futurestar68
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 1:26 am

Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:47 pm

Good morning everyone,

I've heard rumors that OS and UA are starting new services from ORD and EWR to VIE, with OS operating the ORD flights and UA the EWR flights, both using B763 aircraft. Has anybody more information about that and is willing to share?  

OS and ORD is like a game, they keep coming back and disappearing. But it's said that with them joining the TATL JV as well as the new interiors, there's a good chance they'll be successful this time.

What do you think? Do the new routes seem promising?
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Will Austrian's JFK flights stay as they are?
 
spiritair97
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:05 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 1):

If UA operates the EWR flights then probably the JFK route will remain as is.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:36 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
If UA operates the EWR flights then probably the JFK route will remain as is.

If my reading of previous talk about Star carriers hitting both EWR and JFK, JFK tends to survive on mostly O&D and unique connections only found there whereas EWR handles O&D plus most of the feeder traffic to onward U.S. connections. So yeah I'd think OS to JFK and UA to EWR would be perfectly doable in NY.
 
neveragain
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
If UA operates the EWR flights then probably the JFK route will remain as is.

What you mean to say is "I think the JFK route will remain as is."
 
spiritair97
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:48 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 4):

Correct. Sorry, I didn't reread that before I submitted it.

Also, doesnt't B6 have a codeshare with Austrian? That should (does) help them at JFK.
 
neveragain
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:57 pm

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 5):
Also, doesnt't B6 have a codeshare with Austrian? That should (does) help them at JFK.

No. See http://www.austrian.com/Info/Partner...arePartners.aspx?sc_lang=en&cc=CA.

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 3):
If my reading of previous talk about Star carriers hitting both EWR and JFK, JFK tends to survive on mostly O&D and unique connections only found there whereas EWR handles O&D plus most of the feeder traffic to onward U.S. connections. So yeah I'd think OS to JFK and UA to EWR would be perfectly doable in NY.

Overlapping service between UA at EWR and Star Alliance partners at JFK is as follows:

LH and SQ to FRA (LH also serves EWR-FRA)

LH to MUC (LH also serves EWR-MUC)

SN to BRU

LX to ZRH and GVA (LX also serves EWR-ZRH)

SK left JFK for EWR long ago.

TP has also served EWR exclusively for awhile.

LO is ending all EWR service next week.

So I'd say it's far from certain.
 
ordpark
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:04 pm

I'd much rather see UA do both markets.....with the 787's coming online...equipment should be available for both to be operated by United....
 
jcwr56
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:12 pm

There's been inquiries from OS about schedule submission for ORD, but nothing officially requested.
 
reifel
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:14 pm

OS is part of the AJV already and I was always wondering what is the reason why - other than the few OS destinations - no one, especially not i.e. DL, flies to VIE.
US carriers fly to a huge amount of midsize airports all over Europe, but VIE is - again with exception of the few OS services - only reachable with a transfer in EU from the US.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 6):

I was thinking that Eastern European connections through VIE might make that work.
 
JU068
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting ordpark (Reply 7):
I'd much rather see UA do both markets.....with the 787's coming online...equipment should be available for both to be operated by United....

Why? Maybe the B 787 is more efficient but Austrian's onboard product is far superior, not to mention that all of their B763s are being refurbished.
 
ordpark
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:27 pm

I would like to see it operated by UA 763's....want to see UA's ORD Intl operation grow.....
 
AA737-823
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:32 pm

Quoting ordpark (Reply 7):
I'd much rather see UA do both markets.....with the 787's coming online...equipment should be available for both to be operated by United....

No, equipment is not available; UA has parked nearly all sCO 767-224's in the past twelve months, and the 787s will bring that lift back into the system.
Also, who on earth would rather fly UA across the pond than OS, LX, or heck even LH? I'm a dedicated UA flyer (CO, really), and even I am not that short-sighted.....
 
codc10
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
Also, who on earth would rather fly UA across the pond than OS, LX, or heck even LH? I'm a dedicated UA flyer (CO, really), and even I am not that short-sighted.....

If I'm on a revenue Y ticket, I'm on UA for E+ and the possibility of using my systemwides... er, GPUs. For paid J, LX is the best option for my money, but when it's all said and done, I want a flat bed and nonstop service if possible. From the New York area, UA delivers that more than LH or OS can.
 
avek00
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:40 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 11):
Austrian's onboard product is far superior

No, it's not, in either cabin.
Live life to the fullest.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting reifel (Reply 9):
no one, especially not i.e. DL, flies to VIE.

Delta tried Vienna on more than one occasion.

Most recently they pulled the plug in 2008.

