787-8's (Qatar just to name 1!!)

Does anyone know what the final seat layout was going be for the 787-9's ? as NZ had to have it sorted by September 2012! and inform Boeing how it wanted to play.
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:25 am

Anyone know why SQ is increasing services to AKL in FEB? and just the one month

overall service from 12 to 13 weekly.

Schedule:

SQ281 SIN0850 – 2345AKL 772 x2
SQ285 SIN2115 – 1210+1AKL 77W D

SQ282 AKL0105 – 0635SIN 772 x3
SQ286 AKL1330 – 1900SIN 77W D
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cchan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:57 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
Anyone know why SQ is increasing services to AKL in FEB? and just the one month

Start of school and university term in New Zealand? Possibly plus Chinese new year?
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:51 am

Next year's China New year will fall on the 10th Feb, will we be getting any extra flights from NZ, CZ or CX ?
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Kaiarahi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:04 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 4):
Are you able to elaborate ?

The issues mentioned were FF plan earning/redemption reciprocity (e.g. it's impossible in practice to get a trans-Pacific flight or upgrade using Aeroplan points); and NZ's practice of dumping PE pax into the lowest Y bucket on AC flights, which has resulted in pax complaints to AC of the "never fly with AC again" type.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 11):
dumping PE pax into the lowest Y bucket on AC flights

Charge high connecting flight fares but booked in cheapest fare classes
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PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 6):
Quoting cchan (Reply 3):
Does NZ have enough 772 for all these. It seems they will be very highly utilised. Also would they be parking one of the 744 in AKL?

If the schedule has been published then yes, there will be sufficient coverage in the fleet to operate the flights. The last two 744s are here till 2014 with the arrival of the 787s. No parking of the remaining hulls in the near future.

Only one 744 is utilised AKL-SFO-AKL Apr-Oct 2013 according to the Air NZ website schedule, 744 Tu Th Sa, 772 Fr Su.

That will now be daily AKL-SFO-AKL Apr-Jun 2013, 744 Tu Th Sa, 772 Mo We Fr Su. The Press Release says further increases are likely from Jul 2013 which could mean both 744's utilised on AKL-SFO-AKL from Jul 2013.

Only seven of the eight 772's are utilised Apr-Jun 2013, and that includes the extra Mo We AKL-SFO-AKL flights.

AKL-HKG-LHR Daily/5 weekly (3)
AKL-PER-AKL Daily (1)
AKL-SFO-AKL Mo We Fr Su, AKL-LAX-AKL Tu, AKL-NRT-AKL Fr Sa Su (2)
AKL-YVR-AKL We Fr Su (1)

Someone said the 744's would be getting 'C' checks. Are the 772's getting some work done Apr-Jun 2013?

PA515
 
timb777
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:50 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
Charge high connecting flight fares but booked in cheapest fare classes

This is indeed my current gripe with NZ.

I remember that a few years ago the NZ booking engine would route NZ-LAX-New York Pax to JFK, but ever since the UA premium service was introduced with 34" pitch in Y, such connections do not show up on the website (except for a couple in J). Thus, pax find themselves stuck on an ex-CO 737 to Newark or on VX (ok airline, but tight pitch when not in main cabin select and no status point earning). This brasses me off as obviously NZ has deemed the UA Y PS fare classes to be "too dare" and probably too spacious and luxurious for pax pre-folded from their 77W Y run.

I for one would still like the option to show, even if it were a bit dearer than the 737 and VX flights. While I consider it disgusting for NZ to connect J pax to Y US domestic flights (becoming more and more common), it would seem fair to connect Y+ pax onto PS 34" trans-con Y at the least.

My last two bookings to JFK have thus been on VA, and it charges NZ Y fares for Y+ and connects you free of charge onto VX's Main Cabin Select class with spacious pitch not far behind Y+ standard.

Can the PS 757 flights even be booked through the call centre for a small premium? Anyone ever attempted this? If so a AKL-SFO-JFK Y ticket for circa $2,500 could be somewhat better value than cramped a 77W/Ex-CO737 $2k sale / regular fare....

