qf74
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F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:51 pm

The state of Louisiana is backing a group of investors wanting to purchase Frontier and move it to NOLA.

http://www.225batonrouge.com/article...112/121009775/0/BUSINESSREPORT0401

It's the first I've heard of it, does anyone else have any insight? Do you think it could work?

As a New Orleans resident, I'd love to see it happen (but I have my doubts).
 
commavia
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:54 pm

What a stupid idea. More politicians fooling themselves into thinking they understand the airline industry ...

[Edited 2012-10-09 12:55:26]
 
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drerx7
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:57 pm

I think this would be a disaster for everyone involved.

"Every major city in Louisiana..." Louisiana doesn't have any real major cities except New Orleans. Even less important when in comes to air travel. No-one is going to fly from BTR-MSY, and F9 equipment is too large to economically connect SHV or AEX/LCH and the like to MSY.

Then there is the real issue of the loyal carriers...namely WN...you piss off WN and they either:
1.) Retalliate and finally disconnected the breathing machine from F9 via competition or...
2.) They retreat/stagnate from MSY and F9 still collapses - leaving MSY with pre-Katrina levels of service.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
No-one is going to fly from BTR-MSY, and F9 equipment is too large to economically connect SHV or AEX/LCH and the like to MSY.

Yeah, I doubt that would be part of the plan "if" it ever got off the ground. Poorly worded article in some respect.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 2):
Then there is the real issue of the loyal carriers...namely WN...you piss off WN and they either:
1.) Retalliate and finally disconnected the breathing machine from F9 via competition or...
2.) They retreat/stagnate from MSY and F9 still collapses - leaving MSY with pre-Katrina levels of service.

I guess the public would have to decided. Stick with WN which has provided strong service to MSY since 1979 or give a locally owned company a shot. It would depend on many factors, not the least of which would be the amount of service offered. I can tell you that on the whole people down here are fiercely loyal to local brands.

For the record I don't think this will happen, but I have to admit it's intriguing on some level. For personal reasons, it'd sure be something to see.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:12 pm

A regional focus city COULD work for F9 in MSY. With routes to other medium-large cities in the south to MSY and a prop operation going on connecting other "major" cities in Louisiana to MSY, but with planes about SF3 size. If F9 can start routes from MSY to Central America, that could be a gold mine for them.

But if they want a domestic hub in the South, MEM would be better. Less competition since DL is all but pulled out and MEM is a larger city than MSY. Also, it is a better location geographically. But most of all, WN is not in MEM.

Uprooting completely from DEN to MSY would pretty much spell the end for Frontier Airlines as we know it.
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
airliner371
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
WN is not in MEM.

With the FL merger that is changing....
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 5):
With the FL merger that is changing....

Doesn't the City of Memphis have an anti-WN policy? If so, I could see FL's ATL route being an exception.
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
PHX787
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:41 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
What a stupid idea. More politicians fooling themselves into thinking they understand the airline industry ...

MSY is in a horrible location too. Too far south for any decent connections. I can see someone buying it and establishing a focus city in MSY but nothing like what they have in DEN.
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jetmatt777
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:42 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6):
Doesn't the City of Memphis have an anti-WN policy? If so, I could see FL's ATL route being an exception.

How would a city have an anti-WN policy. That is against the law.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
airliner371
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
How would a city have an anti-WN policy. That is against the law.
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6):
Doesn't the City of Memphis have an anti-WN policy? If so, I could see FL's ATL route being an exception.

It was never an official thing so it was not illegal but yes, the city made Memphis look very "Ugly" to SWA in order to protect the DL MEM hub. Ever since the DL hub cuts MEM is bowing down to WN.
 
point2point
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:47 pm

If these pols are really serious, wouldn't it just be so much less expensive to start up from scratch?????

Get what planes are needed to what routes are needed with what people are needed and just go from there.......

After all, they are the politicians, and they have whatever pull is needed to get this done quickly, unlike a non-political entity.


 
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 10):
If these pols are really serious, wouldn't it just be so much less expensive to start up from scratch?????

The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate. A from scratch airline would require more $$$ and take much longer eg California Pacific.
 
point2point
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 11):
The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate. A from scratch airline would require more $$$ and take much longer eg California Pacific.

Yes, okay, but with the FAA OC comes all of the contracts, employees, leases, etc, etc.

