YVRLTN
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Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:33 am

IFALPA News has received so far ubsubstantiated reports that Virgin Group Chairman Sir Richard Branson will shortly announce the launch of Virgin Pacific. The Vancouver based airline will initially operate a fleet of 737-800s on Canadian domestic routes with 777s for trans Pacific operations expected to follow in the medium term.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-In...ssociations-IFALPA/277242132313941

Some interesting interpretations and ideas over at another website (not sure if able to post a link without breaking any rules) suggests the 738's are going to be operated by someone else rather than this new Virgin airline directly, which co-incides with Sky Regional currently training 737 pilots and two aircraft on the way with supposedly no work

If that is really the case, I wonder if this is the beginning of AC's Pacific LCC? Would they really tie up with SRB and the Virgin Group? It has been suggested they may wish to partner with someone else.

If not and Sky Regional are indeed involved, could this be diversifying away from AC? Seems a bit like biting the hand that feeds, particularly knowing AC's desire for a transpac LCC in the future and it cant be the best move for future relations at YTZ for example and taking over E175's - which leads be to think if true must be in conjunction with AC.

Another random thought that entered my head, a coincidence VS launched YVR this year from LHR?

Lots of possibilities with lots of possible answers. Thoughts?
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yvrsr
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:53 am

It will be interesting to see what eventually takes place. I personally finid it hard to believe that a new airline based in Vancouver can survive given the incumbents (Air Canada and Westjet). What space will it fill? Is some market not being served sufficiently? The new airline will use 737-800. Doesn't Westjet have these airplanes? How will this new airline be different from Westjet? (Now Westjet is purchasing smaller planes to serve smaller cities in Canada.)
 
yegbey01
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:18 pm

The Canada-Asia Pacific market could use a little competition. The domestic market - well, what can you say here - really needs another player because domestic fares in Canada are outrageously high. And a big brand name could definitely help.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
which co-incides with Sky Regional currently training 737 pilots and two aircraft on the way with supposedly no work

There is a new Canadian carrier that will shortly begin operating 2x 738 aircraft. Aero Bee. The first 738 has been seen in YUL and YYZ. Aero Bee has been set up by Russ Payson, formerly of Skyservice. RP also runs Sky Regional hence the (likely) link of 737 training by Sky Regional. Presumably Aero Bee is a new charter carrier.

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 1):
I personally finid it hard to believe that a new airline based in Vancouver can survive given the incumbents (Air Canada and Westjet).

Agreed.

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 1):
What space will it fill?
Quoting yvrsr (Reply 1):
Is some market not being served sufficiently?

Well, WS is profitable, which suggests there is possible room for another player in the market.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
jfk777
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:43 pm

Evem if SRB could start a domestic Canadian airline the odds of getting routes to Japan, Hong Kong and China are about zero. Its the "Air Canada" Show up there.
 
anstar
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 1):
The new airline will use 737-800. Doesn't Westjet have these airplanes? How will this new airline be different from Westjet? (

Well they may be able to provide better fares and better service. Just because Westjet do something doesnt mean another carier can't come in and do it better.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 2):
The Canada-Asia Pacific market could use a little competition. The domestic market - well, what can you say here - really needs another player because domestic fares in Canada are outrageously high. And a big brand name could definitely help.

Most of the domestic fares are expensive because of taxes but I do agree that another player will make things better for the consumer. The question I have is whether this will be sustainable especially with AC Lite starting next year.

History has shown that 2 (maybe 3) mainline carriers is all that Canada can support.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
Evem if SRB could start a domestic Canadian airline the odds of getting routes to Japan, Hong Kong and China are about zero. Its the "Air Canada" Show up there.

That may be true an present but AC can't in the present time expand further because they have limited wide-bodies to expand to Asia. IF SRB can get 777's faster than AC gets their 787's which start in 2014 then he can penetrate that market, especially in VFR travel.
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yegbey01
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 6):
History has shown that 2 (maybe 3) mainline carriers is all that Canada can support.

To a certain point yes....But remember that this isn't the same Canada from 20 years ago.

