olddominion727
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AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:24 pm

At SFO today chatting with another who was enjoying the great weather... He was here on vacation from TUL. I assume in some type of MX capacity--employed w/AA. He sounded pretty convincing saying AA was going to only modify their scheme by painting the body silver (that much like the DL Skyteam aircraft), put the Eagle's wings on the engines, and slightly change the fonts on the AA's, as well as the red, white and blue cheat lines will be less pronounced (one cheat line, starting with red around the nose to just before the wing, white over the wing, then blue from the back of the wing to around the tail). He said the changes would be very minimum, like AF's and QF's--you will see them on the new 77W and newly arriving 738's first. He said this was hotly debated months even before the Airbus order. He said all of full-time employees of 10 years or more (former TW & QQ employees included) answered an anonymous poll about their choice of changing the livery or giving the old one a face lift. Many employees think the 'AA' livery as-is now suits them well and has kept them flying thus far. He said they're debating right now to eliminate the 'AA Eagle' brand and change everything over to AA Connection so there's no confusion. Regardless all Eagle equipment will be painted silver to match!

He continued to say MX was convinced that if US took over it would be the final nail in the coffin for anything originally AA. The unions don't really want to merge, they're trying to awaken management to get the glory days back when Bob Crandall was in power.

Apparently the airport areas are going to see the biggest changes in their hub cities as well as LON, TYO, SAO, PAR (surprising HKG too--they're begin to "share" things in HKG--WTF?) I asked him if AA was going to start HKG? He said rumor was that they would start from DAL & LAX first with the 772's not used when replacing them with 77W's. Apparently they're talking about adding SIN as an add-on to HKG where most OW airlines intersect CX, JL, QF, BA (AB 2013 from DUS); look for it Spring of 2013. They have orders to completely renovate all 772's first, then the 763's. Minor changes will be made to the 752's to hold them over until the new 321's arrive--laughing he said they're going to starting bolting the seats down. Continuing we should look for more things dark blue with bold reds and whites, and more lit AA logo marquis. Also look for a new OW logo that all carriers must have at least 2 equipment (per carrier) painted.

Apparently management is really trying hard to drum up new support for the new AA. They are concerned they could be taken down as TW, EA, CO & PA were, They wanna bring back things like playing cards too (for a fee of course), and a large (cold & free) snack on flights of 2 hrs or more. I told him the 77W 3-4-3 is not the way to go forward. Cards and meals are nice, but one bag free and snacks is much better than playing cards you're charged for. He said MANY balked at that 77W configuration, especially the flight attendants. However, secretly they have conceded that if business drops in coach they are ready to go back to the 3-3-3 config (not 2-5-2).

There's a lot of information here. Does it sound logical? I am so accepting of anything that sounds genuine. Just curious to hear other's opinions.
 
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TWA1985
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:30 pm

Are the snacks for coach? If so, that would be a welcome return!
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DeltaMD90
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:48 pm

I don't get how there are so many people with priviledged information that seem to always spill the beans to random people. Not saying you are wrong, but I'm skeptical. Doesn't implausible, it's just that most of these employee rumors are not true
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:14 am

HKG has been rumoured for a long time. AA will also be sending their widebody aircraft here for maintenance. There is a possibility that this maintenance contract might have fuelled the rumour that actual services are started though. I've heard rumours like that before where a one-off charter service or maintenance ferry flight, through Chinese whispers became a full-on new revenue service.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
I don't get how there are so many people with priviledged information that seem to always spill the beans to random people. Not saying you are wrong, but I'm skeptical. Doesn't implausible, it's just that most of these employee rumors are not true

In my airline you would be surprised at how easily even managers spill the beans about unannounced stuff, especially if they have a beer or two in them!
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
He said all of full-time employees of 10 years or more (former TW & QQ employees included) answered an anonymous poll about their choice of changing the livery or giving the old one a face lift.

