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rmoore7734
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'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:53 pm

will have space for up to eight commercial runways though did not say how many gates

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/ar...et-carry-130m-passengers-year.html
 
fcogafa
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:06 pm

And there will be no inquiries, no objectors and no noise complaints.....
 
row44seatk
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:10 pm

Or Enviromental concerns
Somebody has to sit on that seat.
 
kpitrrat
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:49 pm

Jerry Jones is rumored to be a key investor.....
 
BMI727
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 3):
the way america use to run once upon a time

Yep.

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 6):
Jerry Jones is rumored to be a key investor.....

He gets crapped on unfairly a lot, he's actually a pretty good guy except for meddling. If he built the Beijing Airport it's only a matter of time before he heads up to the control tower.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
justinlee
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:07 pm

This plan hasn't been approved. The land purchasing cost will be huge as the plan put it inside Beijing. Actually the fiscal income for Beijing Municipal Government has dropped significantly this year and it's hard to get bank loan to fund such a low yield project. (Yeah, we can communists but bankers are bankers!)

A more practically problem is that, there are way too many airports around Beijing now! There are 6 airports in the 30-km radius centered at Tiananmen Square: PEK, NAY, Xiaotangshan, Xijiao(PLAAF Base), Tongzhou(PLA Army Aviation Base) and Liangxiang(PLANNF Base). If these military airports can't be demolished, Beijing Capital Airport II will meet serious restrictions and the 9 runway plan is impossible.
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting justinlee (Reply 9):
This plan hasn't been approved.

If it ever materializes what a behemoth

 
justinlee
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:17 pm

A possible plan is here if you can read Chinese. It's much smaller, which contains 4 runways and 160 gates. And the stage I is smaller also, may have 2 runways and 1 terminal.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_91fb4b0f0100wi5b.html
 
kpitrrat
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:30 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
He gets crapped on unfairly a lot, he's actually a pretty good guy except for meddling. If he built the Beijing Airport it's only a matter of time before he heads up to the control tower.

Haha Oh I know I just couldn't resist...

As for the airport, looking at the graphic from rmoore that is just rediculous.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:48 pm

One nitpick, DEN has the potential to be even larger (12 runways, I'm not sure how many potential gates).

PEK is too impacted to compete with other asian hubs for growth. So O&D to Beijing will have to go elsewhere. It makes no sense to expand less than double current capacity... So this airport is actually *smaller* than I think Beijing could fill in the next 30 years.

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
And there will be no inquiries, no objectors and no noise complaints.....
Quoting rOw44SeAtK (Reply 2):
Or Enviromental concerns

  

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 3):
the way america use to run once upon a time

We used to build infrastructure. Now we just fight it. Even for airports that used to be 'out there.'

Quoting something (Reply 4):
Move there.

Beijing has particularly bad air pollution. But at least they have infrastructure growth...

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 12):

As for the airport, looking at the graphic from rmoore that is just rediculous.

Why? Beijing has run out of airport capacity (or close to it). The 3-runway PEK airport doesn't have enough room to expand. If one is going to build a new airport, in phases, the final plan should be able to accommodate *at least* 15 years growth.

Lightsaber
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BMI727
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:07 pm

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 12):
Haha Oh I know I just couldn't resist...

I've heard from some people who visited JerryWorld and wanted to hate it but just couldn't.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
We used to build infrastructure. Now we just fight it. Even for airports that used to be 'out there.'

Business and commerce has no problems finding places that don't fight it.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
something
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
Quoting something (Reply 4):
Move there.

Beijing has particularly bad air pollution. But at least they have infrastructure growth...
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
We used to build infrastructure. Now we just fight it. Even for airports that used to be 'out there.'

Business and commerce has no problems finding places that don't fight it.

