RCS763AV
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Colombian Aviation #11

Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Since the last thread passed 200 replies, it's time for a new installment. Can't believe we've made it to #11!

Last ideas on the #10 topic were the changes in the domestic schedule, including the new applications to Aerocivil, mainly for domestic routes by Easyfly and Avianca and the decreases and increases in the LAN network as they continue to adjust.

On the international side, there will be some frequency increases by AV, LH is going daily to BOG starting with the winter schedule and B6 is launching JFK-CTG.

BOG is getting a new state of the air traffic control centre, which hasn't been free of controversy due to the cost.

To a good discussion!
 
SXDFC
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:41 am

I can't remember or recall where I saw it but, I believe there was talk of AV getting a new color scheme, or at least looking into it, can anyone confirm?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
troest
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:41 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 1):
I can't remember or recall where I saw it but, I believe there was talk of AV getting a new color scheme, or at least looking into it, can anyone confirm?

No official statements on the new livery for AVTA. At this moment an AV A332 is being re-painted in Star Alliance livery, and will be the first A332 transferred to TA Peru. Rumors says, they will keep the AV livery and have TA interior.

[Edited 2012-10-08 03:14:42]
 
A388
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:19 pm

I don't think AV's livery needs updating. I think SXDFC may be confused with TA might be getting the AV livery seeing that the decision to keep the AV brand alone has been taken now.

I bought an AV 787 scale model when I was in BOG a few months ago and noticed the Avianca titles are bigger but that is about the only change. Making the titles bigger is a good improvement. AV's current livery is very well identifiable and is one of the few brands that is so recognisable.

A388
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:07 pm

Hello All!

New Here, long time reader, I guess I never had the balls to sign up and comment on stuff.

I think we're facing some very interesting times in colombian aviation, Avianca's expansion, LAN's purchase of Aires, and the sustained growth of all the smaller carriers in the country, but most important of all is the job openings this has created, ten years ago Colombia was going through some very tough times, thankfully that is all behind us.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 1):

I hope AV doesn't change its livery, I personally think it looks good, but in truth anything after the Summa fiasco was going to be an improvement.

J.
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RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting trent772 (Reply 4):
Hello All!

New Here, long time reader, I guess I never had the balls to sign up and comment on stuff.

Welcome to the forum!

It's been officially announced (previously known) that the Avianca (Aerovías del Continente Americano) brand will be retained for all of the operations in the AviancaTaca group:

http://www.caracol.com.co/noticias/e...l-unica/20121010/nota/1776805.aspx

One of the A330s is receiving the Star livery in BOG and will be the one transferring to LIM shortly. It will be interesting to see how the re-branding is done to Tampa's upcoming A330Fs! Avianca Cargo? Aviancargo?
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:56 am

AV BOG-GIG goes from 5x to 7x weekly from December 17th: 319 all the way !
It would complement the existing TA LIM-GIG 7x weekly.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:49 am

I think it was a smart move on behalf of AV/TA lose the Taca part of the name, IMHO the key here was to keep one of the names instead of going with a full rebranding.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
Quote:
It will be interesting to see how the re-branding is done to Tampa's upcoming A330Fs! Avianca Cargo? Aviancargo?

I hope they paint Tampa's a330's in Avianca colors, they would look better than the boring white they have on their 67's now and it would allow them to continue moving forward towards having a single brand.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):
Quote:
One of the A330s is receiving the Star livery in BOG and will be the one transferring to LIM shortly.

Do you know which one it will be? I heard it was going to be N975AV but just a rumour, also where will they paint it? AVA's hangars at TPA aren't big enough to fit an A330. Maybe Tampa's hangar at RNG is big enough? I know its capable of fitting a B763 inside.

J.

[Edited 2012-10-11 02:52:50]
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troest
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:11 am

Quoting trent772 (Reply 7):
I think it was a smart move on behalf of AV/TA lose the Taca part of the name, IMHO the key here was to keep one of the names instead of going with a full rebranding.

And the unification of brands and livery to Avianca, will make it easier and faster to transfer more planes in the Synergy group.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 7):
Do you know which one it will be? I heard it was going to be N975AV but just a rumour, also where will they paint it? AVA's hangars at TPA aren't big enough to fit an A330. Maybe Tampa's hangar at RNG is big enough? I know its capable of fitting a B763 inside.

They say actually it is being re-painted in Star Alliance livery in MDE (RNG), and it is N279AV delivered to Avianca 14 January 2012.
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting troest (Reply 8):
Quote:
They say actually it is being re-painted in Star Alliance livery in MDE (RNG), and it is N279AV delivered to Avianca 14 January 2012.

Nice! One of the newer and also one of the lighter frames on AV's fleet.


