doulasc
Topic Author
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Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:25 am

I realized that Air France served MIA in the 1960s and 1970s but they did not fly from MIA-ORY or CDG then. Correct me
if I am wrong.Their operatoin was flights to the French Antilles like Guadeloupe and Martinique. What aircraft were operated
and when did Air France first start MIA-CDG(or ORY). I don't think Air France still operates flights from MIA-French Antillies.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:55 am

Air France began Miami-Paris in the 1980s, around '87-'88, IIRC.

Air France still flies Miami-Pointe Pitre daily with a stop in Port Au Prince.
a.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I don't think Air France still operates flights from MIA-French Antillies.

Yes they do. Current schedule shows 5 x week AF A320 service MIA-PAP-PTP. From PTP they also operate to FDF and CAY.

I think they have 2 A320s based in PTP to operate those routes. Over the years they've also used the Caravelle, 727 and 737 on those routes.

Looks like MIA-Caribbean services started in the late 1960s. There's nothing to MIA in a 1966 timetable but the May 1969 timetable shows a daily AF Caravelle MIA-PAP-SJU-ANU-PTP-FDF. Also 2 Caravelles a week PTP-FDF-POS-GEO-CAY. One flight also stopped in BGI and the other in PBM. There were also 3 DC-4s a week PTP-SXM-SJU.

Apart from the MIA services there were also 2 707s a week JFK-PTP. One flight continued to FDF.

I think AF started Paris-Miami sometime in themid to late 1980s. Found a news item dated April 1985 saying they had applied for rights to serve MIA as a stop en route to MEX and were optimistic it would be approved for service starting in 1986, but can't find anything specific re the service starting. In 1985 they operated to MEX via IAH.

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:36:41]

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:37:26]
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:20 am

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
when did Air France first start MIA-CDG(or ORY).
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 1):
Air France began Miami-Paris in the 1980s, around '87-'88, IIRC.

Correct. AF received traffic rights to operate MIA and SFO from Paris-CDG in 1986. Flights to MIA started to be operated with a B747-200.
Right after UTA was bought up by AF in 1991, the route was operated temporarily by UTA on behalf of AF with a DC10.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:23 am

So how was this Caribbean flying linked to Paris if MIA didn't have AF Paris service between the late 60s and late 90s? Was it just via the JFK-PTP flights, was there direct service from one of the island airports to Paris, or was the MIA-island service independent of the rest of the AF network?
 
goldorak
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 4):
was there direct service from one of the island airports to Paris

Yes, there are nonstop flights from Guadeloupe (PTP) and Martinique (FDF) to ORY. They were already existing at that time, although they were probably not daily/multiple daily as today. For your information, if you look at the statistics for number of pax on transatlantic routes, ORY-FDF and ORY-PTP are among the top busiest routes.
 
doulasc
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:59 am

I beleive the only MIA-Paris(ORY) service in the 1960s and 1970s was operated by Aeromexico, MEX-MIA-MAD-ORY.
 
neveragain
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:08 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
In 1985 they operated to MEX via IAH.

Unrelated to the thread, but I believe this service started 1970ish after the opening of IAH. KL served AMS-YUL-HOU-MEX for 10+ years before IAH opened.
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:24 pm

A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.
Look, AF switched to 77W for the MIA route, but soon (from April 2013), they will restart to send their 744s.
A shame the route is no longer daily though
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
jfk777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:48 pm

Many traveling through Miami in teh 1970's through AF flew to Paris since they saw an Air France counter, National airlines was the first one to fly nonstop to Paris a few times weekly with Dc-10-30 in the mid 1970's. In the 20 plus years AF has flown to MIA from CDG almost every long haul plane in the fleet has flown the route except for the A380.
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:57 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
years AF has flown to MIA from CDG almost every long haul plane in the fleet has flown the route except for the A380

I think the A332 never flew to MIA
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
jfk777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:24 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 10):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):years AF has flown to MIA from CDG almost every long haul plane in the fleet has flown the route except for the A380
I think the A332 never flew to MIA

Like I said "almost" every long haul type.
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:37 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
Like I said "almost" every long haul type.

So, that would be:

DC-10
742
744
A343
77W

I don't know if AF ever sent their 772s, I don't think so, too?!
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:37 pm

OAG for '63 shows no AF service to/from MIA in either the Summer or Winter schedules.
The only service I can recall to the French islands out of MIA in those days was on PA.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Over the years they've also used the Caravelle, 727 and 737 on those routes.

In the mid 1970s, these routes were flown with 737-247s leased from Western, in full Air France colors. The aircraft leased from WA were the only 737s to carry AF's old blue / white scheme. I think they were eventually repainted into AF's red / white / blue scheme.
Seaholm Maples are #1!
 
AirGAbon
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:51 pm

Out of topic, but also from Martinique (FDF) AF used to fly to CCS with B737-300 isn't it? And also to PBM and BEL as far as I remember.

Why they didn't try to extend the operations from Martinique and Guadeloupe to other destinations with the A320? I know TX is doing it now, but unfortunately they stopped to fly to PTY and SJO.
 
timz
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:44 pm

11/67 OAG says AF Caravelles were to start 3/week at MIA on 15 Nov. No AF at MIA before that.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 5):
Yes, there are nonstop flights from Guadeloupe (PTP) and Martinique (FDF) to ORY. They were already existing at that time, although they were probably not daily/multiple daily as today.

In the peak summer months in 1969 there were 9 707s week from ORY to either FDF or PTP. Some flights served both points. Two flights continued to CAY and two continued to other points in South America.

One flight stopped at LIS between ORY and PTP. That one went all the way to SCL with 6 stops, ORY-LIS-PTP-CCS-BOG-UIO-LIM-SCL. Another operated ORY-PTP-BOG-LIM.
 
goldorak
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:29 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.