On a different note, does anyone know if NZ has any of these floating around that I could acquire for my garden?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM7ksfRVF70&feature=player_embedded


timb777  
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:50 am

Nz have started to restrict ticketing options on flights ex eastern seaboard like IAD etc to many parts within continental europe. LH/UA direct being shunned for connections on VS through LHR etc..yuck. There are still options
but far fewer and less convenient. Friends who are golds and who travel to usa then europe at least twice a year commented to me the other day asked me if i could think of any options. I gave them a few but said that if i were them i would think of going to europe via asia on another star carrier then buy another star fare t-at as a side journey.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 2):
Before HA started HNL-SYD Qantas and Jetstar were operating a schedule with morning departures from SYD and night returns from HNL. HA started doing lunchtime departures from HNL and evening departures from SYD, which is what they are doing from AKL. Qantas and Jetstar copies them - wonder if AirNZ will move the departure time of Hawaii flights if the HA timings prove to be popular.

I don't recall any of the QF/JQ flights departing in the morning...? I'm interested to see the scheduling...

I've just witnessed a B77W depart SYD and what appeared to be NZs new color scheme... Has the new scheme been rolled out or was it the reflection of the sun...

EK413
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:32 am

''Emirates goes double daily through Auckland with A380's'

Well its finally happened can't see there being a 3rd A380 flight tho don't think AKL have the gate's? it's starting to look like a mini LHR of the south! ha-ha

New Zealand was placed firmly in Emirates' history book today, when Auckland became one of only a few destinations on the airline's ever-growing network to welcome the Airbus A380 twice daily.

Since 2009, one of Emirates' four daily flights to and from New Zealand - the Auckland service via Sydney - has been flown by the A380. Now, a second A380 has become part of the New Zealand schedule, with the aircraft replacing a Boeing 777-300ER on the Auckland service via Melbourne.

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/emir...ble-daily-through-auckland-5112586
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:14 am

So they are really having a 'Spring Clean' at the HUB theses days,

And some sad news - So we have said goodbye to Rob, Simon, Vanessa and Now : -

Resignation of Norm Thompson

Air New Zealand announces that Norm Thompson, the company’s Deputy Chief Executive Officer and acting Group General Manager International Airline, is to retire on 30 June 2013.

Chief Executive Officer Rob Fyfe commented:

“During my career I have had the privilege to work with many world class executives and leaders. None have exhibited the level of passion, commitment and knowledge relevant to their industry that I have seen from Norm since I joined Air New Zealand.

I have immensely valued his insights, perspectives and support during my tenure as Chief Executive Officer. He has enabled me to lead the business in the way I felt important by picking up on my behalf a multitude of key projects and international stakeholder relationships, especially within the Star Alliance and with other partners like government, tourism bodies, airports and air service providers.

Few Air New Zealanders have made as significant a contribution to our airline and the nation’s tourism industry as Norm has over the past 44 years. He is a world class senior executive and has been critical to shaping the multi award-winning airline we enjoy working in today.”

I think they have all done a good job and even had the pleasure of meeting Rob, Norm, Vanessa and Simon several times whilst I worked for them in 2007.

https://www.nzx.com/companies/AIR/announcements/228086

interesting words from the stuff.co.nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...95/Air-NZ-executives-find-the-exit

''Executives and other senior managers at Air New Zealand are nervously waiting to see what changes Luxon will make when he takes the reins at the end of December.'' where's the door?!!

but good on the shares - Air NZ shares closed at $1.215 on the NZX yesterday, their highest level in over 18 months (March 2011).
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:17 am

But not so good news?

''40 engineering jobs at risk in Christchurch''

Up to 40 jobs could go at a Christchurch aircraft engine servicing company part-owned by Air New Zealand, the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union (EPMU) says.

The Christchurch Engine Centre, a joint venture between Government-controlled Air NZ and United States-based aircraft engine producer Pratt & Whitney, maintains several engine types for airlines and is based at Christchurch airport.