From the rumour mill,

It has been said that the deal with ATR to replace the Fokker 50's has fallen apart, the reason? it appears Bombardier has not only agreed to handover the airplanes (Q400) for a great price but has also agreed to fix MZL and TCO's runways, the deal is for 10-12 planes but it can change to 20+ if LAN finally decides to pull out of the regional market. Again only a rumour, I think this is kind of interesting.

Thoughts?
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Avianca
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting trent772 (Reply 9):
Nice! One of the newer and also one of the lighter frames on AV's fleet.

maybe a hint for a sooner or later LIM-MAD ops?

cheers
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:04 am

Quoting trent772 (Reply 9):
It has been said that the deal with ATR to replace the Fokker 50's has fallen apart, the reason? it appears Bombardier has not only agreed to handover the airplanes (Q400) for a great price but has also agreed to fix MZL and TCO's runways, the deal is for 10-12 planes but it can change to 20+ if LAN finally decides to pull out of the regional market. Again only a rumour, I think this is kind of interesting.

Whoa! Where did you hear this? It's amazing news! The Dashes are very cool aircraft. Also, the fact that BBD would agree to extend the runways at MZL and TCO at their own cost means that they really want this deal!

I guess they're also aiming at some point to replace the regional ATR fleet in Central America.
 
troest
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:45 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
maybe a hint for a sooner or later LIM-MAD ops?

We will most likely see LIM-MAD in 2013. My guess first LIM-EZE, LIM-MIA, and LIM-GRU with the new A332. If TA (AV) plans to run daily LIM-MAD, at least two A332 should be available. And Synergy Group has more A330's on order. Let's see about long-haul fleet transfer/rotation after TA adopt AV's brand.
 
A388
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:21 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11):
Whoa! Where did you hear this? It's amazing news! The Dashes are very cool aircraft. Also, the fact that BBD would agree to extend the runways at MZL and TCO at their own cost means that they really want this deal!

Absolutely but I see a problem where AV can't match the demand on routes where the Q400 is too big. ATR gives them that flexibility with the ATR42 and ATR72 Next Gen. Fixing runways isn't going to bring down your costs if you use an aircraft that is too big for certain routes. From an appeal point of view, I do like the Q400.

A388
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 11):
Whoa! Where did you hear this? It's amazing news! The Dashes are very cool aircraft. Also, the fact that BBD would agree to extend the runways at MZL and TCO at their own cost means that they really want this deal!

It's not official, just a rumour for now, but the person I heard it from is very high up the organizational ladder, the part that excites me the most is actually not the airplane supplier, but the number of frames in the deal and the fact that it could double if Aires withdraws from the regional market, If this happens I think AV would jump right in and start doing a lot of regional flying (it's a gold mine!!), it was also mentioned that they're getting ready for the arrival of the "new airplane" and that next year no A330 copilots will transition to the left seat of the A320, they will be going to the left seat of the new turboprop instead.

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
Absolutely but I see a problem where AV can't match the demand on routes where the Q400 is too big. ATR gives them that flexibility with the ATR42 and ATR72 Next Gen. Fixing runways isn't going to bring down your costs if you use an aircraft that is too big for certain routes. From an appeal point of view, I do like the Q400.

Which routes are you referring to? The Fokker 50's are being mostly used to MZL as pretty much every other route has been upgraded to the A318, EJA, NVA for example, IBE is the next city to get A318 service once the apron is expanded as the runway is fully capable of handling the plane.
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RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:52 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
Absolutely but I see a problem where AV can't match the demand on routes where the Q400 is too big.
Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
ATR gives them that flexibility with the ATR42 and ATR72 Next Gen. Fixing runways isn't going to bring down your costs if you use an aircraft that is too big for certain routes.

The only route in the Avianca system that might not have enough traffic to warrant Q400 service at the current schedule might be CLO-TCO, but it could just be reduced from 2x to 1x daily and that's it. All of the other cities have sufficient traffic to warrant the Dashes, with maybe a few tweaks in the schedule but nothing major.

Also, one of the advantages of the Q400 is their very low CASM. They can transport up to 70 pax, but they break even with half that load, bringing the ATR-42/72 commonality to a disadvantage.

Quoting troest (Reply 12):

We will most likely see LIM-MAD in 2013.

Probably. Let's hope the wide bodies and the brand unification give the LIM hub the final push it needs to start seriously growing. TA has been very inconsistent with the schedule as of late.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 14):
but the number of frames in the deal and the fact that it could double if Aires withdraws from the regional market, If this happens I think AV would jump right in and start doing a lot of regional flying

That is also great. It would mean a huge increase in the schedules, bringing the BOG hub to more than 200 daily domestic departures.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 14):
Which routes are you referring to? The Fokker 50's are being mostly used to MZL as pretty much every other route has been upgraded to the A318, EJA, NVA for example, IBE is the next city to get A318 service once the apron is expanded as the runway is fully capable of handling the plane.

