FlyingFan18
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:16 pm

I was searching Wikipedia which I know isn't the most reliable and came across that it states LaGaudia to Key West starting in December. Is this true? Is it even possible with the runway restrictions? I think a flight to Key West isn't terrible and would do well but I thought its impossible with the restrictions?
 
upsmd11
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:41 pm

Yes, looks like a Saturday flight on a 737-700 (73W) from LGA to EYW. Should be a great way for those New Yorkers to escape the cold during the winter.
 
upsmd11
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:43 pm

Though it looks like there isn't a non-stop back to LGA so when you go home you'll have to connect in ATL.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:49 pm

The flight operates on select Saturdays-only during the Christmas holiday and Spring Break periods.

DL 1873 LGA EYW 10:35a 2:08p 73W
DL 1873 EYW LGA 2:48p 5:39p 73W

Operates 12/22, 12/29, 3/2, 3/9, 3/16, 3/23, 3/30, 4/6
 
catiii
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:07 pm

Can any of our DL friends see where that -700 arrives in LGA from to start the EYW turn? Is it ATL?
 
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enilria
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:08 pm

Quoting upsmd11 (Reply 2):
Though it looks like there isn't a non-stop back to LGA so when you go home you'll have to connect in ATL.

There's no way it could takeoff and make it back.
 
upsmd11
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:16 pm

Yes, now I see the return, not sure how I missed it earlier.
 
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enilria
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:32 pm

Quoting upsmd11 (Reply 6):
Yes, now I see the return, not sure how I missed it earlier.

It can't be non-stop. The runway is 4800 feet long. WN can only make it to MSY.
 
Ih8b6
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:38 pm

It's nonstop, both ways.
Over-moderation sucks
 
catiii
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It can't be non-stop. The runway is 4800 feet long. WN can only make it to MSY.

Maybe they take a weight penalty? Limit the number of pax?
 
iowaman
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:27 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):It can't be non-stop. The runway is 4800 feet long. WN can only make it to MSY.
Maybe they take a weight penalty? Limit the number of pax?

It's loaded on Expedia as well as a non-stop.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
DL 1873 LGA EYW 10:35a 2:08p 73W
DL 1873 EYW LGA 2:48p 5:39p 73W

DL will also have a departure to ATL on a 737 at 2:35pm, so there will be two DL 737's on the ground at once. A check of 12/22 shows EYW-ATL at 3x 737 1x CR7. WN will have a 2:05PM departure to MCO that day as well. Will be a busy hour at EYW for mainline!
 
catiii
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:19 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 10):
It's loaded on Expedia as well as a non-stop.

Right, but with a 4800' runway I'm wondering if they take a weight penalty in order to make it a nonstop. For example, FL limited pax to one bag only (one checked bag) to, I believe, MCO and TPA. DL had a non-rev restriction of one checked bag to ATL. I also believe that there was an operational restriction based on a wet or dry runway.
 
spiritair97
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:36 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 11):

But keep in mind DL has more powerful engines on their -700s, which are better for short runway operations. The maximum takeoff length at MTOW for the 737-700 is around 54-5500 feet, and the plane will not be at MTOW if it is going to LGA.
 
BoeingGuy
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
But keep in mind DL has more powerful engines on their -700s, which are better for short runway operations. The maximum takeoff length at MTOW for the 737-700 is around 54-5500 feet, and the plane will not be at MTOW if it is going to LGA.

I assume they do the full engine run-up before break release at EYW?
 
spiritair97
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:03 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 13):

I believe they do, yes.
 
catiii
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 12):
But keep in mind DL has more powerful engines on their -700s, which are better for short runway operations. The maximum takeoff length at MTOW for the 737-700 is around 54-5500 feet, and the plane will not be at MTOW if it is going to LGA.

Understand, but if DL is imposing one bag restrictions on nonrevs to only go to ATL, what are they going to do to revenue pax going to LGA?

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 13):


I assume they do the full engine run-up before break release at EYW?

Here's a video from an AirTran flight at EYW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1D2O7uk2nw
 
spiritair97
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:07 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):

Good point, didn't notice that. Only one (fun) way to find out, fly on the flight and see! 
 
catiii
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 16):

Good point, didn't notice that. Only one (fun) way to find out, fly on the flight and see!