I'm not quite sure of the situation with CP, but somehow they do seem to be doing something that is simply taking such a long time.

And also, what is the $$$$ that RAH will sell off F9 for? Since F9 is now turning a plus profit, suddenly value has to go up, eh?


 
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:58 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 9):
the city made Memphis look very "Ugly" to SWA in order to protect the DL MEM hub. Ever since the DL hub cuts MEM is bowing down to WN.

Interesting, I am curious as to what tactics Memphis used to make their city look less appealing.
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GentFromAlaska
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:11 pm

F9 already tried MEM to MCO and If memory serves me MEM-DEN. As I recall It lasted about a year.

This might have worked with the E190 but only a handful of those remain. In lieu of purchasing an airline another thought might be to offer incentives or financial guarantees which would allow one or two airframes fly around the state on a continuous basis or something mirroring charter work.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
jporterfi
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:14 pm

I really don't think this would work. While moving F9 out of DEN certainly has its benefits (they are facing stiff competition in DEN from UA and WN), MSY doesn't seem like a good place for them to relocate. It doesn't have enough O&D traffic to justify F9 moving there, and it is poorly placed as a connecting hub: it will face strong competition from UA at IAH and WN at HOU, and to an extent DL and WN at ATL. I also agree with other a.netters in that intrastate service within Louisiana would certainly not work: it just doesn't have many major cities that are spaced far apart, and that would merit service with the A318/A319. Honestly I'm not sure what can be done to save F9...
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:21 pm

It could work out just as well as Pride Air, or Air New Orleans, or fantasy Air Gumbo lol. Not only is size an issue at New Orleans, demographics as well. What % of potential area passengers make enough to be able to fly? Maybe if they set up an Allegiant-type at MSY, getting folks to come to the French Quarter,etc, might have a chance. But if someone thinks throwing a few flights to IAD, LAX, MIA, ORD, MCO , as well as AEX, SHV,MLU etc will work, well, enjoy the business you do after the airline gig. Oh, may as well toss a Caravan to Morgan City while you're at it.  
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:28 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
I am curious as to what tactics Memphis used to make their city look less appealing.

One thought which comes to mind is FedEx and potential inbound and outbound delays at the wrong time of day. I think that is why you will never see scheduled WN metal in MEM. I connected through MEM in 2004 on a 757 NW flight from SEA. Memphis center had the flight deck slow the aircraft down over somewhere over Kansas because of inbound traffic delays said to be FedEx in good weather.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:09 pm

Posted in a different thread...

www.newfrontierairlines.com
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17):
One thought which comes to mind is FedEx and potential inbound and outbound delays at the wrong time of day. I think that is why you will never see scheduled WN metal in MEM. I connected through MEM in 2004 on a 757 NW flight from SEA. Memphis center had the flight deck slow the aircraft down over somewhere over Kansas because of inbound traffic delays said to be FedEx in good weather.

I thought the beauty of these air freight hubs was that they operated the vast bulk of their flights at "off" times vs passenger airlines(??)
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deltaffindfw
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):

www.newfrontierairlines.com

Nice website. I can't wait to see the A330 on SHV-MSY flights  
 
neveragain
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:22 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 13):
Interesting, I am curious as to what tactics Memphis used to make their city look less appealing.

  

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 9):
It was never an official thing so it was not illegal but yes, the city made Memphis look very "Ugly" to SWA in order to protect the DL MEM hub.

Oh that's priceless. So Southwest approached MSCAA and said, "We'd like to serve your airport." What exactly do you think MSCAA did? "Well, Southwest, you can fly here, but you're going to get the ticket counters farthest from the security checkpoint and the gates farthest from the restrooms. And no parking spot for the station manager!" It couldn't propose charge Southwest discriminatory rates because that would be against the law. Maybe it falsified economic and demographic data to make the region look like a real dump?

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17):
One thought which comes to mind is FedEx and potential inbound and outbound delays at the wrong time of day. I think that is why you will never see scheduled WN metal in MEM. I connected through MEM in 2004 on a 757 NW flight from SEA. Memphis center had the flight deck slow the aircraft down over somewhere over Kansas because of inbound traffic delays said to be FedEx in good weather.

You had one flight to MEM in 2004, noticed the plane slowed down over Kansas, and concluded that MEM had massive airspace delays? You seriously think WN is concerned with delays in MEM when it is flying into SFO, PHL, and LGA? In all likelihood, you will see WN metal in MEM next year.