EPMU assistant director of organising Strachan Crang said the company was getting out of one of its engine lines because it had become obsolete. The company services planes from around the world and its earnings had been hit by the strong Kiwi dollar, he said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...ering-jobs-at-risk-in-Christchurch
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:00 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 16):
I've just witnessed a B77W depart SYD and what appeared to be NZs new color scheme... Has the new scheme been rolled out or was it the reflection of the sun...

An ATR 72-600 being delivered this month is the first aircraft wearing the hideous/repulsive black scheme.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 17):

WAsn't this announced several months ago? I'm certain I've read about this before?
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rjm717
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:23 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 15):
I don't recall any of the QF/JQ flights departing in the morning...? I'm interested to see the scheduling...

HA started the Sydney service in May 2004. At the time QF3 departed SYD at about 9AM and turned around in the middle of the night in HNL. In December 2004 QF aligned it's SYD-HNL flights to more closely copy the HA schedule.

JQ didn't operate SYD/MEL-HNL for some time later, (not sure at this point the actual stat date).

Despite the re-timing, both QF and JQ arrive HNL quite early, meaning hotel rooms are seldom available (and the return timings mean an early wake-up as well).

R
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:18 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 20):
An ATR 72-600 being delivered this month is the first aircraft wearing the hideous/repulsive black scheme.

I thought it was getting the All Blacks scheme..
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ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:28 am

The only black were going to see is the the tail and words on the aircraft! this will either be make it or laugh it up for the company now it's on a real aircraft.

Does anyone know the flight route it will take from France to New Zealand yet?
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:04 am

Quoting rjm717 (Reply 21):
Despite the re-timing, both QF and JQ arrive HNL quite early, meaning hotel rooms are seldom available (and the return timings mean an early wake-up as well).

I've experienced this first hand in March and had to wait a good 5 hours until my room was ready...

Any information regarding today's LA800/801 service which arrived a good 7 hours late into SYD...?

EK413
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:25 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 22):

Oh yea, forgot about the rugby livery. Second ATR in January then.


Any updates on the other 1900Ds to receive the rugby livery? Any Q300s?
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nascarnut
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 25):
Any updates on the other 1900Ds to receive the rugby livery? Any Q300s?

Looks like the ATR has replaced the 3rd Beech in the Rugby scheme. I have not heard any word on a Q300 be painted yet. The next aircraft to recieve a special colour scheme will be a 777-300ER with the Hobbit movie designed by Peter Jackson's team.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:17 am

I doubt any more B1900D's will be painted black due to a number of aircraft required in maintenance over the next 12 months. Doesn't leave any slack in the schedule to send one away for painting.

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nz2
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:06 am

Quoting timb777 (Reply 14):
I remember that a few years ago the NZ booking engine would route NZ-LAX-New York Pax to JFK, but ever since the UA premium service was introduced with 34" pitch in Y, such connections do not show up on the website (except for a couple in J). Thus, pax find themselves stuck on an ex-CO 737 to Newark or on VX (ok airline, but tight pitch when not in main cabin select and no status point earning). This brasses me off as obviously NZ has deemed the UA Y PS fare classes to be "too dare" and probably too spacious and luxurious for pax pre-folded from their 77W Y run.

The wife and I were routed JFK/SFO on the UA P.S. service as our return leg to AKL, it was a great flight, this was back in May this year, seemed to be no restriction from NZ on what flight we could choose, I dont believee we would have been restrcted had we gone via LAX either

Quoting EK413 (Reply 24):
Any information regarding today's LA800/801 service which arrived a good 7 hours late into SYD...?

I arrived back in AKL from BA this morning and spent 7 hours in Santiago last night, a 4 hour delay on LA801 due to maintenance. Other passengers were on our flight from the previous days flight and spoke of maintenace also however much worse, a 12 hour delay, so it is in Santiago they are having issues. Our plane was pulled into the gate from a hard stand and only 1 hour prior to departure were we told of any issues. I was with a bunch of 8 mates coming back from the All Black game in La Plata so didnt worry us too much as we just ordered more beers, however once the bar closed we were keen to get away and luckily we did by about 4am, was scheduled for 2330. A long day.....
 
alangirvan
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:57 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 19):
EPMU assistant director of organising Strachan Crang said the company was getting out of one of its engine lines because it had become obsolete. The company services planes from around the world and its earnings had been hit by the strong Kiwi dollar, he said.