Well none of those have been entirely upgraded to A318s, they get A318s flights combined with the Fokkers. Also, how economical would it be to fly them to IBE, AV's shortest route from BOG? The plane would be in the air for 20 minutes at most!
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:51 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
how economical would it be to fly them to IBE, AV's shortest route from BOG?

I've yet to hear any numbers for the route and the A318 is not a very economical airplane compared to other similar types, it is way too heavy for a 100pax frame, its DOW is 40tons, the E-190 is much much lighter for example.
AV charges a lot for this short hop, so the economics could be there.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
The plane would be in the air for 20 minutes at most!

That's mad!, it has to be one of the shortest scheduled flights in a jet in the world! If I remember correctly flight time in the F50 was just under 20 mins, it would be interesting to see what speed they compute the flight plan with, Of course I'm talking about flight time because with the circus clowns we have posing as air traffic controllers in Colombia (the ones in BOG are very unprofessional, even dangerous at times!) the time to taxi from TPA to runway 13R could double or even triple the flight time.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
It would mean a huge increase in the schedules, bringing the BOG hub to more than 200 daily domestic departures.

I also think this would also allow AV entrance into EOH once Aires is out of there, there is a huge market from Olaya Herrera, this is where I think the Q400 (or ATR) will do wonders for the company.
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troest
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Just to add more about the unification of brands in the AviancaTaca Holding. Avianca (and Taca) will introduce a new interior, i guess in their narrow-body fleet. It will be equipped with leather seats and individual screens, have more leg-space and recline both in Business and Economy class. The next A320 delivered to AV will introduce the new features.

LInk only in Spanish: http://www.larepublica.net/app/cms/w...ticulo=5332268
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting troest (Reply 17):
The next A320 delivered to AV will introduce the new features.

There's one already in the fleet with the new interior, N195AV if I'm not mistaken, I had a chance to be in it last week, lots of changes from the other A320's, no bulkheads separating B/C from Y, red and blue led lights in different shades on the ceiling and a few changes in the cockpit as well, different transponder system, no cockpit entrance camera, different exterior lights arrangement.

It's either N195AV or N448AV, both in Star Alliance livery, they're both recent additions to the fleet.
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RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:55 pm

Quoting trent772 (Reply 16):
I also think this would also allow AV entrance into EOH once Aires is out of there, there is a huge market from Olaya Herrera, this is where I think the Q400 (or ATR) will do wonders for the company.

Would they be allowed in EOH with 70 seat aircraft? As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

Nonetheless, if we're talking about 10 extra Q400s; LAN's operation in EOH right now consists of three Q200s with flights to PEI, MTR, APO, UIB and IBE, so the majority will still be going to BOG, maybe one or two to CLO.
 
PDPsol
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting trent772 (Reply 14):
It's not official, just a rumour for now, but the person I heard it from is very high up the organizational ladder, the part that excites me the most is actually not the airplane supplier, but the number of frames in the deal and the fact that it could double if Aires withdraws from the regional market, If this happens I think AV would jump right in and start doing a lot of regional flying (it's a gold mine!!), it was also mentioned that they're getting ready for the arrival of the "new airplane" and that next year no A330 copilots will transition to the left seat of the A320, they will be going to the left seat of the new turboprop instead.
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Would they be allowed in EOH with 70 seat aircraft? As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

If true, this is, indeed, a very interesting rumor. Replacement regional aircraft alternatives for the F50 fleet have been discussed for ages. One key question involves the TA regional ATR fleet, one would imagine the Q400's would replace those as well.

On a related note, there have been several rumors regarding the fate of the TA E190 fleet as well. Perhaps a fellow member has information regarding these as well...
 
A388
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:25 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
The only route in the Avianca system that might not have enough traffic to warrant Q400 service at the current schedule might be CLO-TCO, but it could just be reduced from 2x to 1x daily and that's it. All of the other cities have sufficient traffic to warrant the Dashes, with maybe a few tweaks in the schedule but nothing major.

Also, one of the advantages of the Q400 is their very low CASM. They can transport up to 70 pax, but they break even with half that load, bringing the ATR-42/72 commonality to a disadvantage.

Okay, I stand corrected. About flying half empty aircraft because the aircraft breaks even then, I don't think that is what any airline wants. At some point it will cost you but seeing that AV apparently doesn't have many routes that require 50 seats, the Q400 is an option. Now that the Q400 will probably take over some A318 routes where will these A318's be used? Expand to new regional markets? Or was it always the intention of AV to have the A318 for a short time in their fleet?