[Edited 2012-10-09 15:25:01]

[Edited 2012-10-09 15:25:55]
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:24 pm

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 20):
Nice website. I can't wait to see the A330 on SHV-MSY flights

Nice paint scheme though. Very Mardi Gras-ish. Beats the pants off of Air Gumbo's vomit plane. 
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:35 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 19):

True many banks of flights show up at night on or after 10 PM CST. With that said I've monitored BNA on flight aware on many-many occasions at various times of the day. You can usually see several FedEx flight heading to MEM from somewhere throughout the day. Its actually pretty amazing. I don't monitor MEM often but one night I saw one FedEx flight after another lining up for MEM at or near LIT. I guess they follow the I-40 corridor into MEM
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
airliner371
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:36 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 17):
I connected through MEM in 2004

I think 2004 says it all. WN will certainly be in MEM. The 2004 MEM is nothing like 2012.

Quoting neveragain (Reply 21):
you will see WN metal in MEM next year.

100% we will see it.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 21):
You had one flight to MEM in 2004, noticed the plane slowed down over Kansas, and concluded that MEM had massive airspace delays? You seriously think WN is concerned with delays in MEM when it is flying into SFO, PHL, and LGA? In all likelihood, you will see WN metal in MEM next year.

LOL.. IIRC, for many years MEM was the #1 on-time hub in the country with a 90%+ on-time percentage. MEM has three runways and very little Fedex traffic most of the day...it is hardly congested.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:22 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
But most of all, WN is not in MEM.

But Delta is.

And every time Frontier has encroached on Delta (Northwest) territory, Delta (Northwest) has hit back disproportionately hard.

One could get paranoid.

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 11):
The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate. A from scratch airline would require more $$$ and take much longer eg California Pacific.

Whatever you think Frontier's AOC would cost (with all that it entails) add $150 million to that number for Republic to come out clean.

The smartest thing Republic ever did.  

mariner
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neveragain
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 19):
I thought the beauty of these air freight hubs was that they operated the vast bulk of their flights at "off" times vs passenger airlines(??)
Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 25):
LOL.. IIRC, for many years MEM was the #1 on-time hub in the country with a 90%+ on-time percentage. MEM has three runways and very little Fedex traffic most of the day...it is hardly congested.

The most recent Memphis Master Plan (published in 2009-10) looked at the issue of peak-period airfield utilization and whether the airfield could meet FedEx and Delta's long-term hubbing needs. I recall seeing an insightful histogram depicting scheduled airfield movements over the course of the typical day during the busy month that illustrated how FedEx's daytime bank slotted in nicely around the Delta midday and late-afternoon banks. As for the FedEx overnight peak, the only passenger movements likely to be affected would be late-evening (11p and later) terminating flights. Given how few aircraft Delta RON at MEM, this is likely to be the last flight of the day from other hubs, particularly those west of MEM.

Reference Page 24.
Link: http://www.mscaa.com/themes/memairport/images/MPExecSum.pdf

One could hardly argue, especially with the Delta capacity cuts that have taken affect since this work was completed, that MEM has an airfield capacity problem...even if the FedEx arrivals are spaced out over the various airspace fixes surrounding MEM.
 
jporterfi
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:01 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):
jporterf

"All of the markets will pay the same fare to New Orleans, projected at $59 one way based upon current fuel prices"

"Alexandria, Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Lake Charles, Monroe, and Shreveport are guaranteed 3 flights daily to New Orleans"

  

I give it 3 weeks before they raise fares. These routes sound like routes that would qualify for Essential Air Service subsidies; how is F9 supposed to fly them profitably with no subsidies? I can't imagine there would be enough demand to support 3 daily flights, especially to BTR. Maybe 3 flights on an E120, but certainly not 3 E190 flights, in my opinion.
 
Flaps
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:30 am

How does one possibly make MEM look any worse than it really is? The local government and population have done a masterful job already of creating that image.

