sq_ek_freak
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Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:20 pm

Details are sketchy but the BBC are breaking a story that a Syrian passenger plane has been forced to land in Turkey after being intercepted by air force jets.

Al Jazeera is reporting that the aircraft involved is an A320 en route from Moscow:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/10/201210101804010971.html

Details to follow, I'm sure.
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Flaps
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:23 pm

Suspected of carrying heavy weapons eh? Imagine that. Good for Turkey, I'm glad to see a country stand up for itself in this region.
 
mauriceb
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:29 pm

Good to see Turkey taking a major leadership role in this ugly war, and i am glad they are getting global support for their responsive actions.

Hope its all oke, but i must admit im surprised to read that Syrian Airways is still active.


Maurice
 
roseflyer
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:45 pm

It will be interesting to see if Syrian Air is carrying arms on passenger flights. I wouldn't be surprised if Turkey makes whatever they find on that plane very public. This could result in Syrian Air running into some problems with various conventions and ICAO regulations. Turkey has the right to force down any airplane suspected of carrying suspect cargo in its air space. Countries like Thailand have forced down airplanes from countries like North Korea before.

Syrian air has already been banned from the European Union. This won't help them getting re-instated.
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PHX787
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 1):
Suspected of carrying heavy weapons eh? Imagine that. Good for Turkey, I'm glad to see a country stand up for itself in this region.

About dang time. This is nuts, the EU and the UN are gonna have a field day with this one.
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cf105arrow
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:59 pm

Not sure whether it is suspected of carrying arms or not but it appears that Turkey has closed its airspace to all civilian flights to and from Syria.
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:09 pm

Wow, this is crazy. I can't imagine the outcome if they really do find any weapons on that flight. Military cargo on a civilian airliner. This will be a major thing. Could this be a turning point in the war?

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TurkishWings
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:21 pm

The A 320 from Moscow (Vnukovo) is in ESB (Ankara) right now and the belly is being unloaded as we speak. They are searching for weapons...

On related news, Turkish registered airplanes are no longer flying through Syrian airspace as it has become unsafe to do so... This should be interesting which so many middle eastern flights are routed over Syria...
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PHX787
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 7):
On related news, Turkish registered airplanes are no longer flying through Syrian airspace as it has become unsafe to do so... This should be interesting which so many middle eastern flights are routed over Syria...

That's interesting. Maybe they're flying south over the Holy Land/Jordan?
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fd122
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:43 pm

Word is that Turkish officials have seized 'suspicious' cargo, possibly missile parts. Will be interesting to see how this develops, if true.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/10/10/243011.html
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:52 pm

Better photo via DPA (German Press Agency)

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-411360-galleryV9-utnv.jpg

Seems to be YK-AKE.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mark Kwiatkowski



Soren   
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faddypainter
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:52 pm

Do things such as the Chicago Convention (to which Syria is a signatory) actually have any legal authority or provision for penalties against states which violate it?
 
RussianJet
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:34 pm

Quoting Faddypainter (Reply 11):
Do things such as the Chicago Convention (to which Syria is a signatory) actually have any legal authority or provision for penalties against states which violate it?

The CC has very little to do with this particular situation, other than effectively saying that Turkey has the right to do what it deems necessary in its own airspace.
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Senchingo
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:56 pm

Smart move to get their own flights out of Syrian airspace right before doing that. Nevertheless i guess this is gonna cause major trouble soon.

If really weapons are found, i hope it'll be the final reason for other states to back up Turkey.
 
sweair
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:01 pm

Acting on intel? Did someone have an inside contact at Moscow?
 
jumpjets
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:05 pm

The BBC is reporting that Military communication devices have been confiscated and the plane and its 35 passengers has been given permission to leave.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:06 pm

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 10):
Seems to be YK-AKE.

Not a good month for Syrian Airlines. Last month YK-AKF had its tail clipped by a helicopter.

Quoting sweair (Reply 14):
Did someone have an inside contact at Moscow?

IMO its more likely someone in the know from the Syrian Intelligence service defected to Turkey and gave away some secrets.
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Senchingo
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:13 pm

German "Spiegel" reports that Turkish secretary of state said "further passenger flights will be forced to land".
On Monday, Turkish military stationed 25 F-16's near Syrian borders.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...flugzeug-zur-landung-a-860627.html

Edit:
AV Herald now covering it:
"Some Turkish media report, without providing details or sources of such information, that no weapons and no ammunition was found, however, a large shipment of communication equipment for military purposes was identified. Other Turkish media report, also without providing details or sources of that information, parts for missiles were found on board of the aircraft."

http://avherald.com/h?article=45737b13&opt=0

[Edited 2012-10-10 15:53:07]
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
This is nuts, the EU and the UN are gonna have a field day with this one.

