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BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:04 pm
by bluesky73
BA to use A380 on short haul routes to start with for training and familiarity.
Check link below if not go to flight global.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...haul-routes-to-train-crews-377714/
Think I need to book a short haul flight for next summer
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:08 pm
by TC957
I think it's been reported here on a-net already that
LHR -
MAD twice daily will be the route most likely to get the BA380.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:11 pm
by AAMDanny
I'm not surprised. Didn't
AF do the exact same thing?
CDG-
LHR IIRC
Dan
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:13 pm
by bluesky73
Has it, apologies I did not see that report.
Have to see if the wife wants to go to Madrid next Summer
Any there any other expected routes for short haul?
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:24 pm
by speedbird128
I was hoping it would also do
LHR-
FRA-
LHR.... would be a fun trip to make.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:36 pm
by APYu
Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 2): I'm not surprised. Didn't AF do the exact same thing? CDG-LHR IIRC
|
and even less surprised given
BA did the same thing with the 777, operating
LHR-
CDG for several weeks during service entry
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:22 am
by DALCE
I hope
BA will operate it to
AMS too! If
LHR is closed down for some reason we tend to see a lot of
BA heavies at
AMS, so it might be an option to send her to
AMS too
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:26 am
by migair54
I´m sure they will fly the A380 to many stations to make some media coverage, Madrid is logical choice they will have easy acces to the T-4 using
IB handling for the job, maybe in
CDG and
FRA getting a long haul parking will be a bit more difficult, but i´m sure they will fly them once or twice. I´m sure we will see the A380 in
BCN as well...
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:31 am
by thijs1984
Quoting DALCE (Reply 6): I hope BA will operate it to AMS too! If LHR is closed down for some reason we tend to see a lot of BA heavies at AMS, so it might be an option to send her to AMS too |
That would be a nice surprise to see. But i wont count on it yet
As
RTM will be a part of the
BA network as from the 9th of December this year, it would be a nice "test" to sent the A380 to a smaller regional airport :p And with a avarage turnaround time of more than 90 minutes as currently planned, there is also enough time to turnaround a A380 for these short flights. /dreammode off :p
I Think
CDG or
MAD are the most likely first destinations to see the A380
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:01 am
by jumpjets
I hope they will also think of some domestic flights too -I don't think
GLA or
EDI have any A380 visitors so it would be good to see it landing there. I guess
MAN folk are a bit blase about the A380 with their daily
EK flight so the impact of a
BA flight would be less.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:17 am
by columba
Great, hope we will see it in Germany guess
FRA and
MUC are likely would hope for Berlin but this seems unlikely.
I would say
MAD is a definate as well as
CDG and maybe AMS
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:34 am
by Plane Holland
No way they will send the A380 to
AMS. Maybe one time as a stunt but that would be it. The nearest widebody (777) destinations (not the 767) are most likely to get a visit.
[Edited 2012-10-17 03:36:01]
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:50 am
by KaiTak747
Great news! My money is on
MAD for obvious reasons, but it would be great to see them on domestic routes such as
GLA and
EDI.
Maybe it will replace 747s on shorter routes, maybe
DME? IIRC that is only 4-5 hours. Very unlikely though as the first route would have to be multiple rotations for it to work well for crew training.
[Edited 2012-10-17 03:51:23]
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:35 pm
by brilondon
Quoting jumpjets (Reply 9): I hope they will also think of some domestic flights too -I don't think GLA or EDI have any A380 visitors so it would be good to see it landing there. I guess MAN folk are a bit blase about the A380 with their daily EK flight so the impact of a BA flight would be less. |
I don't think that they would go to airports that do not have A380 gates. The familiarization flights would be to say
CDG,
MAD,
FRA, and
AMS.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:39 pm
by FI642
MAD certainly is on the short-list. I would also think
FRA may see it too. Going to be interesting to see how it plays out!