As for F9 and MSY, I agree with the above, it's Pride Air all over again, OTOH I do like the concept of regional airlines as true regional operators instead of massive network feeders. The likes of a new round of AL,NC,SO,PI etc has a certain appeal for old folks like me.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:42 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 29):
As for F9 and MSY, I agree with the above, it's Pride Air all over again,

I disagree with that. Pride Air was started not long after the oil bust in the city. It was probably the worst time for something like that to take place. The early/mid 80's were not kind to the New Orleans economy. Fast forward to 2012... the city has been receiving accolades for it's burgeoning business climate from national publications left and right. It's a night and day difference.

http://www.fastcompany.com/3001140/big-easiest-place-build-startup

http://gnoinc.org/news/region-news/g...-orleans-fuels-a-growing-industry/

http://gnoinc.org/news/region-news/a...nto-americas-fastest-growing-city/

http://gnoinc.org/news/region-news/louisianas-diverse-tech-mecca/
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:04 am

This is kind of a crazy idea but lets be honest here Republic is going to spin this airline off as a loss they would sell it to these people at a great price if they are willing to buy it.

It just seems a little crazy but clearly someone has spent money on the planning of this. Virgin America might investors might want to sell also if these guys have cash and are willing to buy?

I dont understand in the report it says service to Serving all cities now served and adding service to national cities such as Seattle, Austin, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Hartford, Portland, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, Columbus OH, Albuquerque and San Diego.

Doesnt Delta already offer service to Salt Lake City from MSY? None of these cities have MSY service?

Is there any chance this is just some MBAs report out there that the media picked up online? When i was an MBA student i made several reports that looked like this but just ideas? Can anyone confirm this was "presented" to the city of New Orleans? on Yahoo! M7 does pull up quite a few websites
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:11 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 31):
I dont understand in the report it says service to Serving all cities now served and adding service to national cities such as Seattle, Austin, San Antonio, Pittsburgh, Hartford, Portland, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Salt Lake City, Oklahoma City, Columbus OH, Albuquerque and San Diego.

Doesnt Delta already offer service to Salt Lake City from MSY? None of these cities have MSY service?

Out of the cities you listed, SLC is served by DL, but none of the others are. Also on the route map of currently served cities SFO isn't listed so I can assume this was made before UA restarted MSY-SFO. They just need to update things a bit.

If these guys have the money and want to make a go of this, I'm all for it. Money talks, especially when you have a situation like the one F9 is in right now.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:18 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 32):
If these guys have the money and want to make a go of this, I'm all for it. Money talks, especially when you have a situation like the one F9 is in right now.

There is certainly no doubt if its real Republic hasnt already reached out to them. Clearly a sale would be the loose the least amount of money for Republic even if they totally leave DEN they have a responsility one could argue to the shareholders to not listen and really consider a sale even if they think the idea is crazy and will kill Frontier.
 
Flaps
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:21 am

In order for this to be successful F9 would have to rely heavily on regional and local O&D. They would have to provide something different enough to draw pax off of the legacies. MSY would have to compete with a global network carrier at IAH and WN at HOU, not a pretty thought. Perhaps if they could find a way as a regional niche player catering to higher yield business traffic they could make something work but certainly not with a fleet of Airbii. Perhaps 190's, the MRJ or the C-series but definitely not the bigger busses that make up the current F9 fleet.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:21 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 31):
This is kind of a crazy idea but lets be honest here Republic is going to spin this airline off as a loss they would sell it to these people at a great price if they are willing to buy it.

When has anyone - especially Republic - ever suggested that they are going to spin Frontier off at a loss?

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 18:24:46]
aeternum nauta
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting Bobloblaw (Reply 11):
The most valuable asset F9 has is its FAA Operating Certificate

If that's the case then I'm sure DL would be willing to sell Comair's certificate. It would give them a piece of paper without the liabilities attached.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):

That website is priceless!

It seems to genuinely believe that MSY can become a hub with a focus on LatAm. F9 would be right up against Spirit over at FLL, and somehow I can't see them coming out on top. And in case we had any illusions about their growth plans, they provide DL's ATL route map and a picture of ICN (yes, Seoul!)

If F9 were to do this, the first thing they would need to do is rightsize their fleet. B1900s are about all that's necessary for MSY-BTR, maybe a E120 with connections
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
airliner371
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:29 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):
When has anyone - especially Republic - ever suggested that they are going to spin Frontier off at a loss?

The way I interpreted the sentence, he is saying the entire F9 investment will be sold as a loss to Republic. Overall, even if F9 is making a profit when they sell the airline, Republic will have lost a lot.
 