The Radio NZ News broadcast said the engine type is the JT8D which has not been used by AirNZ itself for years and years - who else would use this engine in the region? Sad to see it gone - - a big part of aviation history. Does CEC still offer Dart overhaul?

The CEC will have an interesting time ahead of it, when the big Australian workshops are closing and sending work to Europe. Jetstar chose GE engines for its A320NEO order - if AirNZ chooses the PW100G, will that be a big enough order on its own to keep CEC viable?
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:15 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 8):
Anyone know why SQ is increasing services to AKL in FEB? and just the one month

They usually increase to 14 weekly from mid December through mid Feb, which looks to be the case according to the schedules atm with 13 weekly until end FEB.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 7):
The March to June of 2013 with see the 772 come off the PVG route and be replaced with 763's on a daily basis, and Vancouver will operate only on a Wednesday, Friday and Sunday next year with the 772, so fingers crossed Network planning have got it right ? - except now they have a 763 up against a new A332 with HA on the HNL route.

I do wonder if they will use a 772 to HNL, nothing yet though.

Quoting cchan (Reply 3):
Does NZ have enough 772 for all these. It seems they will be very highly utilised. Also would they be parking one of the 744 in AKL?

Not that many 772s been used here
AKL-HKG-LHR daily 3 aircraft
AKL-PER Daily 1 aircraft
AKL-YVR 3 weekly 1 aircraft
AKL-SFO 4 weekly 1 aircraft
AKL-LAX 1 weekly
AKL-NRT 3 weekly

Uses just under 7 aircraft maybe add HNL 3 weekly in there?

Quoting PA515 (Reply 13):
Someone said the 744's would be getting 'C' checks. Are the 772's getting some work done Apr-Jun 2013?

Pretty sure 744s getting c checks, not sure on the 772s.

Additional North America capacity I think would be daily 744s to SFO, probably 4 weekly YVR and an additional LAX flight, remember this current increase replaces a bit of the capacity QF had before they pulled AKL-LAX.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:54 am

According to planespotters.net, Airwork has added a 737-300 to the New Zealand register. Prior to October the 4th, ZK-TLB (SN26310) was registered VQ-BHB and was operated by Kuban Airlines. It was delivered new to Continental Airlines in 1995. It has a rather distinctive livery, to say the least.

Quoting timb777 (Reply 14):
On a different note, does anyone know if NZ has any of these floating around that I could acquire for my garden?

Oooh ill take one too!  Air New Zealand had loads of spare RB211s when I visited their Auckland Maintenance Base shortly after ZK-NBS was scrapped. The engines were sent back from Roswell with a green blowup alien inside (they had given it a name, can't remember it now though, and dressed it in an ANZES high-vis jacket. Now that ZK-NBT and ZK-NBU have been scrapped, I guess they will have even more unused RB211s (at least until they get sold).
First to fly the 787-9 (ZK-NZE, NZ103, 2014-10-09)
 
timb777
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 28):
The wife and I were routed JFK/SFO on the UA P.S. service as our return leg to AKL, it was a great flight, this was back in May this year, seemed to be no restriction from NZ on what flight we could choose, I dont believee we would have been restrcted had we gone via LAX either

Interesting. Indeed, a search of the first 10 days in May next year showed a P.S connection through SFO. (Good!). However, no P.S JFK connections were offered through LAX, with all flights either United 737 to Newark, VX to JFK, or, unbelieveably, some DL offerings (!!). Still, goofd to see the SFO offering in place.
Do you remember if snacks are comp in Y on P.S services? or is it still BOB?'

Quoting 777ER (Reply 25):
Any updates on the other 1900Ds to receive the rugby livery? Any Q300s?
Quoting NZ1 (Reply 27):
doubt any more B1900D's will be painted black due to a number of aircraft required in maintenance over the next 12 months.

