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Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 am

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...wont-shut/articleshow/16745608.cms

Quote:
NEW DELHI: One of the two brand new Boeing 787 Dreamliners that Air India got last month is cooling its heels at Delhi airport since last week after its front cargo door developed a snag and now cannot be shut for the plane to get airborne. The aircraft, VT-ADN, was the second Dreamliner that AI got from Boeing on September 19, 11 days after getting the first one VT-ANH.

Sources say this Dreamliner remained in commercial domestic service barely for few days. Last Friday its front cargo hold door hinge 'disintegrated', while the baggage was being offloaded after the plane landed from Chennai. It has been grounded since then.

"The thing is that nothing hit the cargo door and the part simply disintegrated on its own. Boeing is to send a replacement part from Europe to Delhi via London but it hasn't come so far. The airline gets a bad name because of the composite material trouble (the light material B-787 is made of)," said sources.

AI spokesman G P Rao said, "VT-AND aircraft is on ground at Delhi due to disintegration of forward actuator arm bearing of forward cargo door. The spares are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday and the aircraft will return to service on Thursday. Boeing is investigating the incident along with DGCA."

What a strange incident. Can someone with more techincal expertise perhaps explain what could cause this bearing to suddenly disintegrate?
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Thread starter):

What a strange incident. Can someone with more techincal expertise perhaps explain what could cause this bearing to suddenly disintegrate?

Until we see any more cases like this, operator error or sabotage are about the only possibilities. I have yet to work on a 787, but I have a fair bit of time with Boeing products, and these things really don't just "fall apart" on their own.

Completely inaccurate reporting of the situation is always a possibility as well.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:57 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Thread starter):
The airline gets a bad name because of the composite material trouble (the light material B-787 is made of)," said sources.

Pretty sure the airline gets a bad name from Air India and Air India alone. But I like the spin that composites are the reason  
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:05 am

I'm not really a Boeing fan any more than Airbus and I'm not nationalistic in the least, but this seems pretty sensational - and not in a good way. I'd bet a few bucks that this has more to do with Air India than with Boeing.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:25 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 3):
I'd bet a few bucks that this has more to do with Air India than with Boeing.

Well they did tow a 747 into a baggage trolley at Chennai the other day...   

[Edited 2012-10-09 19:26:29]
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:35 am

 

AI might not be the brightest bulb on the aviation Christmas tree but I will give them a little more credit. It is not unheard of to have issues on a new type especially with new materials. Just because none of the other airlines have had this problem does not mean it is not possible.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 1):
I have yet to work on a 787, but I have a fair bit of time with Boeing products, and these things really don't just "fall apart" on their own.


If it just is not correctly mounted it can sometimes happen. Component can break for many reasons, and maybe there was some impact at the previous flight etc., This is no big deal!!
Just shame that the plane has to be taken out of operation.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:59 am

Oh sure, it just miraculously disintegrated.
And that particular media source has already blamed it on the composite structure.
Have we had a similar report from ANA, JAL, or Ethiopian? I certainly haven't heard of it.

Maybe they're just trying to strong arm Boeing Finance into somehow financing another 787 they cannot afford to take delivery of.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 6):
and maybe there was some impact at the previous flight etc.

and that might explain the "disintegration." Maybe if the part were aluminum they would have bent it severely and then it would have fractured and instead it (more dramatically) fractured after no ductile failure. Either way, it was a result of misuse if that's the case.

It may well be a design issue and something that Boeing has to correct, but Air India's wording in this has me pretty skeptical.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:44 am

Both 787s have had bird strikes recently.. I wonder if the impact damaged a component?

I'm not sure what the properties of composites are in terms of denting behavior and such...

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 8):
Air India's wording in this has me pretty skeptical.

Just to clarify, this is Air India's wording:

Quote:
VT-AND aircraft is on ground at Delhi due to disintegration of forward actuator arm bearing of forward cargo door. The spares are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday and the aircraft will return to service on Thursday. Boeing is investigating the incident along with DGCA.