NWADTWE16
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:33 am

This IS the most rediculous thing ive ever seen! When i was like 11 i created my own fantasy airline and i drafted documents like this. I could dream whatever i wanted because it was FANTASY LOL..this is hillarious...i wonder what the hard working people at the real FRONTIER think of this crap. People need to quit writing them off. They turned a profit, will probably turn another one this quarter and are consistently everyday in the 90% LF range. F9 will be around long after this site loses its domain address
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:45 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 37):
The way I interpreted the sentence, he is saying the entire F9 investment will be sold as a loss to Republic. Overall, even if F9 is making a profit when they sell the airline, Republic will have lost a lot.

How so?

The basis of the separation is the FAPA agreement of Spring 2011, in which Republic agreed to take a minority holding in Frontier. The amount of that minority was not specified.

Nor has Republic ever publicly said which of the three alternatives were most attractive to them - (i) an outright sale (ii) bringing in a private investor( with Republic retaining a minority position) or (iii) a spin-off, perhaps involving present RJET shareholders, with Republic maintaining a minority position.

Republic has always said that an outright sale, while possible, seems the least likely and In either of the other two options, Republic stands to make quite a deal of money.

Much as the venture capitalists in JeBlue (George Soros, e.g.), made a lot of money when they "spun off" JetBlue to the market.

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:06:47]
aeternum nauta
 
panpan
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:46 am

There's no shortage of stupid ideas in louisiana. Maybe the new airline will go to the new airport they want to build in the bayou.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:49 am

WOW....I am not even 1/3 into the proposal and there are some wildly optimistic (and some logically questionable) assumptions baked into this proposal.

Sent this to my family and friends back in Looosiana and cant wait for the responses :P
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting panpan (Reply 40):
Maybe the new airline will go to the new airport they want to build in the bayou.

They shelved that idea about five years ago. Wetland conservation groups weren't exactly in favor.
 
PHX787
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:59 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 18):
Posted in a different thread...
Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 20):
Nice website. I can't wait to see the A330 on SHV-MSY flights

Oh wow, I have no idea what they're planning on doing with this. Are these International flights? Domestic flights? Are they merging with F9? How did F9 agree to this name? It's crazy
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MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:04 am

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 41):
WOW....I am not even 1/3 into the proposal and there are some wildly optimistic (and some logically questionable) assumptions baked into this proposal.

Sent this to my family and friends back in Looosiana and cant wait for the responses :P

Makes for entertaining reading though right? They put a lot of work into this, I'll give them that.
 
airliner371
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:32 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
How so?

What he is saying is Republic when it sells, spins off or whatever they decide to do, will have lost more money on F9 then it is made. Thus, Frontier was a loss to Republic. Down right simple.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:55 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 45):
What he is saying is Republic when it sells, spins off or whatever they decide to do, will have lost more money on F9 then it is made. Thus, Frontier was a loss to Republic. Down right simple.

That isn't my interpretation of it at all.

BB has always said - and told the staff - that Republic will make its money when there is an IPO of the spun-off Frontier.

Until then - he has said - Republic will be "a patient investor."

mariner
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mtnwest1979
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:58 am

Maybe Republic can sell Frontier to folks trying New PEOPLExpress to get going. That'd be kind of funny for people that know why. Full circle lol
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
HPRamper
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:00 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 15):
It doesn't have enough O&D traffic to justify F9 moving there, and it is poorly placed as a connecting hub: it will face strong competition from UA at IAH and WN at HOU, and to an extent DL and WN at ATL.

Actually, MSY is not in a terrible location as an East-West connecting hub. Probably better even than IAH. Of course, F9 would have to completely abandon its current market region and fully embrace the South.

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 15):
Honestly I'm not sure what can be done to save F9...

Leave DEN for greener, less competitive pastures.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 19):
I thought the beauty of these air freight hubs was that they operated the vast bulk of their flights at "off" times vs passenger airlines(??)

They do - morning departure banks at around 3-4ish and evening arrival banks at around 11p-12a. The other turns are during daytime operating hours but not really at peak times. Mid-morning, late afternoon.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 To Relocate To MSY?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):
Leave DEN for greener, less competitive pastures.

Why? Frontier is presently flying profitably at DEN.

In Q2, Frontier was the largest contributor - $14 million - to the Republic profit.

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...ines-gives-a-lift-to.html?page=all

"Frontier Airlines’ parent company reported a “dramatic turnaround” over the past year Wednesday, led largely by increasing profits for its Denver-hubbed airline."

mariner

[Edited 2012-10-09 20:04:23]
aeternum nauta