Also considering the overall lack of non-OS longhaul players at VIE, it seems to be far from a pot of gold for airlines.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:55 pm

I think that since the new *A terminal at VIE is going to attract partner carriers into Vienna.

As for the debate of product quality, OS does not have F, so UA will probably take the prize on that one. OS does not have a premium Y, so UA will take this prize. Both carriers has Y and OS service is typically better than UA.

J is the battle ground. Once OS updates their long haul fleet, they will have a product that competes well with their peers. UA has a good product now, you dont need to wait for fleets to be updated. So now, one must ask: seats aside, who's service is better in J? UA or OS?
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
LOWS
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:05 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Also considering the overall lack of non-OS longhaul players at VIE, it seems to be far from a pot of gold for airlines.

We're a small country. Lots of people also fly from the western part of the country from MUC, as opposed to backtracking to VIE.

Salzburg is only 1hr 20m from MUC by train. Innsbruck is about 2hrs. Vorarlberg (and the 20 people who live there) often use ZRH, since there's frequent rail service there.

Often, it's also cheaper to go INN/SZG/LNZ-FRA instead of through VIE. There is also the problem when a lot of people are flying to the west, and our capital and main airport is on the eastern side of the country.

But if OS can make ORD work, that's fine by me 

I do wish they'd open EWR instead of JFK though.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 14):
If I'm on a revenue Y ticket, I'm on UA for E+ and the possibility of using my systemwides... er, GPUs. For paid J, NEW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX is the best option for my money, but when it's all said and done, I want a flat bed and nonstop service if possible. From the New York area, UA delivers that more than LH or OS can.
Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 17):
UA has a good product now, you dont need to wait for fleets to be updated.

UA has a good hard product, between flat beds and AVOD. And Y+ of course.
But their soft product is severely lacking, as the NEW UA finds ways to make the product worse than either UA or CO had pre-merger. And that's not just complaining or whining; I really do feel that way. My most recent EWR-ZRH flight on a 763 was pretty sad. Y+ was nice, but in the end, it's just a couple inches more legroom on a worn out seat with looping video and surly cabin crew.
They've really gotta get morale under control, because misery spreads from crew to passengers quickly.
 
termbewr
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:47 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 19):
My most recent EWR-ZRH flight on a 763 was pretty sad. Y+ was nice, but in the end, it's just a couple inches more legroom on a worn out seat with looping video and surly cabin crew.
They've really gotta get morale under control, because misery spreads from crew to passengers quickly.


Are the 763's getting the AVOD systems that are on the sCO 757, 764 and 777s? If so, that addresses the issue of the looping video. I must confess though that you are correct about the cabin crew. I have found the flight attendants on my sCO flights to be completely indifferent to the passengers. I understand that being an F/A is a tough job and passengers can be very rude. However, I deal with extremely demanding clients in my line of work that transcend being unreasonable at times. As an employee (and ambassador) for my company, I have no choice but to be courteous and respectful to my clients. Ultimately, they are the people who pay my salary.
 
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Polot
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:53 am

Quoting termbewr (Reply 20):
Are the 763's getting the AVOD systems that are on the sCO 757, 764 and 777s? If so, that addresses the issue of the looping video.

My guess would be that if UA were to start this route it would be with the new 2 class 763s (I don't see much F demand to VIE) which has the same product (in J and Y) as the reconfigured 764s.
 
eastern747
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:07 am

OH Goodie Goodie Goodie,,,,,,,,,,,,,YEA another European carrier to get me to Europe,,,,,,Great news for Chicago!
 
AA737-823
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting termbewr (Reply 20):
I have found the flight attendants on my sCO flights to be completely indifferent to the passengers.

The attitude is NOT limited to one subsidiary or the other; both UA and CO cabin crews seem to be somewhere between indifferent and downright vengeful these days.
NOT ALL of them! I've encountered some GREAT crews, on both UA and CO flights. But, the overall trend is discouraging.
 
VC10er
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:57 am

Yes, almost all international carriers have better service than AA, DL, US and United...in general terms. However after 2.5 million BIS United flights I can only think of one awful FA who I had to report. I always find 8 to 10 I write a raving review of to my friend Jeff. At least half of all CO, UA (now all United) are great caring professionals who are very accommodating. The other half are people who do everything on their list and not a thing more. BUT the secret is...be really nice to them when you first meet them. Go out of your way to say something kind like "thank you, I promise to be your favorite passenger tonight!" or what ever. I promise you that you will get top service and attention. Smiles and always checking if you're ok, "anything else you would like, just let me know, we have extra sundaes if you want another!" And they need it, corp isn't so nice to any of them.