Then they will do nothing, as usual. Now the question becomes, who were to receive this military equipment in Syria? The government or the rebels? A far as I can see, neither side is one I would support after what has happened to us after helping in Lybia.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:03 pm

I would guess that an agency "whispered" in a Turkish ear that they might find something of interest.   


Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Then they will do nothing, as usual.

Have to agree there, do not see light at the end of the tunnel yet.  
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:44 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Now the question becomes, who were to receive this military equipment in Syria? The government or the rebels?

Seeing that this flight originated from Moscow and Russia strongly backs the Syrian government, I'd say the Syrian government
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SuseJ772
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:45 am

My question is this: if (not saying he/she was, just if) a pilot for Syrian Air were in on this, what would really stop them from just continuing to fly to Syria. Do we really think a Turkish F-16 would shoot down a passenger plane on the suspicion of arms trading? There is no way any military would shoot down a passenger plane in circumstance where they weren't certain there wasn't a WMD (nuclear, biological, etc...) on board.

Not saying I would do it, but it would be interesting to see what happened if the pilot called their bluff.
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SOBHI51
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:57 am

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 20):
If the rebels win all the sects that support the regime will be massacred

Can you give us the source of such information? As far as i know all the different groups of rebels stated that no harm will come to the Alawites as even them are suffering under Assad regime.
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YVRLTN
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:14 am

Update from BBC is the cargo was "military communications devices" which are hardly in the same category as arms IMO, though of course the Turks were not to know but nonetheless its sad that Russia continue to support and thereby prolong the madness.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19905247

[
quote=MauriceB,reply=2] i must admit im surprised to read that Syrian Airways is still active.[/quote] Probably still active for the purpose of carrying out flights like this  
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timpdx
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:55 am

hmm, 35 pax, that is on a 2 class A320, that is like a 25% LF, guess the cargo made up for it?
 
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sturmovik
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:58 am

Quoting suseJ772 (Reply 22):
Not saying I would do it, but it would be interesting to see what happened if the pilot called their bluff.

That's an interesting scenario. Turning that around, perhaps the reason the pilot complied with the interception was because he knew there was nothing illegal on board?
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BMI727
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 25):
Update from BBC is the cargo was "military communications devices" which are hardly in the same category as arms IMO,

I'd say they are. In the US there is the United State Munitions List which governs what can and cannot be exported under ITAR which specifically includes "military electronics." Depending on what exactly it is and who exactly is getting it, I'd say such things could cause problems.
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JA
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:52 am

Considering that the integrity of the Syrian military is critical to Turkey's stability, I would be real careful touching anything Russian. Unless, of course, you want the Russians delivering it themselves.
 
bushman
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:37 am

Here in Moscow we have Syrian Air Il-76 coming to Vnukovo airport several times a month. I haven't heard it has ever been intercepted anywhere. It can be much more interesting target for the ones who are looking for weapons.
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:47 am

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 19):
I would guess that an agency "whispered" in a Turkish ear that they might find something of interest.

No, what sounds like a whisper is actually me screaming from 6,000mi away. LOL. I know there was some evidence that Iran Air may have been shipping arms, munitions, and other military equipment, but only Iraq would have been in a position to halt that and I can't imagine the Iraqis are too keen to get involved in this charlie foxtrot. The Turks are well within their rights and given the mess they've been dragged into, I think it's good for them. Your assertion of "whispers" from -- let's say, western intelligence services -- is almost certainly valid. The Turks would not have gotten acted if they weren't pissed off, so it's clear that they're pretty pissed off.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23):
Update from BBC is the cargo was "military communications devices" which are hardly in the same category as arms IMO

Definitely. Weapons with battlefield applications (not just guns) and munitions have a direct impact on the conflict whether it goes to the government or the rebels. It is still a big deal because associated military equipment, even communication equipment, adds fuel to the fire. They are definitely in separate categories and although it is probably unethical of Russia to equip them with support equipment, it doesn't have the same ramifications as shipping arms. Even though it probably means they are sending guns too, but that's just my best guess.

I wonder if they'll try to route aircraft south over Iran and Iraq then turn west to Syria to avoid Turkish authorities. That is a pretty big detour though, so that in itself is significant.
 
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garpd
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:49 am

OK so they only found communications equipment on this flight. But it does set a precedent. So, how many flights have flown before this one with potential more lethal cargo? The question does beg answering.