Is it possible that no Q300's are being painted due to every Q300 destination (except Paraparaumu) being also served by the 1900D or the AT7? Maybe painting these two types was an effective way of getting the livery to all but 1 domestic destination.....

timb777

[Edited 2012-10-06 03:21:00]
 
timb777
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:25 am

Quoting zkojq (Reply 31):
Oooh ill take one too! Air New Zealand had loads of spare RB211s when I visited their Auckland Maintenance Base shortly after ZK-NBS was scrapped. The engines were sent back from Roswell with a green blowup alien inside (they had given it a name, can't remember it now though, and dressed it in an ANZES high-vis jacket. Now that ZK-NBT and ZK-NBU have been scrapped, I guess they will have even more unused RB211s (at least until they get sold).

Haha, It sounds like we're in luck then!! Now all we need is a lot of concrete, a couple of steel beams, an APU, a very large fuel tank and some leaves to blow!!   For me, that 'resonance' at 0.27 is very very exciting.
 
NZ6
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting timb777 (Reply 14):
My last two bookings to JFK have thus been on VA, and it charges NZ Y fares for Y+ and connects you free of charge onto VX's Main Cabin Select class with spacious pitch not far behind Y+ standard.

VX is offered over UA (US, DL, AA) due to cost. I know UA charge about $300+ per coupon more than VX, NZ switching to use VX is an attempt to keep the fares as low as possible.

There are more airlines that are coming on board in the future for this reason. Sorry I can't say who and for what region.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:41 pm

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 34):
VX is offered over UA (US, DL, AA) due to cost. I know UA charge about $300+ per coupon more than VX, NZ switching to use VX is an attempt to keep the fares as low as possible.

for who's benefit I wonder - NZ's most likely ...
 
NZ6
Posts: 91
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:16 am

Quoting deconz (Reply 35):
for who's benefit I wonder - NZ's most likely ...

Well looks review the options

1. NZ uses VX and prices remain the same
2. NZ uses UA only and prices increase by $300+ (I know one east coast destination which costs $390 USD). On a return flight that's $955 NZD according to Google.

I would say both parties win here. NZ keeps fares down and can use a good value alternate carrier and customers get cheaper fares.

NZ needs to remain comparable to HA, QF and can't price itself out of the market by forcing passengers to buy stand alone tickets which are often on LCC carriers. Let's remind ourselves again 76% of NZ's customers are leisure travellers who are price sensitive. So yes again, there will be some unhappy premium customers but when you consider the vast majority of North American traffic originates in North America the cost savings out weight the FFP benefits for the minority NZ based members of use these services.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:27 am

I just hope VX stays alive.. They're a great airline - the first where I've seen everyone talking to their neighbours for the entire flight (4 hrs, ORD-LAX). The service is as good as the legacies too. They have PTVs unlike a lot of the legacy aircraft though AA's new product might be one to beat in a couple of years.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 36):
Let's remind ourselves again 76% of NZ's customers are leisure travellers who are price sensitive

I know many who opted to go to LAX on UA via SYD and they all told me how crap it was so they said they'd rather fly direct on NZ next time for a few hundred more.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
NZ6
Posts: 91
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 37):
I know many who opted to go to LAX on UA via SYD and they all told me how crap it was so they said they'd rather fly direct on NZ next time for a few hundred more.

We all know UA is rubbish - in fact I understand NZ fares don't use UA via SYD anymore as they increased their fee for the SYDLAX sector, it increased so much that it would cost NZ more than what was collected from the customer for the entire journey.

Fingers crossed VX grows and expands. Sadly we'll not see them apart of the Airpoints programme any time soon though.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 806
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:49 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 38):
Fingers crossed VX grows and expands. Sadly we'll not see them apart of the Airpoints programme any time soon though.

Just as the decade long relationship with JL never saw JL become part of the Airpoints programme? They just don't care about anything to do with monopoly routes do they?
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:53 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 38):

Fingers crossed VX grows and expands. Sadly we'll not see them apart of the Airpoints programme any time soon though.