Also United's retrofitted aircraft, 2 or 3 classes look and smell brand new, clean as an operating room and attractive. Also, the new hard products (seats) are very, very good. Not the finest the industry has to offer, but if you're in F or J, it's a great hard product and very comfortable. Also the sUA, 3 class birds have the longest beds, I am tall and I can truly stretch out.

United sucks in Y. They seriously need to do something sweet for the main cabin. Now that everyone is copying Y+ because it's so darn successful ($$$$ and happy pax and good perk for premium pax) but they have to up the game. I say free alcohol in Y+ on ALL international routes. And free Austrian pastry for all!

I love Vienna, and hats off to more service from Austrian and United. (I love Austrian's grass)
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
eastern747
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:03 am

UA has got to bite the bullet and take the bull by the horns. Find your best FA,s and make them inflight supervisors. Put them on flights to make them supervise the f/a's. Do surveys at the end of the flights. If the f/a 's don't do WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR, they get a write up. Three write ups, a suspension. Two suspensions and it's a trip to unemployment. Companies expect you to due what they pay for. If you don't....Bye Bye. The good f/s's having nothing to worry about. The nasty, lazy. unprofessional ones either ship up or ship out. I don't care how much senority they have. If UA doesn't bring their standards up and MAKE their employees do what they are told-they are dead ducks..Wake up UA folks. Your paycheck is not garanteed. Please remember, you good guys and there are many...are being pulled down, and I'm sorry for the effort you, and appreciate that.
 
hnl-jack
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 10:34 pm

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 25):

UA has got to bite the bullet and take the bull by the horns. Find your best FA,s and make them inflight supervisors. Put them on flights to make them supervise the f/a's. Do surveys at the end of the flights. If the f/a 's don't do WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR, they get a write up. Three write ups, a suspension. Two suspensions and it's a trip to unemployment. Companies expect you to due what they pay for. If you don't....Bye Bye. The good f/s's having nothing to worry about. The nasty, lazy. unprofessional ones either ship up or ship out. I don't care how much senority they have. If UA doesn't bring their standards up and MAKE their employees do what they are told-they are dead ducks..Wake up UA folks. Your paycheck is not garanteed. Please remember, you good guys and there are many...are being pulled down, and I'm sorry for the effort you, and appreciate that.

I share your sentiment, but it is unfortunate the union makes such a strategy almost impossible.
 
hereandthere41
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:39 am

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 26):

Unfortunately, many supervisors make horrible flight attendants. There is no prerequisite to have flight attendant experience before you can supervise them. At least this is the case at UA. They are often misinformed and have poor knowledge of the day to day demands and realities of the job. And the BEST flight attendants would never WANT to become part of the management team. As for the union...in many cases, they protect employees who need it. If the management team could be trusted to do right by its employees, unions wouldn't be needed. As long as Wall Street and greedy corporate types demand cost cutting at every turn, the employee will need some type of check and balance..i.e., a union.
 
SJCMSP
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 18):
We're a small country. Lots of people also fly from the western part of the country from MUC, as opposed to backtracking to VIE.

Salzburg is only 1hr 20m from MUC by train. Innsbruck is about 2hrs. Vorarlberg (and the 20 people who live there) often use ZRH, since there's frequent rail service there.

  

That's what I did when I visited Austria. It's a very easy and nice train ride between Munich and Salzburg as well. By comparision, I believe it was about 3hrs by train to Wien Westbahnhof from Salzburg.
 
thegivenone
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:29 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 18):
Vorarlberg (and the 20 people who live there) often use ZRH, since there's frequent rail service there.

As a fellow Austrian, I had to laugh out loud a little when I saw this comment  
 
fun2fly
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:41 pm

We had an a.netter here a few years ago with a link to the VIE website showing "CO had announced EWR>VIE" service and the link was real, but the service was never announced or launched by CO.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:57 pm

Quoting neveragain (Reply 6):
Overlapping service between UA at EWR and Star Alliance partners at JFK is as follows:

LH and SQ to FRA (LH also serves EWR-FRA)

LH to MUC (LH also serves EWR-MUC)

SN to BRU

LX to ZRH and GVA (LX also serves EWR-ZRH)

SK left JFK for EWR long ago.

TP has also served EWR exclusively for awhile.

LO is ending all EWR service next week.

So I'd say it's far from certain.

Add TK / UA at JFK and EWR as well.
 
LOWS
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Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:37 am

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Quoting SJCMSP (Reply 28):
That's what I did when I visited Austria. It's a very easy and nice train ride between Munich and Salzburg as well. By comparision, I believe it was about 3hrs by train to Wien Westbahnhof from Salzburg.

