bluesky73
Topic Author
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:04 pm

BA to use A380 on short haul routes to start with for training and familiarity.

Check link below if not go to flight global.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...haul-routes-to-train-crews-377714/

Think I need to book a short haul flight for next summer  
 
TC957
Posts: 2160
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:08 pm

I think it's been reported here on a-net already that LHR - MAD twice daily will be the route most likely to get the BA380.
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:11 pm

I'm not surprised. Didn't AF do the exact same thing? CDG-LHR IIRC

Dan
 
bluesky73
Topic Author
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:13 pm

Has it, apologies I did not see that report.

Have to see if the wife wants to go to Madrid next Summer  

Any there any other expected routes for short haul?
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:24 pm

Quoting bluesky73 (Reply 3):
Any there any other expected routes for short haul?

I was hoping it would also do LHR-FRA-LHR.... would be a fun trip to make.
A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
 
APYu
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:36 pm

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 2):
I'm not surprised. Didn't AF do the exact same thing? CDG-LHR IIRC

and even less surprised given BA did the same thing with the 777, operating LHR-CDG for several weeks during service entry
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1627
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:22 am

I hope BA will operate it to AMS too! If LHR is closed down for some reason we tend to see a lot of BA heavies at AMS, so it might be an option to send her to AMS too 
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
migair54
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:24 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:26 am

I´m sure they will fly the A380 to many stations to make some media coverage, Madrid is logical choice they will have easy acces to the T-4 using IB handling for the job, maybe in CDG and FRA getting a long haul parking will be a bit more difficult, but i´m sure they will fly them once or twice. I´m sure we will see the A380 in BCN as well...
 
thijs1984
Posts: 102
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:41 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:31 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 6):
I hope BA will operate it to AMS too! If LHR is closed down for some reason we tend to see a lot of BA heavies at AMS, so it might be an option to send her to AMS too

That would be a nice surprise to see. But i wont count on it yet 
As RTM will be a part of the BA network as from the 9th of December this year, it would be a nice "test" to sent the A380 to a smaller regional airport :p And with a avarage turnaround time of more than 90 minutes as currently planned, there is also enough time to turnaround a A380 for these short flights. /dreammode off :p

I Think CDG or MAD are the most likely first destinations to see the A380
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:01 am

I hope they will also think of some domestic flights too -I don't think GLA or EDI have any A380 visitors so it would be good to see it landing there. I guess MAN folk are a bit blase about the A380 with their daily EK flight so the impact of a BA flight would be less.
 
columba
Posts: 5055
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:17 am

Great, hope we will see it in Germany guess FRA and MUC are likely would hope for Berlin but this seems unlikely.

I would say MAD is a definate as well as CDG and maybe AMS
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
User avatar
Plane Holland
Posts: 459
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 8:27 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:34 am

No way they will send the A380 to AMS. Maybe one time as a stunt but that would be it. The nearest widebody (777) destinations (not the 767) are most likely to get a visit.

[Edited 2012-10-17 03:36:01]
 
KaiTak747
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:08 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:50 am

Great news! My money is on MAD for obvious reasons, but it would be great to see them on domestic routes such as GLA and EDI.

Maybe it will replace 747s on shorter routes, maybe DME? IIRC that is only 4-5 hours. Very unlikely though as the first route would have to be multiple rotations for it to work well for crew training.

[Edited 2012-10-17 03:51:23]
 
brilondon
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:35 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 9):
I hope they will also think of some domestic flights too -I don't think GLA or EDI have any A380 visitors so it would be good to see it landing there. I guess MAN folk are a bit blase about the A380 with their daily EK flight so the impact of a BA flight would be less.

I don't think that they would go to airports that do not have A380 gates. The familiarization flights would be to say CDG, MAD, FRA, and AMS.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
FI642
Posts: 992
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:48 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:39 pm

MAD certainly is on the short-list. I would also think FRA may see it too. Going to be interesting to see how it plays out!
737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
 
by738
Posts: 2459
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 12):
but it would be great to see them on domestic routes such as GLA and EDI.

