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What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:55 am

After DL conquers New York with it's LGA expansion and new JFK facilities, which market will be its next? Granted there is a lot of operational work to get the dual hub system working and a ton of marketing efforts to get the revenue stream on target. Just wondering what they might go after next. What holes could DL reasonably shore up in its network. Which current alliance partners could indicate an underserved opportunity? What will be the next strategic push?
 
PHX787
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:04 am

Well given the fact that their earnings have grown significantly, you think they may re-add flights to CVG again? I've heard people tell me that the lobbying for more service out of CVG has been upped since these profitability reports have come out. In particular, service to larger cities which has been shed by the cuts is being lobbied strongly by the greater Cincy business community. According to my dad though it's fallen upon deaf ears- until now. You think after they're done expanding at NYC they'll begin adding back to CVG?
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spiritair97
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:06 am

Personally, I think Milwaukee, seeing as they already announced that they would have a greater presence there. Probably not a hub, but maybe a focus city.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:17 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
According to my dad though it's fallen upon deaf ears- until now. You think after they're done expanding at NYC they'll begin adding back to CVG?

As it is, DL is pitting LGA against CVG. I don't see them "reviving" anything. There are more and more connection opportunities being offered through LGA that traditionally flew through CVG.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
Personally, I think Milwaukee, seeing as they already announced that they would have a greater presence there. Probably not a hub, but maybe a focus city.

MKE is small potatoes. DL saw an opportunity to swallow a very large portion of passengers that had no where to go with the continued downfall of F9 and WN's continued draw-down of FL's "hub" shifting capacity to MDW. Very smart move but dont read too much into what DL's doing there.

Quoting questions (Thread starter):

Ive said it before and i'll say it again. Once the Concrete Jungle dust settles after 2013, I think DL will refocus on LAX in a bigger way than they have. Marketing wise, it's sort of taken a back seat to the money being dumped into NYC and key European markets. Namely LHR. Having their PR so focused was genius IMHO. They're slowly making strides in LAX although on a small low-key scale. The big sponsorships have been in place for a while. The T5 check-in lobby and gates are currently getting a much needed face-lift that will be ongoing through next year. The network is O.K. They are flying to where people want to go and although very quiet about it, some time back, LAX went all two-class. There are no scheduled 50 seater flights though LAX on DL. They've also been hinting that LatAm and South America will be the new battleground.
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:21 am

They have NYC sewed up for now. My guess is LAX. That is their "must have" weak spot in Skyteam mode.
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BDL757
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:54 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):

I agree. I feel that both LAX and South/Latin America is the next thing on the 'to do' list. It'll be interesting to see if they start to build up each area simultaneously or not. Most of the "highlights" on dlnet have been about different media/PR events going on in South America and improvements being made in LAX so it's clear they are gearing up for something.
 
PHX787
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:59 am

Quoting BDL757 (Reply 6):
I agree. I feel that both LAX and South/Latin America is the next thing on the 'to do' list.

With AA in shambles, I smell a MIA hub takeover soon   
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Alitalia744
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:04 am

Los Angeles

FILL

FILL
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
compensateme
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:35 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
I think DL will refocus on LAX in a bigger way than they have...They've also been hinting that LatAm and South America will be the new battleground.

DL's already pursued LAX unsuccessfully (inaugurating & dropping BDL, RDU, GRU, etc.; even classic markets such as MEX were dumped). Like any other market, LAX will continue to be tinkered with, but I strongly doubt there will be a "big" focus. As it is, the development of NYC and re-creation of the network (with larger jets) are two daunting tasks that will suck capital for years.

Focusing on LatAm & South America from JFK would suck even additional funds. The two markets are largely tapped out from ATL, and DL isn't going to be pursing a FLL/MIA strategy. Development takes time and MIA has too many constraints - not to mention exploding costs within the next few years that would make any venture into S.FL risky.
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usdcaguy
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:48 am

The problem with LAX is that there is little corporate traffic in that area compared to other cities up the coast. Unlike SFO, it does not have the big IT firms to help drive business to Asia, so I'm not sure where the growth will come from. Also, there are so many carriers in LAX competing for both domestic and international business that I'm not sure if new flights (especially domestic) would be that profitable. It seems to me that it might be better for DL to focus on maximizing the flights it has out of NYC and ensuring they are getting the premium business. That might be a more profitable use of resources than a new investment in LAX, especially if those efforts were to attract a lot of low fares that trash yields.