Why don't you just move there then, if the life quality is so great there? If ''economic growth'' doesn't translate into ''augmented life quality'', but actually into a deteoriation of it, then you are not progessing but regressing. Which seems on par with a lot of today's politics in ''the west''. You live in the west, so you should either be happy or move to China.
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jsnww81
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:23 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
Why? Beijing has run out of airport capacity (or close to it). The 3-runway PEK airport doesn't have enough room to expand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is still space available to build one more closely-spaced parallel runway on PEK's east side. The most recently built runway has stub taxiways that suggest another runway could be added there. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really solve the capacity issue, though, and once it is built, the site would be completely maxed out for expansion.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
We used to build infrastructure. Now we just fight it.

So true. I have a feeling we'll look back on the 1990s as the last great decade for American infrastructure. Projects like the new DEN, the Big Dig in Boston and Phoenix's massive new freeway network - all built during that decade - just aren't happening here anymore.

But not the point of this thread! Kudos to China for continuing to expand her airports. At least there's somewhere that infrastructure junkies can see pictures of dirt flying!
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:37 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
DEN has the potential to be even larger (12 runways

Yes an impressive layout indeed


 
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lightsaber
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 17):
Yes an impressive layout indeed

Very impressive.   I"ve seen another layout with another terminal south of the road.    But that might have just been a concept. Does DEN own that land?
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
Does DEN own that land?

Couldn't say, wish i could answer that
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:58 pm

The Daily Mail is a year behind, this was announced on the 12th October 2011 by Netherlands Airport Consultants:

http://www.naco.nl/english/news/news...cohokbeijingdesigncompetition.html

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 13):
So this airport is actually *smaller* than I think Beijing could fill in the next 30 years.

I would agree with that.

And whilst Terminal 3 is a beautiful design, I don't think they designed sufficient runway/taxiway infrastructure to serve it. Really they could have done with twin parallel runways on each side.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
Does DEN own that land?

It's the second largest airport in the world by area, with 140 square kilometers of land, so I would guess so.


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Viscount724
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:39 pm

According to a recent Aviation Week article, the current plan is to move all SkyTeam carriers to the new airport.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article/...2_p0-498556.xml&p=1&printView=true
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:27 am

that article also says the runways are cut down to 4 (down from the 9)
 
Fiedman
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:33 am

I wonder how it would compair to the proposed Dubai World Central in size.

http://www.dwc.ae/
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incitatus
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 16):
So true. I have a feeling we'll look back on the 1990s as the last great decade for American infrastructure.

The US could be worse - it could be like the UK....
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EK413
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:34 am

More details From the Skyscraper website...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=276618&page=79

That's enormous growth if you ask me... Would more than likely surpass the DXB...

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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:50 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 24):
The US could be worse - it could be like the UK....

To be fair, outside of aviation the UK isn't doing badly. But when it comes to aviation we fall flat on our face.


Dan  
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ATCtower
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:29 am

I was wondering when DEN would get in this thread.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 18):
Very impressive.   I"ve seen another layout with another terminal south of the road.    But that might have just been a concept. Does DEN own that land?

First, yes, they own the land to the South nearly to 28th Ave, East to past Imboden Road in places, (not sure about the Northern or Western limit, though highly undeveloped to the North meaning easy annex).

While their MP does give thought to 12 runways, it will absolutely never come to fruition unless there is another $10b or so 'use it or lose it' laying around because it isnt needed (particularly in a N/S, E/W configuration as the MP plays out). DEN doesnt utilize the layout they have right now, though part of this is due to DEN approach and their saturation not being able to fill the runways. With the new RNAV Stars coming, perhaps feeding approach the rate could go up but I still cant see the traffic count high enough to support more than what the airport has now. Even in CAT III conditions, approach has only run trips twice and neither time was due to volume, it just isnt needed.

As for the OP, meh, Bejing isnt doing it with a white tent roof 

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PHX787
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:56 am

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
And there will be no inquiries, no objectors and no noise complaints.....
Quoting rOw44SeAtK (Reply 2):
Or Enviromental concerns

It's China. Do you ever think they'll listen to anyone?

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 10):
If it ever materializes what a behemoth

Here's a question. PEK is a large airport sure, but would a monster like this actually constitute anything? It seems like it would simply turn into a ghost town in 20 or so years, given the changing demographics of China.


Waste of land, time, resources, and money.
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BMI727
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:59 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
Waste of land, time, resources, and money.

I don't know how their budgeting and construction plans are done, but it could be one of those deals where they have to ask for way more than needed so that hopefully what they actually end up with is enough to get by.

Besides, how many times around the world do we see a pattern of an airport which sees the surrounding land get developed, usually because of said airport? Then, when expansion becomes necessary, the airport has to displace, at great cost, some of that development and the tenants in the surrounding area usually will not take too kindly to either that or increased operations. Seems that the Chinese are smartly trying to short circuit the pattern that leads to slot restrictions, overcrowding, curfews, and obstacles to growth.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
StickShaker
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:22 am

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 28):
Airports and infrastructure are nice to have, but not if the cost means the environment takes it on the chin and there are dramatic long-term effects

Taken from the Naco wewebsite http://www.naco.nl/english/worldwide...ing-new-international-airport.html

...... NACO paid special attention to sustainability when designing the master plan for the new airport. Incorporated into the design are all modes of public transport (including high speed trains, metro and inter-airport trains) which will be processed in a Ground Transportation Center in front of the new terminals. The layout of the runways, taxiways and aprons have been carefully designed to keep taxi distances as short as possible, thereby lessening fuel burn and CO2 emissions. ....

You don't need to cease building vital infrastructure - just build it in a more intelligent fashion. Infrastructure developments of the past that have had an environmental cost probably didn't consider environmental issues in their original plan.


Regards,
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Rara
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:58 am

The only news-worthy item in this thread is this:

Quoting justinlee (Reply 9):
This plan hasn't been approved.

What baffles me about this project is that all we know about it is from sketchy sources - the Daily Mail, some Dutch development agency, blog posts etc. If the Chinese government were already serious about this airport, we'd have some official confirmation and project outline by now. I'm not surprised that the plan hasn't been approved at this moment.

So do you know anything about this alleged construction in Daxing that the Guardian was writing about?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen.../beijing-aviation-hub-mega-airport

Granted this picture could have been taken anywhere in China..
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rmoore7734
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:16 pm

[quote=neutronstar73,reply=24]If you miss America from those times, go ahead and pack up for China. Enjoy cancer, choking on the air you breath, and your daily intake of lead.


If China adopted clean coal power plants like the U.S. then much of the problem could get corrected so i erred in making such a broad statement earlier.

But when they shut down 200 coal fired generators (much of it clean coal plants) in the next 3 to 5 years and decimate what is left of the U.S. economy. That will lead to what they do in certain parts of Mexico where they ration the power out at only certain parts of the day and believe me there is no thriving economy in those places (absolutely 3rd world). Then when more of the jobs leave this country i suppose a good # of Americans may consider moving elsewhere where they can survive to make a living.
http://www.infowars.com/report-more-...ed-generators-slated-for-shutdown/


The technology is there to both preserve the environment and have the benefits of a thriving economy supported by good infrastructure.
 
justinlee
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:42 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 28):
So do you know anything about this alleged construction in Daxing that the Guardian was writing about?

I searched the website for China’s Development and Reform Commission. The so-called pre feasibility report for Beijing Airport II has been handed over on this July. So the plan hasn't been started yet! There should be some constructions near the proposed location for Beijing Airport II with a concept of Airline Hub City. But it's not offically part of the airport structure.
 
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EPA001
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:03 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 28):
some Dutch development agency

NACO (http://www.naco.nl/) is a world leading airport planning company who also handled the current Beijing International Airport among others. They have made frequent presentations (also in the press) after they had won approval of the Chinese Government to go ahead with the further development of the plans. The formal approval by the Chinese Government to actually construct the airport is to my knowlegde expected relatively soon, although you never know when this formal approval will be granted. But all signs are looking green at present as far as I know.

[Edited 2012-10-12 08:06:15]
 
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huaiwei
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 1):
And there will be no inquiries, no objectors and no noise complaints.....
Quoting rOw44SeAtK (Reply 2):
Or Enviromental concerns

Oh yeah. So why don't they just bulldoze everything around the current PEK and expand it?

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 24):
Airports and infrastructure are nice to have, but not if the cost means the environment takes it on the chin and there are dramatic long-term effects. How about rebuilding what you've got instead of the ever-ridiculous need to expand.
Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 24):
If you miss America from those times, go ahead and pack up for China. Enjoy cancer, choking on the air you breath, and your daily intake of lead.

I'm very happy we have environmental regulations and concerns when we build things. If you don't there are plenty of places on the planet for you to "live".

Airports and infrastructure are nice to have, but not if the cost means the environment takes it on the chin and there are dramatic long-term effects. How about rebuilding what you've got instead of the ever-ridiculous need to expand.

So America and the developed world basically caused most of the world's current environmental problems after centuries of abuse, but the current developing world are not allowed to do the same because of the current state of the global environment? This was the primary view of the LDCs when the DCs tried to implement the Tokyo Protocol and subsequent carbon emission regulations and imposed it on the LDCs. It isn't going to work.

Speaking about this new airport, fact is if there is any new airport built, it will be over farmland. Land which has already lost its virgin vegetation. Land which is already being abused by mankind. Turning it into an airport is probably negligible in terms of environmental impact when you consider the fact that farms are not that environmentally friendly either.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 25):
Here's a question. PEK is a large airport sure, but would a monster like this actually constitute anything? It seems like it would simply turn into a ghost town in 20 or so years, given the changing demographics of China.

And so you are assuming that Beijing, a city which is 3,000 years old, has served as a capital city for eight Chinese political entities, and the capital city of all of China for about 650 years would suddenly be able to see its main airport collapse into a ghost town in 20 years just because it is built for 120 million passengers a year?

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 29):
The technology is there to both preserve the environment and have the benefits of a thriving economy supported by good infrastructure.

Excellent points there. Fact is the best way forward is a balance between the two needs. I would think a single giant airport serving PEK is much better than five airports all over the countryside, at least in terms of the environment.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:49 pm

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 29):
ut when they shut down 200 coal fired generators (much of it clean coal plants) in the next 3 to 5 years and decimate what is left of the U.S. economy. That will lead to what they do in certain parts of Mexico where they ration the power out at only certain parts of the day and believe me there is no thriving economy in those places (absolutely 3rd world). Then when more of the jobs leave this country i suppose a good # of Americans may consider moving elsewhere where they can survive to make a living.
http://www.infowars.com/report-more-...ed-generators-slated-for-shutdown/

You're quoting Infowars?
Well, now I understand hwere your ridiculous statements in this thread stem from.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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rmoore7734
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting ushermittwoch (Reply 33):
You're quoting Infowars?
Well, now I understand hwere your ridiculous statements in this thread stem from.

They sourced it from this site http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/21/re...ed-generators-slated-for-shutdown/
 
PHX787
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting huaiwei (Reply 32):
And so you are assuming that Beijing, a city which is 3,000 years old, has served as a capital city for eight Chinese political entities, and the capital city of all of China for about 650 years would suddenly be able to see its main airport collapse into a ghost town in 20 years just because it is built for 120 million passengers a year?

That's a very....odd....way to put it but no, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying that the population of China is beginning to level off because of their baby-boomers dying off.

Beijing is large but isn't as expansive as other large capitals. Other large cities in China are beginning to see extensive airport expansions as well. That capacity is creating a bubble, which is not needed in this economy or even for China.
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airfrnt
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RE: 'Biggest Airport' Set To Open In Beijing In 2017

Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):

Very impressive.   I"ve seen another layout with another terminal south of the road.    But that might have just been a concept. Does DEN own that land?

It was a concept that the new Kim Day floated, but there wasn't much support in the community for it. Day's also been trying to get the city council to agree on retrofitting the entrances to the airport so that the grand hall is inside of the security perimeter instead of outside. When Denver first opened, they took advantage of the natural sunlight, and had a huge amont of plants, trees, and greenery in that space, but 9/11's security requirements have turned it into the sterile white space that it is today. Ms. Day is still pushing the idea of adding east and west terminals off of arms from the main building as cheaper then building out A & C, and eventually D and E, but again that idea doesn't seem to have mass behind it right now.