Nothing rules out the whole Virgin Group joining Star or anything though.. Highly unlikely but it's still possible
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
timb777
Posts: 159
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:06 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 34):
VX is offered over UA (US, DL, AA) due to cost. I know UA charge about $300+ per coupon more than VX, NZ switching to use VX is an attempt to keep the fares as low as possible.

Interesting. If this cost reduction is the motivation, then that explains the appearance of DL as an option - domestically, a cheap, absolute dog of an airline. Period.

Quoting deconz (Reply 35):
for who's benefit I wonder - NZ's most likely ...

From what I can gather, yes NZ.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 36):
2. NZ uses UA only and prices increase by $300+

However, there are flights where UA P.S. is still an option- such as some SFO-JFK, and it is no dearer than the VX or even the diabolical DL offering. Additionally, North America fares have increased over the last year or two coming out of the recession as demand is picking back up- so is the consumer really getting a better deal with a decrease in product standard?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 37):
I just hope VX stays alive.. They're a great airline -

Agreed, holistically, they are a solid carrier and are putting competitive pressure on the Legacies to increase service standards. While VX is generally better than UA domestic in terms of both Y and J, I think UA P.S flights are the exception with Lie flat international standard J being retrofitted (vs VX recliner J), and 34"+ Y legroom (VX Y seats are much tighter, though wider I guess...).

Also lest not forget that NZ is (supposedly) still a star alliance carrier. Star golds and silvers get extra perks flying UA (Silvers get free checked bag, Golds get lounges, premium check in......), perks which are not recognised by VX or DL.

However, Interestingly, I have discovered that many UA P.S 757 flight 'hidden' from the lay mans search on the website can be accessed through doing a multi-city search, and at no extra cost. That's what I'll be doing.

Timb777

[Edited 2012-10-06 20:13:53]
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:27 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 38):
We all know UA is rubbish

Sure like any North American carrier, but I still like to visit Star Alliance lounges, and actually it is customer choice that should dictate whether or not we WANT to fly UA or any other. The fact is as much as they want VX as the onward option they should still at least be offering the Star Carriers AC/US/UA as an option for the customer to decide what they want to fly on and when they want to fly on them. Whatever the price, it should be possible. (as it is for all the other members - despite individual agreements) That is the point of traveling within one alliance over another and is even more important now that nonstop Pacific Rim is all that NZ will operate. As I have said on other occasions, it actually detracts from flying NZ over another Star carrier. I have nothing against VX, I flew them first class when they first started and they were quite reasonable, but ultimately I want choice..

Quoting timb777 (Reply 41):
However, Interestingly, I have discovered that many UA P.S 757 flight 'hidden' from the lay mans search on the website can be accessed through doing a multi-city search, and at no extra cost. That's what I'll be doing.

That is some consolation I guess. As long as it stays that way after the next IT web upgrade
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:25 am

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 28):
The wife and I were routed JFK/SFO on the UA P.S. service as our return leg to AKL, it was a great flight
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 34):
VX is offered over UA (US, DL, AA) due to cost. I know UA charge about $300+ per coupon more than VX, NZ switching to use VX is an attempt to keep the fares as low as possible.
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 36):
I would say both parties win here. NZ keeps fares down and can use a good value alternate carrier and customers get cheaper fares.

Why can't they offer both?

Surely in an era when management boasts about allowing "a la carte options" the booking engine can allow each of the following options for passengers travelling to/from North America beyond the gateways:

Choice 1: Cheapest Economy add-on to a Trans-Pacific Economy fare.
Choice 2: United PS Economy add-on for Economy Trans-Pacific passengers travelling to/from New York.
Choice 3: Cheapest Economy add-on to a Trans-Pacific Premium Economy fare.
Choice 4: Higher Economy booking classes or PS service for Premium Economy fare.

Why can't they just offer us the choice? Personally I'd choose to pay more for a higher fare bucket.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 36):
NZ needs to remain comparable to HA, QF and can't price itself out of the market by forcing passengers to buy stand alone tickets which are often on LCC carriers.