What causes you to be skeptical about this? Do you think AI has randomly decided to ground the aircraft without any failure? Do you think that they are lying about when the spare parts will come in?
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:49 am

Can someone provide some drawings of what this part is/does?
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:08 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):

I suspect the item in question is the pivoting arm mechanism seen in the following photos.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc416/intelmani5/United%20Hanger/IMG_3093.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/...mani5/United%20Hanger/IMG_3093.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc416/intelmani5/United%20Hanger/IMG_3101.jpg

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/...mani5/United%20Hanger/IMG_3101.jpg

Such a mechanism appears to be Boeing's standard design for opening lower lobe cargo doors. One of the arms is driven via angular displacement about a pivot point, which straightens the linkage opening the door. It appears one of the bearings in this linkage may have failed.

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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:08 am

This sounds like a situation where someone drove a baggage truck into the plane and then said "I didn't do anything it just fell apart!" whilst looking shifty and hoping noone will notice at tear a strip off them 
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:50 pm

Do we know for a fact that this part is made out of CFRP, or are we just assuming it is because it's a 787?

And if it is, is this unique to the 787 or do other aircraft also use CFRP in this part?
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:48 pm

if the bearing failed you can bet it wasn't CFRP, if the link failed it's a maybe but I doubt it
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:15 pm

Quoting aeroblogger (Thread starter):
Can someone with more techincal expertise perhaps explain what could cause this bearing to suddenly disintegrate?

It's not clear. There are several bearings in the opening linkage, as previously posted. In addition, the door itself attaches to the fuselage by way of a huge piano hinge.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):

Do we know for a fact that this part is made out of CFRP, or are we just assuming it is because it's a 787?

We know for a fact that it's *not* CFRP. None of the hinge mechanisms or actuator links are.

What makes me very suspicious of this as a ramp-rash incident is that "disintegration" implies a catastrophic failure, which implies an overload. Thanks to maximum wind requirements, there's really no way to overload the door in normal operations. It could be a flat-out faulty part, but that should have showed up during pre-delivery testing. The plane is too new to have a fatigue failure and that generally leads to crack-through, not disintegration. Cargo doors are notorious ramp-rash magnets.

Tom.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:21 pm

Quoting golfradio (Reply 5):
AI might not be the brightest bulb on the aviation Christmas tree but I will give them a little more credit. It is not unheard of to have issues on a new type especially with new materials. Just because none of the other airlines have had this problem does not mean it is not possible.

Around here they're the-boy-who-cried-wolf. Just about anything they say will be met with incredulity.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):
We know for a fact that it's *not* CFRP. None of the hinge mechanisms or actuator links are.

Thank you.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:33 pm

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 1):
and these things really don't just "fall apart" on their own.

Exactly. ANA and JAL would not tolerate any such event.

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 12):
I didn't do anything it just fell apart!

   My thoughts exactly.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):
The plane is too new to have a fatigue failure and that generally leads to crack-through, not disintegration. Cargo doors are notorious ramp-rash magnets.

Most likely scenario.

My thought:
CFRP is likely to mask 'ramp rash' that would be obvious with Aluminum. If someone made a mistake and only a little part broke, what is the chance they 'covered their tracks?'

Lightsaber
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:34 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):

We know for a fact that it's *not* CFRP. None of the hinge mechanisms or actuator links are.

What makes me very suspicious of this as a ramp-rash incident is that "disintegration" implies a catastrophic failure, which implies an overload. Thanks to maximum wind requirements, there's really no way to overload the door in normal operations. It could be a flat-out faulty part, but that should have showed up during pre-delivery testing. The plane is too new to have a fatigue failure and that generally leads to crack-through, not disintegration. Cargo doors are notorious ramp-rash magnets.

Thank you for this highly informative post... It certainly is a very intriguing issue.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting jetmech (Reply 11):
I suspect the item in question is the pivoting arm mechanism seen in the following photos.

Thank you. That looks like a 767, no?

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 15):

What makes me very suspicious of this as a ramp-rash incident is that "disintegration" implies a catastrophic failure, which implies an overload.

Does metal even "disintegrate" without a direct blow? Cracking or bending I can see, but turning into a shower of little bits? That strikes me as an odd thing for metal to do.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:33 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
turning into a shower of little bits? That strikes me as an odd thing for metal to do.