As far as new cities go, I see DL continuing to build its presence in SEA and PDX (what it will do with AS is up in the air). It could also consider strengthening its position at RDU. Those markets are likely more profitable than LAX, although I'm not sure it has had that much luck out of RDU beyond its hub flying.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:49 am

The reason DL is so profitable is because they cut flights in places like CVG, LAX and MEM. Adding flights to those cities and adding MKE just makes DL unprofitable again.
 
NWAESC
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:21 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):
you think they may re-add flights to CVG again?

I personally don't see it happening. I think they've got CVG optimized to about where it needs to be as far as meeting traffic needs. As others have noted, a lot of the flying that was once done ex- CVG is now done thorugh other hubs.

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 3):
Personally, I think Milwaukee, seeing as they already announced that they would have a greater presence there.

Maybe a targeted new city or two, and an increase in A/C size, but not much else. JMHO...
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STT757
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:15 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
They have NYC sewed up for now

UA serves 7 million more passengers per year in the NYC market then DL.
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commavia
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:36 pm

I agree that Delta is like to focus more energy in coming years on LAX and Latin America, although I question how successful they will be at either.

LAX is going to be an uphill climb because that market is just like New York - huge, but highly fragmented with several other very large, strong players, but unlike New York Delta cannot realistically "buy" their market share as they have done to some extent in New York with the slot swap.

In Latin America, I think Delta is going to try and do what every U.S. airline has done, which is to further develop their business in one of the fastest-growing and economically strongest regions in the world in recent years. The challenge I think they will face, however, is that I see little potential for organic growth in ATL beyond the already-substantial growth Delta has had there in the last 10-15 years, which leaves growth from other markets, but all of those other hypothetical markets (like JFK, LAX or, as some on A.net regularly suggest, MIA) area also highly competitive.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
UA serves 7 million more passengers per year in the NYC market then DL.

Exactly. 20% of a market constitutes having it "sewn up," especially when another competitor has 25% market share and two others both have more than 10% each?

  
 
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STT757
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:47 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
Exactly. 20% of a market constitutes having it "sewn up," especially when another competitor has 25% market share and two others both have more than 10% each?

Total passengers (EWR, JFK, LGA, SWF)

UA:
27,7121885

DL:
21,029,698

B6:
14,235,512

AA:
14,216,525


EWR, JFK, LGA, SWF ranking by cargo ton:

FX:
514,247

UPS:
176,904

AA:
120,415

UA:
103,964

DL:
99,480

LH:
78,950
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
With AA in shambles, I smell a MIA hub takeover soon  

That was my thought right out of the gate as well.
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bobnwa
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:57 pm

I believe that Delta will build up Boston because of a couple of reasons ie, outstanding facility and Delta's historical strength in Boston
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:10 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 17):

Again the reason DL is profitable is because theyve abandon places like BOS as focus cities. Expand in BOS and take on JetBlue and Delta loses money. Delta should just keep doing what they're doing and ignore a.net advice and predictions.
 
panamair
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
UA serves 7 million more passengers per year in the NYC market then DL

That gap obviously does not yet reflect the full result of the US-DL slot swap.

[Edited 2012-10-03 06:24:21]
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:22 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 19):

The slot swap isn't worth 7m pax in volume. Yes Delta will go up but the slot swap won't get them past UA
 
panamair
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 19):
The slot swap isn't worth 7m pax in volume. Yes Delta will go up but the slot swap won't get them past UA

Nobody said it was going to get them past UA, but the gap should narrow to around 4 million+ when all is said and done.
 
commavia
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:26 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 18):
That gap obviously does not reflect the result of the US-DL slot swap.

True, but even with that, Delta still likely won't be as large as United, and JetBlue and AA will still both have substantial market share in New York. Nobody is debating that Delta's market share in New York has been, and is, growing, but calling the market "sewn up" for Delta is just not factual.
 
lhcvg
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4):
As it is, DL is pitting LGA against CVG. I don't see them "reviving" anything. There are more and more connection opportunities being offered through LGA that traditionally flew through CVG.
Quoting NWAESC (Reply 12):
I personally don't see it happening. I think they've got CVG optimized to about where it needs to be as far as meeting traffic needs. As others have noted, a lot of the flying that was once done ex- CVG is now done thorugh other hubs.