EDI and GLA are not A380 capable. Not sure the modifications suggested for PIK have been completed.
 
drgmobile
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:24 pm

The most fascinating thing about this article is what it says about Qantas' advice to have pilots be familiar with fly by wire first. Interesting peculiarity of having Boeing crews move to Airbus at the top of the chain.

Also, so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380?
 
RyanairGuru
Posts: 6554
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:29 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 16):
so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380?

That's the way it seems

It isn't just QF BTW, I know EK (at least initially) moved 330/340 pilots over, leaving the 777 pilots on Boeing. I think they know draw from both fleets.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:00 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 12):
but it would be great to see them on domestic routes such as GLA and EDI.

Well you'd get it in.....
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:07 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:17 pm

It's amazing how fast people get to hear of the A380 doing a route. The AF training service from LHR-CDG was packed to the doors.

Since I guess it's all about practising take-offs and landings doing LHR-MAD makes sense.

Practise does make perfect. In the old days those A380s slammed onto the runway, now they tilt gently onto the runway.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:40 pm

Not at all surprising in fact I would be surprised if that wasn't the case!!
Hasn't every A380 operator so far launched their 380 services with shorthaul flights?
 
KaiTak747
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:08 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:37 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):

Not really sure what you mean by that...
 
by738
Posts: 2459
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:34 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 21):

I think he is suggesting it couldnt be turned within current paving and infrastructure to allow it to get off the runway and allow it to ever take off again without running over grass.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:37 pm

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 21):
Not really sure what you mean by that...

GLA is the former RNAS Sanderling, it struggles on occasion with the B77W, they've had one on the grass already. Let's just say it wasn't built with the A380 in mind  
 
KaiTak747
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:08 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:56 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 23):

Got it! That's a shame in that case, not surprising as neither EDI or GLA have ever received much wide body service. Hey, maybe they will be put the A380 on LHR-MAN? There would be no quicker way to build up training and as a bonus for BA they would damage the VS upcoming service 
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:06 pm

DL did the same thing with their 777s when first delivered.......I think they were doing ATL-MCO/TPA, at least but there may have been some others.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
APYu
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:51 am

It won't be put on ridiculously short sectors such as AMS or MAN as the sectors need to be long enough for the cabin crew too to get used to where things are and get their feel for the beast.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3373
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:52 am

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 16):
Also, so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380?

BA crews do not leapfrog. They bid for the aircraft they want to fly, and the courses are allocated on more or less seniority. There is no extra money for big aircraft. There are a lot of senior captains on the A320 who do not like long haul flying.

Whereas the original plan was for A380 nbr 1 to operate MAD flights until nbr 2 was delivered, BA has realised there is publicity value in the A380 and may now send it on other shorthaul flights from LHR .

ARN gate F36 is A380 approved      
 
AirbusA6
Posts: 1502
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:53 am

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 16):
The most fascinating thing about this article is what it says about Qantas' advice to have pilots be familiar with fly by wire first. Interesting peculiarity of having Boeing crews move to Airbus at the top of the chain.

Also, so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380?

Would it be easier for the BA 777 pilots to transfer over to the A380 than the 747 pilots, as it's also a FBW aircraft?

Discounting JQ, the A380 was presumably the first FBW aircraft QF flew, whereas BA had FBW with the Concorde in the 70s!
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
User avatar
SKAirbus
Posts: 1462
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:01 pm

Personally I don't see the point in operating LHR to MAD.

Surely the point of these flights is for staff training; for both cabin crew and flight crew so shouldn't the aircraft be operated on much shorter legs to maximise the number of sectors?