Metal's polycrystalline-- it could easily do that. It's just usually heat treated or alloyed in ways to prevent that sort of thing. No one wants brittle steel.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:40 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Does metal even "disintegrate" without a direct blow? Cracking or bending I can see, but turning into a shower of little bits? That strikes me as an odd thing for metal to do.

I wouldn't take their choice of word too literally. I would bet a beer that it actually cracked into two or three pieces.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:21 pm

First of all, this is AI. They have been trying to blame anyone and everyone for their own problems. The likelyhood of this metal part simply "disintergrating" without some type of outside influence (accident, ramp rash, wind overload, etc.) is ZERO.

The pictures in reply # 11 are not a B-787, but they do show how the arms are attached to the cargo door. I say it is not a B-787 because UA just recently took delivery of their first one, and the interior shot and shot of the outside showing the door locking cams shows some wear and dirt, so it may be a B-767 or a B-777. Also that is not a GEnx-2B engine.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:52 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 3):
I'd bet a few bucks that this has more to do with Air India than with Boeing.
Quoting phxa340 (Reply 2):
Pretty sure the airline gets a bad name from Air India and Air India alone.
Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 12):
This sounds like a situation where someone drove a baggage truck into the plane and then said "I didn't do anything it just fell apart!" whilst looking shifty and hoping noone will notice at tear a strip off them
Quoting SSTeve (Reply 16):
Around here they're the-boy-who-cried-wolf. Just about anything they say will be met with incredulity.
Isn't it amazing how you can make such comments without even knowing the full story....? Just because AI has been having bad publcity on various fronts doesn't mean you can jump to such conclusions.....bear in mind that they've been operating planes for well over 60 years now.....

Quoting golfradio (Reply 5):
Just because none of the other airlines have had this problem does not mean it is not possible.

  

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
First of all, this is AI. They have been trying to blame anyone and everyone for their own problems. The likelyhood of this metal part simply "disintergrating" without some type of outside influence (accident, ramp rash, wind overload, etc.) is ZERO.


Wow! You seem to know more about the 787 than Boeing themselves   
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:02 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 24):
Wow! You seem to know more about the 787 than Boeing themselves

No, I do not. But I know a BS story when I see one. Metal parts just do not "disintergrate" without something happening to them, that was my point.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:03 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 4):

Knowing AI and its history with Boeing I wouldn't put sabotage out of the question so they can get a discount of sorts on the 787...   
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:05 pm

This incident should be worth about 2 dozen free 787's in AI's eyes...
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:16 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 25):
No, I do not. But I know a BS story when I see one. Metal parts just do not "disintergrate" without something happening to them, that was my point.

Well, that just reinforces what I said in my earlier point.......you seem to know more than all the experts out there, without even having seen anything at all......that was my point.....I think bias against AI (which is very evident on this forum, thanks to the bad publicity AI has got for itself) has more to do in this case rather than "I know a BS story when I see one"...


And before you respond (I know you won't like my comment above ), I just used your commments to address all the folks on here who seem to attack AI for anything and everything these days.....I think all the wisecrack comments in this thread need to be held back until more information is available.....

And don't get me wrong, I'm not an AI sympathiser (was once upon a time, but recent events have made me too, change my mind).......it's just the "jumping to conclusions" mentality that makes you wonder....
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:26 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 28):
Well, that just reinforces what I said in my earlier point

Have you been to India? Have you done business with any entities in India? I've done business with their government in the aerospace field - it's true, they look for ways to pin it back on you to ask for a discount - definitely not a wisecrack.

There's a lot of truth in what's being said in the above posts.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:31 pm

Quoting aerobalance (Reply 29):
Have you been to India? Have you done business with any entities in India? I've done business with their government in the aerospace field - it's true, they look for ways to pin it back on you to ask for a discount - definitely not a wisecrack.

There's a lot of truth in what's being said in the above posts.

Much more than you, having been born and brought up in Mumbai   

I know very well about the problems of corruption in India.....I was referring to the automatic assumptions that a lot of a.netters are making on here, just because it's AI, without knowing any details of what happened.......I think most of the negative comments in this thread certainly can be called wisecracks.....
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:31 pm

Wow..the choir preaching against AI is in full swing. It so co-ordinated and synchronized it would put a symphony to shame!
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:46 pm

The day India shows the world they are capable of supporting an aerospace product correctly.... the tide of "remarks and conclusions" will turn.