These are the keys to CVG's coffin being nailed shut - that flying has been replaced by substitute hubs that work just as well if not better for them (esp. DTW, but also spread across the others). Of course DL COULD go back and add flights, but I think substantial additions are out of the question because they've simply gone so far away from that at this point. Shuttering OH is yet another indication. In other words, DL has moved on after the "breakup" with CVG, and has learned how to live without them.

Now all of that said, more service from other carriers is a definite possibility. It will be very interesting to watch how this plays out between the incumbents and new entrants (the long-rumored "inevitable" WN arrival, possible B6, etc.). The key as a CVG fan is to realize that CVG is not and will not be a focus city or otherwise a major station for anyone. However, the future is most certainly looking bright, as DL's stranglehold has been broken, and we are likely to see additional service and new carriers going forward. Eventually CVG will become much more like CMH, where there isn't a hegemonic carrier, but where the overall service offered is excellent and diverse across carriers. But that is a good thing for us. I've said this before and I'll say it again: DL's pulldown leaves numerous opportunities for other carriers to begin making inroads on various routes like DCA, SFO, PHX, ORD, etc. where DL is relatively less strong than LGA, LAX, BOS, and the like.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
With AA in shambles, I smell a MIA hub takeover soon

This was mentioned the other day by someone on here, but the truth is that MIA (both the market and the airport itself) has enough spare capacity for someone else to step up a focus city or minihub anytime they want. It would just take a little effort to do so. Not to say it isn't necessarily more likely due to bk and distraction at AA, but there hasn't been and isn't still anything stopping someone else from doing so.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:52 pm

THere was a long debate in another thread about it ....but MIA MIA MIA......DL wants it bad. Personally, i think they will make a move on it if at all possible, in addition to slowly expanding LAX....
NYC gives them Europe, MIA will give them LatAm/Caribbean and Africa, LAX will give them Asia.....ATL, SLC, DTW and MSP take care of the domestic with some overflow international. And CVG gives them a little gravy.
THat to me sounds like a nice well rounded plan that can withstand shock events that don't involve the entire world. FOr example, crisis in Europe? Lat Am keep the profit going. Asian SARS....Europe keeps DL afloat.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 3):
They've also been hinting that LatAm and South America will be the new battleground.

It already is.
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OOer
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:09 pm

My guess is that DL will focus on SEA and BOS next. But there's still lot's of work to do in NYC. Once the economy picks up we can expect some international markets to come back that have gotten the axe in the past 2-3 years.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:19 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 21):
Nobody is debating that Delta's market share in New York has been, and is, growing, but calling the market "sewn up" for Delta is just not factual.

When have facts ever gotten in the way of peoples' beliefs on ANet?
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lhcvg
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 20):
Nobody said it was going to get them past UA, but the gap should narrow to around 4 million+ when all is said and done.

Word on here is that UA and AA also have qualitative advantage in corporate contracts vs. DL in NYC. This continues to shrink as well, but I think DL has to continue stealing a few of these lucrative contracts to really close the gap decisively.
 
compensateme
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
THere was a long debate in another thread about it ....but MIA MIA MIA......DL wants it bad.
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 22):
This was mentioned the other day by someone on here, but the truth is that MIA (both the market and the airport itself) has enough spare capacity for someone else to step up a focus city or minihub anytime they want.

I've never seen any evidence to suggest DL's interested in MIA -- just some ramblings on a.net. ATL can serve most all the non-Florida bound traffic MIA handles, and at a much cheaper cost (MIA's already the costliest airport to operate from, and its costs are going to soar in the upcoming years due to the massive overruns of AA's complex). If DL goes head-to-head with AA and the LatAm carriers, it's going to be a fiscally bloody battle -- and one DL would likely lose.

I do think Caribbean expansion (mainly from ATL) is on the horizon, a la US @ CLT. DL's intent of fully leveraging its wholly-owned Delta Vacations brand, and now offers bulk fares to most Caribbean markets. This is important since the margins of package components are huge, often 40% or more in places like the Riviera Maya and Punta Cana. Somebody dropping a couple thousand dollars per week at the "luxury" resorts is also dropping a large chunk of change into DL's pockets.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 22):
However, the future is most certainly looking bright, as DL's stranglehold has been broken, and we are likely to see additional service and new carriers going forward.