True, and there are some good deals right now for the flights. $200 o/w on 12/22 in coach.

Edit: Found this on delta.com:

"NOTE: All passengers traveling to or from Key West, Florida are limited to one checked bag. This supersedes all exceptions." https://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/checked/index.jsp
 
N62NA
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):

Here's a video from an AirTran flight at EYW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1D2O...uk2nw

Thanks for posting the link to the video. Looks like a fun ride out.

This new LGA service should be very popular - while the drive down from FLL/MIA to EYW is very scenic it can take quite a while - 4 or 5 hours with traffic - to get there.

I wonder if it would be possible to add just a bit to each end of the EYW runway - maybe 200 or 300 feet on each end?
 
BoeingGuy
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 13):


I assume they do the full engine run-up before break release at EYW?

Here's a video from an AirTran flight at EYW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1D2O...uk2nw

I wonder what V1 speed is there, 50 knots?  

The full engine run up isn't always done at SNA anymore like it used to be. I know AA doesn't do it anymore with their 757s or 738s; AS does it intermittently depending on pilot preference. But that runway is still 900 ft longer than EYW.

Interestingly, it was done on an AR MD-80 departing from AEP when I flew out of there. Nothing like a nice jolt back into your seat.
 
iowaman
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 11):
Right, but with a 4800' runway I'm wondering if they take a weight penalty in order to make it a nonstop. For example, FL limited pax to one bag only (one checked bag) to, I believe, MCO and TPA. DL had a non-rev restriction of one checked bag to ATL. I also believe that there was an operational restriction based on a wet or dry runway.
Quoting catiii (Reply 17):
NOTE: All passengers traveling to or from Key West, Florida are limited to one checked bag. This supersedes all exceptions." https://www.delta.com/traveling_checkin/baggage/checked/index.jsp

Sorry I should of been more clear, I was just stating the service was non-stop. I'm sure there will be times there are more weight penalties than others. IIRC there are serious weight penalties if there is more than a 15 kt crosswind in EYW.
 
rwy04lga
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:07 pm

Buy an 'R', It's spelled LaGuardia. You've been listening to too many New Yorkers pronounce it LaGwahdeea.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
FlyingFan18
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:23 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 21):

As a New Yorker I am appalled I spelled it that way… eww. I’ll blame it on my iPhone though.   

I imagine fares would be out of this world? I wish I could try it!
- Justin

EDIT: I was just quoted a price of 497 a person… personally I think that is nuts.

[Edited 2012-10-11 15:25:44]
 
United1
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 18):
I wonder if it would be possible to add just a bit to each end of the EYW runway - maybe 200 or 300 feet on each end?

I'm surprised they haven't tried tried to work out a deal with NAS Key West over the years...their longest runway is 10K feet. The NAS is still active but its not as busy as it was back in the 80/90's  
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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delta747tlv
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:29 am

This 737 is the only aircraft that can pull this flight off, it is a captains landing and feels something akin to what I believe landing on an aircraft carrier would be.
 
spiritair97
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:33 am

Quoting delta747tlv (Reply 24):
This 737 is the only aircraft that can pull this flight off,

DL has sent the a319 into EYW from ATL, occasionally. Would this be able to do the flight with the same restrictions, as well?
 
toltommy
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:35 am

According to the great circle mapper its 1207nm LGA-EYW, and 1220nm DTW-EYW. If this experiment works, would DL look at adding new markets to EYW ona seasonal basis?
 
PGNCS
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:41 am

Quoting FlyingFan18 (Reply 22):
I was just quoted a price of 497 a person… personally I think that is nuts.

Based on what reasoning? It's a 1200 mile flight to a popular destination that generally requires a connection. It's supply and demand.
 
incitatus
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:44 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It can't be non-stop. The runway is 4800 feet long.

JJ does SDU-AJU 900+ miles daily on A319.

Runway is 4340 ft.
Stop pop up ads
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:48 am

Quoting toltommy (Reply 26):
According to the great circle mapper its 1207nm LGA-EYW, and 1220nm DTW-EYW. If this experiment works, would DL look at adding new markets to EYW ona seasonal basis?