Perhaps this was just maintenance, because flight attendants were never asked.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
He said they're debating right now to eliminate the 'AA Eagle' brand and change everything over to AA Connection so there's no confusion.

We already know, from AA, that American Connection is the brand that is going away. All regional flights, Connection included, will be rebranded American Eagle. Because of this, American Eagle (the actual airline) needs to find a new name. American Eagle will be used for marketing purposes on all AA regional flights, regardless of the operator. My assumption is whatever they plan on doing with the Eagle brand (logo/paint) we'll see on the OO CRJs that will start covering LAX in the coming months.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
He continued to say MX was convinced that if US took over it would be the final nail in the coffin for anything originally AA.

That's odd, because the TWU, along with the APA and APFA, continue to push for a merger with US.

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
They have orders to completely renovate all 772's first, then the 763's. Minor changes will be made to the 752's to hold them over until the new 321's arrive

AA previously announced they'll be refurbishing and reconfiguring their 777-200ERs to match the -300s, but as a two class bird -- no more first on the -200. The 763s will get the new Business class seat (like the 777s), but coach will remain the same (a HUGE letdown IMHO). The 752's refurbishment program is well under way with more than half of the fleet now complete.

As a side note, AA now has 188 active MD-80s, and 186 active 738s. The 738 is about to pass the MD-80, something I know a lot of us thought would never happen (AA use to operate 360 MD-80s!).
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JBo
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:27 am

Chances are the livery probably will end up being a painted color just because you can't do bare metal on composites or on Airbus aircraft. That part is inevitable.

The idea of rebranding Eagle to Connection is a horrible idea. If anything, it should be the other way around. Rebrand the Connection operators as Eagle (if Executive can operate as Eagle, then Chautaqua and SkyWest might as well, too).

As for the rest of the branding, some evolution/change/refresh is inevitable. What actually comes to fruition remains to be seen, however.
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NWADC9
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
Because of this, American Eagle (the actual airline) needs to find a new name.

Executive uses the American Eagle branding on their ATRs. Why couldn't the regionals be "American Eagle operated by XYZ Airlines" and the real American Eagle simply remain "American Eagle"?
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
American Eagle will be used for marketing purposes on all AA regional flights, regardless of the operator.

Yep - just as it was for the first 14 years of Eagle's existence from 1984 through 1998.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
My assumption is whatever they plan on doing with the Eagle brand (logo/paint) we'll see on the OO CRJs that will start covering LAX in the coming months.

Seems logical.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
AA previously announced they'll be refurbishing and reconfiguring their 777-200ERs to match the -300s, but as a two class bird -- no more first on the -200.

Yep. With as good as the new 777 J looks, I doubt AA would need F on those planes anyway. The new 777 J seat looks better than any other cabin product AA has ever offered on any aircraft, in any cabin, except the current 777 F (Flagship Suite), including the original 777 F (Coffins). That new J is going to be awesome - as will the somewhat-upgraded new 777 F on the 77Ws.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
The 763s will get the new Business class seat (like the 777s), but coach will remain the same (a HUGE letdown IMHO).

Letdown, indeed - AA did a half- job on the 763 refurbs the last time when it came to Y. I guess they are figuring that by the time the half of the 763 fleet that is to get refurbished actually gets the work, AA will by that time already be well on their way to replacing much of that flying with 787s, and thus no need to sink the investment in the 763 fleet anyway. May make sense on a spreadsheet, but AA's 763 Y product is simply not competitive.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
As a side note, AA now has 188 active MD-80s, and 186 active 738s. The 738 is about to pass the MD-80, something I know a lot of us thought would never happen (AA use to operate 360 MD-80s!).

It is remarkable.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 6):
Executive uses the American Eagle branding on their ATRs. Why couldn't the regionals be "American Eagle operated by XYZ Airlines" and the real American Eagle simply remain "American Eagle"?