The problem is, DL continues to sit on oodles of capacity at CVG, especially to places rich in local traffic. Service levels at CVG have held strong over the past year -- the most stable they've been since DL entered bankruptcy many years ago. While it's probable further reductions will occur as DL replaces 50-seat regional jets (e.g. a single daily CRJ to GSO), unless DL rescinds capacity elsewhere, I seriously doubt another carrier will challenge it.
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lhcvg
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:01 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 27):
If DL goes head-to-head with AA and the LatAm carriers, it's going to be a fiscally bloody battle -- and one DL would likely lose.

For sure. I never said it would be easy, or that DL specifically would go after it, but MIA could handle another focus city.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 27):
The problem is, DL continues to sit on oodles of capacity at CVG, especially to places rich in local traffic. Service levels at CVG have held strong over the past year -- the most stable they've been since DL entered bankruptcy many years ago. While it's probable further reductions will occur as DL replaces 50-seat regional jets (e.g. a single daily CRJ to GSO), unless DL rescinds capacity elsewhere, I seriously doubt another carrier will challenge it.

I agree DL still sits on a lot of O&D there. My take is simply that as time goes on, DL is going to be less willing to fight tooth and nail for every route so it's easier than in the past for another carrier to challenge - should they choose to do so. Two examples I use are SFO and DCA - DL probably makes a decent buck on CVG-DCA, but if US decided to really go after that route, would DL fight to the last against a US push? I don't know if they would go to all lengths to defend that anymore. Likewise, DL will probably keep LAX for all eternity, but if for example UA wanted to start SFO (not saying they will, just as a hypothetical), does DL have enough invested in SFO generally and CVG-SFO in particular to defeat a concerted effort by UA to make a go of that route?

In short, my take is that DL still has advantages and will defend their CVG turf, but with the drawdown and focus elsewhere, there are simply now some limits as to how far they will go to defend it IF someone wants to fight them for some of these less critical (to DL) routes. Not saying they don't dervive substantial value from DCA or SFO for example, but those aren't key cornerstones of their network or of CVG service like LGA, BOS, LAX, MCO are.
 
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b727fa
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:07 pm

My guess is that at most CVG could see some limited up-gauging of some "major" routes currently run with LRJ's...but it's profitable at its current status.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:12 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 22):
With AA in shambles, I smell a MIA hub takeover soon

This was mentioned the other day by someone on here, but the truth is that MIA (both the market and the airport itself) has enough spare capacity for someone else to step up a focus city or minihub anytime they want.

The days of legacy airlines opening new hubs are over. Delta would lose a bucketload in MIA competing against AA. AA has all the corporate contracts in MIA.
 
lhcvg
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 30):
The days of legacy airlines opening new hubs are over. Delta would lose a bucketload in MIA competing against AA. AA has all the corporate contracts in MIA.

I agree. The point of the statement I referenced was that there doesn't have to be a formal takeover of AA's MIA hub - another airline could simply add service to select destinations at will given the size of the market. The problem is, as you say, that AA holds the contracts down there, which makes that a tough proposition for the lucrative business traffic.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:02 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 27):
I've never seen any evidence to suggest DL's interested in MIA

I have....unfortunately I cannot share.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 27):
This is important since the margins of package components are huge, often 40% or more in places like the Riviera Maya and Punta Cana.

MLT (DL Vacations) usually negotiates discounts/comissions/net rates 30-40% off the rack...but by they time they pay the retail travel agent etc it is usually closer to a 20% margin for them
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totesen
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:03 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 8):
DL's already pursued LAX unsuccessfully (inaugurating & dropping BDL, RDU, GRU, etc.; even classic markets such as MEX were dumped).