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Would they be allowed in EOH with 70 seat aircraft? As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

I've heard the same from local spotters in MDE that only Satena is allowed to operate larger aircraft to/from EOH because they are government owned. I hope AV is allowed to fly in and out of EOH with their Q400's, in that case I will definately visit EOH again in the future 

A388
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
As far as I'm concerned only 9R is allowed to do this, the rest of the airlines are limited to up to 50 seats. Maybe they'll grow regional flying out of MDE when LAN exits the EOH market.

I had no idea such restrictions were in place, the only one I knew of was the one that allowed Satena to fly to EOH from BOG, this is definitely something the bean-counters should look into.
I always thought giving Satena the chance to have scheduled services to EOH from BOG was unfair to every other airline out there, but someone told me that it's that very route what keeps them alive.

Quoting A388 (Reply 21):
was it always the intention of AV to have the A318 for a short time in their fleet?

It is my understanding that these were to stay in the fleet for a not too long period of time, these were taken up by Avianca because the lessor made them an offer they couldn't refuse, I'm guessing they will be replaced with newer A319's in the future(hopefully with sharklets).
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RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting trent772 (Reply 22):
I had no idea such restrictions were in place, the only one I knew of was the one that allowed Satena to fly to EOH from BOG, this is definitely something the bean-counters should look into.

The restriction to 50 seater aircraft is due to the security concerns over the approach and take off in the narrow Aburrá Valley and into the middle of the city, which were the main reason why MDE was built. SATENA was given an exception to fly 70 seaters into the airport, but anything larger has to go to MDE.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 22):
I always thought giving Satena the chance to have scheduled services to EOH from BOG was unfair to every other airline out there, but someone told me that it's that very route what keeps them alive.

It used to be the route that was keeping them alive. One the fierce competition with AIRES began, the government deregulated fares and the airlines flying to MDE started charging $40USD one way to and from BOG, SATENA's inefficient structure suddenly lost it's main subsidy: the prime that passengers flying to EOH would pay for the convenience of flying into the downtown airport. SATENA went through very rough times and the airline had to be restructured, proof of that is that the entire Embraer fleet was replaced by much more fuel efficient ATRs. There is a supposed semi-privatization process going on, but it's been slower than hell.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 22):
It is my understanding that these were to stay in the fleet for a not too long period of time, these were taken up by Avianca because the lessor made them an offer they couldn't refuse,

Avianca's Fokker 100s were falling apart and spares were becoming increasingly expensive. When MX went down suddenly a lot of spare capacity was available and these new-ish A318s with a couple of factory new A320s and some ex-MX A319s were the perfect replacement to the 15-strong F100 fleet, and also provided a little bit of capacity growth.

Edit: Just saw this crazy Avianca fare sale to MAD and BCN from any city in Colombia for $449 USD r/t! That's insane! Great to see these deals, every day it's cheaper to fly to Spain from Colombia. Let's keep it that way.

[Edited 2012-10-12 14:59:31]
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23):
SATENA went through very rough times and the airline had to be restructured, proof of that is that the entire Embraer fleet was replaced by much more fuel efficient ATRs. There is a supposed semi-privatization process going on, but it's been slower than hell.

In my opinion the government should close down Satena, send all the FAC pilots back to their bases where they belong, let the military pilots stick to what they know, they have no place flying commercial.
Establish some sort of program that will guarantee all the small communities the air service they need, something like they do in the U.S. with the EAS program, I think there are airlines fully capable of handling such contracts, Searca comes to mind, also this would allow smaller airlines to expand under government subsidy and with the amount of cash involved a lot of jobs could be created.
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clo1973
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:52 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 15):
The only route in the Avianca system that might not have enough traffic to warrant Q400 service at the current schedule might be CLO-TCO, but it could just be reduced from 2x to 1x daily and that's it. All of the other cities have sufficient traffic to warrant the Dashes, with maybe a few tweaks in the schedule but nothing major.

Difficult to do since the route has 80% load factor.
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:38 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 5):

Cool, so this ends my laughs in calling them Grupo CACA. I used to think that of them until I had a very good experience with TACA this past April. They really surprised me with great comfort in the A320s even in Coach class. I'm tall and chubby. Had the leather ones. They had a new plane smell, and the flight attendants were very attentive.

But just a question . . . when will Avinunca finish painting all the TACA planes into AV livery? Heard that AV will undergo a rebranding as well as a change in the livery to mark this occasion of becoming one single name just as United did after merging with Continental. On that note, I wish the new UNITED could see the same wavy gold cheatline on all planes, and not just the 787s. That would make it look real smart.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:52 am

Quoting clo1973 (Reply 25):
Difficult to do since the route has 80% load factor.

Well than not even CLO-TCO would have trouble filling up the Q400s. another route that got me thinking was BOG-FLA, but that one seems to be doing really well too and at 1x daily it should have no problem.