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:59 pm
by by738
Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 12): but it would be great to see them on domestic routes such as GLA and EDI. |
EDI and
GLA are not A380 capable. Not sure the modifications suggested for
PIK have been completed.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:24 pm
by drgmobile
The most fascinating thing about this article is what it says about Qantas' advice to have pilots be familiar with fly by wire first. Interesting peculiarity of having Boeing crews move to Airbus at the top of the chain.
Also, so some
BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380?
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:29 pm
by RyanairGuru
Quoting drgmobile (Reply 16): so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380? |
That's the way it seems
It isn't just
QF BTW, I know
EK (at least initially) moved 330/340 pilots over, leaving the 777 pilots on Boeing. I think they know draw from both fleets.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:00 pm
by skipness1E
Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 12): but it would be great to see them on domestic routes such as GLA and EDI. |
Well you'd get it in.....
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:17 pm
by babybus
It's amazing how fast people get to hear of the A380 doing a route. The
AF training service from
LHR-
CDG was packed to the doors.
Since I guess it's all about practising take-offs and landings doing
LHR-
MAD makes sense.
Practise does make perfect. In the old days those A380s slammed onto the runway, now they tilt gently onto the runway.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:40 pm
by CX Flyboy
Not at all surprising in fact I would be surprised if that wasn't the case!!
Hasn't every A380 operator so far launched their 380 services with shorthaul flights?
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:37 pm
by KaiTak747
Not really sure what you mean by that...
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:34 pm
by by738
I think he is suggesting it couldnt be turned within current paving and infrastructure to allow it to get off the runway and allow it to ever take off again without running over grass.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:37 pm
by skipness1E
GLA is the former RNAS Sanderling, it struggles on occasion with the B77W, they've had one on the grass already. Let's just say it wasn't built with the A380 in mind
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:56 pm
by KaiTak747
Got it! That's a shame in that case, not surprising as neither
EDI or
GLA have ever received much wide body service. Hey, maybe they will be put the A380 on
LHR-
MAN? There would be no quicker way to build up training and as a bonus for
BA they would damage the
VS upcoming service
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:06 pm
by mayor
DL did the same thing with their 777s when first delivered.......I think they were doing
ATL-
MCO/
TPA, at least but there may have been some others.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:51 am
by APYu
It won't be put on ridiculously short sectors such as
AMS or
MAN as the sectors need to be long enough for the cabin crew too to get used to where things are and get their feel for the beast.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:52 am
by Tristarsteve
Quoting drgmobile (Reply 16): Also, so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380? |
BA crews do not leapfrog. They bid for the aircraft they want to fly, and the courses are allocated on more or less seniority. There is no extra money for big aircraft. There are a lot of senior captains on the A320 who do not like long haul flying.
Whereas the original plan was for A380 nbr 1 to operate
MAD flights until nbr 2 was delivered,
BA has realised there is publicity value in the A380 and may now send it on other shorthaul flights from
LHR .
ARN gate F36 is A380 approved
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:53 am
by AirbusA6
Quoting drgmobile (Reply 16): The most fascinating thing about this article is what it says about Qantas' advice to have pilots be familiar with fly by wire first. Interesting peculiarity of having Boeing crews move to Airbus at the top of the chain.
Also, so some BA A320 crews may leapfrong those on long-haul Boeings in getting into the A380? |
Would it be easier for the
BA 777 pilots to transfer over to the A380 than the 747 pilots, as it's also a FBW aircraft?
Discounting
JQ, the A380 was presumably the first FBW aircraft
QF flew, whereas
BA had FBW with the Concorde in the 70s!
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:01 pm
by SKAirbus
Personally I don't see the point in operating
LHR to
MAD.
Surely the point of these flights is for staff training; for both cabin crew and flight crew so shouldn't the aircraft be operated on much shorter legs to maximise the number of sectors?
LHR-
MAD is quite a long flight as far as European standards are concerned. Using it to say
AMS,
BRU,
CDG,
FRA and
MUC may be a better option.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:27 pm
by APYu
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29): LHR-MAD is quite a long flight as far as European standards are concerned. Using it to say AMS, BRU, CDG, FRA and MUC may be a better option |
Its probably the perfect length. Not too long but long enough to do a drinks run, a meal service and a
BA shop service. Doing all three gets the cabin crews used to operating in the galleys and on the shorter flights theyd only be able to toss out drinks.