The sad part is that Alaska now has the MEX rights, and they will not get them back. But their parthner AM, has nearly 5 daily from MEX. plus GDL, MTY HMO and some other Mexican destinations from LAX.
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jetlanta
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Total passengers (EWR, JFK, LGA, SWF)

UA:
27,7121885

DL:
21,029,698

B6:
14,235,512

AA:
14,216,525


EWR, JFK, LGA, SWF ranking by cargo ton:

FX:
514,247

UPS:
176,904

AA:
120,415

UA:
103,964

DL:
99,480

LH:
78,950

How about posting O&D numbers after a full year of DL LGA ops? The numbers you posted are about as worthless as comparing Pan Am's share to TWA's. And traffic isn't the full picture since UA handles far more connecting paxs at EWR than DL does at LGA/JFK. Local O&D is the real story and by the time the slot swap is completely baked in, DL and UA are going to be very close in NYC. Certainly that is obvious.
 
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fxramper
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:02 pm

what is this grand expansion you speak of at JFK? outside of a new terminal (not even sure what that is) they dump routes like the flavor of the week. NRT, IST, PRG, etc.
 
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STT757
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 34):
How about posting O&D numbers after a full year of DL LGA ops? The numbers you posted are about as worthless as comparing Pan Am's share to TWA's. And traffic isn't the full picture since UA handles far more connecting paxs at EWR than DL does at LGA/JFK. Local O&D is the real story and by the time the slot swap is completely baked in, DL and UA are going to be very close in NYC. Certainly that is obvious.

How much more narrow does DL have to get to "win New Yok"? By excluding EWR they "Win", by not counting O&D they "Win", by coming second place with 7 million less passengers they "win". Just catching up is not "winning", it's doing better then they were. But I guess that makes for crappy adverstisements:

"DL in New York, we're doing better"..

LOL!...
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deltal1011man
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:56 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 1):

No.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 8):
RDU,

Still has flights to LAX.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 8):
even classic markets such as MEX were dumped)

in the 90s.....hope your not using that to compare anything.

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
LAX is going to be an uphill climb because that market is just like New York - huge, but highly fragmented with several other very large, strong players, but unlike New York Delta cannot realistically "buy" their market share as they have done to some extent in New York with the slot swap.

errr Delta was already number 2 in NYC before the slot swap. They have gates and airplanes....and assuming money....then they can build a little more of what they have in LA. (Delta will never have the flight numbers in LA unless they were to buy AS and AA....and I still don't think they would have the room for the flights.)
LAX and NYC wont be apples to apples. If/when they add at LA then you can look for some more major markets, maybe some flights to Asia and thats about it. Anything more than ~75 flights would be shocking.


me personally I think Delta's next step will be more consolidation.  
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compensateme
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 37):
in the 90s.....hope your not using that to compare anything.

2005 was in the 1990s?  
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:16 pm

Everyone in typical a.net fashion expets Delta to expand for the sake of out pleasure.

I think we will see the move to an even leaner airline over time. LGA was just a rare opportunity to get something rare and trade something valuable that they didnt want. No CVG major expansion, no LAX, no MKE, no MIA nothing major. I think the focus is on profits and Delta does not care at all about being the largest except when the advertising helps them create a larger base like in NYC etc I bet we see delta do even more canceling flights for two months or one or two days a week to really maximize profits more than add some new exciting thing for a.net pleasure.
 
Ezra
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:23 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 37):
me personally I think Delta's next step will be more consolidation.  

I agree. They have first-mover status (and a quality job at that) in the m&a game to leverage.
 
lhcvg
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:24 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 39):
I bet we see delta do even more canceling flights for two months or one or two days a week to really maximize profits more than add some new exciting thing for a.net pleasure.

I haven't seen DL's guidance for this year, but on one of the recent UA investor calls, their guys mentioned an expectation of capacity being "essentially flat, with a slight downward bias", and then later confirmed that there will be slight reductions in FY13. I would say it is a good bet DL will do the same, as you point out.
 
Prost
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:24 pm

DL will begin their ticket lobby remodelling in SEA shortly at a cost of ~$18 Million. They've recently opened a new skyclub in Seattle as well. I think its fair to say they will try an grow SEA operations modestly. Perhaps one to two international flights per year for the next few years. Nothing dramatic, no full on hub status, just more international flights, especially if they are within range of the 767.
 
compensateme
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:48 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 28):
Two examples I use are SFO and DCA

The problem is, CVG is a small market. US could upgrade its flights to 333 but it won't stimulate traffic -- only launching a price war will. And CVG's too insignificant for that to happen. Among incumbent carriers, I wouldn't forecast any expansion, sans a frequency to PHX on US. New service will come, but with DL's dominance on the local business community + airlines like WN already relying on CVG leakage at nearby airports, it'll most likely be a slow process. I do believe future service reductions are in store for CVG, but I strongly believe it'll be a sizable, strong station into the distant future. One thing to remember is should CVG be de-hubbed by DL, service to places like SFO -- on any airline -- wouldn't exist. SFO is a long, thin flight and there's no comparable city to CVG with nonstop service but lacking a hub.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 32):
MLT (DL Vacations) usually negotiates discounts/comissions/net rates 30-40% off the rack...but by they time they pay the retail travel agent etc it is usually closer to a 20% margin for them

While my knowledge of this side of the business isn't that strong, I've heard from credible sources that the margins on high-end properties in specific places can be as high as 40% or more. The D.R. in general (Punta Cana, Puerto Plata, etc.) was known for many years for providing high margins to tour operators, although I have no idea if that's still the case. One thing's for certain: DL has slapped the Delta Vacations (and United Vacations, Aeromexico Vacations) brand on a sleezy tour operator throughout Cancun, Punta Cana, etc.
Gordo:like this streaming video,Sky magazine,meals for sale at mealtime-make customer satisfaction rank so high at UA
 
lhcvg
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 43):

I never said it was likely, I am merely making the point that resources are scarce and that when you de-hub, you aren't going to fight to the last dollar for everything anymore. In the unlikely event someone wanted to fight DL, my point is that they wouldn't engage in as deep a price war anymore, and would cede that ground eventually on less critical routes. They have a nice thing going because they get to squat on various routes that aren't big or lucrative enough to entice anyone to fight for them, but if that day does come, you'll see DL drop some routes rather than fight. I agree CVG is a small market, and that's the point - with the hub gone DL is no longer guaranteed to be the one flying everything.

I should add that my choice of these examples wasn't to overemphasize them over others, but because they are both places where a competitor is stronger on the other end (UA and US respectively) than DL is on either end, and neither is a critical "cornerstone" of DL's network. PHX also falls in the same category, with the caveat that it is more of a leisure market.

[Edited 2012-10-03 13:48:13]
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6):
With AA in shambles, I smell a MIA hub takeover soon

MIA is weird in the fact that every airline that has had a hub there, namely PA and AA, have made it their own and no one elses. UA tried to push in either a year or 2 before 9/11 or a year or 2 after 9/11, can't remember right now. AA pushed out UA. DL tried to make a move more recently, before the NW merger, and AA pushed them out. Also, MIA was PA's last major hub before they kicked the bucket. Then AA bought it after PA liquidated. The only one that seems to be in the best place to get MIA, IMO, is US, IF that merger actually happens.

Otherwise, here is my list of DL's next places to focus on, in chances of probability.
1. LAX
2. SEA
3. Mexico, with the AM JV
4. South America
And way out in left field,
5. CVG revival
And even way farther out in left field,
6. MEM revival
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
usairways787
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
What will be the next strategic push?

DFW      
"Pre departure walk around complete, all doors closed, ready for pushback"
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:55 pm

Quoting usairways787 (Reply 46):

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
What will be the next strategic push?

DFW

I smell a bloodbath coming.     
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
FL787
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 43):
One thing to remember is should CVG be de-hubbed by DL, service to places like SFO -- on any airline -- wouldn't exist. SFO is a long, thin flight and there's no comparable city to CVG with nonstop service but lacking a hub.

I disagree. PIT and STL aren't that much different from a de-hubbed CVG and both manage a UA flight to SFO.
 
tommy767
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RE: What Will DL Do After NYC?

Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:01 pm

I actually don't think NYC is anywhere near complete yet. I think in the coming years you will see more mainline out of LGA replacing smaller CRJs. Perhaps EWR-CDG will be added if the economy ever bounces back.

Anybody know how the flights out of LAX on DLX are doing? Perhaps the best way to compete with AA and UA is not on spoke routes to BDL, IND, and PHL but to more short haul routes out of LAX.

SEA is a given but only to a certain extent. I dare bring up DL's secret fascination with merging with AS and having a complete coastal hub to themselves to compete against UA at SFO.

I think DL at MIA is a losing battle. Unless AA gets weak, and I'm talking so weak they are liquidating Pan Am style, then that's when DL can step in and take charge.
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