Here's a very interesting analysis from CAPA regarding Viva's entry into the Colombia domestic market:

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...n-traffic-posts-solid-growth-85110

- June traffic statistics show Viva garnered a 3% market share.
- Their load factors are generally high.
- Avianca and LAN have increased their market shares to 59% and 20% respectively, Copa Colombia continues to loose market share (it lost 5%, which went 2% to AV, 1% to LA and 3% to VC).
- Growth is back to double digits this year.
- Capacity has grown a lot and load factors keep strong, all airlines are over 80%.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:27 pm

BOG's international terminal will officially start operating tomorrow, inauguration is planned for today:

http://www.portafolio.co/economia/el...lub-aeropuertos-modernos-del-mundo

As an interesting note in the article, it is mentioned that the master plan for the continued expansion of Bogotá's air traffic capacity will be presented in the coming weeks by the authorities, and that there is land available to grow BOG to a third runway and new terminal space.
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:48 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 27):
Here's a very interesting analysis from CAPA regarding Viva's entry into the Colombia domestic market

It's great news that Viva Colombia's plan to get people off buses and put them into airplanes appears to be working, its exactly what Colombia needed given the country's roads resemble that of Europe back in the 1800's.

They must have like 4 A320's now right?

I hope they continue to grow strong, I think in the end people will choose to get on an airplane for a few bucks more for a one hour flight than get stuck on the road for 14-15hrs just to get to a place like CTG, the only thing I'm not so sure about is them being based in MDE.

One other thing that needs to be addressed is Airports and ATC infrastructure, with sustained growth in the double digits for a couple more years the system will simply collapse and soon we won't be able to get anywhere using ground or air transportation.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
continued expansion of Bogota's air traffic capacity will be presented in the coming weeks

I think the the capacity and the need to grow are there, the technology already exists, the willingness of the air traffic controllers I'm not so sure, what I have experienced in the past few days shows a total lack of commitment to make the system run a little smoother, you can't beat up the system repeatedly and expect it to be there and work for you when you need it.
Government action is needed to make these people work for the airlines not against them.



[Edited 2012-10-17 20:52:54]
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A388
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:30 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
BOG's international terminal will officially start operating tomorrow, inauguration is planned for today:

Too bad I missed it as I was flying in and out of BOG several times between June and September!!! Does anyone know if the new terminal building will have a public spotting terrace where you can eat and take aircraft photos? That would be soo nice!!!

A388
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:52 pm

To those whom it may interest:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...portugal-tap-idUSBRE89H0X520121018

Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 29):
It's great news that Viva Colombia's plan to get people off buses and put them into airplanes appears to be working, its exactly what Colombia needed given the country's roads resemble that of Europe back in the 1800's.

Indeed.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 29):
They must have like 4 A320's now right?

Yes, a 5th one is expected before year's end.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 29):
the only thing I'm not so sure about is them being based in MDE.

Well MDE has proven to have limited demand. While routes like BOG, CTG and BAQ have been doing amazing, the more "adventurous" routes which pretended to steal business pax out of the EOH-based carriers haven't been working well (PEI was pulled, BGA and MTR are doing mediocre). I'm sure there is still some more room for growth out of Medellín, but the airline will need to find other bases if it plans to continue it's expansion (again, even if I get blasted by Medellín based users, a BOG base will be essential at one point if they really want to catch a large slice of the market).

[Edited 2012-10-18 13:04:01]
 
Summa767
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

Although negotiations could break at any time, it does look as if Synergy is close to acquiring TAP. This is interesting as it is is risky. TAP has a huge debt, and getting any restructuring done will not be easy.
But for the airline it will mean that its LIS hub will be safe and could be better used in the future for more flights to South America, connecting with Europe.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Well MDE has proven to have limited demand.

I would not be so hasty in reading it like that. When a route like MDE-CTG goes from 150 seats a day (3 x F50s), and on introduction of competition is goes to over 1000 seats with 9 x A32X, you cannot say that it has "limited demand". Demand is finite everywhere, but Viva is after the routes that have unlocked potential.

That is not to say that every route will work, as the models don't take into account every circumstance,, an that VIva itself has not made mistakes: On the MDE-PEI -which is usually like 4 hours by road- is not so appealing for those willing to swap the bus for the plane, as they had to be 4 hours in advance at the airport, plus the trip there, meant they were better off going overland. The other issue is the competition from EOH. There is clearly an established market that uses the handy city airport on routes such as PEI, MTR and BGA, whereas there will be many people who will need further persuading to make the move from bus to plane.

Of course, BOG will also see some routes as Viva expands -assuming they can get slots, but its target is mainly thin routes with potential. An interesting point will be when Viva can launch international routes from different colombian cities.



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
BOG's international terminal will officially start operating tomorrow, inauguration is planned for today:

A great improvement on the current terminal. For me the best news is that the President promised the funds to make sure that the city transport (Trasnmilenio) can go all the way to the airport.
This is something that had not been properly planned (amazing for a city that championed that form of transport!), but I am glad that it will materialise.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
This is interesting as it is is risky. TAP has a huge debt, and getting any restructuring done will not be easy.

Agree. But this is Efromovich's specialty, buying cheap, practically non viable companies and turning them around. It's how he made his fortune. There is also the issue of european labor and business laws which are absurdly unfriendly to investors, so let's wait and see.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
Although negotiations could break at any time, it does look as if Synergy is close to acquiring TAP.

Indeed. This could be the first time a latin airline group actually controls a european carrier. Interesting times ahead. Of course, if TP's unions don't push hard enough so that the government decides not to sell. It would be stupid to do so though, as Germany probably wouldn't love it.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
When a route like MDE-CTG goes from 150 seats a day (3 x F50s), and on introduction of competition is goes to over 1000 seats with 9 x A32X, you cannot say that it has "limited demand".

Load factors are high, but yields have been absolutely trashed. We'll see how much longer AV is going to sustain the 7 daily A318/A320 combo on the route. There was indeed need of new capacity, but what is going on right now is called flooding.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
I would not be so hasty in reading it like that.

We have been able to find a limit to the demand out of Medellín, and it clearly is the secondary cities that are not Cali or on the coast cannot yet sustain daily 190 seat jet service with good loads. Although the case of PEI is true, BGA, a city with arguably more demand than PEI (almost twice the population and a bigger economy), plus much further from MDE isn't doing well either. The market has to mature too, and I'm sure in the future there might be more stimulation and demand will be created as the country's economy grows, but right now it just isn't there. It's not something bad, but VC clearly won't be able to grow after a certain point if they keep basing their aircraft in MDE, as they probably wouldn't find demand for 60 A320s based out of BOG.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
Of course, BOG will also see some routes as Viva expands -assuming they can get slots, but its target is mainly thin routes with potential.

Slots at BOG won't be so hard to get come tomorrow, and specially after the summer of 2014, when arguably Viva will have reached a stage where it is stable and making enough money to compete out of BOG with the majors Time will tell.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
A great improvement on the current terminal. For me the best news is that the President promised the funds to make sure that the city transport (Trasnmilenio) can go all the way to the airport.

That and the fact that the new master plan for further expansion of the facility will be presented in the coming weeks.
 
A388
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:18 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 33):
Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
This is interesting as it is is risky. TAP has a huge debt, and getting any restructuring done will not be easy.

Agree. But this is Efromovich's specialty, buying cheap, practically non viable companies and turning them around. It's how he made his fortune. There is also the issue of european labor and business laws which are absurdly unfriendly to investors, so let's wait and see.

Quoting summa767 (Reply 32):
Although negotiations could break at any time, it does look as if Synergy is close to acquiring TAP.

Indeed. This could be the first time a latin airline group actually controls a european carrier. Interesting times ahead. Of course, if TP's unions don't push hard enough so that the government decides not to sell. It would be stupid to do so though, as Germany probably wouldn't love it.

Interesting news and I've said it before, I see Mr. Efromovich taking over TP and as has been said before "everything he touches, turns into gold"  Seeing that the EU is different and apparently tougher to crack, let's see how Mr. Efromovich will do. After all, he is part European too...  

A388
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:18 pm

It appears that Aires has received another A320, it's parked over at the engine run test area close to the threshold of runway 13R, it is CC registered with Colombian flags but I couldn't see clearly from my position, it had engine and pitot tube covers on, the interesting thing about this one is it has CFM engines, I think all of Aires's airbus up to now have IAE engines, I could be wrong.

The rumour on Avianca getting Q400's also appears to be gathering strength, allegedly a few days ago a team of BBD engineers, pilots and a topographic survey team along with a team from Avianca of the same makeup headed to MZL to take a look and see what could be done, a couple of friends who headed there that day told me they were doing measurements as the wheelbase of the Q400 is a tad too wide for MZL's runway and taxiways (runway 15m, taxiways10m), they were also measuring or rather updating the runway slope (5,28% if I'm not mistaken) to see if it could work with the Q400, with the planes length and it being so close to the ground its gotta have some sort of restriction or a very shallow nose up angle limit before a tail strike occurs (something like the B739), this is usually fixed with higher V speeds but with MZL's 1000m runway that is not something you can afford, one other thing on their minds was the minimum runway width for a 180 degree turn, it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

G. Efromovich has a thing for taking bankrupt companies and turning them to profitable ones, sort of like waking up the dead if you know what I mean, I think even with TAP's huge debt the possibilities to turn the company around are there, as I understand they have flights from Portugal to eight different points in Brazil, the possibilities are endless, and all this just before the FIFA World Cup and the Olympic Games, this guy definitely sees more in TAP than meets the eye.