Well they force me to buy separate First Class tickets on US or UA because I won't tolerate being dumped into UA or VX or DL's lowest economy bucket.

And when I do buy a separate First Class ticket from UA, their booking engine allows me the choice between cheaper Z class (which only accrues as Full Economy in Airpoints) or D or C class. Again, I pick the higher fare.

Why can't Air NZ offer us the choice, and vary the pricing to pass any extra cost onto us?
 
NZ6
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:36 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 39):
Just as the decade long relationship with JL never saw JL become part of the Airpoints programme? They just don't care about anything to do with monopoly routes do they?

There is a solid reason why they can't - unless they join Star. I'm sure NZ would welcome them if they could.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 40):
Nothing rules out the whole Virgin Group joining Star or anything though.. Highly unlikely but it's still possible

Very true - I can't see it happening though.

Quoting timb777 (Reply 41):
From what I can gather, yes NZ.

Well up the prices and we'll see who wins.

Quoting timb777 (Reply 41):
However, there are flights where UA P.S. is still an option- such as some SFO-JFK, and it is no dearer than the VX or even the diabolical DL offering. Additionally, North America fares have increased over the last year or two coming out of the recession as demand is picking back up- so is the consumer really getting a better deal with a decrease in product standard?

No one said it was job complete. All I highlighted was why VX was an option now and how we may see more of them and other airlines over Star A connections.

Quoting koruman (Reply 43):
Why can't they offer both?

Surely in an era when management boasts about allowing "a la carte options" the booking engine can allow each of the following options for passengers travelling to/from North America beyond the gateways:

Choice 1: Cheapest Economy add-on to a Trans-Pacific Economy fare.
Choice 2: United PS Economy add-on for Economy Trans-Pacific passengers travelling to/from New York.
Choice 3: Cheapest Economy add-on to a Trans-Pacific Premium Economy fare.
Choice 4: Higher Economy booking classes or PS service for Premium Economy fare.

Why can't they just offer us the choice? Personally I'd choose to pay more for a higher fare bucket.

You may just find that this is where we'll end up, fare A allows the use of UA and fare B doesn't and fare B is cheaper.

All this leaves me wondering where the Star Alliance lies in NZ's future with it's current long haul strategy, thinking on - even the short haul strategy. Might start asking this question around a few circles.

[Edited 2012-10-06 23:37:32]
 
nz2
Posts: 168
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:37 am

Quoting timb777 (Reply 32):
Do you remember if snacks are comp in Y on P.S services? or is it still BOB?'

We were on a 7am flight but being Kiwis we decided to have a beer about 10.30. I asked the FA for 2 beeers and a antipasto platter, when he came back and I tried to pay he just said "its on me this time" so I dont know if he was being nice because we were drinking so early or if it was free. No others semmed to be ordering. I do recall that the headphones were crap and we both could not hear the movie properly (overhead screens) but hey we had leg room and a spare seat next to us with a great view out the window. We also used the UA JFK lounge being a *G which was also great. When checking in we had some issues and the nice lady worked on it for about 20 mins, charged us the $50 fee for our bags and then at last minute when attaching our bag labels spotted my gold tags and said "oh, sorry you actually get free baggage being Gold" and then gave me the $50 back - what a great person she was, one out of the box! As another bomus while taxiing the pilot said, "look to the left and you can see the space shuttle" and sure enough there it was, sitting atop the 747 carrier.
 
NZ6
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:42 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
Sure like any North American carrier, but I still like to visit Star Alliance lounges, and actually it is customer choice that should dictate whether or not we WANT to fly UA or any other. The fact is as much as they want VX as the onward option they should still at least be offering the Star Carriers AC/US/UA as an option for the customer to decide what they want to fly on and when they want to fly on them. Whatever the price, it should be possible. (as it is for all the other members - despite individual agreements) That is the point of traveling within one alliance over another and is even more important now that nonstop Pacific Rim is all that NZ will operate. As I have said on other occasions, it actually detracts from flying NZ over another Star carrier. I have nothing against VX, I flew them first class when they first started and they were quite reasonable, but ultimately I want choice..