Now that Turkey have taken action, Syrian would be stupid to risk carrying any more military cargo.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:57 am

The only mistake the Syrians made was sticking it on a Syrian plane. If they shoved it on a Russian Ilyushin or an Antonov I would have love to seen someone stop the delivery from Russia.

Lets face it this is not going to escelate anything. If having its border town shelled and having a surveillance aircraft shot down didnt force Turkey into action then this certainly wont. Its another big mess where both sides are full of creeps. Innocent civilians caught between Extremists fighters and a twisted Dictator. There will be no good outcome.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:38 am

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 31):
Lets face it this is not going to escelate anything. If having its border town shelled and having a surveillance aircraft shot down didnt force Turkey into action then this certainly wont. Its another big mess where both sides are full of creeps. Innocent civilians caught between Extremists fighters and a twisted Dictator. There will be no good outcome.

Blah blah. NATO is influencing Turkey to act with restraint. This situation is far more complicated than anyone thinks.
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jumpjets
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 32):
This situation is far more complicated than anyone thinks.

Except you oh wise one by the sound of it  
 
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pvjin
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:42 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Then they will do nothing, as usual. Now the question becomes, who were to receive this military equipment in Syria? The government or the rebels? A far as I can see, neither side is one I would support after what has happened to us after helping in Lybia.

What bad happened? Yes some small extremist group attacked your embassy and killed some people, so what? It's no reason not to help also in Syria.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:47 am

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 33):
Except you oh wise one by the sound of it

Yeah he has some inside info from the land of lala that the rest of us are not allowed to know.

It isnt complicated at all, Dictator.. random cluster **** of loyalties from city to city. Turkey wanting to influence, Iran wanting to influence, Russia selling arms.. Islamic Extremists getting involved.. NATO writing strongly worded letters and having tea parties while pretending to care. Nothing we havent seen before and wont see again.

The only people that lose are the random civilians that just want to work and live like normal.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:20 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 6):
Wow, this is crazy. I can't imagine the outcome if they really do find any weapons on that flight. Military cargo on a civilian airliner. This will be a major thing. Could this be a turning point in the war?

You don't think that military cargo doesn't fly on civilian airlines in the US and western Europe every day?
 
GIANCAVIA
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:28 am

Wasn't even anything spectacular. Just some comms equiptment.
 
EL-AL
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:28 am

The hypocrisy is unbelievable. All hell would break loose if Israel would have forced an civilian airliner flying from one country to another to land using fighter jets, with another 200+ thread about the Israeli piracy, but if Turkey does so it's OK.

Come on, as if no one knows what those planes really fly for 18 months now. I want to see Turkey trying to land a Russian cargo jet heading to Syria.
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Eagleboy
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:38 am

Quoting bushman (Reply 28):
Here in Moscow we have Syrian Air Il-76 coming to Vnukovo airport several times a month. I haven't heard it has ever been intercepted anywhere. It can be much more interesting target for the ones who are looking for weapons.
Quoting Giancavia (Reply 31):

The only mistake the Syrians made was sticking it on a Syrian plane. If they shoved it on a Russian Ilyushin or an Antonov I would have love to seen someone stop the delivery from Russia.

A military transport is expected to carry military equipment. Any IL-76 making the trip would be filed as military. Turkey could in theory prevent overflight of Russian aircraft,but technically Russia is a neutral country in this conflict.
This was a civilian airliners suspected of carrying military equipment. This is probably against IATA and/or ICAO regs, also if it was not declared onboard then it is cross border smuggling.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:46 am

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 38):
The hypocrisy is unbelievable. All hell would break loose if Israel would have forced an civilian airliner flying from one country to another to land using fighter jets, with another 200+ thread about the Israeli piracy, but if Turkey does so it's OK.

Israel has already done that - December 12, 1954.

(And worse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Arab_Airlines_Flight_114)

David

[Edited 2012-10-11 04:47:39]

[Edited 2012-10-11 04:48:08] The bracket is a pain in the rear.

[Edited 2012-10-11 04:58:31]Now, it shouldn't be.

[Edited 2012-10-11 04:59:03]
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PanHAM
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:59 am

Of course civilian airliners carry some sort of military goods on a daily basis. As long as the export or import is not prohoibited in the countries concerned and the packing as well as the items are in line with IATA and ICAO rules and regulations, export and import permits are on hand , stamped and certified, that is all OK:

All cargo flights might even carry some ordnance, but then they are military charter and should rather not make tech stops at places like LHR or FRA..