Until then......! You have to live with the reputation well know in the industry.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:53 pm

Well the problem is that the story we get from India is also making assumptions that seem very unlikely. So ensues a backlash.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 28):
it's just the "jumping to conclusions" mentality that makes you wonder....

A valid point, but a few (including "sources" quoted by The Times of India) jumped to the conclusion that this was a failure of a CFRP part unique to the 787, which is not the case.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting xdlx (Reply 32):
The day India shows the world they are capable of supporting an aerospace product correctly.... the tide of "remarks and conclusions" will turn.

Air India's maintenance department is one of the best... There may be all kinds of shenanigans at AI when it comes to financing and management, but I can't remember the last time AI MX came up with issues.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 33):
Well the problem is that the story we get from India is also making assumptions that seem very unlikely. So ensues a backlash.

ToI is a junk paper, a shining example of our paid media, and I only cited it since there was no other links available (other than my own site, which would contravene A.net rules).

The only thing to take seriously is Air India's statement, which was (to remind):

Quote:
VT-AND aircraft is on ground at Delhi due to disintegration of forward actuator arm bearing of forward cargo door. The spares are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday and the aircraft will return to service on Thursday. Boeing is investigating the incident along with DGCA.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:27 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 35):
The only thing to take seriously is Air India's statement, which was (to remind):

Quote:
VT-AND aircraft is on ground at Delhi due to disintegration of forward actuator arm bearing of forward cargo door. The spares are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday and the aircraft will return to service on Thursday. Boeing is investigating the incident along with DGCA.

Ok, since we should try hard to give AI the benefit of the doubt, is there any ambiguity to the use of the word 'disintegration'?

I am an American who works with Indians via the written word very often, and some times the same word means different things.

Could it merely be that the "forward actuator arm bearing of forward cargo door" is no longer integrated with the rest of the airplane, thus dis-integrated?

Dictionary.com gives the definition as "(a) to separate into parts or (b) lose intactness or solidness". Note I added (a) and (b).

Could it be Indians are writing with the intent of (a) whereas non-Indians are perhaps unintentionally reading (b)?
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:31 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
Ok, since we should try hard to give AI the benefit of the doubt, is there any ambiguity to the use of the word 'disintegration'?

I am an American who works with Indians via the written word very often, and some times the same word means different things.

Could it merely be that the "forward actuator arm bearing of forward cargo door" is no longer integrated with the rest of the airplane, thus dis-integrated?

Dictionary.com gives the definition as "(a) to separate into parts or (b) lose intactness or solidness". Note I added (a) and (b).

Could it be Indians are writing with the intent of (a) whereas non-Indians are perhaps unintentionally reading (b)?

I wouldn't know - I did my schooling in the US, so the word means definition (b) to me, and I've never actually heard anybody use the word "disintegrate" before in all the time I've lived in this country... Usually we just say "it broke" 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 37):
I've never actually heard anybody use the word "disintegrate" before in all the time I've lived in this country... Usually we just say "it broke"

LOL, surely the Indians I've met are much more polite than us Americans - we'd say "the ****ing piece of **** broke!"  
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 28):
it's just the "jumping to conclusions" mentality that makes you wonder....

If this were any other airline, I'd still suspect ramp rash as the primary cause absent other data. Spontaneous failure of new metal components in something as rough-and-tumble as a cargo door system without any external cause would be very weird. Certainly not impossible, but very weird.

Tom.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:14 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 24):
Wow! You seem to know more about the 787 than Boeing themselves

I don't see how you could claim that based on my remarks.

The statements from India had sensaitonal words such as "disintegrated." Even if a part failed catastrophically, I can't imagine a professional, well run organization releasing a statement like that. It makes me think there's more to it and they they thought it might be easy to pin the out of service time on the manufacturer rather than taking responsibility for their own mistakes. As I said, it surely could be a problem with the design, but I'm skeptical based on the wording and the well established reputation of the carrier.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:24 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 40):
The statements from India had sensaitonal words such as "disintegrated." Even if a part failed catastrophically, I can't imagine a professional, well run organization releasing a statement like that. It makes me think there's more to it and they they thought it might be easy to pin the out of service time on the manufacturer rather than taking responsibility for their own mistakes. As I said, it surely could be a problem with the design, but I'm skeptical based on the wording and the well established reputation of the carrier.