Soon down to 2hrs 15minutes, and in a year or two to the brand new Wien Hbf. Right now you can take the train into Wien West and transfer to a direct bus. I don't know if they will transfer the CityAirportTrain to the new station. But I've heard from a friend who works for the ÖBB that it is a possibility with the new track layout in that area.

And a lot of tourists also use the FRA services to SZG, INN, GRZ, etc. Bypassing VIE altogether and weakening the hub.

Quoting thegivenone (Reply 29):
As a fellow Austrian, I had to laugh out loud a little when I saw this comment  

You know it's true!

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 31):
Add TK / UA at JFK and EWR as well.

But at JFK only the PS service to LAX and SFO, right?
 
codc10
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:27 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 19):
My most recent EWR-ZRH flight on a 763 was pretty sad. Y+ was nice, but in the end, it's just a couple inches more legroom on a worn out seat with looping video and surly cabin crew.

For that reason, I avoid the IPTE 763ERs in Y if I can. With that said, I'll take the extra legroom any day of the week. You can give me fantastic service, a sparkling new cabin, free booze and quality catering, but if my knees are being crushed and I find myself staring at someone's scalp for the better part of 9 hours, I'll be longing for UA and E+.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 24):
clean as an operating room

Ha! I wish... the interiors are far from dirty, but the things people do in aircraft cabins never cease to amaze me. I avoid letting bare skin touch any surface.  
Quoting VC10er (Reply 24):
(I love Austrian's grass)

So THAT'S what you're on? I need to try some!  
 
LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 18):
We're a small country. Lots of people also fly from the western part of the country from MUC, as opposed to backtracking to VIE.

Salzburg is only 1hr 20m from MUC by train. Innsbruck is about 2hrs. Vorarlberg (and the 20 people who live there) often use ZRH, since there's frequent rail service there.

Often, it's also cheaper to go INN/SZG/LNZ-FRA instead of through VIE. There is also the problem when a lot of people are flying to the west, and our capital and main airport is on the eastern side of the country.

Thanks for the input.

Kinda helps explain why Vienna is a bit handicapped as portion of the Austrian home market is served better by other hubs driving down traffic potential and interest by long-haul players.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
futurestar68
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 1:26 am

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:16 pm

I think VIE has a lot of potential, especially with LH owning OS now and OS having joined the TATL JV. VIE has always been a west/east-hub. It also serves a lot of people and will do so even more when going to VIE by train is easier than today. Austrians tend to use their own facilities, and one from Salzburg will choose VIE over MUC if access to the airport is as easy, which will soon be the case. Also, Vienna is HQ to a lot of important organisations and companies, and VIE has a lot of room for expansion which is something other hubs in Europe can only dream of. So I'd say it only takes one or two carriers to add service to VIE as well as OS to expand its hub to attract a lot more traffic. Also, don't forget that VIE already had a lot of longhaul service in the past, DL, ANA, SQ come to my mind. ANA even had a 747 service to Tokyo, if I remember correctly. In my opinion, VIE has to lower fees to get it all started, as of now, VIE is just an unsure market and the high fees there make it not easy for airlines to decide about service to VIE. The fact that some carriers tried VIE (DL) and thought loud about service to VIE (UA, US as well as a bunch of Asian carriers) shows that there IS potential. It just has to be used. My 2 cents...
 
AustrianZRH
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:55 pm

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 18):
Vorarlberg (and the 20 people who live there)

Heeeeey, now I am reeeeeeeeeeeeally annoyed!!!!!!! (Does that mean that 5% of Vlbg are members of a.net? ).
But we can laugh about ourselves  .

Quoting avek00 (Reply 15):
Quoting JU068 (Reply 11):
Austrian's onboard product is far superior

No, it's not, in either cabin.

At the moment, the hard product sucks both in J and Y. However, OS has just started to refurbish all long-haul planes with new J and Y seats (fully flat J, AVOD on all seats, new Y seats with ergonomic headrests) which makes their hard product MUCH better than what they had so far.

In a different forum, a high-profile member reported he got personal confirmation of ORD starting May 2013 by the OS management while attending the J seat unveiling ceremony.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
jcwr56
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Quoting AustrianZRH (Reply 36):
In a different forum, a high-profile member reported he got personal confirmation of ORD starting May 2013 by the OS management while attending the J seat unveiling ceremony.

Update this, they've been shopping around to various ground handlers. Take it for what it's worth.
 
kyrone
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:56 pm

RE: Rumor: New UA/OS Service USA-VIE

Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 37):
Update this, they've been shopping around to various ground handlers. Take it for what it's worth.

I'm surprised that they havent just settled on Swissport again!