DTW-EYW - no way, the market doesn't really exist

LGA-EYW is being flown to capitalize on the large volume of local O&D seeking warm weather destinations during peak travel periods. There is predominately more ties and wealth from the NYC than there is from the Upper Midwest.
 
VC10er
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:56 am

Just curious, can an EJet like an E170/190 make this trip and the Key West airstrip?
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
spiritair97
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:09 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 30):
Just curious, can an EJet like an E170/190 make this trip and the Key West airstrip?

US (RP) flies E-175s from CLT 2-3x a day on a seasonal basis, yes, they can make the EYW airstrip. As for making the trek to LGA, I'm not so sure. They would need to be near full of fuel and probably close to their limit with baggage, so probably not.

[Edited 2012-10-11 19:09:24]
 
toltommy
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:21 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 29):
DTW-EYW - no way, the market doesn't really exist

Really? I'd say if they can find 7 weeks a year where LGA-EYW is viable once a week, it certainly is from DTW. The Lake Erie Islands position themselves as a northern Key West. Put-In-Bay days are held in Key West every February, and Key West Days are held in Put-In-Bay every June. There's a market.
 
NW747-400
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:35 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 13):
I assume they do the full engine run-up before break release at EYW?

I've never seen a jet airliner not do this in EYW. At EV, we are required to do a full thrust, static, max effort takeoff in EYW every time.

Quoting delta747tlv (Reply 24):
it is a captains landing and feels something akin to what I believe landing on an aircraft carrier would be.

Is this a DL restriction? EV's first officers are permitted to make the landing in EYW at the captain's discretion.
 
catiii
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:43 am

Quoting delta747tlv (Reply 24):

757 could get in and out of there too with a penalty: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/753sec3.pdf
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:11 am

You use a static takeoff out of EYW, which is holding the brakes, stabilizing the engines at 50%, releasing them and advancing to TOGA.

All Boeing static takeoffs are the same, though some engine models the stabilization N1 is 60%.

I flew the 737-700 EYW-ATL with a completely full airplane, full cargo, a cockpit jumpseater, and alternate fuel. We took off no problem with no restrictions. LGA wouldn't be much of a leap.

The A-319 has 24k (ish) engines, so I doubt EYW-LGA would be possible without a restriction. It carries 2 more people as well.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
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ADent
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:57 am

Looks like it will be OK from the charts. Not sure how this plays out in the real world though.

Per ( Information Needed On Delta 737-700's (by ZKNBS Dec 3 2009 in Tech Ops) ) Delta has the 26K thrust engines. Per ( http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/737sec3.pdf , pg139) you can get 140-145K Brake Release Weight at sea level on an ISA+27F (86F) day on 4800 feet runway.

Per the same on pg94 with a 140K BRW you can take a MZFW (121.7K) 737-700 about 950 nm and a 95K plane over 3500 nm. A 1500nm trip (more than the 1050nm EYW-LGA great circle distance) is still good for about 116K pounds, only 5.7K under the MZFW.

Even at ISA+45F (104F) you can take off with 135K, per the charts.
 
thegeek
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 36):

Thanks. I figured as much - it's only the -800 which would struggle.

I'm sure you could do it with a 757 or 767 too, if not an A330.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:50 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 37):
Thanks. I figured as much - it's only the -800 which would struggle.

I'm sure you could do it with a 757 or 767 too, if not an A330.

IDK about widebodies...
What gets measured gets done.
 
WDBRR
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:16 am

I know back in the late 80's, Eastern used to have one daily 727
from MIA-EYW-MIA....all the rest were turboprops.
 
FlyingFan18
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:26 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 27):

It's a high price but of course it's a premium travel time and a monopoly on the route. I saw some seats taken but not sure if the average family can afford such a flight. Anyone else think this would of been better out of JFK?
 
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enilria
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:58 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
It can't be non-stop. The runway is 4800 feet long. WN can only make it to MSY.

Maybe they take a weight penalty? Limit the number of pax?

This will be an operational disaster IMHO. EYW also gets plenty of wind and this operation will be extremely wind sensitive.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 10):
Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Reply 7):It can't be non-stop. The runway is 4800 feet long. WN can only make it to MSY.
Maybe they take a weight penalty? Limit the number of pax?

It's loaded on Expedia as well as a non-stop.