LHR-MAD is quite a long flight as far as European standards are concerned. Using it to say AMS, BRU, CDG, FRA and MUC may be a better option.
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (738), OSL-CPH (320), CPH-LHR (321), LHR-HEL (359), HEL-LHR (359)
 
APYu
Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:27 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
LHR-MAD is quite a long flight as far as European standards are concerned. Using it to say AMS, BRU, CDG, FRA and MUC may be a better option

Its probably the perfect length. Not too long but long enough to do a drinks run, a meal service and a BA shop service. Doing all three gets the cabin crews used to operating in the galleys and on the shorter flights theyd only be able to toss out drinks.

Those fuller services on the short haul runs will provide essential feedback when refining the subsequent long haul service patterns.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 4077
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:34 pm

I like how they are using narrowbody Airbus crew to fly the airplane.

If that happened in the US, basically going around seniority to staff the largest plane ever, I can not imagine what the unions would do! haha
 
drgmobile
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 27):
BA crews do not leapfrog. They bid for the aircraft they want to fly, and the courses are allocated on more or less seniority. There is no extra money for big aircraft. There are a lot of senior captains on the A320 who do not like long haul flying.


This is the way it should be
 
vv701
Posts: 5805
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:02 pm

Quoting APYu (Reply 26):
It won't be put on ridiculously short sectors such as AMS or MAN as the sectors need to be long enough for the cabin crew too to get used to where things are and get their feel for the beast.

There are three aspects of easing a new type into service.

There is the flight crew training and familiarisation requirement where maximising the number of rotations is a need.

There is the cabin crew training and familiarisation requirement where the flights need to be long enough for the required familiarisation to be gained.

Finally there is route proving.

The last totally new long-haul type to enter BA service was the 777. So I looked at the flights operated by BA's first 772 over its first three weeks of operation starting on 22 May 1996.

The rotations it operated were:

11 x LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR (BA123/22)

4 x LHR-CAI-LHR (BA155/54)

3 x LHR-JED-LHR (BA133/32)

2 x LHR-CDG-LHR (BA322)

2 x LHR-RUH-LHR (BA135/34)

The need to route prove was addressed by operating flights to the planned Middle East destinations to be operated by the initial 772A aircraft.

The need to maximise the number of rotations was addressed primarily by focusing on BA123/32, the LHR-DXB-MCT-DXB-LHR which offered a main 3,421 mile flight with a quick out-and-back 217 mile add-on. It was also addressed by the very short LHR-CDG-LHR rotations, where each flight was 216 miles. One of these rotations was slipped in between a long-haul LHR arrival and a long-haul LHR departure (which happened much more frequently in training on the second BA 772 after it was delivered later in 1996).

So in the first 21 days of operation 'ZA operated 33 rotations of which 13 were of little more than 200 miles. It also operated twenty long haul rotations all of which were routes on which the type was to be regularly operated.
This time round, however, I do not think BA has the covenience of a likey long-haul 380 route with a convenient short-haul add-on.
 
bluesky73
Topic Author
Posts: 499
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:09 pm

I also think that LHR-FCO-LHR Is a possible route.

With a A380 doing short haul will they reduce frequency and cancel one flight a day so you have the 380 flying equivalent of 2x767 or A32X?
 
User avatar
BasilFawlty
Posts: 813
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:23 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting APYu (Reply 26):
It won't be put on ridiculously short sectors such as AMS or MAN as the sectors need to be long enough for the cabin crew too to get used to where things are and get their feel for the beast.

Probably, but it would be ideal routes for both flight and cabin crews to do a lot of work in a very short amount of time.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:29 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 25):
DL did the same thing with their 777s when first delivered.......I think they were doing ATL-MCO/TPA, at least but there may have been some others.

I flew several ATL-MCO (and back) flights on that 777 ... massive airplane for that short trip.

It was really funny to see it parked next to a 737 ... like a mother goose + a gosling.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5192
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!

Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:48 pm

Just like AF chose LHR because of the A380 Tech facilities there, just in case, I would see BA using theirs to CDG or FRA rather than MAD for the same reason.
MAD doesn't see any regular A380 service while CDG or FRA are now, of course, used to it. If BA's A380 goes tech in CDG or FRA it wouldn't a problem to fix it ... but it could be in MAD.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos