rikkus67
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Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:03 pm

We all enjoyed the ribbing given to Delta Air Lines about having 3 simultaneous different versions of their livery at the same time. The interesting thing is...it happened before! Doing a random search of 1960's livery, I came across at least a 4-livery variation from 1967 (my birth year)... granted it seems to be more model specific. This was around the start of the well-loved "widget" livery, and like Air Canada...you can appreciate that there was an evolution of the scheme.


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aloges
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:15 pm

IIRC, the widget pointed forward on the T-tailed aircraft and upward on the others. But more importantly:
Dear Delta, can we have some retrojets?  
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:24 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
Dear Delta, can we have some retrojets?  

I would LOVE that. I don't see it happening sadly. You can always see the Spirit of Delta (767-200, widget livery) at the Delta Museum in ATL. They even have a DL DC-3. Pretty cool if you're ever in ATL and you are around during their weird opening hours
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
questions
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:33 am

Similar to AZ's current updated livery, it would have been nice if DL simply updated the 1962-1997 Widget Livery.
 
milesrich
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:41 am

Those were really three different liveries, the DC-9 and DC-8 having the same one, but the horizontal widget being placed on the DC-9. The origin is as follows: DC-7 is in the classic Flying D scheme introduced in the early 1950's with a white crown on the fuselage for lower temperatures while on the ground. All Delta recips had this scheme and were retired with it, the last aircraft to wear the scheme, the Convair 340/440 being retired in 1970.

The Convair 880 was delivered in this livery, which was different than the original DC-8 scheme. However, in the late 60's, the CV-880's were repainted and put in the same livery as the DC-8-51 shown above.

The DC-8-51 is in the original version of what A.netters call the classic livery. The only major change was the change for the fully spelled out "Delta Air Lines" to just "Delta", and the elimination of the small lettered "Fanjet" on the tail. Other than that, this livery graced the DC-8-51, DC-8-33, DC-8-61 (all of which only wore this scheme with Delta), the Convair 880 before retirement, the DC9-10, -32, 31, and MD-88, MD-90, MD-11, DC-10, L-1011, B-727-95, -295, 232, B-737-232, 247, 347, B-767-232, -332, B-757-232, B-747-132, A-310. In 2001, the L-1011's still wore this scheme when they were retired.

The sideways widget was discontinued and was replaced with the more conventional upright Widget, on Douglas and Boeing T-tail aircraft.

I never liked the 1996 of 1997 Ron Allen livery, and many aircraft went from the classic Widget shown above directly to Leo Mullin's wavey Gravy.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:54 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Pretty cool if you're ever in ATL and you are around during their weird opening hours

Any chance they're open this Sunday or Monday?
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
Superfly
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:09 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):
Dear Delta, can we have some retrojets?

Would be nice if they did their 747-400s in a retro livery instead of a A320 or 737.
The only airline I know of tha has a retro 747 livery is Thai Airways.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 4):
I never liked the 1996 of 1997 Ron Allen livery

That was a tasteful livery change but still not as nice as the previous classic livery.
Every livery since then has just been plane generic and boring.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:32 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Would be nice if they did their 747-400s in a retro livery instead of a A320 or 737.
The only airline I know of tha has a retro 747 livery is Thai Airways.

They have 16 747s, right? What would be great would be if they did a Heritage/Retro 747 for every airline they merged with and/or bought off a large part of (admittedly mainly so we could have a PA 744,  ). If we run out before we get to 16, then we can backfill the rest of the 747 fleet w/ retro DL & NW liveries. I think that would be boss.
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
Josh32121
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:47 am

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 5):
Any chance they're open this Sunday or Monday?

There's actually an airline collectibles show and sale on Saturday starting at 9:00 (a day they're not usually open). I'll be there! Go here for more information: http://deltamuseum.org/
 
Superfly
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:00 pm

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 7):
What would be great would be if they did a Heritage/Retro 747 for every airline they merged with and/or bought off a large part of (admittedly mainly so we could have a PA 744, ). If we run out before we get to 16, then we can backfill the rest of the 747 fleet w/ retro DL & NW liveries. I think that would be boss.

In that case, let's see Delta do a retro DC-9 in Republic colors.  
Bring back the Concorde
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
In that case, let's see Delta do a retro DC-9 in Republic colors.

Go back a little further in time and revive the Northeast Yellowbird scheme on a DC-9.


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maxpower1954
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:48 pm

I still think the 45 year old Northeast Yellowbird livery looks fresh and modern. It would fit right into today's world.
 
Griffair
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting milesrich (Reply 4):
The only major change was the change for the fully spelled out "Delta Air Lines" to just "Delta", and the elimination of the small lettered "Fanjet" on the tail.

Actually, all DC-8-51's carried the Fanjet logo on the vertical stab (and next to the L1 door) up until the remainder were parked in Oct/Nov 1979. The DC-8-33's from Pan American never had Fanjet on them, since they were older water cooled turbojets. The word "Jetliner" graced a couple of Delta 8's in the same spot as Fanjet. These were the originally delivered DC-8's that were painted in the new livery in 1963 to coincide with the first DC-8-51 (Fanjet) delivery. Once these originals were quickly modified to -51 specs with Fanjets, the logo changed from "Jetliner" to "Fanjet".
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Every livery since then has just been plane generic and boring.

I thought the 'Deltaflot' or 'beach towel' livery was distinctive. Too bad it reminded employees of Leo Mullin's management - which they didn't like - and (I'm told) was more expensive to apply than the newer 'Citgo' flying widget.
 
Superfly
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):
Go back a little further in time and revive the Northeast Yellowbird scheme on a DC-9.

I am loving that Aeroflot IL-62 in the background as well as that Air Canada Convair(?).

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 13):
'Citgo' flying widget.

Haha that does look like the Citgo logo.
Bring back the Concorde
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:08 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):
Go back a little further in time and revive the Northeast Yellowbird scheme on a DC-9.

I am loving that Aeroflot IL-62 in the background as well as that Air Canada Convair(?).

Superfly,

The Air Canada aircraft is a Vickers Vanguard.

The Vanguard was Vickers' successor to the Viscount; it was roughly the size of the Lockheed Electra. Only two airlines, BEA and Trans Canada / Air Canada, took delivery of Vanguards from the factory, but Vanguards were subsequently flown by many other airlines as BEA and AC phased out their fleets.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
Superfly
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 15):
The Air Canada aircraft is a Vickers Vanguard.



Thanks for the correction.
Air Canada should have a retro livery as well. I'm not a fan of the current breath-mint color scheme.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:14 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
Air Canada should have a retro livery as well. I'm not a fan of the current breath-mint color scheme.

Like this one?


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airlinereporter
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:18 pm

It would be great to see a Delta retro livery, but the current CEO does not want to have different liveries in the fleet. Other than SkyTeam and the pink livery, I don't think there are any others?
 
audidudi
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:39 pm

DL could also do what BA did with one of their Concordes; it was painted in BA colours on one side, and SIA colours on the other side! Also AF painted one of theirs in Pepsi Cola colours. I'm sure there are photos on a.net.
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting AirlineReporter (Reply 18):
It would be great to see a Delta retro livery, but the current CEO does not want to have different liveries in the fleet. Other than SkyTeam and the pink livery, I don't think there are any others?

Is the Habitat for Humanity scheme still flying around?

Pic. taken June 16, 2012

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Superfly
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
Like this one?

Oh wow. Didn't even know about that one.
I was thinking of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau era livery.

Quoting AirlineReporter (Reply 18):
the pink livery

What on earth is that all about?
I think that is so unattractive.
Bring back the Concorde
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:10 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
What on earth is that all about?

It's likely in reference to Susan G. Komen and/or Breast Cancer Awareness.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 8):

Damn..., I don't even get in until 4.00P
Be A Perfectionst, You're Nothing If You're Just Another; Something Material, This Isn't Personal...
 
deltadc9
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting AirlineReporter (Reply 18):
It would be great to see a Delta retro livery, but the current CEO does not want to have different liveries in the fleet. Other than SkyTeam and the pink livery, I don't think there are any others?

If true, that is a shame, just one or a few jets would attract a lot of attention IMO. Isn't that the whole point of a livery?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 20):
Is the Habitat for Humanity scheme still flying around?

I saw it parked at a gate at CVG on Tuesday.
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Would be nice if they did their 747-400s in a retro livery instead of a A320 or 737.

Dear sweet God in heaven, YES! Would KILL to see a DL 747 in that scheme again, like in the good ol' days!!
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
airlinereporter
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:36 pm

Quoting deltadc9 (Reply 24):
If true, that is a shame, just one or a few jets would attract a lot of attention IMO. Isn't that the whole point of a livery?

Agreed, but I think his view point is keeping the brand recognition. All of us AvGeeks can see all the special liveries and know what airline it belongs to, but not everyone is going to realize that.

David
 
Viscount724
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:08 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 15):
The Vanguard was Vickers' successor to the Viscount; it was roughly the size of the Lockheed Electra.

The Vanguard was actually quite a bit bigger than the Electra. A few numbers (rounded off)

...........................Vanguard.... Electra
Overall length.......123 ft..........104 ft.
Wingspan.............119 ft............99 ft.
MTOW...............141,000 lb...113,000 lb
Max certified
seating....................139............ 99

The Vanguard's "double bubble" fuselage design gave it much larger cargo capacity than the Electra, and the fuselage was wide enough for 6-abreast seating vs. 5-abreast for the Electra. I flew on both TCA/AC and BEA Vanguards. AC's were much nicer as they had spacious 5-abreast seating in Y class compared to BEA's 6-abreast.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:11 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 1):

no. No retros. Put the hole friggin fleet back into the widget and cut out the cute crap. Not a "update" or "making it fresh".....Find some old dude in the paint shop at TOC and tell him to paint it like he did when TOC-III first opened.

Ok done ranting.
sorry I don't like the "fresh" look. I want the Delta I grew up flying back....start with that sexy widget

Quoting CF-CPI (Reply 13):

I thought the 'Deltaflot' or 'beach towel' livery was distinctive. Too bad it reminded employees of Leo Mullin's management - which they didn't like - and (I'm told) was more expensive to apply than the newer 'Citgo' flying widget.

it is.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 22):

BCRF.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 29):
Quoting aloges (Reply 1):no. No retros. Put the hole friggin fleet back into the widget and cut out the cute crap. Not a "update" or "making it fresh".....

DeltaL1011man, you and I almost NEVER agree, but this is one of those times!

Delta's 1970s era paint scheme still looks just as good as it did forty years ago. It is one of those rare paint schemes that is timeless. Paint every airplane in the fleet in that scheme, from 747-400s to Canadair RJ 100s!

Better yet, when the first aircraft in the fleet is repainted, invite the family of the late David Garrett to the unveiling, and imagine Mr. Garrett beaming with pride in heaven.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
milesrich
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting GriffAir (Reply 12):
Quoting milesrich (Reply 4):
The only major change was the change for the fully spelled out "Delta Air Lines" to just "Delta", and the elimination of the small lettered "Fanjet" on the tail.

Actually, all DC-8-51's carried the Fanjet logo on the vertical stab (and next to the L1 door) up until the remainder were parked in Oct/Nov 1979. The DC-8-33's from Pan American never had Fanjet on them, since they were older water cooled turbojets. The word "Jetliner" graced a couple of Delta 8's in the same spot as Fanjet. These were the originally delivered DC-8's that were painted in the new livery in 1963 to coincide with the first DC-8-51 (Fanjet) delivery. Once these originals were quickly modified to -51 specs with Fanjets, the logo changed from "Jetliner" to "Fanjet".

I was not just referring to the DC-8-51. The word fanjet was not on the DC-8-33's or the Convair 880 once they were repainted in the widget scheme, because they were NOT fan jets. From looking at various photos, it appears that FanJet stayed on the DC-8-61's but was removed when they were converted to DC-8-71's; however, DC-9-14's, DC-9-32's, DC-9-31's,727-295's, -95's, -232's, and 247's never said fanjet on the tail as the DC-8-51 and -61's did, nor did the 757, 767, 737, 747, etc. That is what I meant. In other words, only the DC-8-51's and -61's carried the FanJet script. On the DC-8-51, this was a distinction when other airlines such as Eastern and United were operating large fleets of JT-4 straight jet powered DC-8-21's, while Delta was the only airline to convert their entire fleet of about 7 aircraft from -12's to -51 fanjets. All the other aircraft that never carried the moniker, except the DC-8-61, were all fanjets on every airline so there was no need to distinguish them. With the DC-8-61's, perhaps someone said, we need to carry forward the fanjet designation to be consistent.

None of the DC-8's were 'water cooled". The JT-3 powered Series 11 & 12's only flown by UA and DL, used water injection to increase the thrust of the engines on takeoff. The JT-4 Series 20's were not fan jets but did not have or need water injection to increase thrust. Same applies to 707's. Only the JT-3 powered series -100's flown by AA, WA Transworld Airlines (USA)">TW, CO, PA, and WA ever had water injection. AA, and PA, like Delta, converted theirs to JT-3D fanjet power. CO got rid of theirs in the late 60's,WA's were leased and transferred to PA that did convert one of the two, N778PA, while N779PA was destroyed in a landing accident without casualties at JFK on 4-7-64. WA Transworld Airlines (USA)">TW never converted theirs and were the only airline to keep the water wagons for more than a few years. I believe TWA even bought the three 707-124's that were not destroyed in accidents, one sabotage near Unionville,MO, and one in a landing accident at MKC.

United some of their DC-8-11/12 water wagons to -51 fanjet power, the vast majority were converted to Series -21 JT-4's. They were the only airline to do this, and I have never figured out why. Maybe they got the engines for less, but 15 years later, when fuel went up, the Series 20 JT-4 ships were grounded first, while the Series 50 JT-3D's soldiered on until 1980-81.
 
Griffair
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:23 am

Quoting milesrich (Reply 31):
I was not just referring to the DC-8-51.
Quoting milesrich (Reply 4):
The DC-8-51 is in the original version of what A.netters call the classic livery. The only major change was the change for the fully spelled out "Delta Air Lines" to just "Delta", and the elimination of the small lettered "Fanjet" on the tail.

Sorry , I read it otherwise.

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
since they were older water cooled turbojets.

Boy, my bad, was thinking of my Silverado radiator. I'll do better next time.


Anyway, great post, you are obviously correct and on top of your details
 
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:15 am

Quoting rikkus67 (Thread starter):



The beloved widget came with the arrival of the DC-8. Actually a couple years into their service. Around the early 1960's.
At first, DL 8's had this livery:

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A very cool pic with Eastern Golden Falcon Prop Jet Electra's and TWA air stairs for their hard stand. Wow talk about a Mr. Peabody way back in the time machine trip!

This pic was from 1959.

The classic old school DL livery retired when DL axed any main line bird with a propeller. DL did not do what Pan Am and Eastern to name a few did and apply the newer livery to their prop liners. DL originally put in orders for the Electra but opted out due to delivery constrains. Had DL taken delivery of the turboprop would they wear the classic propliner old school livery or one of the updated jet liveries possibly including the widget?
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
Yukon880
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RE: Delta (livery) History Repeated Itself

Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:01 am

Quoting milesrich (Reply 31):
...while Delta was the only airline to convert their entire fleet of about 7 aircraft from -12's to -51 fanjets.

Miles,

So very close to precise...

A total of six DC-8-11s (later converted to -12s) delivered to Delta in the original batch, all of which were deliveries vacated by Eastern in favor of the "more powerful" DC-8-21. Delta's seventh DC-8, N807E was the first factory to Delta DC-8-51 FanJet and is believed to be the first aircraft to wear the iconic "Widget" scheme. The earlier batch of six turbojet Delta DC-8s were later converted to DC-8-51 FanJet status and repainted in what would become the "standard" livery.

Years later Delta would add DC-8-51 N8008D/ "Ship One" to the Widget fleet, however that was years and several airline operators after this ship was converted to FanJet configuration.

Yukon
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