May be, but certainly not in its actual configuration which has too many premium seats (P & J) for CDG-MIA

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
In the peak summer months in 1969 there were 9 707s week from ORY to either FDF or PTP. Some flights served both points. Two flights continued to CAY and two continued to other points in South America.

Interesting. Thank you !
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:03 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):

Ryanair will offer full free hot meals on all its flights before AF send its A380 to MIA ...
 
jfk777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:24 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 18):
Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.
May be, but certainly not in its actual configuration which has too many premium seats (P & J) for CDG-MIA

Air France seems to have an J class problem in Miami. Lufthansa sends their A380 to Miami with many J seats and they fill the plane. BA has two 744 and one 772 daily to MIA, they sell those F and J seats with no problem. WHY does AF have a problem selling J class seats to Miami ?
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:52 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):

I am wondering the same... Very good question.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
Ryanair will offer full free hot meals on all its flights before AF send its A380 to MIA ...

Maybe in another configuration, and during peak season only
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
AirGAbon
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:26 pm

A great video (January 2012) showing at SDQ, the AF B744 landing from CDG just followed by the A320 landing from PTP. Amazing to see both AF aircraft at the same time at SDQ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J79gY8dAtJc&feature=relmfu
 
AirGAbon
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
I don't think Air France still operates flights from MIA-French Antillies.

And I forgot, the video of the AF A320 at MIA (July 2012) to PAP-PTP-FDF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz2ail3WSwU
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 8):
A bit off topic, btI don't know why, I am sure that AF will send their A380s someday to MIA.
Look, AF switched to 77W for the MIA route, but soon (from April 2013), they will restart to send their 744s.
A shame the route is no longer daily though

It's daily most of the year, including right now.

It still perplexes me how AF/KL do so poorly in a market others - especially LX, AZ and BA - have no problem.
a.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:39 am

Maybe it's because Germans and others have properties in MIA and not French people ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:35 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 21):
Quoting FlySSC (Reply 19):
Ryanair will offer full free hot meals on all its flights before AF send its A380 to MIA ...

Maybe in another configuration, and during peak season only

There is no plan for AF to have another config in the A380.

Moreover, AF has only 12 A380 on order. 8 are already in service and there are many Premium destinations/markets in Asia or South America much more lucrative than MIA where AF could/will use its A380....
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 26):
There is no plan for AF to have another config in the A380.

Moreover, AF has only 12 A380 on order. 8 are already in service and there are many Premium destinations/markets in Asia or South America much more lucrative than MIA where AF could/will use its A380....

OK, thanks
Which are the next A380 destinations?
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xdlx
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:04 pm

Wonder if AF could operate a A319 in all F/C MIA-JFK-CDG-JFK-MIA
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 27):
Which are the next A380 destinations?

PVG (subject to Chinese authorirties approval ...)
GIG
PEK
HKG (?)
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:55 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 29):

Thanks.
Do you know why AF switched MIA to 744 from April 2013?
Do all 744s have AVOD now?
Is GEXB still flying?
Thanks
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:01 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 25):
Maybe it's because Germans and others have properties in MIA and not French people ?

French own a ton of properties in South Florida. There has been a significant migration of French to Miami, especially French Jews, in the past decade. They are the third largest European-born community in South Florida after Italians and Russians; and the French government helped establish a French K-6 school in South Miami to cater to the growing ex-pat community.

It could be they simply don't travel home often, aren't as wealthy as other South Florida ex-pat communities and, primarily, that Miami's French business ties aren't as strong as to other countires like Spain, Italy and Switzlerland.
a.
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:36 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 31):

Thanks, that's interesting

[Edited 2012-10-16 03:36:42]
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:59 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 30):
Do you know why AF switched MIA to 744 from April 2013?
Do all 744s have AVOD now?
Is GEXB still flying?

All the B744 are now retrofitted with the new seats, the new IFE and PTVs in all Classes.
F-GEXB is the last aircraft to be refurbished ans is currently in AMS to receive its new interior.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 30):
Do you know why AF switched MIA to 744 from April 2013?

Bigger capacity in Y for the high peak summer season : 396 Y in the B744 agianst 341 W/Y in the B77W
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 33):
F-GEXB is the last aircraft to be refurbished ans is currently in AMS to receive its new interior

Thanks for the info.
Inever thought GEXB could still be flying. I remember that it was stored in 2010 IIRC (?)

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 33):
All the B744 are now retrofitted with the new seats, the new IFE and PTVs in all Classes.

Do GITI/H/J have also new seats in Y and new AVOD? These a/c were already equipped with PTVs from nose to tail.

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 33):
Bigger capacity in Y for the high peak summer season : 396 Y in the B744 agianst 341 W/Y in the B77W

That's cool. I saw the fares dropping for summer thanks to the switch to 744.
When the 744 will be removed, I wonder if AF will add another frequency to MIA as they did before...
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L
 
FlySSC
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 34):
Do GITI/H/J have also new seats in Y and new AVOD? These a/c were already equipped with PTVs from nose to tail.

F-GITH / TI / TJ will be fitted with the new seats but will keep the existing Rockwell & Collins AVOD IFE (similar to the one on the B777 & A330/340).
The 4 other aircraft (F-GITD / TE / TF / XB ) have the brand new Panasonic AVOD system (much more reliable )

Quoting LY777 (Reply 34):
I remember that it was stored in 2010 IIRC (?)

It was stored during 10 months from Sept 2009 to Jun 2010.
 
LY777
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RE: Air France In Miami In The 1960s-70s.

Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 35):

Thanks.
I heard the new panasonic system was great
Flown:A3B2,A320,A321,A332,A343,A388,717,727,732,734,735,738,73W,742/744/748,752,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W,D8,D10,L

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