Those fuller services on the short haul runs will provide essential feedback when refining the subsequent long haul service patterns.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:34 pm
by jfklganyc
I like how they are using narrowbody Airbus crew to fly the airplane.
If that happened in the US, basically going around seniority to staff the largest plane ever, I can not imagine what the unions would do! haha
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:55 pm
by drgmobile
Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 27): BA crews do not leapfrog. They bid for the aircraft they want to fly, and the courses are allocated on more or less seniority. There is no extra money for big aircraft. There are a lot of senior captains on the A320 who do not like long haul flying.
|
This is the way it should be
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:02 pm
by vv701
Quoting APYu (Reply 26): It won't be put on ridiculously short sectors such as AMS or MAN as the sectors need to be long enough for the cabin crew too to get used to where things are and get their feel for the beast. |
There are three aspects of easing a new type into service.
There is the flight crew training and familiarisation requirement where maximising the number of rotations is a need.
There is the cabin crew training and familiarisation requirement where the flights need to be long enough for the required familiarisation to be gained.
Finally there is route proving.
The last totally new long-haul type to enter
BA service was the 777. So I looked at the flights operated by
BA's first 772 over its first three weeks of operation starting on 22 May 1996.
The rotations it operated were:
11 x
LHR-
DXB-MCT-
DXB-
LHR (BA123/22)
4 x
LHR-
CAI-
LHR (BA155/54)
3 x
LHR-
JED-
LHR (BA133/32)
2 x
LHR-
CDG-
LHR (BA322)
2 x
LHR-
RUH-
LHR (BA135/34)
The need to route prove was addressed by operating flights to the planned Middle East destinations to be operated by the initial 772A aircraft.
The need to maximise the number of rotations was addressed primarily by focusing on BA123/32, the
LHR-
DXB-MCT-
DXB-
LHR which offered a main 3,421 mile flight with a quick out-and-back 217 mile add-on. It was also addressed by the very short
LHR-
CDG-
LHR rotations, where each flight was 216 miles. One of these rotations was slipped in between a long-haul
LHR arrival and a long-haul
LHR departure (which happened much more frequently in training on the second
BA 772 after it was delivered later in 1996).
So in the first 21 days of operation 'ZA operated 33 rotations of which 13 were of little more than 200 miles. It also operated twenty long haul rotations all of which were routes on which the type was to be regularly operated.
This time round, however, I do not think
BA has the covenience of a likey long-haul 380 route with a convenient short-haul add-on.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:09 pm
by bluesky73
I also think that
LHR-
FCO-
LHR Is a possible route.
With a A380 doing short haul will they reduce frequency and cancel one flight a day so you have the 380 flying equivalent of 2x767 or A32X?
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:17 pm
by BasilFawlty
Quoting APYu (Reply 26): It won't be put on ridiculously short sectors such as AMS or MAN as the sectors need to be long enough for the cabin crew too to get used to where things are and get their feel for the beast. |
Probably, but it would be ideal routes for both flight and cabin crews to do a lot of work in a very short amount of time.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:29 pm
by litz
Quoting mayor (Reply 25): DL did the same thing with their 777s when first delivered.......I think they were doing ATL-MCO/TPA, at least but there may have been some others.
|
I flew several
ATL-
MCO (and back) flights on that 777 ... massive airplane for that short trip.
It was really funny to see it parked next to a 737 ... like a mother goose + a gosling.
RE: BA To Use A380 On Short Haul For Training!
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:48 pm
by FlySSC
Just like
AF chose
LHR because of the A380 Tech facilities there, just in case, I would see
BA using theirs to
CDG or
FRA rather than
MAD for the same reason.
MAD doesn't see any regular A380 service while
CDG or
FRA are now, of course, used to it. If
BA's A380 goes tech in
CDG or
FRA it wouldn't a problem to fix it ... but it could be in
MAD.