When I lived in Edmonton in the 90's and early 2000's, I had so much choice to fly to YYZ - AC/CP, WestJet, Canada 3000, Royal, and summer flights on Air Transat and Sky Service. And planes were full back then. Now you have much larger cities out West that have been supporting expanded service both domestically and internationally.

Is there room for another player - especially on YVR-YYZ, YYC-YYZ, YVR-YUL, YYC-YVR, YEG-YVR, YEG-YYZ, etc.... The answer is yes. Right now, the AC and WS fleets are stretched too thin.

When the global economy finally wakes up (and it will sooner or later), there will be a huge expansion which requires more metal. A new airline could be well positioned for growth.

I think that YYZ is already over congested with competition and that little Porter is stealing a lot of pax - something that is needed on the west coast
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
IFALPA News has received so far ubsubstantiated reports that Virgin Group Chairman Sir Richard Branson will shortly announce the launch of Virgin Pacific. The Vancouver based airline will initially operate a fleet of 737-800s on Canadian domestic routes with 777s for trans Pacific operations expected to follow in the medium term.

Because the old fool hasnt lost enough money in the USA, he wants to lose more in Canada. Sorry the govt will never let AC go down and WS is too well entrenched and has low costs and a loyal following.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
IFALPA News has received so far ubsubstantiated reports that Virgin Group Chairman Sir Richard Branson will shortly announce the launch of Virgin Pacific. The Vancouver based airline will initially operate a fleet of 737-800s on Canadian domestic routes with 777s for trans Pacific operations expected to follow in the medium term.

Why would they call it Virgin Pacific? Geographically, that kind of ties the airline to British Columbia and the Pacific Coast, whereas a mainline carrier will no-doubt have substantial operations on the East Coast as well. Also, the threads on Virgin Blue's rebranding to Virgin Australia indicated that Singapore Airlines owns the rights to using the Virgin name, for airline operations, in the Pacific Rim. If this new airline is indeed named Virgin Pacific, it will have to have Singapore Airline's blessing.
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deltaflyertoo
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:21 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 2):
The domestic market - well, what can you say here - really needs another player because domestic fares in Canada are outrageously high.

Thats the whole point. People forget what a capital intensive industry the airlines are. They have lost money more often than not because of too many airlines on one route driving fares down. I know it sounds harsh, but, flying is not a necessity like clothing and food are. People have to realize flying on the other side of the world in 12 hours while enjoying 2 meals, tones of movies and some kind of comfort can't be had at the same price as a smartphone.

Shouldn't Branson get VX and VS cleaned up first? I personally think this is a bit over the top.
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:30 pm

Quoting zkojq (Reply 9):
If this new airline is indeed named Virgin Pacific, it will have to have Singapore Airline's blessing.

Not quite, it can use the Virgin brand domestically (i.e. Virgin Blue) but not internationally without SQ's agreement (hence PacificBlue and V Australia). That said, I think the battle with SQ has been won after Virgin Australia and that going forward this will be a rubber stamp exercise rather than all out contractual discussions
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YVRLTN
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:56 am

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 1):
What space will it fill? Is some market not being served sufficiently?
Quoting zkojq (Reply 9):
Why would they call it Virgin Pacific? Geographically, that kind of ties the airline to British Columbia and the Pacific Coast

My impression is the domestic flights will eventually be primarily feeders for the Transpac flights and YVR will be a hub, hence the name. AC can fill widebodies no problem on YYZ - YVR and the flights always seem pretty full, but Im not sure on routes like YYC & YEG to YVR - many AC flights seem pretty light on an E190, just from personal observation anyway.

However, cant help but think Jetsgo or C3 unfortunately...

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 6):
IF SRB can get 777's faster than AC gets their 787's which start in 2014 then he can penetrate that market, especially in VFR travel.

Wonder if this is possible? Doubtful for new frames unless lessors have some unallocated slots. 2nd hand is probably the way to go and 200ER's are fine into mainland China. Anyone going to put some up for sale soon?

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 6):

Most of the domestic fares are expensive because of taxes but I do agree that another player will make things better for the consumer.