Because once American Eagle (the airline company) is no longer wholly-owned by AMR, it would have to pay a license fee to AMR to use 'American Eagle' (the brand), which would likely not be economically feasible. In addition, American Eagle (the airline company) wants to be able to go out and secure capacity purchase business from other airlines besides AA, which I suspect they feel would be challenging if their company's name and branding is so closely linked with AA.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:04 am

You may have some truth's in the story you heard but as always some info is probably stretched. For instance we already know American Eagle is going to be the name of the connection flights. As for the merger with US I'm skeptical on that, the unions seem to be pushing for that. A silver paint would be nice, especially on Eagle aircraft, excited to see that. I would imagine they would have to unveil it soon if they are going to start using other carriers to fly as Eagle in the near future...

[Edited 2012-10-07 18:05:13]
 
airliner371
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:07 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Because once American Eagle (the airline company) is no longer wholly-owned by AMR, it would have to pay a license fee to AMR to use 'American Eagle' (the brand), which would likely not be economically feasible. In addition, American Eagle (the airline company) wants to be able to go out and secure capacity purchase business from other airlines besides AA, which I suspect they feel would be challenging if their company's name and branding is so closely linked with AA.

AA said they are going to be renaming American Eagle Airlines and using American Eagle operated by XYZ Airlines for American Airlines.
 
spiritair97
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:07 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 5):
If anything, it should be the other way around. Rebrand the Connection operators as Eagle

That is what is happening. American Connection is being rebranded as American Eagle. It WOULD, however, be a bad idea to change everything to American connection.

Quoting JBo (Reply 5):
Chances are the livery probably will end up being a painted color just because you can't do bare metal on composites or on Airbus aircraft. That part is inevitable.

Yupp. I think that whatever the new livery is, it'll probably look good. At this point and maturity of the current branding, it won't be that hard to refresh it very nicely. I imagine the fuselage will probably be painted, similar to the early liveries on the a300s, but with the red and blue lines more "swooshy", if that make sense. I also imagine they'll go for billboard-style lettering, which would add a touch of class to the colorscheme. Also, maybe a refreshening of the logo (AA with the wings).

But, that's just my   
 
airliner371
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 10):
but with the red and blue lines more "swooshy", if that make sense.

Similar to the UA 787? If so I agree.

I also agree with you that whatever new livery it is will look good. Of course their will be people that hate change but I agree with you.

And if by billboard you mean similar to JetBlue on the fuselage I also agree.
 
eastern023
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:16 am

I really hope the best for AA. I hope the rise from the ashes. As is the current situation could not go on. AA is terrible especially on their long haul Y product. I hope things turn around...

Rudy from IAD
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JBo
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Because once American Eagle (the airline company) is no longer wholly-owned by AMR, it would have to pay a license fee to AMR to use 'American Eagle' (the brand), which would likely not be economically feasible. In addition, American Eagle (the airline company) wants to be able to go out and secure capacity purchase business from other airlines besides AA, which I suspect they feel would be challenging if their company's name and branding is so closely linked with AA.

It makes sense to rename the American Eagle corporate entity once it is spun off. My vote is to bring back "Simmons"  
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AJMIA
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:16 am

Now I heard a rumor that the main color was going to be blue....

I like the idea of silver better though.
Guess we will just have to wait and see.

AJMIA
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ikramerica
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:34 am

Crandall left because the glory days were over and the unions had become too difficult to work with. Hardly possible to return to those glory days.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ManekS
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:47 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
Apparently they're talking about adding SIN as an add-on to HKG where most OW airlines intersect CX, JL, QF, BA (AB 2013 from DUS); look for it Spring of 2013.

Interesting. AA also happens to be recruiting a sales manager for SIN, which would make this rumor somewhat plausible?

http://sg.jobsdb.com/SG/EN/Search/Jo...il?jobsIdList=400003001251776&sr=1
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:03 am

TW and CO weren't "taken down" and EA and PA went under for vastly differing reasons.
 
spiritair97
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:13 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
Similar to the UA 787? If so I agree.