What we have here, with Syria, is a country that is sanctioned by the UN, the EU and the USA. Some of the sanctions prohibit the import of military goods and equipment and that is exactly the case we have here. International law is the basis for the actions of the tiurkish government.

Of course they cannot force the IL76s cargo flights which are likely not flown throught Turkish air space anyhow. Such flights likely go via Iran and Iraq. However, it was quite bold by the Syrians to use a civilian flight.

That window is likely shut now.
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GIANCAVIA
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:59 am

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 39):
A military transport is expected to carry military equipment. Any IL-76 making the trip would be filed as military.

You are in for a surprise if you think Civilian Aircraft do not fly Military equiptment. Especially things such as Communications Equiptment. I doubt any random contracted Russian Cargo Aircraft heading towards Syria would be filed as "military transport". Merely a routine cargo flight.

They might want to turn their heads towards the waves also because the proper stuff will be rolling off of ships.

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 38):
The hypocrisy is unbelievable. All hell would break loose if Israel would have forced an civilian airliner flying from one country to another to land using fighter jets, with another 200+ thread about the Israeli piracy, but if Turkey does so it's OK.

lol the world evolves around Hypocrisy and turning a blind eye when it suits, Just like all the false "outrage" concerning syria. Nobody bats an eyelid about what happens in places like Sudan or Somalia. They are to far out of the way to care. Iraq died off.. Afghanistans withdrawl is on the horizon.. Libya is "Oh so safe" now.. Moving onto Syria .. Then Egypt will be the focus (yet again).. Then some other place. Wherever fits the agenda at that point in time.

The human race is surely amusing and tragic.
 
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jumbojim747
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:28 pm

I cant see a professional pilot captain in charge of an airliner willing to carry weapons on his plane and risk the safety of his plane and passengers
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yowza
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting EL-AL (Reply 38):
The hypocrisy is unbelievable. All hell would break loose if Israel would have forced an civilian airliner flying from one country to another to land using fighter jets, with another 200+ thread about the Israeli piracy, but if Turkey does so it's OK.

Since the thread starter is not a Turk and since Turkey - more than other countries in the region - takes a back seat with a lot of Israeli affairs I fail to see how this is hypocrisy on anyone's part. As for the 200+ threads well you're doing most of the belly aching.  
Quoting EL-AL (Reply 38):
Come on, as if no one knows what those planes really fly for 18 months now. I want to see Turkey trying to land a Russian cargo jet heading to Syria.

Cargo jet I could see, military transport probably not. Besides the Russians are too smart to file that flight plan.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 40):
Israel has already done that - December 12, 1954.

  

YOWza
 
PanHAM
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:14 pm

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 42):
I cant see a professional pilot captain in charge of an airliner willing to carry weapons on his plane and risk the safety of his plane and passengers

Depends on the airline and the country that pilot works in. A dictatorship like syria leaves little choice if youwant to keep your status, your house, your family.
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TK787
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:34 pm

Milliyet, a Turkish newspaper reports; according to the Russian customs officials speaking to the Russian Izvestia newspaper that the plane flew from Klokovo air base, near Tula, to Moscow first. Then picked up the pax in Moscow.
Any other source that can confirm this?
 
Ychocky
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:35 pm

Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 43):
I cant see a professional pilot captain in charge of an airliner willing to carry weapons on his plane and risk the safety of his plane and passengers

If such cargo is cargo is loaded surreptitiously then the captain wouldn't have much of a say in the matter.

I'm sure cargo manifests can be amended with "creative license".
 
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bikerthai
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting garpd (Reply 30):
OK so they only found communications equipment on this flight. But it does set a precedent. So, how many flights have flown before this one with potential more lethal cargo?

You can argue that the communication equipment is actually more lethal than any bomb or missile. Specially if the communication equipment is radio used on a helicopter or fighter jet that fires the missile or drop the bomb.

Without a working radio, ground attach by an aircraft are that much more difficult.

bt
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PanHAM
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RE: Breaking: Syrian Airliner Forced Landing In Turkey

Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting Ychocky (Reply 47):

I'm sure cargo manifests can be amended with "creative license".

well, again, an airline of a dictatorship like Syria does not even need the phantasy smugglers might have when they declare weapons as "agricultural machinery" .

They just need the weight and baance done correctly and in that case they most likely had a ramp agent familiar with these procedures on board, or, like in the good old days, a load master.


If it is true that they loaded the cargo at a Russian airbase, it is obvious that thois flight was tracked by satelite and NATO partner Turkey got the information to have a look at what is in the belly holds.

[Edited 2012-10-11 07:03:17]
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