Fares are extremely high, YVR - YYZ on AC (and WS are usually within a few bucks) is often not much less than LGW on TS, so the question is are the costs of using YYZ and resulting taxes really as much as to operate an (admittedly crammed) A330 across the pond? Judging by the profit WS make and that AC should make I would say no, so there is room to cut fares. Take a YVR-YYC, a 90 min sector, what would stop an airline offering comparable fares as FR or U2 would on a similar sector in Europe?

Sadly, however much I try and convince myself it may be possible, again I keep seeing the ghost of Jetsgo, even with SRB pockets which are not bottomless.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 6):
The question I have is whether this will be sustainable especially with AC Lite starting next year.

Which makes me half wonder if this may be in conjunction with AC, they were looking to start the Transpac LCC in co-operation with someone else. Seems a bit odd to steamroller on with this before the main Europe / Caribbean LCC gets going though.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 3):
There is a new Canadian carrier that will shortly begin operating 2x 738 aircraft. Aero Bee. The first 738 has been seen in YUL and YYZ. Aero Bee has been set up by Russ Payson, formerly of Skyservice. RP also runs Sky Regional hence the (likely) link of 737 training by Sky Regional. Presumably Aero Bee is a new charter carrier.

Thanks for clarifying. Isnt Calin Rovinescu involved in Aero Bee too? Just an interesting link with AC here (if this is indeed the intended work for these birds), thats all. If you have more info what Aero Bee will be doing, would be pleased to hear, its quite possible they will be doing the usual sun routes of course.
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anstar
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:40 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):

Not quite, it can use the Virgin brand domestically (i.e. Virgin Blue) but not internationally without SQ's agreement (hence PacificBlue and V Australia). T

Virgin America operate internationally so it might not be an issue in that part of the world.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:15 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 6):
History has shown that 2 (maybe 3) mainline carriers is all that Canada can support.

True, but history includes some very poorly run airlines (AC, C3, CP, WD). AC continues to be poorly run to this day. WS is profitable annd well-run (and as AC continues to decline) there is no reason why the Cdn market cannot support 3 or 4 well-run carriers.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Virgin Pacific To Launch Ex YVR?

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 7):
When I lived in Edmonton in the 90's and early 2000's, I had so much choice to fly to YYZ - AC/CP, WestJet, Canada 3000, Royal, and summer flights on Air Transat and Sky Service. And planes were full back then.

Since then there has been a survival of the fittest because 3 of those airlines have gone bust since the 90's and AC while losing money with cash needs to turn things around.

Just because planes are full doesn't mean that the bottom line is benefiting.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 7):
When the global economy finally wakes up (and it will sooner or later), there will be a huge expansion which requires more metal. A new airline could be well positioned for growth.

Good point.

However I think the days of airlines relying on as much hi-yield business traffic are basically gone as all the reasons for it are being replaced by technology which costs less. Also for the business travelers left most of them will fly economy and not Business class because companies will come out of this downturn a lot more frugal, leaving airlines with the challenge of being able to make money on less revenue.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 10):
Thats the whole point. People forget what a capital intensive industry the airlines are. They have lost money more often than not because of too many airlines on one route driving fares down. I know it sounds harsh, but, flying is not a necessity like clothing and food are. People have to realize flying on the other side of the world in 12 hours while enjoying 2 meals, tones of movies and some kind of comfort can't be had at the same price as a smartphone.

  

It's an expensive business and the points you made do not even consider the infrastructure needed to make sure planes can take off and land safely and not hit each other in the air. That money has to come from somewhere and today's passengers get a great deal on what flying actually costs.

I actually defend Canada's policy regarding higher taxes on airlines and passengers because the frequent flyers should pay for the infrastructure that they use more than the person who takes one vacation a year.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 12):
Judging by the profit WS make and that AC should make I would say no, so there is room to cut fares.

If I'm a business and you are willing to pay $500 for my product or service but I can make money charging $300 and end up charging $300 then that is bad business and my shareholders will not like it. If AC and WS have full planes then there is no incentive to drop fares and doing so makes them more like a charity than a business.

A non aviation related example is the Leafs suck and the only reason that the ACC is full every home game is because people are willing to pay obscene amounts of money for tickets so there is no incentive for them to drop prices or even improve their product.
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