[Edited 2012-10-22 07:21:25]
Pedaling Squares…
 
A388
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:38 pm

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
Synergy is the final potential bidder for TAP. This is unprecendented news.

G. Efromovich has a thing for taking bankrupt companies and turning the to profitable ones, sort of like waking up the dead if you know what I mean, I think even with TAP's huge debt the possibilities to turn the company around are there, as I understand they have flights from Portugal to eight different points in Brazil, the possibilities are endless, and all this just before the FIFA World Cup and the Olympic Games, this guy definitely sees more in TAP than meets the eye.

That is definately true. In the past I've seen a photo of a scale model of an Ocean Air 787, will some of the 787's AV ordered go to AV Brasil?


By the way, has any aircraft spotter visited the new terminal building in BOG? How is it? Is it great for aircraft photography?

A388
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:56 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 36):
That is definately true. In the past I've seen a photo of a scale model of an Ocean Air 787, will some of the 787's AV ordered go to AV Brasil?

No. They're all intended for AviancaTaca. The A350s though are Synergy orders.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
The rumour on Avianca getting Q400's also appears to be gathering strength, allegedly a few days ago a team of BBD engineers, pilots and a topographic survey team along with a team from Avianca of the same makeup headed to MZL to take a look and see what could be done

Well this means three things, two good, one very bad:

1. BBD is very committed to getting the Q400 order from AV.
2. AV is committed to keep serving the city of Manizales for the long term.
3. Both companies know that the new MZL airport is never going to be ready in the 2014 frame they're saying, and it's possible it never will. It's probably going to become a white elephant and another case of extreme corruption and institutional weakness of the colombian state, which is very sad.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
as the wheelbase of the Q400 is a tad too wide for MZL's runway and taxiways (runway 15m, taxiways10m)
Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
rather updating the runway slope (5,28% if I'm not mistaken) to see if it could work with the Q400

La Nubia airport is basically a piece of crap.

Quoting trent772 (Reply 35):
but with MZL's 1000m runway that is not something you can afford

Correction, the runway there is 1400m long. It's the altitude (2000m above sea level) that limits the aircraft's performance. With a 1000m runway only very small aircraft would be able to take off from there, as it used to happen until the early 1990s when the extension was carried out.
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:33 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 37):
Both companies know that the new MZL airport is never going to be ready in the 2014 frame they're saying, and it's possible it never will. It's probably going to become a white elephant and another case of extreme corruption and institutional weakness of the Colombian state, which is very sad

Sad indeed as I think the Palestina airport will not happen, at least not for the next ten years or so. Extreme corruption is present everywhere in Colombia  
A Vor is being installed at the airport, somehow the fools at Aerocivil think this is going to improve the airports operational capabilities. For some reason they keep investing (or wasting) money on this little airport which you have described perfectly, It is a piece of Crap.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 37):
Correction, the runway there is 1400m long.
http://portal.aerocivil.gov.co/porta...ob_page.show?_docname=25809767.PDF

I'd like to respectfuly dispute your claim, look under "Distancias Declaradas", it states the runway is 1000m and this document is from Sept/2011, of course it would not surprise me even a little if they did work to make the runway 1400m long back in 1990 and never bothered to update the AIP during all these years, that's our sad little Aerocivil, the know-it-alls of our skies.
Pedaling Squares…
 
av757
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:07 pm

Yesterday afternoon on October 22, A330-243 N279AV c/n1279 was ferried from SKRG to SPIM to be delivered to Taca-Peru. It was repainted in the white Star Alliance livery.

Regards
AV757
 
standby87
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:23 pm

Hi, Hola

Does anyone know anything about Emirates plans to fly to Bogota from Dubai?
It must be 4 years ago that I read that Colombia and the UAE signed a flight deal, but since then absolutely nothing  

It would be amazing because it would be the 4th longest route in the world, but somehow I can't see it happening  
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:23 pm

Quoting trent772 (Reply 38):
I'd like to respectfuly dispute your claim, look under "Distancias Declaradas", it states the runway is 1000m and this document is from Sept/2011, of course it would not surprise me even a little if they did work to make the runway 1400m long back in 1990 and never bothered to update the AIP during all these years, that's our sad little Aerocivil, the know-it-alls of our skies.

Well that must be exactly what happened. A 1000m runway doesn't even allow any aircraft larger than a Dash-Q200/300 to take off, at any altitude. Back in the day ACES was tired of having to fly Twin Otters multiple times per hour of the BOG-MZL route and extended the runway to 1400 meters so that their ATR-42s could land there. After that, Avianca's Fokker 50s started operating as well.

Quoting Standby87 (Reply 40):
Does anyone know anything about Emirates plans to fly to Bogota from Dubai?
It must be 4 years ago that I read that Colombia and the UAE signed a flight deal, but since then absolutely nothing

It won't happen as a non-stop flight, most likely with a BOG-CCS-DXB routing, but if things don't get better with the venezuelan economy, I just don't see it materializing.

On other news, colombia LCC VivaColombia are updating their BOG-MDE-BOG schedules to offer more frequency come november. As of now there is one daily flight on the route with excellent load factors, schedule will be as follows:

Mo, Tu, We, Th 3 flights
Fri 4 flights
Sat, Sun 2 flights

Their 5th A320 is already doing flight tests in Dublin.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:17 pm

AV is expanding flights, most destinations are known but apparently additional capacity to MIA is being added:

http://colombiareports.com/travel-in...avianca-to-expand-its-network.html

AVTA carried 13.2% more passengers in the first nine months of 2012 than they did in the same period of 2011:

http://www.financialpost.com/markets...re+Than+Million/7432987/story.html

[Edited 2012-10-24 15:26:39]
 
clo1973
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:10 am

Yesterday Aerogal started its operation GYE-CLO-GYE, load factor of first flight was 91% and 95 out of the 110 people aboard were heading to MAD (GYE-CLO-GYE allows connections to MAD and MIA).
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 42):
additional capacity to MIA is being added:

This will be the new adjusted schedule to MIA from BOG by Avianca, with the third flight on the mid-day bank and the afternoon flight adjusted to better fit into the night bank and a change of equipment to A319, it will operate like this from december 16th:

dep arr freq aircraft flight #

10:20 BOG 14:00 MIA A330 AV6
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4
21:30 BOG 1:00+1 MIA A319 AV8

04:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV5
09:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV9
16:00 MIA 19:30 BOG A330 AV7

Quoting clo1973 (Reply 43):
Yesterday Aerogal started its operation GYE-CLO-GYE, load factor of first flight was 91% and 95 out of the 110 people aboard were heading to MAD (GYE-CLO-GYE allows connections to MAD and MIA).

Well isn't that something, I had no idea that Tame was going to start the route. It will surely be a terrific feeder to the MAD flights out of CLO. And all done via interline agreements.
 
Avianca
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
10:20 BOG 14:00 MIA A330 AV6
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4
21:30 BOG 1:00+1 MIA A319 AV8

04:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV5
09:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV9
16:00 MIA 19:30 BOG A330 AV7

I am quite surprised that the 18:00 arrival is not turning around same night, in my opinion they should put a 4rd flight and downgrade the a330 to an a319 as well
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 45):
I am quite surprised that the 18:00 arrival is not turning around same night, in my opinion they should put a 4rd flight and downgrade the a330 to an a319 as well

I think a fourth flight would be unnecessary and less economical, plus due to the amount of J class pax on this route the A330 is needed for the morning flight.

What they could do to use the aircraft more efficiently is add a new destination in Colombia from MIA, preferably PEI, which has been screaming for it.
 
777jaah
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4

I'm taking this flight in 2 months. Nice schedule, that allow an a not-so-late arrival to MIA. Something similar to what AA has.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
09:17 MIA 12:50 BOG A319 AV9

For some reason, AV sold this flight departing at 6:00 am, or something like that. Then it was moved to 9am.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
trent772
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:27 pm

I guess the Q400 is getting closer to becoming a reality, this was a test of the runway only, they didn't taxi onto the apron, no problem executing the 180* turn on runway 28 either, sorry if it had already been posted.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=jIKAp...top_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjIKAp3Gu3GE

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
14:20 BOG 18:00 MIA A319 AV4

Finally!!!! The AV004 that was reserved as an additional flight number in the past is now a regular, that's great news, Clearly the A330 in the morning and the A319/20 in the early evening wasn't enough capacity.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44):
04:02 MIA 7:35 BOG A319 AV5

Wow!! That's awfully early, I guess it's great for the passengers but it's gonna be really tough on the crew. Oh well.……

[Edited 2012-10-26 12:31:16]
Pedaling Squares…
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Colombian Aviation #11

Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:31 pm

Quoting trent772 (Reply 48):
I guess the Q400 is getting closer to becoming a reality, this was a test of the runway only, they didn't taxi onto the apron, no problem executing the 180* turn on runway 28 either, sorry if it had already been posted.

Yes, the tests in Manizales went well. There will be taxiway and ramp extensions to be made, but if Bombardier is willing to assume the cost, well then I think we have a winner.

The Q400 is a cool plane, welcome addition to the fleet!

Quoting trent772 (Reply 48):
Clearly the A330 in the morning and the A319/20 in the early evening wasn't enough capacity.

It was a daily A320 on the second flight, but indeed capacity went from 400 to 490 daily seats.

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