I wouldn't consider the word "disintegrated" sensational. I would consider it descriptive. If that's what happened, that's what I'd expect any organization to say...

I have no clue what you mean by "well established reputation of the carrier" - anybody who knows the state of maintenance affairs in India knows that AI has one of the better MX departments, and the union is very strong at ensuring high working standards... AI might be mismanaged like crazy, but maintenance issues are handled well.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 39):

The 787 is still a newish aircraft, not a lot have been built. There are plenty of ADs issued in the past where the manufacturer got it wrong in the assembly process. Installing the wrong parts, parts not as designed, or not all the parts required can result in unusual results like this. Without all the parts assembled/installed as designed, the door may appear to operate normally until failure.

Likewise issues with cargo doors can take years to surface, 747s were operating for years before they determined they could self open in flight.

Possibilites are, design error, incorrect material, part manufacturing issue, part assembly issue, part installation issue, incorrect part used, incorrect operating technique, upstream system fault, limit switch/programming fault, and ramp damage. I am sure this is not exhaustive.

I have no idea what the problem is, however I think the odds are it is not ramp rash, AI engineering in my view are not that inept to be able to spot that.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting aeroblogger (Thread starter):
airline gets a bad name because of the composite material trouble (the light material B-787 is made of)," said sources.

I wouldn't say "disintegration" is the most sensationalist word in this press release. The "light material B-787 is made of" is. If the actuator took part of the fuselage when it "disintegrated" then this might have made sense, but it seems Dreamliner's skin is intact.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 36):
I am an American who works with Indians via the written word very often, and some times the same word means different things.

This is very true. It happened so many times that we literally had to rewrite benchmarking analyses we received from India because write-up was full of puff that was completely useless. A ton of form, often lack of substance.

Quoting zeke (Reply 42):
Possibilites are, design error, incorrect material, part manufacturing issue, part assembly issue, part installation issue, incorrect part used, incorrect operating technique, upstream system fault, limit switch/programming fault, and ramp damage. I am sure this is not exhaustive.

I would add lack of carrier's credibility as these statements are not released by AI's maintenance but management, which has its own agenda when it comes to B787.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:23 pm

Whomever the "sources" are quoted in the article, they said that nothing hit the door, just that it failed sometime after opening, so that would rule out "ramp rash".

I would be inclined to rule out a design issue, as well, since if it failed on effectively a brand new 787 just entering revenue service we should have seen it fail already on an NH or JL bird with scores, if not hundreds, of cargo door cycles.

So I'm thinking it's an issue with the part itself and is either manufacturing or installation-related.
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:46 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 28):
you seem to know more than all the experts out there, without even having seen anything at all......that was my point.....

The arm for the cargo door is just an updated version of the cargo door arm Boeing started putting on the KC-135 back in 1955.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 35):
Air India's maintenance department is one of the best...

That may be true, but it wasn't the maintenace departmant that broke the part(s). They are the ones that will have to do the repairs. I do wonder if the broken part(s) will be returned to Boeing for their own analysis?
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:20 pm

If AI files a warranty claim, they will be returned, if not the on site Boeing rep may request or just photograph the units. (and probably already has).
 
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Does metal even "disintegrate" without a direct blow?

The only way I know is rapid formation of ice inside a porous metal or a volume inside the metal. For example, during climb. Oh, one can do it with extreme thermal shock, but that requires a far larger temperature differential than in the atmosphere naturally...

Quoting Revelation (Reply 38):
we'd say "the ****ing piece of **** broke!"

  

Quoting kanban (Reply 46):
If AI files a warranty claim, they will be returned, if not the on site Boeing rep may request or just photograph the units. (and probably already has).

Only if AI wants their money.  


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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:00 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):
A root cause must be found.

Indeed:

Quoting aeroblogger (Thread starter):
Boeing is investigating the incident along with DGCA.

So it seems the key players are in the loop.
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RE: Fwd Actuator Arm Bearing Of VT-AND "disintegrated"

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:49 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):
Only if AI wants their money.

or the replacement parts for free.