That's exactly what I mean. Good comparison, didn't think of that, but yes.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
And if by billboard you mean similar to JetBlue on the fuselage I also agree.

Also, exactly what I meant. I think billboard lettering looks better on an aircraft and can even make an all-white plane look good! That's why I'm a big fan of the Finnair livery.
 
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Coal
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:44 am

Quoting ManekS (Reply 16):
Interesting. AA also happens to be recruiting a sales manager for SIN, which would make this rumor somewhat plausible?

AA already has a sales office in Singapore, so this could be to back fill someone leaving their current role. If it was a station manager, that would be different.

http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/where...internationalTickets/singapore.jsp

Would be great if they came to SIN, or at least to HKG. I plan to non-rev on AA to MIA from Singapore, which means I first need to get to NRT, PVG, or PEK, and at the price it costs to get there, I might as well pay for a Y ticket all the way.

Cheers
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Nxt Flts: MI RGN-SIN | SQ SIN-RGN-SIN | CX SIN-HKG-PVG | SQ PVG-SIN
 
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Acey559
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:39 pm

In internal documents right now they're calling us AMR Eagle. Not sure how long that will stick but for the interim that's the name we're being given.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:49 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 20):
In internal documents right now they're calling us AMR Eagle. Not sure how long that will stick but for the interim that's the name we're being given.

That's the legal name the holding company has had for over a decade. AMR Eagle, Inc. is the wholly-owned subsidiary of AMR Corporation that itself has two wholly-owned subsidiaries - American Eagle Airlines, Inc. and Executive Airlines, Inc.
 
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AA777223
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
I asked him if AA was going to start HKG? He said rumor was that they would start from DAL & LAX first with the 772's not used when replacing them with 77W's.

Do their 772s have the legs for this? I know their RR powerplants and MGTW rating are supposed to make them some of the longer-legged 77Es out there, but I think the 8200 mile trek might be tough for them or even the 77W (which contrary to popular believe has a very similar range to the 77E when fully loaded. It just carriers more stuff while doing so.). I can see LAX at ~7300 miles being much more plausible, but I just think that DFW to HKG might be a stretch with currently available equipment.

Feel free to roast me if I have made an error.
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rj777
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:01 pm

The 1st 777-300ER should be done within the next couple weeks, shouldn't it?
 
laca773
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
Apparently the airport areas are going to see the biggest changes in their hub cities as well as LON, TYO, SAO, PAR (surprising HKG too--they're begin to "share" things in HKG--WTF?) I asked him if AA was going to start HKG? He said rumor was that they would start from DAL & LAX first with the 772's not used when replacing them with 77W's. Apparently they're talking about adding SIN as an add-on to HKG where most OW airlines intersect CX, JL, QF, BA (AB 2013 from DUS); look for it Spring of 2013. They have orders to completely renovate all 772's first, then the 763's. Minor changes will be made to the 752's to hold them over until the new 321's arrive--laughing he said they're going to starting bolting the seats down. Continuing we should look for more things dark blue with bold reds and whites, and

Wouldn't it be in AMR/AA's interest to have CX do all the HKG flying?

OO is known for many, many mechanical delays with those old CRJs. I hope AA stays on top of them for that. I know AS has issues with them and they only have a small fleet flying for them.
 
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Acey559
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 21):

Guess I just never noticed it before, thanks for the clarification.
 
qqflyboy
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting rj777 (Reply 23):
The 1st 777-300ER should be done within the next couple weeks, shouldn't it?

Last I knew, delivery of the first bird is scheduled for November 17.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
Do their 772s have the legs for this?

They could do it, but would likely take weight penalties rather frequently. HKG-DFW is almost identical in length to HKG-EWR which UA flies with capable sCO 772s. Usually they can make it with a full passenger load, but they're not carrying cargo.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
(which contrary to popular believe has a very similar range to the 77E when fully loaded.