I'm shocked. You wonder if it is a mistake.

Quoting catiii (Reply 11):
Right, but with a 4800' runway I'm wondering if they take a weight penalty

Huge weight penalty. I suspect they won't even be able to fill every seat, much less bags. Anybody know if it is authorized to sell to capacity?

Quoting delta747tlv (Reply 24):
This 737 is the only aircraft that can pull this flight off, it is a captains landing and feels something akin to what I believe landing on an aircraft carrier would be.
Quoting catiii (Reply 11):
DL had a non-rev restriction of one checked bag to ATL. I also believe that there was an operational restriction based on a wet or dry runway.

Exactly. This seems like a problem waiting to happen. I was told by WN that they are only flying EYW-MSY with a 73G because EYW-HOU wasn't possible.

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):
Understand, but if DL is imposing one bag restrictions on nonrevs to only go to ATL, what are they going to do to revenue pax going to LGA?

Everybody must wear a bikini or less...or just body paint at Halloween.  
Quoting VC10er (Reply 30):
Just curious, can an EJet like an E170/190 make this trip and the Key West airstrip?

The regional jets generally have less performance than mainline jets.
 
John
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:26 pm

Those flights out of EYW are typically capped in advance at 100 seats.
 
milesrich
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:44 pm

Quoting FlyingFan18 (Thread starter):
was searching Wikipedia which I know isn't the most reliable and came across that it states LaGaudia to Key West starting in December. Is this true? Is it even possible with the runway restrictions? I think a flight to Key West isn't terrible and would do well but I thought its impossible with the restrictions?

LaGaudia? Miles Rich just shakes his head.

With the increased traffic at EYW, has any thought been given to getting the Navy to allow joint civilian use of NQX, the Key West Naval Air Station that has a 10,000 foot strip?
 
ouboy79
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 41):
I was told by WN that they are only flying EYW-MSY with a 73G because EYW-HOU wasn't possible.

You were told? LOL Try everyone was. You aren't THAT special.  
Quoting enilria (Reply 41):
Everybody must wear a bikini or less...or just body paint at Halloween.

Thanks. Now Spirit is going to have a new dress code. Ugh.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 43):
With the increased traffic at EYW, has any thought been given to getting the Navy to allow joint civilian use of NQX, the Key West Naval Air Station that has a 10,000 foot strip?

It doesn't make much sense that they don't already have a plan in place to do that. Then they could redevelop the land EYW sits on. Of course the cost to upgrade NQX might come into play too.
 
toltommy
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 44):
It doesn't make much sense that they don't already have a plan in place to do that. Then they could redevelop the land EYW sits on. Of course the cost to upgrade NQX might come into play too.

They'd need room on the base for a terminal, parking, etc, and there isn't room available at this time. Once the Castros are gone and Cuba is free, that NAS won't be as important strategically. Then it could be downsized and room made for commercial use. But since they just spent all that money upgrading facilities at EYW, I don't think anybody plans for a move anytime soon.
 
Josh32121
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 15):
Understand, but if DL is imposing one bag restrictions on nonrevs to only go to ATL, what are they going to do to revenue pax going to LGA?

All passengers are limited to a single checked bag into/out of EYW on all DL coded flights (even CR7)--not just non-revenue passengers. It's an exception in the fine print below the matrix of baggage fees.
 
xdlx
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:43 pm

Quoting John (Reply 42):

Exactly...1. the facilites for passengers can not accomodate efficiently anything bigger than B737/A319
2. IIRC FL dept of Tourism Stats show 40% of pax that fly into Kew West drive the return trip to MIA or FLL.
3. It only sellls 100 seats on outbound to accomodate for Fuel load.
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting John (Reply 42):
Those flights out of EYW are typically capped in advance at 100 seats.

That's interesting because flying out of there on the 737 to ATL, I routinely had a butt in every seat on the airplane. That's 26 more than what you quote.

Not weight restricted a single time- even were able to use reduced thrust a few times.
Chicks dig winglets.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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Delta LaGuardia To Key West

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting John (Reply 42):
Those flights out of EYW are typically capped in advance at 100 seats.

Not on Delta. All 124 seats are sellable. Only the EV CR7s has seats blocked.
What gets measured gets done.