I agree however at the end of the day you need a robust product which suits everyone's needs and is also profitable for the airline. given the figures I've shared above you must understand the reasons to use VX. Their rates I can't share but there're well under that of UA. All I'll say is Koruman is onto something with his earlier post. Even I'll admit I don't say that much.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18415
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:48 am

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 44):
All this leaves me wondering where the Star Alliance lies in NZ's future with it's current long haul strategy, thinking on - even the short haul strategy. Might start asking this question around a few circles.

I wish you would.

I don't like the alliances generally (I avoid them) but I'm sure it is of value to the airline. Similarly, OneWorld is still of value to Qantas. But with the tie-up with Emirates, Qantas is clearly saying that OneWorld isn't enough - which I've always believed.

I'm hopeful that "something" will come out of Air NZ's tie-up with Virgin Australia.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
timb777
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:22 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:02 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
but I still like to visit Star Alliance lounges, and actually it is customer choice that should dictate whether or not we WANT to fly UA or any other

Absolutely. For me, and many I know, I'm willing to pay a considerable surcharge to maintain the consistent *G treatment over the entire journey.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 44):
Well up the prices and we'll see who wins

As above, I and many I know will often pay a surcharge for a *A journey. Often I'll pay circa $550 return over the Tasman where I could have booked JQ for $390ish. That's a 41% surcharge that i'm paying. So when the prices are "upped" NZ can win.
I don't believe that cost is everything in choosing a long haul journey. Pax are, and do pay surcharges where a product is sufficiently differentiated to attract that premium. For me, such differentiation arises through Star Alliance and the experience it gives pax. With NZ spending incredible sums on marketing airpoints, surely offering airlines whereby pax can earn SP's and AP's is important to NZ's differentiated business model. Pure cost leadership is a race to the bottom in terms of product offerings. Did AirAsiaX get a great return on capital on their LHR route with its base pricing? No. Axed.

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 44):
No one said it was job complete

It is in terms of the LAX-JFK P.S route on most days. (via normal website interface).

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 45):
We were on a 7am flight
Quoting NZ2 (Reply 45):
we had leg room and a spare seat next to us with a great view out the window. We also used the UA JFK lounge being a *G
Quoting NZ2 (Reply 45):
"oh, sorry you actually get free baggage being Gold"

Thanks for the feedback! With a few $50 baggage fee savings you soon begin to close that $300 gap aforementioned by NZ6. (Although, as i say, the $300 is not visibly being passed through to pax flying NZ with the SFO-JFK P.S. flights the same price as dogish DL 'services'.)

Quoting NZ2 (Reply 45):
look to the left and you can see the space shuttle" and sure enough there it was, sitting atop the 747 carrier.

Fantastic! I also like UA's channel 9- pure gold.   

Quoting NZ6 (Reply 46):
I agree however at the end of the day you need a robust product which suits everyone's needs and is also profitable for the airline

I would argue that not 'everyone's needs' is met by cutting star alliance connections in favour of other airlines. DL is cheap because it is terrible. VX is cheap because it is struggling to snare corporate contracts and pax tied into legacy frequent flyer schemes, largely due to its limited network. When (if) it catches on and grows, market forces with equalise its pricing with current legacies. Then NZ will be left with no cost saving over a US P.S connection, pax will have no cheaper airfares, tighter seating, no Airpoints or SP's and no lounge access / priority service for elites. How on earth is that better meeting consumer needs?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 42):
That is some consolation I guess. As long as it stays that way after the next IT web upgrade

Very true. However, we are the few who pull the wool from before our eyes. As you say a further 'enhancement' by NZ's part will probably remove these options.

Timb777
 
BlackLabel
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:17 am

RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 120

Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:14 am

Quoting timb777 (Reply 32):
Do you remember if snacks are comp in Y on P.S services? or is it still BOB?'

BOB. Complimentary meals (or snacks) in Y went away mid-2006 on p.s.

The food in business/first isn't much to write home about either.

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