That used to be true, but the 77W range has kept creeping up. A 77W being delivered today has a good half hour or more of full-passenger range on one of AA's 772s.
 
N766UA
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
There's a lot of information here.

Which is exactly why I believe pretty much none of it. Airline workers, especially front-line employees, are some of the biggest gossipers/rumor starters on the planet. Consider all of that info to be a rumor and you'll be ok.
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Max Q
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:40 pm

I believe the GE powered 77E's operated by Airlines such as L Cal have the best range performance compared to the RR powered version.
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AA94
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:21 pm

I take all of this with a grain of salt. I like the way a lot of it sounds, but I'm not going to speculate based on other speculation.

We do know some truths, though. Of all the OP posted, the most plausible thing (IMO) is the livery change. We know that the 787s and Airbus aircraft can't do the polished aluminum that AA's birds have now, and considering that AA is working on emerging from bankruptcy as a fresh, new carrier, the timing of a brand refresh is ideal at this point.
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TWA772LR
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:15 pm

Does anyone have a mock up of what the livery described in this thread will look like? If it's like the one in my head, it will be very nice, and old-school!
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
TUSAA
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:10 am

So far there are 2 OO CRJ's painted in the current white AE color scheme.
 
n737aa
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:11 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 26):
Quoting rj777 (Reply 23):
The 1st 777-300ER should be done within the next couple weeks, shouldn't it?

Last I knew, delivery of the first bird is scheduled for November 17.

Yep, its behind schedule and should be third week in Nov.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 28):
Quoting olddominion727 (Thread starter):
There's a lot of information here.

Which is exactly why I believe pretty much none of it. Airline workers, especially front-line employees, are some of the biggest gossipers/rumor starters on the planet. Consider all of that info to be a rumor and you'll be ok.

First, those in the know don't say jack to the rank and file (including middle/front line mgt) let alone someone on the outside. Second, if you hear anything it is just rumor/wishful thinking/speculation, unless of course it was from Horton and the gang.

N737AA
 
timf
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:16 pm

I have a feeling we won't be seeing the new livery on the first 77W, especially if they are already painting OO CRJs in the current livery. Even if they plan on changing it when they exit bankruptcy, it's not like there's much effort required to paint a brand new aircraft that is already bare metal in the current livery. The change really only needs to be made in advance of the Airbus and 787 deliveries.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:44 pm

Quoting AA94 (Reply 30):
We do know some truths, though. Of all the OP posted, the most plausible thing (IMO) is the livery change.

I think AA management itself has also said it is going to refresh the livery.
 
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American 767
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:03 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 4):
As a side note, AA now has 188 active MD-80s, and 186 active 738s. The 738 is about to pass the MD-80, something I know a lot of us thought would never happen (AA use to operate 360 MD-80s!).


The 738 phase out is already on the horizon. although still years away. By the time the last MD-80 leaves the fleet, the 738 retirement will have begun.
Ben Soriano
 
airliner371
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 36):
the 738 retirement will have begun.

The 738s from the first batch.
 
WROORD
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:38 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 24):
Wouldn't it be in AMR/AA's interest to have CX do all the HKG flying?

LAX-HKG would be the third flight and on some days the fourth. Not sure there is so much demand. DFW would make more sense as currently there is no non-stop connection and it could give CX passangers some option for Central and South America.
 
NYCAAer
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RE: AA To Paint Aircraft Silver, No Buffing...?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:58 am

I heard a company rumor that the new livery is going to be a total departure from the current one, including the colors used, and that it will most likely be revealed on the new 77W. Apparently management is looking to rebrand as a whole new airline, leaving behind the bad reputation we've gained in the past few years.

After training on the 77W, I think it would be appropriate the reveal the new look with this plane. The AA 77W is going to be awesome, trust me! There are going to be passenger amenities we've never offered before, and will be appreciated by all.